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a!n posted:Sim notable buffs are: The delayed wakeup hurts him a bunch, but what I'm curious about is why they let him (and a few characters) wade in low tier hell instead of making it much more balanced game where everyone could play characters, I mean I can understanding having bad MUs but Sim is one of the ones that has a ton.
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Apr 7, 2014 21:33
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Interstellar Owl posted:I took a look at the Dhalsim changes, and rumor has it they removed the nerfs to U1 and such, but I'm not sure why a lot of characters are getting a ton of buffs and pushing them up past low-middle tier (see Juri and Chun), but Sim gets ignored? I play 2 characters I feel didn't get much love (Sim and Honda)
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Apr 8, 2014 06:46
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Interstellar Owl posted:The delayed wakeup hurts him a bunch.  I think it helps him more than it hurts him (if it hurts him at all). First, it allows him to mix up his own wake-up a bit more which would hopefully allow him to sneak in a teleport or backdash at a timing the opponent didn't expect. Granted, it doesn't help a lot when he's cornered. Second, it shouldn't affect the fireball setups he gets after back throw, ex blast, super and ultra. Only the last three allow you to time meaty fireballs anyway, so just delay the fireball by a bit and you will cover both regular and delayed wake-up. For back throw you can't get a meaty fireball right now so if they delay their wake-up that only gives them less options to deal with it. Third, the setups it does affect are risky anyway but don't become more risky. I'm talking about fwd throw -> IA teleport and sweep -> IA teleport. These are safe against 4f and 3f reversals respectively. No matter how many frames delayed wake-up adds they will still be safe and you can just teleport back out. Fourth, I don't think it will help a lot against U1 setups unless you commit really hard to your mixup, which is easy to avoid and you can time it so it lets you see the opponents wake-up timing before you have to do anything.
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Apr 8, 2014 08:33
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I'm of the opinion that any character like Dhalsim that had trouble with vortex characters will be better off now that delayed getup exists.
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Apr 8, 2014 09:21
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a!n posted:Why? I'm still a new Sim player so bare with me, I didn't really realize that. I still think he could use other buffs IMO.
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Apr 8, 2014 13:47
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Buhbuhj posted:They took away her jump back dive. RIP juri They also nerfed her counter, now she takes white damage like everyone else. I'm kind of bummed about the nerfs but the buffs are fine at least.
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Apr 8, 2014 14:46
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Jack Trades posted:They also nerfed her counter, now she takes white damage like everyone else. I'm kind of bummed about the nerfs but the buffs are fine at least. Look forward to Juri dying from grey damage before flinging herself into the air. 
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Apr 8, 2014 14:56
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Buhbuhj posted:They took away her jump back dive. RIP juri Last build still lets you do jump back j.mp xx dive and raw ex dive.
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Apr 8, 2014 15:05
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Meanwhile, on Rose changelog planet: "Everything you had is now better. End list. Actually, some more recovery on Orbs but that's fine. It's fine". I won't even have to relearn the few things I know about her AND maybe she'll get a meterless combo out of j.mk crossup on most characters! I love it! Also, drat, Rufus ate some harsh nerfs. I also see that T.Hawk is now only -2 on hit after a light Condor Spire. Online's gonna be fuuuuuuun...
