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I totally couldn't figure out how to activate the Ellmac bossfight and so I didn't do it until way later. On the other hand, my super-powered late game Lemeza absolutely obliterated poor Ellmac.
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Apr 17, 2014 17:38
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I am still trying to figure out why, after your videos end, all the related videos are La Mulana. Except one which is a Volkswagen crash test. Good stuff so far, BTW, despite your skill level.
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Apr 17, 2014 17:59
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Request: take the ladder up from the Temple of Moonlight. Though you can't do anything in that area, it's good to know it's there.
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Apr 17, 2014 18:03
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 I never realized you could actually scan those Egyptian God statues in the background! Gonna have my work cut out for me for this one.Also I can't believe you jumped on that crumbling platform in the Temple of Moonlight. I know it's not something a new player would necessarily know to avoid, but still. Now you will never be able to access that "shortcut" to a later area that absolutely nobody ever uses! ETA: Going through, there are absolutely no scannable spots in the Temple of Moonlight. No neat background details to scan, and all the stuff that looks like it sticks out enough to have a scan attached is just background. Even that cool miniature Nebra Sky Disk doesn't have an attached scan! DoubleNegative fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 18:12
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Agent355 posted:Hey it's Thursday now. Sun Temple had quite the backside didn't it? Very...expansive! Didn't Ellmac originally have levers and poo poo you could hit to get up to hit his head alot easier?
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Apr 17, 2014 18:52
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Samizdata posted:
Shots fired. It's honestly not that I'm bad at the game, but I am impatient and I really don't care if I get hit, so I just kinda roll through taking shots because I don't care enough to avoid them. HOOLY BOOLY posted:Sun Temple had quite the backside didn't it? Very...expansive! We haven't seen all of it yet!
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Apr 17, 2014 19:49
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Agent355 posted:Shots fired. Hey, at least you didn't record with the mouse cursor in the middle of the screen!  I figured out what the problem was, actually. I use OBS to record, because I know nothing about recording and had to pester Agent on how to do things like pull the game audio out from the video and mix it with the commentary audio. There IS an option in OBS to not capture the mouse cursor, but there's a different option that appears to only apply to the stream and I had the wrong one set. I mean, I could have just NOT had the mouse cursor on the screen, but 
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Apr 17, 2014 20:01
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La-Mulana 2 needs to have Mouse puzzles, like clicking a specific part of the screen or maybe a room where the mouse is a platform or a light source. Nigoro please hire me i'll work for cheap ramen.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:08
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SourceElement posted:ETA: Going through, there are absolutely no scannable spots in the Temple of Moonlight. No neat background details to scan, and all the stuff that looks like it sticks out enough to have a scan attached is just background. Even that cool miniature Nebra Sky Disk doesn't have an attached scan! Temple of Moonlight has several scannable spots. Aside from the always-scannable (if it's not in a wall) lightning-zappy eye of retribution and cross of light, there are also: - One glyph/symbol in E3 (this one's shared with three other rooms in the game) - The other glyph/symbol in E3 (this one's unique to here) - A certain boulder in B3 (before loving with it, not scannable afterward) - The spike trap below the map in B2 - That symbol in the upper-right corner of D3 (again, before loving with it) That said, all of those are solidly gameplay-related scans and have no archaeological ties to them. I've got a full (and spoilery) list of background scan locations (there's an achievement tied to viewing them all, across playthroughs), if you'd like me to PM you a copy.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:25
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I don't know if things change in the remake, but at least in the original the knife made Sakit a joke. I don't see why it wouldn't be the same at least for his first phase here.
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Apr 17, 2014 20:46
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Vil posted:I've got a full (and spoilery) list of background scan locations (there's an achievement tied to viewing them all, across playthroughs), if you'd like me to PM you a copy. Please do! While I like to think I've been thorough as hell with my captures, it would be nice to have a list to draw from.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:05
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I don't think this is a spoiler since you are already past it, but that ladder that didn't have a platform under it actually could have had a platform under it. If you had not jumped onto the crumbling platform, the block would have landed so you could climb the ladder. That puzzle is actually one of the very few that you can screw up, permanently. (All it gives you is a shortcut from the temple of moonlight)
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Apr 17, 2014 22:09
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Agent355 posted:Shots fired. No insult intended. I was just rolling with the running joke in the videos.
