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Saw the film today with a friend, absolutely worth it. Spoiler stuff (seriously do not read if you haven't already seen it): Yeah, thats Batroc the Leaper at the start of the film, his name - just the Batroc part - brought up when the pirates are IDed. He's a french (though in the film, Algerian born) merc who's a skilled martial artist, with a particular focus on his legs, hence in the film he does a lot of kicks as well. The film had way more twists than I really expected there to be, but in a way, it makes sense. Iron Man 3 relied upon setting up a big bad in its trailers and then pulling the rug out from under the viewers regarding said villain, so it seems like the team behind this film went in quite aware that people would be suspicious. So they did the build up regarding the Winter Soldier and the 'twist' of his identity, to cover up the whole platitude of sudden turns the film has going for it. Fuckin' Arnim Zola turned out to be more dangerous than the Red Skull ever was. Hot drat.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:48
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Moola posted:Soooooo one thing I couldn't stop thinking about after the film. Apparently, the upcoming run of episodes is gonna be dealing with the aftermath of the film. Guess something like the team becoming their own individual force, or potentially Fury's remaining asset as he hangs out in Europe. Either way, Agent 13 is gonna appear.
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Mar 26, 2014 23:58
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Oasx posted:I really enjoyed it, it was nice to see Captain America really fight like in the comics. I liked the reference to Doctor Strange, it makes sense given that they are going to make a movie about him Honestly, for a while I was confused by the reference, since in theory at this point he would be nothing more than a mere surgeon. But than I realised, even if that were the case, that A) the bad guys know their mystic energy sources actually pretty well, and B) Have gone all pseudo-omniscient due to the digital era. They could easily realise there's something off about him and want to nip things in the bud.
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Mar 27, 2014 00:38
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chazzared posted:Just got back from seeing this. Easily my favourite Marvel movie so far, as all the Phase 2 movies seem to be. Falcon was surprisingly awesome. Pretty much, where Iron Man 3 is actually fairly low key and limited to Tony's world, and Thor the Dark World delved in universe threatening plots that the average man would never know, the Winter Soldier really does change the status quo of Earth for the rest of the films from here on out. Honestly, the whole thing with HYDRA is a pretty drat well executed retcon if I ever saw one, taking the fate of a character that pretty much everyone wrote off and turning it into something massive. It really does change the light in which you have to see the earlier films, especially Iron Man 2. How much was SHIELD genuinely trying to do the job Howard founded it for, and how much was it HYDRA prepping for their ultimate scheme? The efforts to go after the Hulk and the Iron Man suit may have been efforts to remove anomalous pieces outside of their control that could unravel their entire plan. As for the staff, its got some degree of related control/energies, but there's nothing that actually says they're strictly tied together or one and the same. Even if they were, HYDRA understands the cube's energies enough to likely reignite tech based on it.
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Mar 27, 2014 01:35
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FiftySeven posted:I saw it at a double bill with the first one, which was something that I found a bit confusing, rather than showing the Avengers but when it turns out that Hydra are behind SHIELD, the choice made perfect sense. I honestly didnt see that twist coming, and when Zola's face appeared on the screen it all made sense and I think that element of the film really works as the second part in Captain America's story.[/spoiler] I realise now that Zola's face on the big screen is in fact a reference to his usual villain appearance, complete with camera over his head. As to HYDRA's relation with SHIELD though, its more that it infected the idea that Howard and Peggy came up with all those years ago, because - as the movie makes a theme of - they placed their trust in the wrong person. Zola used his new found influence to indoctrinate a new generation of HYDRA to his cause and gain resources, whilst supposedly helping the good guys build a better world (how else did he get time out from talking with Philips to pick up Bucky?). Definitely right though in how it was nice to see that the group in general was kept around. Before that scene, I kept figuring it was gonna be something like out of the comics where it was the Russians, or that it'd be some new villain for the film, again like with Iron Man 3 or Thor the Dark World. But nope, they messed with expectations and drat well delivered. Fuckin' Arnim Zola.