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Apr 8, 2014 15:17
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I may be wrong about this, but I feel that you can't quite balance Dhalsim in this game because he'll either be way too good against characters like Ryu or Sagat, or he'll be even with them and have super awful matchups against rushdown/vortex/divekick characters. His whole dynamic is that he is super frustrating to get in on and is at a huge advantage while at range, but once you are in on him he is poo poo. Someone like Ryu or Sagat can still bully him pretty bad once they are in on him, but it's designed pretty much perfectly in these matchups because even if Ryu or Sagat is in on you, you have just enough tools that you can work hard to get them back off you and get back in the game. Against someone like Rufus, Akuma, or Seth, they generally still have to work fairly hard to get in, but they have added options that more "standard" characters don't to close in on you. As Dhalsim you are supposed to play super patient and counter any method they have to get in, but stuff like EX demon flips or changing jump angles mid-air adds to the mental load of stuff you have to counter. Then once they are in, the mixup game is just too much for Dhalsim since he has no reversal and is so weak up close. Against these characters it's way harder up close for Dhalsim than it is against something like Ryu frametraps and throw mixup. The divekicks, command grabs, and vortex stuff is just so free against him. If you gave Dhalsim even a mediocre reversal (and really it would be so goofy if he had one, the only thing I could think of would be like EX yoga flame) he'd be too good against the former group of characters, and he still probably would be less than 5-5 with the rushdown characters anyway. Basically his "thing" of being super good far away and super weak up close only works if he is legit super weak up close. It also would not be fun if you made him shittier far away and less lovely up close, but the existence of super powerful rushdown characters inherently makes him have terrible matchups. angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 15:51
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systran posted:I may be wrong about this, but I feel that you can't quite balance Dhalsim in this game because he'll either be way too good against characters like Ryu or Sagat, or he'll be even with them and have super awful matchups against rushdown/vortex/divekick characters. Yes, you're right. Nobody wants Dhalsim to have a reversal that's not his super. What Dhalsim players are collectively asking for is something that punishes some of the approaching moves he has no defense against. Most of all this means divekicks. Regular anti-airs are comically useless against them. The least bad option is probably b+cr.mp, which doesn't work as an anti-air anywhere else. Even his air normals are bad against them because of terrible priority and because divekicks keep the jump height very low while Sim just keeps floating up. The problem is not that Dhalsim doesn't have enough get-out tools, it's that he doesn't have an answer to some get-in tools. Sure if someone manages to get close to Dhalsim they should beat him up hard, but with a dive kick getting in is just a matter of time. To make matters worse dive kicks are the ultimate corner control tool against Dhalsim as he can't slide under them like he could with regular jumps or other aerial attacks. He pretty much has to land a throw (=the opponent hosed up) or risk something like forward jump -> lk drill which is super unsafe, but beats getting destroyed in the corner. a!n fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Apr 8, 2014 |
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Apr 8, 2014 16:31
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systran posted:I may be wrong about this, but I feel that you can't quite balance Dhalsim in this game because he'll either be way too good against characters like Ryu or Sagat, or he'll be even with them and have super awful matchups against rushdown/vortex/divekick characters. So I guess that means we'll never see Sim win a major? :P
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Apr 8, 2014 16:32
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Interstellar Owl posted:I'm still a new Sim player so bare with me, I didn't really realize that. I still think he could use other buffs IMO. I think trying to balance Sim is just really tricky. They don't want to give him a real reversal because him being weak up close is supposed to be part of the design (Capcom really likes characters being defined by their weaknesses). There's just so many characters in the game now that are designed to get on top of you and stay there and that's hard to deal with sometimes even WITH a great DP, so Sim really suffers in that situation. Next best thing I guess is let him kill at range a little faster, hence putting extra damage on some of his more useful normals, and also buffing EX Yoga Blast so he can deal with close-up airborne enemies a little better. For people approaching on the ground, stand MK hitting twice isn't a total problem solver but it's nice for chars that can approach a little too easily by focus dashing or trying to armor through limbs with ex specials. I'd be ok with them making U1 a little scarier, linger a little longer and/or do more hits (giving him more time to mix you up while it's in front of you or you're blocking it). Making it throw immune so you can't just toss him out of the start up would also probably help but I'm betting Capcom would see that as too close to a real reversal 
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Apr 8, 2014 16:33
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a!n posted:Why? Sigh. I only recently started playing Sim (as early as November or so of last year). I picked him up because he's decidedly the opposite of Ken--each move must be absolutely deliberate, read-focused, and DEAR GOD DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN OR CORNERED. Despite the frustrating wake-up game, he's really fun to play. I do a ton of weird, unsafe, but tricky, things to win that I don't see pros doing (for good reason, I suppose). The best thing about Sim is that he creeps up on you: you think you have him shut out, you're going to easily take the round, then things stop going your Does anyone play Sim on PC? I have only found one out in the wild, and I find that fighting against a character (or playing as one you're fighting against) helps matchup knowledge. Edit: drat, had this window open for a long time before refreshing.