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Apr 17, 2014 22:19
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Samizdata posted:No insult intended. I was just rolling with the running joke in the videos. Oh come now, surely you don't mean it!
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Apr 17, 2014 23:42
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  The White Giant of the Tassili n'Ajjer plateau is just one of thousands of pieces of prehistoric rock art found in Algeria. The plateau itself is made of sandstone, which means that the vegetation is more lush there than in other areas, and is home to several species of endangered plants. Archaeologists suspect the rock art to be at least 9-10 millennia old. These carvings were ancient at the height of the Pharaonic Egyptians. We're talking 8,000 BC or older. The art itself depicts herds of animals, and people dancing and hunting together. I can't find any special significance for the white giant, and Google searches only turn up results for the plateau. As is tradition so far, it is also the odd scan out as far as the rest of the Temple goes. Because the rest of this area is a who's who of Egyptian mythology.    These are in no particular order, just whatever order I scanned them in. Anyway, first up is Hathor, the Egyptian goddess of "the sky, love, beauty, joy, motherhood, foreign lands, mining, music, and fertility." She was also believed to welcome the dead into the next life. Typically she is depicted as a cow goddess with horns and a sun disk that has a snake wrapped around it. The ancient Greeks viewed Hathor as Aphrodite, and the Romans called her Venus, if that helps any.  There are a lot of results if you GIS Egyptian gods. By the way, you really should not GIS Egyptian mythological figures.  Hathor's Temple Complex at Dendera   Isis is the Egyptian goddess of "motherhood, magic, and fertility." She has a throne on her headdress, though later on she and Hathor were merged into more-or-less the same being. She is a very interesting goddess, as she is often shown as being the mother of Horus. This is interesting because she had Horus with Osiris, her brother. I hope you enjoy reading about mythological incest, because the ancient Egyptian pantheon is rife with it. As far as merging her with Hathor goes, that came about around the time that the Cult of Ra came to prominence. Because of her associations with Horus, and because Horus and Ra were associated, Isis became associated with Ra by proxy. Unfortunately, in some regions, the official OTP was Ra and Hathor. So to placate ancient Egyptian ships, Hathor and Isis were merged into Hathor-Isis. Also please kill me for describing Egyptian mythology in terms of Internet culture.  I will never not be amazed at how well this game's sprite artists were able to translate images and carvings to the game.   Thoth is the Egyptian god of "knowledge, Hieroglyphs, and wisdom." Depictions of Thoth vary between having the head of an ibis or baboon. The game goes with the ibis depiction, for what that's worth. At first, Thoth was depicted as being one of the two guardians of the universe - the other being his wife Ma'at. Later on, however, he became the arbitrator that the other gods came to when they were having a dispute. His domain was also magic, writing, science, and judging the dead. Despite being an arbitrator and a judge of the dead, his wife was actually the goddess of truth and justice.    It wasn't until I was capturing these that I realized the statues in the background behind the main pyramid were able to be scanned. This god is Osiris, the god of the afterlife. Also apparently his son Horus was "posthumously begotten" which I really hope does not mean what I think that means. Because the incest is gross enough, but... Anyway. Osiris had a second, extremely important job, in ancient Egypt. More important than being the lord and keeper of the dead. See, he was also responsible for the yearly flooding of the Nile. If you've ever played Sierra's classic city-building game Pharaoh, then you also know that he was exceptionally generous with his gifts and a few temples kept him pretty happy and kept your people well fed.  While searching for this kinda cool image of Osiris, I found an object of utter and indescribable horror.   This fine upstanding fellow is Anubis. He is the Egyptian protector of the dead, and god of embalming. It seems the Egyptian gods were very into specialization. He used to be the God of the Dead, during the Old Kingdom period, which lasted from roughly 2680BC to 2180BC. Eventually he was replaced by Osiris and instead became the protector of the dead.  I found this image on DeviantArt, but it depicts a very important moment. It is Anubis performing the "Weighing of the Heart" ceremony. During this ceremony, he places the heart of the recently dead on his scales, and on the other side of the scales he sets a feather of Ma'at. If the heart is heavier than the feather, then the dead would be devoured by that crocodile thing in the background. Don't worry, though. The heart would only be heavier than the feather if it were impure. To be eaten by the Ammit (the name of the crocodile demon) was considered a great shame, and those so cursed would be considered to have died a second death and forevermore be restless.  