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God help me, I read the entire thing. Originally I was just going to scan it and type 'lol you crazy' or something, but through sheer morbid curiosity I made it through. First, just to demonstrate that I'm not a complete idiot on this subject, I'm pretty much done with my Master's of Accounting, almost finished a minor in Econ, teach undergrad accounting, am nearing CPA completion, and have a job lined up with one of the Big 4 public accounting firms in one of the biggest markets in the US. So I'm far from running the Fed or Morgan Stanley but I know a few things about how money and the economics of free trade work. With that out of the way, here I go. Your 'idea' is completely devoid of any ideas. You're just using overly-complex explanations to describe pretty basic concepts that aren't new or interesting as a way to stroke yourself off on the internet. Like, seriously, look at this poo poo: quote:The Strangecoin network is a directed graph with users as nodes and some time-dependent transactions as edges between them. Transactions describes how Strangecoin trade between users at each time step. Let S be our unit of Strangecoin, and let t be our basic unit of time. And you know what, I think you know this. I think you're typing poo poo like this because if you expressed your ideas plainly then someone other than an accounting nerd might read it, understand it, and instantly go to the obvious questions that you're incapable of answering like..... what if someone had more than one account? Jesus, I mean anyone over a certain level of wealth has teams of people splitting money between trusts and dependents and offshore accounts and mutual funds etc etc. And really this is just the tip of the huge god drat ice berg of problems your non-idea idea contains. Which leads me to the more fun part quote:There's more work required to put flesh on the bones of this idea. There are many conversations to have about the dynamics of the network and the particular constraints it should operate within, both as a matter of practical operation and as a matter of sensible public policy. No. No you don't. You don't have the training or experience to have this conversation with me or anyone else who can decipher your maze of self-aggrandizing jargon. You're the equivalent of a guy who's stoned out of his mind somehow grabbing the mic at a theoretical physics conference and asking if maybe none of us really exist, maaaaaaaaan. You're an idiot who knows too many wikipedia words and desperately wants to be told how smart he is and it's pretty loving sad. Grow the gently caress up
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Mar 31, 2014 05:53
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SedanChair posted:He really does point out that value is created a little further down. It's actually a fun way to tell who read the whole thing or not. Yep quote:Of course, when I give you a dollar for a burger that's not really a zero sum transaction, because otherwise we wouldn't be motivated to enter into the transaction in the first place. I give you a dollar because I want the burger more than I want the dollar, and if you accept the trade it's because you want the dollar more than you want the burger, so in a fair exchange we both feel like we've come out ahead. In other words, there is some additional value in our fair exchange that is not accounted for in the burgers and the dollars alone. But if our bookkeeping method only counts burgers and dollars, then it's not accounting for the value that accrues in our transactions. I like how he uses the words accounting and bookkeeping several times while bemoaning his perception that no one is recording the value added in these transactions. He's got a point. It's not like there are any major intellectual disciplines or multi billion dollar industries designed to accurately measure and time the value of those transactions from every angle. So yeah, he does address it but doesn't know a drat thing about what he's trying to address
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Mar 31, 2014 07:07
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ErIog posted:Which brings up the better question of why he even brings up "zero sum game" in the first place if it's just a strawman for him to knock over. The idea that value is created through trade is like one of the key underpinnings to the entire idea of economics that is laid out in detail in the key works that launched the discipline. It's like he's trying to reinvent economics from scratch instead of spending time doing real research. I guess it's a lot easier to vomit 1500 words into D&D than to actually read/understand a primer on economics. It's definitely written for people who don't understand economics or accounting, but not as a way to get them to understand his proposal. It's written that way so that people who don't know poo poo about the subject will tell him how smart he is. I could post that nonsense-rear end rant on my Facebook and get tons of likes from idiots and a comment from my grandma telling me I'm a smart boy, and that's exactly what he's trying to do but I guess he doesn't have any friends?
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Mar 31, 2014 07:30
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Concerned Citizen posted:I'm going to be the devil's advocate here a little bit, so bear with me. Even if you solve for the multiple accounts and money hoarding problems, people with competent money managers would just move to liquid property investment vehicles that would allow conversion between cash and some kind of physical inventory.