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Mar 27, 2014 01:56
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Well I thought it was a big bunch of bullshit. It's just politically infantile, essentially arguing that we just need the right kind of black ops authoritarian military organisation running our lives. SHIELD vs HYDRA is just two brands of fascism competing against each other. The only reason HYDRA are the villains is because they're literal Nazis as opposed to just the 'regular' fascism of SHIELD. ...Do you remember the parts where Cap chews Fury out over this, especially when Fury suggests 'salvaging' what he can of the organisation, and Steve says that, no, he won't. Part of what Black Widow does at the end is expose SHIELD's secrets (including her own), both to expose HYDRA's wrongdoings, but to neuter SHIELD's functionality as an organisation
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Mar 27, 2014 21:37
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Yeah, it was basically to set up the contrast of it all. Because if even a man worthy of a Nobel Prize can turn out to be the bad guy, then who the hell can you trust?
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Mar 30, 2014 11:14
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Bown posted:So wait, the villain's plot is to launch Helicarriers that have software which indicates which members of the population are most likely to be trouble in the future and then kill just those people, millions at a time, all at once, by firing bullets at them from the sky? From what I saw of that, I thought that was more like, the initial stage of things. Ie, kill them, turn to the world and say 'yeah, we just did that', and watch them bow in submission exactly how do you compete with 'killed twenty million people at once'. Mind you, that would completely overturn the whole 'people will give up their freedoms for their security', but one could argue they only wanted to go with that up until the point it got them into a position of ultimate power - like three helicarriers capable of killing anyone on the planet evobatman posted:What I disliked with the movies politics is that Cap brings up several issues that are real problems in the world today with freedom/security/surveillance/NSA/detention without sentence etc. The movie is... admittedly mixed on its execution of this, which some would say is a failing, others a strength. After all, Fury tries to justify it, and his general distrust of people, based on 'taking the world as it is' and all that. Cap argues back however that its somewhat self defeating, and certainly not the kind of method that people purporting to be the good guys should use, hence he shoots down the notion of Fury 'salvaging' SHIELD. At the same time, yeah, it does saddle off a lot of the ultimate responsibility behind some of SHIELD's dirtier dealings to HYDRA (including some I brought up by inference earlier), which some could argue detracts from the value of how these sorts of things are applied in the real world, often in terrible ways. Personally? I like to see it as a sort of comparison, though admittedly mostly because I find it amusing. 'If you think this kind of thing is a good idea, then you are the same as evil Nazi scientists.'
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Mar 30, 2014 23:05
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There's a mild reference to the Winter Soldier's Russian origins in the comics when Natasha tells Cap that she got some info regarding Bucky's possible whereabouts out of Kiev, which, as recent world events should have likely taught anyone by this point, was once part of the Soviet Union and all.
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Apr 2, 2014 10:27
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Sir Nose posted:My 12 year old has decided that she's now interested in superhero movies and wants to see Cap 2. She hasn't seen any of the MCU movies yet. We'll work our way through them all eventually, but which ones should I show her now, to bring her up to speed for Cap 2? Obviously Cap 1, I'm guessing she doesn't need to see Incredible Hulk at this point... What about Avengers or the Iron Man films? Etc. Iron Man 2 will help you appreciate certain developments in the plot, though they're more minor points.
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Apr 3, 2014 21:07
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More to the point, a number of the knockouts Cap gets on some enemies are kinda left vague as to whether they're kills, or just, well, knockouts. After all, he deals in mostly hand to hand combat and his mighty shield, and its clear that some people survive his fights, given Batroc is interrogated and Rumlow comes back to be a continued nuisance after the elevator fight. Note that when he manages to incapacitate one assailant by stabbing their hand to the wall, he leaves it at that and just moves on. Other characters are of course far less subtle about it, as Black Widow a few moments later goes in guns akimbo.
