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Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069




Clapping Larry

Rap Record Hoarder posted:

Apparently, the US created and implemented a fake twitter-esque service to foment rebellion in Cuba against Castro and they did it under the guise of "humanitarian outreach" via the USAID. In the big scheme of things this isn't surprising in the least, it's hilarious in a really hosed up way. I mean, this is the stuff conspiracy theorists dream of, something out of a Tom Clancy novel.


http://www.salon.com/2014/04/03/the_secret_is_out_u_s_built_cuban_twitter_to_stir_up_political_unrest/
http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/3/5577254/us-created-cuban-twitter-to-fuel-anti-castro-dissidence-ap
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26872866

hooooly poo poo this is incredible. What a ridiculous subversion of the organization's mission.

"Whiteytarian outreach"

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Edible Hat
Jul 23, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Shbobdb posted:

I know NeoCons were really big into continental philosophy, but seeing the entire party adopt it is totally :stare:

What are you talking about?

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer
Surely being pro-cockfighting in the primary is going to hurt McConnell in the general, right? Right??

Eggplant Squire
Aug 14, 2003


Stew Man Chew posted:

hooooly poo poo this is incredible. What a ridiculous subversion of the organization's mission.

"Whiteytarian outreach"

Thanks State department. I'm sure Americans doing real foreign aid are going to appreciate the proof that crazy extremists need to attack them.

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Stew Man Chew posted:

hooooly poo poo this is incredible. What a ridiculous subversion of the organization's mission.

"Whiteytarian outreach"

They did the same thing in backing Ukraine opposition, which has now blown up in their face

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ

PostNouveau posted:

Surely being pro-cockfighting in the primary is going to hurt McConnell in the general, right? Right??

McConnell is anti-cockfighting. His primary opponent, Matt Bevin, spoke at the pro-cockfighting rally, but claims that he was only aware that the Gamefowl Defense Network was a state's rights advocacy group.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax
A new independent study finds since September 5.4 million people who did not have insurance now have it. Thus study only goes through the beginning of March and DOES NOT include the surge of 3 million exchange sign-ups, also does not include medicaid or under 26ers.

Uninsurance dropped 2.7% in the five months between October and march. Another way to put that is a full 15% of uninsured got health insurance.

So, uh, democrats might actually wanna run on this if the next couple months go well.

duz
Jul 11, 2005

Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost


zoux posted:

I think it's really cool that in America, literally children ask tougher and more relevant questions than the entire professional newsmedia.

Well the children aren't afraid of losing their mythical "access".

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

greatn posted:

A new independent study finds since September 5.4 million people who did not have insurance now have it. Thus study only goes through the beginning of March and DOES NOT include the surge of 3 million exchange sign-ups, also does not include medicaid or under 26ers.

Uninsurance dropped 2.7% in the five months between October and march. Another way to put that is a full 15% of uninsured got health insurance.

So, uh, democrats might actually wanna run on this if the next couple months go well.

Yeah but if they do that the Republicans might say mean things to and about them and they'll just shuffle their feet and apologize for passing reasonable policies :ohdear:

Taeke
Feb 2, 2010


Rap Record Hoarder posted:

Apparently, the US created and implemented a fake twitter-esque service to foment rebellion in Cuba against Castro and they did it under the guise of "humanitarian outreach" via the USAID. In the big scheme of things this isn't surprising in the least, it's hilarious in a really hosed up way. I mean, this is the stuff conspiracy theorists dream of, something out of a Tom Clancy novel.


http://www.salon.com/2014/04/03/the_secret_is_out_u_s_built_cuban_twitter_to_stir_up_political_unrest/
http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/3/5577254/us-created-cuban-twitter-to-fuel-anti-castro-dissidence-ap
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26872866

I heard about this on the radio, holy poo poo. It's a shame this'll probably damage organizations that are actually legit in trying to help humanity instead of just US interests.

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH

Radish posted:

Thanks State department. I'm sure Americans doing real foreign aid are going to appreciate the proof that crazy extremists need to attack them.

