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Yvonmukluk posted:I've been wondering if 'The Winter Soldier' subtitle doesn't just refer to the Winter soldier himself, but also to Cap, who's a Winter Soldier much like the veterans who spoke out in the Winter Soldier investigation-a veteran who feels a need to speak out against the policies of his government. Those hearings were so named as a play on words (Summertime soldiers and Sunshine Patriots) so the idea of transparency is definitely involved. The idea is that a summertime soldier and sunshine patriot will only fight provided the going is relatively easy. They won't stick around when poo poo hits the fan. Enter the Winter Soldier, who refused to desert at Valley Forge despite being absolutely destroyed by a mini ice age, because they were fighting for more than a paycheck. They were fighting for ideals and the hope of living in a nation without tyranny. So, Cap is a Winter Soldier. He doesn't just stick around when there's a clear dichotomy, and we're obviously the "good guys" and they the bad. He's the avatar of the idea of America, rather than what it actually is and represents, and when that America no longer aligns with what it should be or hoped to be, he'll fight that battle, too. That's basically been his struggle from the beginning. The America of today, to him, has morphed into some kind of monster, and he won't stop fighting that monster in the hopes that perhaps one day it'll revert back to its former self; a self, mind you, that probably never actually existed, and never will. Xeremides fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 07:53
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Yvonmukluk posted:Hey, the Civil War-era Republicans believed in that sought of thing. And then the Republicans became the Democrats, and the Southern Democrats took over the Republican party.
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Apr 3, 2014 12:16
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Reveilled posted:I doubt Captain America needs to catch up on things that happened in 1937. He was there. I don't know that your every day Westerner had a grasp of what went on there until after the war.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:10
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AtraMorS posted:I'm getting pissy because you (well, maybe not as much you as the couple of posters before) appear to think y'all are in some kind of position to offer advice or judgment about this. Seriously, people get up and leave the theater when they do for all kinds of reasons--situational, personal, excremental, what-the-gently caress-ever. Why second-guess them? And just because your experiences don't match up with mine doesn't mean I was in the, "One theater where blah blah blah." It means the crowd at my viewing acted differently than the crowd at yours for reasons we'll probably never know, and that's pretty much it. Holy poo poo, no one cares.
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Apr 6, 2014 12:03
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First Bass posted:It's a little foggy who SHIELD answers too. There's the World Security Council, and numerous bases worldwide (the Hub is in Africa, and the Helicarrier seems to go wherever it drat well pleases), but the Triskellion is in D.C., one of the council members was not at all pleased there was a boat in his waters, the Secretary seems like he's a member of or answerable to the U.S. government (he also mentions that the halting INSIGHT would require a Congressional hearing), as does the rest of SHIELD when Black Widow is being a smart-rear end (I think the scene was trying to evoke IM2, but it just made me roll my eyes) before a Congressional panel. Then there's the name, "Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement, Logistics Division". Whose homeland? Division of what? It's basically just another international agency where various nations are "working together", but because the US is funding 99% of their programs, everyone else just falls in line or waves their finger vigorously while doing absolutely nothing to stop them.
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Apr 12, 2014 08:12
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Iron Man 1 opens with a bunch of US Marines being shot to death in Afghanistan. Zero Marines in the opening scene.
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Apr 13, 2014 15:29
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Fulchrum posted:
Look at their uniforms.
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Apr 14, 2014 00:53
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XboxPants posted:Could you maybe just tell us, for those of us who don't have a copy of the film handy and maybe don't recognize every branch of the US military on sight? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YvvFntN-Ec They're Air Force. Fulchrum posted:Watching that scene now, those all look pretty compellingly like US marines to me. Totally. Marines typically wear sky utilities for close combat operations against aerial ground targets.
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Apr 14, 2014 09:20
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Dan Didio posted:Thank god someone was here to clear up that those guys weren't Marines, but Air Force. I mean, if people are going to write 14 page diatribes, it probably helps their cause to get the details right. It's a pretty glaring error to state Marines were all over the place and Rhodes, an Air Force Colonel, was just hanging out with them when really Stark was being protected and transported by Airmen.
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Apr 14, 2014 09:51
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Dan Didio posted:This is the post you're talking about? Are we pretending that post isn't remotely related to the myriad of other posts on the same subject from the same poster, or are you arguing just to argue? There was a glaring error, I corrected it, and it's over. Bingo bango, case closed.