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Apr 5, 2014 15:06
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Back on how this film compares to its predecessor a bit, I realise that they do share a broader theme which I suppose sorta ties into Cap's main motif from the comics (since the 50s anyway once that was retconned into a patriotic psycho), but I'd almost say is more akin to what Superman has been in the modern era until the New 52 reboot. Namely, what does a good man do. I realise it because of how Chris Evans' Cap compares to the stars of the other films in that, at the start of his film at least, he's mostly reached emotional maturity already. He's not like Tony, who needed a loud and very painful awakening to the fact that he was blissfully ignorant of the harm he was doing to others - indirectly or otherwise. He's not like Bruce where emotional instability has to be overcome both for his sake and for others. And he's not like Thor who, whilst good at heart, was blinded by his ego and pride that he might make things worse rather than better. He's just a guy who knows what he believes in, and has largely come to terms with his life, even if he dislikes the lot he's been given. And by that same morality, when he sees a problem, he feels he has at least some obligation to do something, even if its technically nothing to do with him, or so beyond his reach that he's actively denied from helping. And I don't think that's necessarily any less realistic than the other three. Because he has to deal with how the opportunities to seemingly do good don't necessarily mesh with either what he hoped for or what he was promised he would be doing, which is a fair enough issue. But when the task seems clear enough and his head's in the game, he gets to it and does what he has to. I realise they aren't of course immediately equal, given Cap is a comic book superhero and all, but in a broad sense he's not that different from a firefighter who simply decided to join because they thought they could and should help people. Its just in Cap's case, the fire is supervillains and alien invasions.
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Apr 6, 2014 13:25
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Spacebump posted:I hope the next movie with Tony Stark has a brief one liner excuse why he didn't show up to help Cap. Even something like "I was vacationing on the other side of the world and everything was over before I got there" There's another one that's easy enough. "I kinda blew up all my suits. What the heck was I meant to help you WITH?"
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Apr 6, 2014 21:50
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...I don't suppose the opinion that one might like all the films in the MCU for one reason or another is valid? Though for Winter Soldier, its definitely eased its way into my top five, though I think I'm gonna keep that more a vague group that a definite, ordered hierachy. I mean, I enjoy Thor 2 a lot for all the background world building, larger than life spectacle and adventure, and honestly having a different perspective on the universe compared to the more Earth based settings. The Avengers I love as an unrelenting celebration of how awesome superheroes are and should be, letting characters of such different types come together and interact, before kicking rear end and taking names. The First Avenger I love because its hero doesn't need to be a jerk and broken into being a good man, but instead through his honest virtues gets his chance to change the world. Of course that's glossing over a lot of things in general. With Winter Soldier I love the action, the character interaction, and a bunch of the intrigue. Its also the film with the largest amount of consequences for the MCU going forward - at least in the short term. Iron Man 3 was honestly quite low key in what it affected, whilst Thor 2 was so massive that Earth was something of an overall footnote in the conflict. But TWS has changed the status quo on its characters, the groups they associate with and fight against, and the wider setting. It feels... self contained, but enough has changed that you know it can be picked up on later.
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Apr 7, 2014 23:22
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Fulchrum posted:Eh, being that arrogant would make it in character, if not very smart. "I am so sure that I can kill you along with me, that I don't care what you know". What's more uprising to me is that Zola would sacrifice himself. He was the only Hydra troop who was afraid of death enough to not take his own life in 1943, why do it now? Surely he'd have nerve gas or something installed - a way to kill people who aren't presently computers. Could always chalk it up to several decades of offscreen character change as well, I suppose? I mean, when he made the algorithm he had evidently become more enamoured with HYDRA's ideals than ever, so its possible that as a result, the algorithm is more reflective of Arnim Zola, screaming Hail HYDRA with his last dying breath in the 70s, than it would be of him talking to Colonel Phillips, ready to sell the Red Skull's hiding spot out.
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Apr 13, 2014 11:51
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jivjov posted:My guess is that Zola's associates needed some way to get his work off of 70s tape reels and into modern systems so they wired the USB port into him. As to why Widow plugged the drive in...it was the only lead they had. Remember "this can't be the data origin, this tech is ancient" but then we see a modern port, showing that they were where they needed to be. I'm willing to bet that any interaction with the system would have woken Zola from "sleep mode", Widow just went with "plugging in a peripheral" Starting Windows Zola. Crisco Kid posted:Cap really needed a Sam Wilson, and not just for a safe house. And what's more, Sam is a This reminds me of this one gag from the Marvel Adventures line of comics, wherein Spidey and a bunch of the Avengers actually did go through some counselling, since they otherwise they don't get it that often. Naturally one of the assessments on Peter was 'Needs a wife?'.
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Apr 13, 2014 19:06
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PTSD counselor.
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 02:42 |
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HaitianDivorce posted:Who on earth got stuck counseling them, Doc Samson? I can only imagine a normal counselor trying to come to grips with patients so incredibly dysfunctional half of them can only talk to him in masks. Yes actually.
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Apr 13, 2014 20:14
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