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Apr 8, 2014 16:53
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Prowler posted:Sigh. I only recently started playing Sim (as early as November or so of last year). I picked him up because he's decidedly the opposite of Ken--each move must be absolutely deliberate, read-focused, and DEAR GOD DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN OR CORNERED. Despite the frustrating wake-up game, he's really fun to play. I do a ton of weird, unsafe, but tricky, things to win that I don't see pros doing (for good reason, I suppose). The best thing about Sim is that he creeps up on you: you think you have him shut out, you're going to easily take the round, then things stop going your I play Sim on PC, I don't play on 360 anymore, I'm not very good but if you want my GFWL I can give it to you.
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Apr 8, 2014 16:55
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I was thinking about picking Sim up but he feels way too sluggish every time I try him out. Gootecks may have inspired me to try him again tho, since apparently there's something leading Rose players to Sim and vice-versa.
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Apr 8, 2014 17:16
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How's my boy Gief in Ultra? I guess it really doesn't matter, since you can just pick vanilla with him and take out half of somebody's health with a 0 frame Ultra. Still, grapplers are crazy for balance, doubly so when there's gonna be multiple versions of all of them running around online or in tournaments or whatever.
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Apr 8, 2014 17:50
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Buhbuhj posted:They took away her jump back dive. RIP juri What!? Why? I need that! I'm such a scrub 
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Apr 8, 2014 17:59
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I'm jazzed for Rolento in this, I hope he plays well. Is there an estimated release date for consoles or is it still just "June-ish"? I'm such a tool that I already put money in my XBL account for this in advance.
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Apr 8, 2014 18:02
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PurplieNurplie posted:How's my boy Gief in Ultra? I thought Edition Select was a feature apart from Ranked. It sounds like something that would only make it into tourneys as a side attraction, not the serious competition.
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Apr 8, 2014 20:14
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I keep losing to sims online when I play Makoto what am I doing wrong?
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Apr 8, 2014 23:32
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Buhbuhj posted:They took away her jump back dive. RIP juri Revitalized posted:What!? Why? I need that! I'm bummed out about that but I think it's a good thing 'cos it'll force me to step up my game instead of relying on those b.j dives. EDIT: It's really awesome that they expanded hurtboxes of some linked moves. In USFIV stuff like Cody's and Juri's Super and combos like Juri's j.mp into EX Divekick into Ultra 2 will actually loving connect. Jack Trades fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 02:33
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This here is a very well put together "everything you need to know" type of thing for T. Hawk. Do other characters have something like this? Gootecks made one for Gouken as well which can be found here.
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Apr 9, 2014 04:36
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Foodahn posted:This here is a very well put together "everything you need to know" type of thing for T. Hawk. Do other characters have something like this? Gootecks made one for Gouken as well which can be found here. This owns a lot as a scrubby thawk player.
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Apr 9, 2014 05:04
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Foodahn posted:Do other characters have something like this? magicalmako posted:I keep losing to sims online when I play Makoto what am I doing wrong? Makoto you say? The Rindoukan Bible is a pretty and well-laid out comprehensive guide to Makoto.
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Apr 9, 2014 14:06
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This is really good stuff guys, I had no idea these guides existed. I'll be updating the 2nd post soon with links to the best character guides available for everyone (video or written). The list of these that I know about is pretty short though so keep links like these coming if you got'em so I can link them and give new players a better source of information than the eventhubs guides. I basically have PR Balrog's tutorials, Air's Ryu guide from cross counter, and some FChamp protips for Sim. Plus an old Cody guide from Ryan Hunter that still seems pretty accurate. Anything else people know about would be appreciated if linked!