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Apr 14, 2014 10:27
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Chocolate Teapot posted:You're implying that getting such a minor detail ("glaring error" for gently caress's sake) wrong undermines his entire argument. I wasn't implying anything, but along the lines of your post, I'll say this. His points are based on minutiae, or details that most people would overlook in favor of explosions and in your face action. However, he watched a film that's a borderline love letter to the Air Force and came away from it thinking, "They sure did kill a lot of Marines". If he can make that kind of mistake, it makes me question the veracity of his other claims. Granted, he's essentially pulling poo poo from the ether to conjure an entirely different narrative based on what he wants to see, but I think his posts are as much an exercise in debate, in which he's trying to draw you to his way of thinking, as it is verbal masturbation. I mean, its 126 minutes of Air Force uniforms, Air Force personnel, Rhodes as a high-ranking officer in the Air Force, F-22s, and a bunch of other Air Force poo poo, where they aren't even trying to be coy about it, and yet this somehow eluded everyone? Really? I mean, I can almost understand not being able to tell the difference between coyote tan and concrete, but the film is pretty blatant about which branch is center stage. Hell, I'm not sure that Marines have even been shown in the MCU so far. That said, I made a single post stating there weren't any Marines in that opening scene. I was content to leave it at that, but I guess a couple of you thought everyone wears the same uniform. Whatever. I'm over it.
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Apr 14, 2014 13:31
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Fulchrum posted:Yes, because in contrast to marines getting killed, a bunch of Airmen being ambushed and massacred by Middle Eastern Terrorists is just dandy with a post Iraq quagmire audience. You'd think Airmen being killed would be a lot more jarring or shocking as you never hear about that happening, creating more of an emotional impact than hearing Marines or soldiers have once again died during combat operations, ultimately aiding his narrative. Instead, the details escape him and there are people here trying to state it isn't an important distinction. Do I have to reference the Joker and regurgitate the "everyone loses their minds when something doesn't go according to plan, even if the plan is horrific" in order to help you understand or what? Xeremides fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 14:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Xeremides is probably right about the uniforms, but that is still bullshit, because the discussion was about how the Marvel Films exploit war on terror imagery. The type of uniform worn by the troops in humvees being slaughtered by insurgents is not hugely relevant. It isn't relevant to your diatribe, I guess, but it's still relevant to the actual film. There's a pretty huge difference between infantrymen, which is what the Marines would have been were they actually in that scene unless they were trying to make a statement about how badass pogues are, only to have them get mowed down, and the keyboard warriors actually in the scene who decided taking pictures and smoking and joking was more important than actually scanning their sectors and providing security. The mindset between the two branches, let alone the two jobs are completely different. Someone mentioned 50 Airmen died throughout the course of OIF. That's amazing, considering there were what? Over 5000 dead? I mean, if you found out a cop had been shot in the line of duty, you probably wouldn't care. If a janitor got shot in the line of duty, you might ask, "What? Where? How?". Would Saving Private Ryan be different if the movie was about medics and a random corpsman trying to save Ryan? To me, the job type and branch is absolutely relevant because they describe the types of things expected of you. No one tells the janitor when he signs his contract that there's a pretty good chance he could get blasted in the chest during the course of his career, because it isn't his job to be in that kind of situation. Like I said before, I was just correcting what was to me a pretty silly error. I'm not exactly arguing that you should have known they aren't Marines because they aren't wearing a full combat load or proper PPE and you should feel bad for not noticing that kind of thing. I corrected an error that really shouldn't really have been made considering the only thing the Air Force didn't do during that movie was have Rhodes look directly into the camera and tell the audience to enlist immediately because "the Air Force wants YOU!". It's 126 minutes of the AF rubbing your nose in advertising. I can understand calling them soldiers since their cammies were also perfect for blending in with absolutely nothing, but you went for the branch that probably has the least in common with the AF. But sure, let's talk about those bastards at Marvel exploiting war imagery, and then also completely marginalize the armed forces because they all look the same and serve the same function, anyway. Marine? Airman? Soldier? Who cares? Xeremides fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Apr 14, 2014 |
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Apr 14, 2014 19:08
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