This is a statue of Herm-Anubis, who is a fusion of Hermes and Anubis. Wikipedia claims that it's on display in the Vatican Anubis was also a fan of going fast   Nephthys is the Egyptian goddess of "death, service, lamentation, and nighttime." I'm starting to notice a pattern with the gods found surrounding the pyramid. She is often found depicted as the companion of the next god to the right, Set. She is also considered to be the sister of both Isis and Osiris. Also apparently she is Anubis's mother. Look, I'll post a family tree after I finish covering all these gods. It gets complicated.  This carving of Nephthys can be found in the Louvre  The most popular depiction of Nephthys is that of a young woman with a house and basket on top of her head   Wikipedia says that Set is the Egyptian god of "storms, the desert, disorder, violence, and foreigners." In the mythology, Set is said to have killed and mutilated his own brother, Osiris. Isis then revived Osiris and convinced him to have a child with her. That child, Horus, decided to go and take revenge on Set. Oh and just for good measure he married his other sister Nephthys who then fathered Anubis.  Interestingly enough, Set's face is an unknown animal. Egyptologists call it the "Set Animal" though it is also known as the "Tyhponic Beast," named, oddly enough, for the Greek beast Typhon.  In 2009, the TV show Destination Truth was apparently looking into the origins of the Egyptian cryptid the "salawa" which is yet another name for the Set animal. There was even a local sighting of the salawa, and the crew investigated. What they found was not a salawa, but it was positively adorable.    Fennec foxes are so cute    The next goddess in our tour is Bastet. She is the Egyptian goddess of cats, protection, joy, dance, music, love, and apparently fertility. Yeah, the Egyptian cat goddess of fertility. Just imagine how that GIS went.  She wasn't properly identified as Bastet the cat goddess until relatively late (the 22nd Dynasty, 945 - 715 BC) in ancient Egypt. Until then she was a lion-headed goddess and was often merged with Sekhmet, who was a goddess of war and vengeance. It is said that when her temple was unearthed, more than 300,000 lovingly mummified cats were found inside. The Egyptians really loved cats, and that made Bastet a very important goddess to them.  A statue of Bastet  I think this is promotional art for an ancient Egypt themed MOBA. Either way it's pretty cool   The Wedjet is also known as the Wadjet, and the Eye of Horus. The Egyptians revered it as a symbol of protection, royal power, and good health. Sailors were said to have often painted the Wedjet on the bow of their ships to keep them safe. They were also found on amulets buried with dead pharaohs, to keep them safe in their journey to the afterlife. Being forced to meditate under the eye to get the red jewel is also symbolic. You can view it as Lemeza praying to the Wedjet for protection against the upcoming boss.  The Wedjet is also known as the Udjat and can be found in a golden chest locked by a golden key somewhere in the caves. If you pick it up you can then see hidden gems and other fun things in the walls of the ruins. If you get near the entrance to the black market, the eye will also start to flash. Be sure to pick it up if you want to get into the city of gold, as you will almost certainly need it to find all the necessary artifacts to gain entrance.    You've heard all about him and how he's the product of all sorts of insane incest. Now you get to meet him properly! Horus is the Egyptian god of "vengeance, the sky, protection, and war." His symbol is the Wedjet eye, and he is depicted as having the head of a falcon. Prior to Ra becoming the chief god, Horus was it. He is widely considered to be the first national god of Egypt and descent from him was even used as justification of Pharaonic power.  A depiction of Horus in the Louvre  I think this is artwork from a DC comic   Tefnut is the Egyptian goddess of moisture. She is the sister and consort of Shu, and she is the mother of Geb and Nut. Despite being an extremely important goddess, the wikipedia page for her is surprisingly sparse. Her husband (and brother) is the god of air, her children are the gods of the sky and ground. She's not exactly obscure. According to the Heliopolitans, she was born because her dad jerked off and the cum then dripped onto the ground. wikipedia posted:Atum was creative in that he proceeded to masturbate himself in Heliopolis. He took his penis in his hand so that he might obtain the pleasure of orgasm thereby. And brother and sister were born - that is Shu and Tefnut. Another, more "fun" version has Atum eating the semen and spitting it back out to form Tefnut and Shu. Is it really any wonder that the Egyptian gods are as hosed up as they are?    Shu, as I mentioned above, is the Egyptian god of air and one of the "primordial" gods. That is to say, his grandchildren are Osiris, Isis, Set, and Nephthys. Most every depiction of Shu has him holding his two children, Nut and Geb, apart. The popular myth was that if Shu didn't hold them apart, there was no way for life to be created otherwise.     