Yep. I've talked to several people here in Benin who have accused me of being an American spy, working to keep them poor and downtrodden. They think that we are lying when we give trainings on proper nutrition or actively trying to get them to poison themselves. Its not widespread, but poo poo like this is dangerous for both Americans and the people we are helping. It pisses me off when intelligence agencies subvert beneficial missions like this. It fucks over everyone involved, including the alphabet soup. Human intelligence doesn't grow on trees guys... :argh:

Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069




Clapping Larry

Fried Chicken posted:

They did the same thing in backing Ukraine opposition, which has now blown up in their face

uh never mind here this might actually be a not-good thing to post

Gunshow Poophole fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Apr 3, 2014

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Taeke posted:

I heard about this on the radio, holy poo poo. It's a shame this'll probably damage organizations that are actually legit in trying to help humanity instead of just US interests.

Three years ago it came out that the CIA was operating at least one fake vaccination clinic in Pakistan, ruining the perception of NGOs doing absolutely critical medical work in one of the most high-population density distressed areas on earth.

This thing is awful but that damage was already done even more comprehensively.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene

Edible Hat posted:

What are you talking about?

Creating reality through legislation. For example, the North Carolina bill were the rise in sea levels is legally mandated. It's been going on for a while, but it was mostly the NeoCons (people like Strauss) and the YECs. When Rove critiqued the "reality based community" saying, "That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality ... we'll act again, creating other new realities... . We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." But that wasn't the way that non-YEC TheoCons and Libertarians, much less establishment Republicans thought. They still thought they were acting within the confines of reality as opposed to standing over reality and creating it. But that sort of thought has become mainstream in the GOP and that's deeply scary. It's also why you end up with things like unskewed polls and the media bubble the Right is trapped in. The trend has been there for a while but since Obama took office we are on the other side of the singularity.

Re: Cockfighting

I don't really see what is so wrong with it. It is a brutal blood sport, sure. But is it really that much worse than factory farming? I used to go to cockfights when I lived in the Bronx. It was just a thing to do. I eat meat sourced from some pretty loving dark places so it's not like I've got a high horse to ride on.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer

Joementum posted:

McConnell is anti-cockfighting. His primary opponent, Matt Bevin, spoke at the pro-cockfighting rally, but claims that he was only aware that the Gamefowl Defense Network was a state's rights advocacy group.

Oh, whew. I completely misread your post.

Eggplant Squire
Aug 14, 2003


UberJew posted:

Three years ago it came out that the CIA was operating at least one fake vaccination clinic in Pakistan, ruining the perception of NGOs doing absolutely critical medical work in one of the most high-population density distressed areas on earth.

This thing is awful but that damage was already done even more comprehensively.

It made me spitting mad when people I know in real life told me Snowden was a traitor since "he was putting Americans on foreign soil at risk" when our intelligence agencies are doing a fine job of that by themselves.

Judakel
Jul 29, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!

Rap Record Hoarder posted:

Apparently, the US created and implemented a fake twitter-esque service to foment rebellion in Cuba against Castro and they did it under the guise of "humanitarian outreach" via the USAID. In the big scheme of things this isn't surprising in the least, it's hilarious in a really hosed up way. I mean, this is the stuff conspiracy theorists dream of, something out of a Tom Clancy novel.


http://www.salon.com/2014/04/03/the_secret_is_out_u_s_built_cuban_twitter_to_stir_up_political_unrest/
http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/3/5577254/us-created-cuban-twitter-to-fuel-anti-castro-dissidence-ap
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26872866

They (further) ruined the reputation of USAID for Cuba?

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!
USAID got involved in the Palestinian elections http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/21/AR2006012101431.html

And the Ukraine opposition http://pando.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government-documents-show/

Not real surprising they were stirring the pot in Cuba.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

FAUXTON posted:

The 2000s were so bad they killed three of the Ramones.

And one of The Clash!

esto es malo
Aug 3, 2006

Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

Shbobdb posted:

Creating reality through legislation. For example, the North Carolina bill were the rise in sea levels is legally mandated. It's been going on for a while, but it was mostly the NeoCons (people like Strauss) and the YECs. When Rove critiqued the "reality based community" saying, "That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality ... we'll act again, creating other new realities... . We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." But that wasn't the way that non-YEC TheoCons and Libertarians, much less establishment Republicans thought. They still thought they were acting within the confines of reality as opposed to standing over reality and creating it. But that sort of thought has become mainstream in the GOP and that's deeply scary. It's also why you end up with things like unskewed polls and the media bubble the Right is trapped in. The trend has been there for a while but since Obama took office we are on the other side of the singularity.

