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Just saw it, and will give the customary "Marvel does it again" post. This is definitely going on my rewatch list. I wouldn't say that Cap 2 isn't a political film, because that stuff is in here and they do attempt to explore it. But I'd say that the big ol' themes and politics of it all step aside to make way for the human drama, the smaller scale, the intimate looks at the men and women inside this outrageous universe. The Big Themes are there to service the characters, not the other way around. It's a bit like the inverse Nolan Batmans, in that sense. (obligatorily: yeah yeah I liked Nolan's Batmans) Cap 2 does explore some questions of morality and ethics and I'm sure there will be many longwinded paragraphs written about that stuff at some point, but TWW is far less interested in having Big Fascist Villain's ideologies make total ironclad sense than it is in showing us how various characters — heroes, villains, minions on both sides of the equation — react in the face of that conflict. In the end, it really is about Steve, and Natasha, and Nick Fury, and Sam, and even Sharon and that random SHIELD I.T. guy that stood up to Crossbones. The film is interested in their moments, not in Sociology 101. And I'm running out of ways to say that the reason Marvel's movies are the best Marvel movies is because of how well they humanize their already-incredibly-human characters If I had to nitpick one thing, it would be that the Winter Soldier himself felt less developed compared to most of the other things going on. I mean, we get the broad strokes, but not much else other than broad strokes. The truth is that I may have built up too much anticipation for him in my own head; Ed Brubaker’s whole arc about Bucky was just so fantastic and nuanced that what we get here just doesn't really hold up. It does bode well for future installments, though. Oh, and I'm not ashamed to admit I cried like a wounded animal through that Peggy scene. 
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Apr 4, 2014 10:19
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The_Rob posted:So gratuitous murder is alright because it's a soldier? You don't see anything kind of wrong with that? Again not to mention that for such a violent film getting a view of the actual consequences is non existent. I mean I guess that's a bigger problem with pg 13 movies in general. In the first mission, Cap and his team were up against gun-toting pirates who were holding an entire shipload of people hostage. They kill some of the pirates and incapacitate others in order to rescue their people. Nick Fury is then ambushed by a squad of HYDRA assassins. He shoots them back in the most absolutist, literal display of self-defense you could imagine. Cap then escapes from a HYDRA ambush in the elevator. He kills no one. The Winter Soldier and HYDRA then waylay Cap, Widow, and Falcon in their car. HYDRA starts unloading machine gun fire into a bus full of civilians, and so Cap uses the bullet ricochet from his shield to kill two of them. (Widow and Falcon, lest we forget, are two completely non-superpowered humans who have no physical advantage over any of the soldiers pursuing them. They therefore shoot back at the HYDRA agents...again, in self defense.) Final sequence: Pierce and HYDRA are literally holding loaded guns at the heads of millions of people and are about to fire. Cap and his team fight their way to hack the three helicarriers. Grand total amount of HYDRA agents actually shown killed by Cap, while these millions of lives are at immediate stake?...I think maybe the three or four mooks that he threw a grenade at. Maybe. Though many other HYDRA agents presumably die when the helicarriers, that they were attempting to commit instant genocide with, crash and explode. And what you're getting from this is that Cap is a cold-blooded murderer sending bad messages to the children. 
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Apr 5, 2014 15:14
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The_Rob posted:Yeah man they made a plot where it's totally alright to murder people in bloodless deaths. That's not very hard to do. My point is if it's necessary to depict killing in such a causal way, and with no consequences. From your perspective the problem with these killings is that there is no problem with these killings, but why does there have to be a problem with these killings? It ultimately just sounds like you don't like the fact that this character kills people in the first place, under a very broad strokes mentality of "all killing is always bad," which is a very absolutist stance that falls apart under any real scrutiny. Because absolutism is dumb. Just so you know, Captain America has always been depicted as being capable of killing his enemies if he absolutely has to, in the comics. So you also can't fall back on the whole "this is a character meant for kids" rationale.
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Apr 5, 2014 16:16
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Mister Chief posted:Is the first one actually worth watching? I've heard mixed things. And, honestly, if you're taking the time to drive out to a movie theater and pay ~  to watch the sequel of an established franchise, it's probably worth your while to spend two hours to kick back and Netflix the first movie that actually establishes the story and characters. The two films are very, very different, but they're not unrelated.(Sorry, the general idea of people starting with the second part of the story instead of the first part is a big ol' pet peeve of mine in all but the rarest cases)
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Apr 6, 2014 08:12
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I think the Falcon's point is to establish that you can trust certain people and that being in this line of work does not mean being the type of person Steve doesn't want to turn into. The movie would be a bit self-defeatingly cynical if literally every single character was some sort of shady "compartmentalizing" spymaster.
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Apr 7, 2014 06:25
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Hand of the King posted:During the emotional Cap and Peggy scene, I thought it was clear she had developed some form of dementia, but my wife said I'm wrong for interpreting it that way. Did I completely misunderstand it?
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Apr 7, 2014 08:21
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I'm more confused about why he's intentionally miswriting the name.
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Apr 12, 2014 22:54
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The most egregious part of the movie was actually when Cap, Widow, and Falcon get captured by Rumlow's team, and not only do the bad guys stow away all three of the most competent and dangerous soldiers on the planet together into one single van, they don't even bother disarming these guys or taking away their gear. Steve still has his shield when Maria Hill busts them out. Natasha has her electric tasers, as we see later in the climax. Sam is still wearing his flight suit while being transported! Good work, bad guys. 
BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Apr 13, 2014 |
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Apr 13, 2014 13:45
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I've recently been made aware of the fact that some people genuinely thought Natasha's "Shall we play a game?" line to Steve was meant to reference Saw instead of Wargames. This makes me sad.
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May 3, 2014 07:25
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