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Mar 31, 2014 07:35
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In this post I'm going to assume you can get over the technical problems of a *coin such as 51% forks and transaction volume limits and actually create something instead of wanking about it on your blog. Obvious 2 seconds of thought problems from someone who knows a little something about accounting and finance: Corporations. Corporations are legally distinct entities and would need a seperate accounts. Many would need balances far exceeding an individual account to operate but the entities themselves are trivial to create. Any rich person would be able to exploit your dumb system and any safeguards against it would collapse the finance system in on itself. I could literally go on all day just on this one point and I'm not even touching partnerships and sole proprietorships. Physical stores of value. People would be able to store value in systems besides your dumb coins. If people were restricted in cash then they would just store value in some other item that could be easily converted between coins and that item. Governments. Literally every single country in the world would need to adopt your dumb coin to avoid people socking money away in other countries. You can see the problem with this right? Industries like mine would spend obscene amounts of money crushing your idea. Even assuming you got past us (you wouldn't) then the black market would take over on day one and crush your dumb coins for us. The switchover. My god, the transition. Can you even begin to imagine how the transition from pure cash to pure coins would work? It would be god drat financial Armageddon. I can't even begin to describe the problems here while phone posting on my way to the office. Your whole idea is so easily torn apart that it's silly. We have solutions to the problems you think exist within the confines of the existing monetary system. They're more feasible than your idea but still outside the realm of reality currently because of established interests. You're just more interested in sounding smart on the Internet than actually advocating for real solutions. You're a joke and the only person who isn't in on it is you
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Mar 31, 2014 15:10
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:To be fair, if you ran a philosophy department, wouldn't you keep an Eripsa around for essentially infinite laughs and examples of what not to do? Maybe he's actually good at philosophy? I honestly wouldn't know. I don't walk around pretending I can evaluate and completely redefine disciplines I don't know poo poo about. Imagine that
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Mar 31, 2014 16:41
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SedanChair posted:Sometimes it makes me sad that people are going into debt to sit in a classroom listening to Eripsa. To be fair, it's not like they'd be any more employable with a competent philosophy teacher.
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Mar 31, 2014 18:26
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Wait, did this guy also post as UglyCat or was that a different insane tech fetishist surviving as a parasite on academia?
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Mar 31, 2014 19:55
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RealityApologist posted:My particular work involves the theory of autonomy or automation You should perform a thorough analysis and testing of the autoban system
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Mar 31, 2014 20:08
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RealityApologist posted:Part of the point of a system like strangecoin is that you wouldn't need corporations as distinct legal entities, since their function would be entirely redundant. Individual agents themselves are capable of forming spontaneous corporate structures simply by engaging in the transactions. I honestly don't even know where to begin typing out how much worse this idea is than everything you've said so far. I started typing something about liability for 'stockholders'. Then I deleted it and started typing something about access to capital. Then I deleted that and started typing something about large purchases and variable corporate sizes requiring individually set balance caps and the lobbying fuckery that would allow. But in the end it's just easier to type 'jesus gently caress you're out of your depth on this issue'
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Mar 31, 2014 22:23
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Moving on from the Accounting/Finance issues, what about the technical? You do know that if someone controls 51% of the processing power in a *coin network then they can force their version of reality on every other user, right? A cartel of rich fuckers could and would seize control of your network and give themselves infinity billion dollars before you could even begin to respond. Then there's the transaction velocity limits. Bitcoin can handle like 7 transactions a second and needs to store all of those transactions in the block chain, making the thing 10's of gigabytes long (I haven't tracked exact length in a while) and growing every day while still only being a niche thing used by nerds. Every user needs to download that whole file. I know your solution is 'just make it better' but you have no idea how to address any of these problems or any of most basic accounting/finance problems I brought up earlier. Basically, this is you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q Except without any of the ability to be succinct
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Mar 31, 2014 22:47
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RealityApologist posted:Right, but users don't just have a single tax amplifying their transactions; each transaction amplifies the others in a cumulative way. If the tax was only proportional to the transaction it would be linear. But the tax is proporational to the network of transactions, and that makes it nonlinear. What is the incentive for nations and the general population to adopt your currency? What problems does this solve that outweigh the problems implementing it would cause? It's the most important question and the one you've consistently refused to answer.
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Apr 1, 2014 00:43
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RealityApologist posted:I've said multiple times that the issue of transitioning to a world of strangecoin is completely irrelevant. This is a project in modeling the dynamics of a complex economic system. Oh, so you're not saying "we should do this". That makes sense, because yeah, we totally shouldn't since it's a bad idea. Thanks for clearing that up
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Apr 1, 2014 01:17
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SedanChair posted:I don't thinkthat he's saying it should replace our system. I think what Eripsa is trying to say is, Yep, I completely checked out when it became clear that he wasn't really willing to advocate for this system. The whole thread is just 'if we did this crazy thing then interesting stuff might happen I guess?' Clearly this is just his daydream activity on par with a kid daydreaming about superheroes or anime but somehow even lamer and I feel dumb for taking part in it.