Re: Cockfighting

I don't really see what is so wrong with it. It is a brutal blood sport, sure. But is it really that much worse than factory farming? I used to go to cockfights when I lived in the Bronx. It was just a thing to do. I eat meat sourced from some pretty loving dark places so it's not like I've got a high horse to ride on.

So what point of that slope do you accept harm coming to animals?

Treatment of farm animals for food --1-> animal fighting for entertainment --2-> Animal cruelty for absolute no reason other than psychological isues

While ethical treatment of farm animals is a very grey area, at least it's being done for sustenance rather than gambling or some sick sense of entertainment. We should aim to treat animals better during the farming cycle, but even harshly treated animals are at least trading life for life in a very direct sense, the difference labeled "1" seems far greater than "2" even in the worst farming cases. On a related note, dissection of animals for scientific studies is surely worlds more justified than just eviscerating animals you see walking down the street and far less reprehensible, which is a comparable analogy to farming vs fighting in my mind.

esto es malo
Aug 3, 2006

Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

BiggerBoat posted:

And one of The Clash!

Well one of The Clash are worth three of The Ramones so that's about right.

SubponticatePoster
Aug 9, 2004

Every day takes figurin' out all over again how to fuckin' live.
Slippery Tilde

Shbobdb posted:

Re: Cockfighting

I don't really see what is so wrong with it. It is a brutal blood sport, sure. But is it really that much worse than factory farming? I used to go to cockfights when I lived in the Bronx. It was just a thing to do. I eat meat sourced from some pretty loving dark places so it's not like I've got a high horse to ride on.
Factory farming is really lovely, but it at least ostensibly provides nutrition that people require to live at prices the average person can afford. Cockfighting is things dying horrifically merely for amusement and/or monetary gain.

beaten like a losing chickenboxer

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Joementum posted:

Yes, true, it was about "state's rights", specifically the right to raise chickens for fighting, a right that's come under more fire this year than anyone would have guessed!

Jesus Christ.

OK. How about we let rednecks have their cockfights so long as they cook and give the dead chickens to the people who's SNAP benefits were cut? Isn't that what's done in Mexico and Spain with bullfights? The whole thing is gross and stupid (watching animals fight for sport/gambling).

Who in the god drat gently caress wants to watch stupid animals kill each other for sport? Don't we already have MMA, boxing, war, YouTube and Animal Planet? I don't understand cockfighting, but I've never understood horse and dog racing either so chalk me up as big old liberal pussy I guess.

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.

BiggerBoat posted:

Any Republican who doubts climate change should only look at the rising costs of flood insurance, especially in coastal regions. That's the "free market" or whatever speaking loud and clear. You'd think they'd hear it.

Strictly speaking, all that proves is that the companies think enough customers believe in climate change that it warps their demand functions and allows the companies to charge more without losing customers. :colbert:

Of course, this assumes that the insurance market isn't competitive enough, and who would ever postulate that?

Tibeerius
Feb 22, 2007
March Was The First Month Without A U.S. Combat Death In More Than A Decade

Clearly this means Obama has weakened America in the eyes of the world.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Strictly speaking, all that proves is that the companies think enough customers believe in climate change that it warps their demand functions and allows the companies to charge more without losing customers. :colbert:

Maybe, but I think it means they know what's up and I was using it as an example of Republican hypocrisy along of the lines of "let the market decide". Otherwise, if they knew or believed it was bullshit, they'd just sucker people into cheap premiums on flood insurance.

No wait, they'd never do that.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

Tibeerius posted:

March Was The First Month Without A U.S. Combat Death In More Than A Decade

Clearly, this means Obama has weakened America in the eyes of the world.

You know, except for the 22 service men and women who commit suicide every day.

Shbobdb
Dec 16, 2010

by Reene

joeburz posted:

So what point of that slope do you accept harm coming to animals?