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Apr 9, 2014 15:30
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Trykt posted:This is really good stuff guys, I had no idea these guides existed. I'll be updating the 2nd post soon with links to the best character guides available for everyone (video or written). The list of these that I know about is pretty short though so keep links like these coming if you got'em so I can link them and give new players a better source of information than the eventhubs guides. I basically have PR Balrog's tutorials, Air's Ryu guide from cross counter, and some FChamp protips for Sim. Plus an old Cody guide from Ryan Hunter that still seems pretty accurate. Anything else people know about would be appreciated if linked! Oh man I could really use that guide for Sim!
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Apr 9, 2014 16:29
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This is the only guide I remember watching, but it's a really good one. It's everything you need to know about Dhalsims Yoga Teleport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOFtg4rSfEs fake edit: There's another one for Abels roll mixup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x08a9WCgrX0
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Apr 9, 2014 16:39
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These videos have a TON of dudley info - combos, setups, safe jumps, oki, etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjvsCnWO9Qw
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Apr 9, 2014 16:48
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How are you supposed to play as Juri against Guile? Or just in general how the gently caress do you beat Guile? I find it almost impossible to get close to him at all. Jump-ins seem to be totally out of the question because Guile has a wide variety of high priority anti-airs. Trying to approach him on the ground using "anti-fireball" moves like Juri's Counter, Cody's Bingo Punch or just Focus Dash just ends up with me eating a f.HP and being knocked back to square one. Winning the fireball wars also seems to be near impossible unless I'm Sagat (and I don't play Sagat). Trying to play defensively as Juri or Rose, chipping at him with my or his own fireballs just ends up with him approaching me instead using Sonic Boom, which is near un-punishable, and his j.HK. I think I have tried everything I could come up with to try to punish his j.HK. Air-to-air moves get interrupted by it unless I'm higher up than him which isn't possible if I'm trying to defend and all the ground-to-air moves seem to get interrupted by it or just trade. I can't seem to manage to punish blocked or whiffed j.HK either without using EX. I tried to look up how Juris manage to win against Guiles in tournaments and every single replay I could find where Juri wins they only manage to win by using her Ultra I and overwhelming Guile but using Ultra I is just outside of my skill range. Normally it wouldn't bother me since Guile isn't very common in Ranked but the dude I play SF against almost every day for some reason decided switch his main from Akuma, against which I used to win like 50% of matches (maybe even a bit more considering that I manage to land a 1-frame-link combo on him every other round while he has still no idea how to do them), to Guile and now I just lose all friggin' the time, no matter which character I play. Please, educate the newbie. Because I've banging my head against this wall for several weeks now and I'm getting nowhere on my own.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:48
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Jack Trades posted:I tried to look up how Juris manage to win against Guiles in tournaments and every single replay I could find where Juri wins they only manage to win by using her Ultra I and overwhelming Guile but using Ultra I is just outside of my skill range. Changing that sounds like one place to start.
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Apr 9, 2014 16:57
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That match-up just sucks for Juri, I'm pretty certain. You might want to learn some FSE mixups and pressure because the only way you can win it is by taking full advantage of every single fuckup Guile makes. EDIT: As Rose, tho, it's not THAT hard of a time. Be patient, absorb a ton of fireballs or reflect them upwards if your friend is one of those "Sonic Boom means I get free pressure, right?" type of rear end in a top hat Guiles. Your mid-range normals are better than Guile's and you win the fireball war if you have more meter. So stay back and see if he moves forward or not. If he's TOO careful, you'll win the war of attrition every time. If he's too predictable, you'll get to advance on him by jumping or sliding at the right ranges. Just be careful with cr.MP into Spiral, Guile can Flash Kick thru it. Dias fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Apr 9, 2014 |
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Apr 9, 2014 17:05
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Foodahn posted:Do other characters have something like this? There's this PDF for Ibuki
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Apr 9, 2014 17:06
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Why does PC have to wait until August?