Lemeza is not a very good archaeologist. He was able to identify Aten pretty readily, but he didn't stop to consider that the lizard headed god was perhaps Sobek? Sobek is known as the Egyptian god of the Nile, the army, the military, and fertility. Egyptians would often invoke his protection for dangers found on the Nile. On the what-the-gently caress o-meter, Sobek was also apparently known as the "lord of semen." What the gently caress posted:Unis is Sobek, green of plumage, with alert face and raised fore, the splashing one who came from the thigh and tail of the great goddess in the sunlight…Unis has appeared as Sobek, Neith’s son. Unis will eat with his mouth, Unis will urinate and Unis will copulate with his penis. Unis is lord of semen, who takes women from their husbands to the place Unis likes according to his heart’s fancy. "   Meanwhile, Aten found on the thing's head is more simply the "disk of the sun." It wasn't really referred to as a god until Amenhotep IV changed his name to Akenhaten and decided that the new best policy for Egypt was one of sun-worshipping monotheism. He ruled for only 17 years before dying, so you can surmise that he was not a very popular figure. Alternate history theorists have their own ideas on who Akenhaten was. They think he was the Biblical figure Moses. While there is some slight evidence to suggest this, most Biblical and Egyptian scholars are quick to point out that the evidence is only tenuous.  Artist's rendition of the Aten   So much incest  Finally we have Ellmac. Agent355 (or was it Yapo?) mentioned that this guy looks like one of those "Jesus lizards" and he was half right. The basilisk can indeed run across water. The basilisk is found in central and south America, but has been seen as far north as Florida. However the actual creature that Ellmac is based on is found in an entirely different part of the world.  Meet the Frilled Lizard. This little sucker is found in Australia and parts of New Guinea and spends most of its time in trees eating insects. Occasionally they will go after spiders or other small lizards, though. Typically they're around 85cm in length, which is just under three feet. Their coloring varies depending on what climate they're found in, and the only certainty is that their frill is a lighter color than their body.
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Apr 17, 2014 23:51
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Agent355 posted:Hey it's Thursday now. Nice, an Egyptian backside. Have there always been $5 coins and I just didn't notice, or is it steadily increasing throughout the game? Also it's kinda funny when you fall into the boss room the first time the spikes are still there even though the cart is in the room - I'd imagine you could impale yourself if you fell wrong. I figured at first they were showing you because it would be where the boss stood and the spikes would sporadically pop up and try to kill you.
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Apr 18, 2014 00:41
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SourceElement posted:
I think it's supposed to be a depiction of Ermar/Elmac in the style of an Egyptian god, where the Aten is its neck frill. The face of the statue doesn't really match a crocodile's but is closer to the frilled lizard, and the fact that Lemeza can't recognize it may have pointed to it not being part of the Egyptian pantheon. Also, if Guidance Gate / the Mausoleum was any indication, images of the boss are found in or near the boss room (or in the case of the Mausoleum, are the boss). I'm really enjoying these art overviews, thanks for doing them. Spiderfist Island fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 01:18
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Mehuyael posted:I don't know if things change in the remake, but at least in the original the knife made Sakit a joke. I don't see why it wouldn't be the same at least for his first phase here. Yeah they fixed that; I tried the old 'run up to his face and knife him in the nose like a madman' tactic but you can't actually stand in his face and stab him like you could in the old version because if you actually touch his face now you get hurt, so you're stuck trying to jump up and down and the reduced range pretty much gurantees that you'll take damage. That said the knife did keep its slight downward attacking (you can strike at a pot you are standing on with the knife which is really useful in a couple of rooms) so it still has niche uses. e: Also, is it just me or did those wierd backside bats and pointy skeletons look familiar 
Neruz fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 01:58
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Seems like there's quite a few changes from the original. The Boots being in the shop and Ellmac not dropping "that item" are the most glaring changes so far. I like it, waiting to get the Boots sucks and I'm pretty sure I have a good idea where "that item" ended up. Making Ellmac not required to murder immediately is a good thing IMO. This Isis Pendant stuff is all new, I'm hoping it makes the whole fairy thing less obtuse.