Treatment of farm animals for food --1-> animal fighting for entertainment --2-> Animal cruelty for absolute no reason other than psychological isues

While ethical treatment of farm animals is a very grey area, at least it's being done for sustenance rather than gambling or some sick sense of entertainment. We should aim to treat animals better during the farming cycle, but even harshly treated animals are at least trading life for life in a very direct sense, the difference labeled "1" seems far greater than "2" even in the worst farming cases. On a related note, dissection of animals for scientific studies is surely worlds more justified than just eviscerating animals you see walking down the street and far less reprehensible, which is a comparable analogy to farming vs fighting in my mind.

As someone who has done animal research, there is a huge amount of wasted life in that undertaking. Also a metric ton of suffering. Transplanting breast cancer cells into a mouse through rather invasive surgery and watching the tumor grow isn't nice. Sure, we do our best to keep the suffering to a "minimum" but it's still pretty crazy.

But once you've gotten used to killing animals and watching them suffer, you get inured to it pretty quickly. People freaking out about the treatment of animals, to me, is more about alienation from where our food comes from and how we are getting it. Saying that we need it to live isn't true. Our diet could be very easily changed to have much less meat. But we won't do that because we enjoy eating meat. Sustenance isn't what is driving factory farming. From a hedonic perspective, what is the difference between having an animal suffer and die so we can enjoy it as food and having an animal suffer and die so we can enjoy it as sport? It's "the only moral X is my X" all over again.

ReidRansom
Oct 25, 2004


BiggerBoat posted:

Jesus Christ.

OK. How about we let rednecks have their cockfights so long as they cook and give the dead chickens to the people who's SNAP benefits were cut? Isn't that what's done in Mexico and Spain with bullfights? The whole thing is gross and stupid (watching animals fight for sport/gambling).

Who in the god drat gently caress wants to watch stupid animals kill each other for sport? Don't we already have MMA, boxing, war, YouTube and Animal Planet? I don't understand cockfighting, but I've never understood horse and dog racing either so chalk me up as big old liberal pussy I guess.

Cock(and dog)fighting is primarily about gambling, not sport, no matter what the Gamefowl Defense Network would have you believe. That's the draw.

Talmonis
Jun 24, 2012
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

ReidRansom posted:

Cock(and dog)fighting is primarily about gambling, not sport, no matter what the Gamefowl Defense Network would have you believe. That's the draw.

Can't the motherfuckers just play Keno? Poker? Hell, ESPN has like 8 networks. I'm sure they could find a game to bet on at any given hour.

ReidRansom
Oct 25, 2004


e: ^^^ yeah, probably. I'm not saying there's not other, better poo poo they could gamble on, I'm just saying that's why people do it.

zoux posted:

You know, except for the 22 service men and women who commit suicide every day.

Or the occasional killing spree, but I guess that wasn't March.

BUSH 2112
Sep 17, 2012

I lie awake, staring out at the bleakness of Megadon.

Joementum posted:

Glad you asked! The Director of the Gamefowl Defense Network, Michael Devereaux, would be happy to explain.


So, cockfighting is OK, fish fighting is OK, chicken boxing (which is totally not cockfighting) is OK, but dog fighting is bad.

Am I a bad person for agreeing with him, here? What we do to commercial poultry is deplorable, is it really that big of a deal that people raise these animals to fight? And, really, they aren't dogs. Dogs have emotions that in many ways mirror humans, birds don't. I guess I don't really see why it matters in the grand scheme of things.

tbp
Mar 1, 2008

DU WIRST NIEMALS ALLEINE MARSCHIEREN

BUSH 2112 posted:

Am I a bad person for agreeing with him, here? What we do to commercial poultry is deplorable, is it really that big of a deal that people raise these animals to fight? And, really, they aren't dogs. Dogs have emotions that in many ways mirror humans, birds don't. I guess I don't really see why it matters in the grand scheme of things.

Making animals fight for gambling is bad.

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

Rap Record Hoarder posted:

Apparently, the US created and implemented a fake twitter-esque service to foment rebellion in Cuba against Castro and they did it under the guise of "humanitarian outreach" via the USAID. In the big scheme of things this isn't surprising in the least, it's hilarious in a really hosed up way. I mean, this is the stuff conspiracy theorists dream of, something out of a Tom Clancy novel.


http://www.salon.com/2014/04/03/the_secret_is_out_u_s_built_cuban_twitter_to_stir_up_political_unrest/
http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/3/5577254/us-created-cuban-twitter-to-fuel-anti-castro-dissidence-ap
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-26872866

I'm not sure whether this is hilarious or terrifying. If there was a trojan horse fake-Twitter in Cuba then Castro would fall! :bahgawd:

It makes USAID look really, really bad though.