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Apr 2, 2014 07:04
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RealityApologist posted:SedanChair gets mad props for being loving awesome during the whole hangout. I owe you a beer or acceptable alternative, which you may choose to enjoy far away from me. Watched up to the point where dude called you out for having dumb half-formed ideas and you started babbling about signals and ants and world of warcraft What the gently caress is wrong with your brain?
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Apr 4, 2014 21:55
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DoctorDilettante posted:It's worth a full watch, if only to see all of us skeptics engaging with each other. The quality of the comments really was quite high. Your glasses look bad
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Apr 4, 2014 21:59
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RealityApologist posted:This may be of interest to people in this thread: I mean,yeah, it's interesting. But only in the way that the freak show at a circus is interesting.
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Apr 7, 2014 18:10
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CheesyDog posted:Now now don't rush him, he may have gotten a job! or something! If I had to say which was more likely, strangecoin being adopted world wide or a philosophy major getting a job, I'd have to go with strangecoin adoption.
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Apr 26, 2014 22:30
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Can we stop pretending there's any point to this idea outside of making it easier to write research papers? The whole concept seems to be born from frustration at thesis research since the transparency and centralization are the only aspects of the system that seem to remain mandatory in every iteration of this dumb idea. I realize life would be much easier for you if you could just run SQL queries on the strange coin database instead of doing actual research and learning economics, but maybe you should be doing those things instead of wasting your time mentally masturbating to your unworkable 'specs'
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Apr 28, 2014 15:00
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My thinking last time I posted: There's no way this could get any dumber My thinking now: lol
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Apr 28, 2014 20:48
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RealityApologist posted:No, I'm not. I explicitly said that I was giving up the economic and political rhetoric to concentrate on modeling the multiagent network. I've explicitly adjusted my presentation and rhetoric on the basis of the criticisms raised in this thread. I'm being responsive to criticism. And y'all call me a flipflopper for doing so. Please tell me you are directly involved with undergrad students at your school so that the next generation can observe the consequences of choosing a loving retarded major.
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Apr 28, 2014 22:52
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If you want me to play your game then you should consider adding some tits and/or explosions to your spec.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:07
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The funniest thing is that "Why?" is literally the only question related to this proposal that Eprisa is trained for and presumably qualified to answer. Can we just re-ban Eprisa already? He's already admitted that he's using someone else's account to avoid a ban on his other account. None of this is a secret and this well has been pumped dry. Banned Account: http://forums.somethingawful.com/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=26846 Admits to account sharing 30 sec into this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1EA8_taJmI e: uncurable mlady posted:Move thread to yospos, change title. also acceptable
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Apr 29, 2014 20:34
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Muscle Tracer posted:How does "influence" allow you to capitalize on advantages, or give you flexibility? It's been demonstrated numerous times that wealth is infinite and infinitely accessible in SC. But you've claimed that "influence" is important anyway, somehow. Given that, how does being able to distribute more of it come to mean anything at all? How does anything denominated in an infinite, valueless commodity somehow bestow power or weakness on others? I liked someones analogy from earlier where strange coin is essentially an economy based on air where some people have hand fans and other people have leaf blowers. None of it matters. Everyone just goes around blowing each other for goods and services
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May 1, 2014 18:46
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Little Blackfly posted:If he wanted a reputation economy, why bother with the "coin" aspect of strangecoin at all? Because he noticed someone had done something that looked like it could possibly be related to the project he'd been mentally masturbating to for years and then decided to appropriate it without fully understanding the implications. First time that has ever happened, clearly. e: video of emergent network theory model found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_7PRDPa7I4 Good Citizen fucked around with this message at 23:56 on May 1, 2014 |
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May 1, 2014 23:46
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Who What Now posted:Yes they do. Or, more accurately, they don't give a poo poo if they are because what people want out of their social networks is to stay in touch with grandma and their friends from high school. That's it. You're completely out of touch with what the average person uses social networking for and what they want out of it. Yep. I would literally rather set myself on fire than try to teach my grandma how to use a new and different social network program. Never again.
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Mar 7, 2015 17:41
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