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Apr 18, 2014 03:03
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Haha yeah the fairy puzzle in the original goddamn. I almost managed to work it out on my own but that puzzle was where La Mulana finally broke me and I had to go get a guide to progress.
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Apr 18, 2014 03:09
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Two men go in the back side of a lady. And she speaks a language you can't understand. La Mulana, ladies and gentlemen.
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Apr 18, 2014 05:52
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Veloxyll posted:Two men go in the back side of a lady. Oh, it will get better.
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Apr 18, 2014 06:48
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I've always thought that the backside was a great way to deal with a light world-dark world thing in a 2D platformer. I think of the world as sort of a flat canvas behind Lemeza, and he just walks through a hole in the canvas and ends up on the other side, where there's a different canvas. It works really well as a way of conceiving of La Mulana with the exception of one area: just a big flat wall divided into many areas, and if you go to the other side of the wall, there's another set of areas that match up to the front side.
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Apr 18, 2014 06:52
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Patter Song posted:I've always thought that the backside was a great way to deal with a light world-dark world thing in a 2D platformer. I think of the world as sort of a flat canvas behind Lemeza, and he just walks through a hole in the canvas and ends up on the other side, where there's a different canvas. It works really well as a way of conceiving of La Mulana with the exception of one area: just a big flat wall divided into many areas, and if you go to the other side of the wall, there's another set of areas that match up to the front side. One thing is for certain, La Mulana seems to have some very odd geometry! It's quite ..... puzzling. Also :cackle: needs to be a thing. Some sort of evil puppet master 'Dance my pretties dance' thing. Agent355 fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 07:13
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-snip-
Genocyber fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 07:34
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Agent355 posted:One thing is for certain, La Mulana seems to have some very odd geometry! It's quite ..... puzzling. Yeah, even if you discount the Endless Corridor there is some distinctly non-euclidean geometry going on in La Mulana, especially if you map out the backside areas to the frontside ones (there are a few locations where a background thing appears in both frontside and backside allowing you to tell where certain parts of the backside are in relation to the frontside) then you find that things are very odd. I found this out when I sat down to draw a 'proper' map during my first playthrough of the game and discovered multiple rooms occupying the same physical space.
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Apr 18, 2014 07:43
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Genocyber posted:stuff Boy that sure does look like information relevant to solving puzzles in the future that I haven't talked about! I mean I guess not ~really~ but it's actually extremely relevant to some later puzzles and I was going to bring up the interesting geometry of la mulana then. E: Actually this post is super passive aggressive and it doesn't need to be! There is some really interesting geometry going on in the ruins, feel free to talk about it though I won't be explaining exactly the ramifications until it comes up in the video. Just keep any blatant puzzle solution spoilers out of the thread. Agent355 fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 07:54
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Can't you also get a hint about the Isis Pendant's location by looking at the name of the room with the secret passage? I thought I remembered it being called Isis' something or other.
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Apr 18, 2014 23:15
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Agent355 posted:Boy that sure does look like information relevant to solving puzzles in the future that I haven't talked about! I mean I guess not ~really~ but it's actually extremely relevant to some later puzzles and I was going to bring up the interesting geometry of la mulana then. Didn't think it was a big deal since it's mentioned in the manual but eh. I edited out. Genocyber fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 23:22
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pumpinglemma posted:Can't you also get a hint about the Isis Pendant's location by looking at the name of the room with the secret passage? I thought I remembered it being called Isis' something or other. I just looked it up and apparantly yes! The room is called Isis' Anterior Chamber, another clue. Genocyber posted:Didn't think it was a big deal since it's mentioned in the manual but eh. I edited out. Yah thats why I edited my post, it isn't a big deal. It's just related to how you solve what I think is one of the coolest puzzles in the game so I explicitly didn't mention it, I hinted at it. To be fair you didn't even explicitly say the trick to the puzzle either so I'm just being overly sensitive with future puzzle solvin'. Agent355 fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 23:28
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I'm impressed at how easy you make some of these puzzles look - it took me forever to get some of them, and I'm still wandering the ruins aimlessly a bunch at maybe like 70% of the way through, consulting the wiki more and more often as I go.