Talmonis
Jun 24, 2012
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

axeil posted:

I'm not sure whether this is hilarious or terrifying. If there was a trojan horse fake-Twitter in Cuba then Castro would fall! :bahgawd:

It makes USAID look really, really bad though.

I have to wonder if the alphabet agencies don't do this poo poo just to justify their budgets. Spend a few million loving around with vaguely defined "enemies", ruining our reputation abroad, creating more enemies. Rinse and repeat. Or is it that I'm just far too cynical?

axeil
Feb 14, 2006

Talmonis posted:

I have to wonder if the alphabet agencies don't do this poo poo just to justify their budgets. Spend a few million loving around with vaguely defined "enemies", ruining our reputation abroad, creating more enemies. Rinse and repeat. Or is it that I'm just far too cynical?

I think the most absurd part of it is that it was directed at Cuba of all places.

esto es malo
Aug 3, 2006

Don't want to end up a cartoon

In a cartoon graveyard

Shbobdb posted:

As someone who has done animal research, there is a huge amount of wasted life in that undertaking. Also a metric ton of suffering. Transplanting breast cancer cells into a mouse through rather invasive surgery and watching the tumor grow isn't nice. Sure, we do our best to keep the suffering to a "minimum" but it's still pretty crazy.

But once you've gotten used to killing animals and watching them suffer, you get inured to it pretty quickly. People freaking out about the treatment of animals, to me, is more about alienation from where our food comes from and how we are getting it. Saying that we need it to live isn't true. Our diet could be very easily changed to have much less meat. But we won't do that because we enjoy eating meat. Sustenance isn't what is driving factory farming. From a hedonic perspective, what is the difference between having an animal suffer and die so we can enjoy it as food and having an animal suffer and die so we can enjoy it as sport? It's "the only moral X is my X" all over again.

Except one X is related to medicine or nutritional value while the other is related to gambling or animal MMA. I understand where you're coming from on the desensitization front but you're essentially arguing that the means are irrelevant if the end result is the same, from which I don't think taking an opposing stance requires moral gymnastics by any means.

Bunleigh
Jun 6, 2005

by exmarx

greatn posted:

A new independent study finds since September 5.4 million people who did not have insurance now have it. Thus study only goes through the beginning of March and DOES NOT include the surge of 3 million exchange sign-ups, also does not include medicaid or under 26ers.

Uninsurance dropped 2.7% in the five months between October and march. Another way to put that is a full 15% of uninsured got health insurance.

So, uh, democrats might actually wanna run on this if the next couple months go well.
This "keep and fix Obamacare" platform Dems are trying to run on right now is the most inept poo poo it's infuriating. I'm from California and the keep and fix bullshit reminds me of the "no on recall, yes on Bustamante" campaign (Bustamante was Grey Davis' Lt. Gov) that was so successful at keeping Schwartzenegger out of office.

How about a campaign like "here are all these things you like. Guess what, these are in Obamacare and you actually have this stuff now because of me! The other guy wants to bring back pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps and kick millions of you off your new health coverage!" Playing defense in politics never loving works at all and I really hope the Dems find their asses soon.

ReidRansom
Oct 25, 2004


axeil posted:

I think the most absurd part of it is that it was directed at Cuba of all places.

That's what has me scratching my head too. Relations with Cuba are at the lowest level of animosity in a half century, we've made slow progress toward reopening proper diplomatic relations, and we go doing this sort of poo poo. Why? Not just because it's dumb and could backfire on you why, but what's the point why.

ReidRansom fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Apr 3, 2014

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PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer

BUSH 2112 posted:

Am I a bad person for agreeing with him, here? What we do to commercial poultry is deplorable, is it really that big of a deal that people raise these animals to fight? And, really, they aren't dogs. Dogs have emotions that in many ways mirror humans, birds don't. I guess I don't really see why it matters in the grand scheme of things.

Yes, you are a bad person for agreeing with him. Slaughtering animals for their nutritional value is a world away from torturing them for shits and giggles.

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