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Apr 18, 2014 23:50
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Patter Song posted:I've always thought that the backside was a great way to deal with a light world-dark world thing in a 2D platformer. I think of the world as sort of a flat canvas behind Lemeza, and he just walks through a hole in the canvas and ends up on the other side, where there's a different canvas. It works really well as a way of conceiving of La Mulana with the exception of one area: just a big flat wall divided into many areas, and if you go to the other side of the wall, there's another set of areas that match up to the front side. It makes the scope of the game even more massive than you first realize. It makes Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night seem microscopic. We've barely scratched the surface (haw) about 2-3 hours in, and this is with someone who knows what they're doing.
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Apr 18, 2014 23:54
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I'm looking at the list of scans that Vil sent me and comparing notes to my own and I noticed something I wanted to share. Ra is the Egyptian God of the Sun, right? Ostensibly the zone is a place to worship Ra, even with a pyramid being built in his honor. So why doesn't he have a statue there? There is no mention of Ra in the one place that it would make sense to see a reference to him! Just something interesting to think about.
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Apr 19, 2014 00:05
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Manoueverable posted:I'm impressed at how easy you make some of these puzzles look - it took me forever to get some of them, and I'm still wandering the ruins aimlessly a bunch at maybe like 70% of the way through, consulting the wiki more and more often as I go. It's very easy to know what puzzle the tablets are hinting at when you already know all the solutions. 
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Apr 19, 2014 00:42
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uPen posted:It's very easy to know what puzzle the tablets are hinting at when you already know all the solutions. Yeah, if you know what you're doing you can get through the areas pretty quickly. A first playthrough would probably take anywhere from 15 to 30 hours, it's not hard to get it under 10, and I think the record speedrun is sub 2.
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Apr 19, 2014 00:52
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SourceElement posted:I'm looking at the list of scans that Vil sent me and comparing notes to my own and I noticed something I wanted to share. It's kind of weird 'cause Ra was merged with all kinds of gods I guess according to the fashion of the time or political maneuvering or which cult was most influential.
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Apr 19, 2014 00:55
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uPen posted:It's very easy to know what puzzle the tablets are hinting at when you already know all the solutions. I end up reverse engineering the logic behind the solution more often than I actually figure out the puzzles. I only hope I get the logic right more often than not. Some of the areas are pretty convoluted and figuring out exactly how I'm supposed to know to do this, even knowing the solution, is difficult.
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Apr 19, 2014 01:29
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The trick I found when I was playing through blind was to get into the mind of an utter bastard trying to gently caress with the people playing his game, found most of the secrets by pretty much just going "Hmm if I was a complete rear end in a top hat where would I put a secret on this screen?"
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Apr 19, 2014 03:18
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SourceElement posted:I'm looking at the list of scans that Vil sent me and comparing notes to my own and I noticed something I wanted to share. This is actually less puzzling if you read a bit about ancient Egyptian history. There were multiple sun gods that were referred to in different contexts, periods and places (hell, even Ra got re-imagined a couple times, most famously by having fused with Amun - and eventually became one with Horus) - pinpointing an actual Egyptian sun god would be quite a problem and we already got Aten in the boss room. It's similar as with the moon temple - the actual Egyptian god of the moon, Khonsu, was, for one, male, and for two, a bloodthirsty rear end in a top hat. While he did have some ties to fertility, there was nothing particularly female about him. edit: He did, however, love to play checkers. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Apr 19, 2014 |
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Apr 19, 2014 08:27
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The important thing to take away from this LP is that La Mulana is not historically accurate 
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Apr 19, 2014 08:30
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