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Apr 9, 2014 17:08
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Jack Trades posted:How are you supposed to play as Juri against Guile? What anti airs are you trying? Depending on range and reaction time fs.mk, cr.hp, nj.mk, and jb.hk are all great anti airs assuming cr.mp isn't working.
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Apr 9, 2014 17:37
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:Makoto you say? The Rindoukan Bible is a pretty and well-laid out comprehensive guide to Makoto. Man, that guide rules. I'd like to get as many of these as I can.
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Apr 9, 2014 18:38
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I Play Winner has a really good Street Fighter wiki. http://iplaywinner.com/superstreetfighter4 Notable differences from the SRK/Eventhubs guides are that it has a db of videos where you can watch matchups for a selected character.
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Apr 9, 2014 19:11
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GeoffTheHero actually has a solid short Cammy tutorial in his channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr8lJ286-oc He also has an unblockable guide for Cammy but it's not working in Ultra so gently caress it.
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Apr 9, 2014 19:28
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Jack Trades posted:How are you supposed to play as Juri against Guile? Or just in general how the gently caress do you beat Guile? I find it almost impossible to get close to him at all. Juri vs. Guile is a super fun matchup that might be disadvantaged for Juri but contains a lot of old school street fighter no bullshit fundamentals. First off, it sounds like your approach to the match might be off. The matchup is not 'Juri tries to get in while Guile tries to keep her out.' Your focus (and Guile's) should be on getting a life lead and maintaining that life lead. The easiest way to do this is to win the fireball war. At full screen you throw fireballs faster and build more meter than Guile which means the first thing you need to establish is that you are not some wet behind the ears rushdown Juri with ants in her pants who needs to get in, but you are in fact a cold-blooded motherfucker who is willing to sit at full screen storing and throwing fireballs until the heat death of the goddamn universe. It may take quite a display of endurance to prove to Guile that you are Mohammad and he is the mountain, but eventually you will earn his respect and force Guile to either hope you gently caress up and eat a sonic boom (don't do that!), win off ex fireballs (don't get hit by these either), or try to move in closer. At 3/4 screen and closer, the fireball war suddenly becomes a lot more active because Guile's fast and medium sonic booms can slip in and hit if you do a bad store or release while your low fireball and ex low fireball can now go under his sonic booms and hit him if he throws at a bad time. Again, your goal is to establish that you are comfortable playing at this range, that you are not fiending to get in but are in fact willing to play and win the entire loving match from this range, 12 chip damage at a time. Don't be afraid to trade by throwing low fireball. If you need to, you can always move back to a more favorable range (although you're going to find yourself in the corner pretty fast if you aren't careful). Extremely predictable sonic boom patterns can sometimes be punished with divekick, but do so sparingly since you're basically just guessing he's going to throw another sonic boom. Eventually, one of you is either going to get impatient or get far enough down in life that they have to start trying to get in by jumping or walking forward, ideally you want this to be him, not you, but poo poo happens. As you've noticed, it's pretty hard to jump in on a Guile who is sitting there waiting for you jump. Likewise, as you get closer, Sonic Boom gets real good and your fireball becomes pretty lovely. You should get used to walking forward and blocking (too bad Juri's walk speed is so lovely, oh well). s.hk is sorta like a fireball at this range. f+mk can also be useful to annoy him, it has a ton of range (and startup, so be careful). But mostly this is just going to come down to fundamentals. Hit him with the pokes and the frame traps. If he flash kicks a lot, bait it. If he blocks a lot, dash in and throw. If he's still throwing sonic booms, sweep or jump. Once you have the knockdown, get the life lead and back off (or kill him if that's your thing). If it's Guile that's been forced to rush you down, life becomes a whole lot easier. Walk back, anti-air with s.mk or c.mp, throw some fireballs if he's not going to jump, and use your meter on ex low fireball. If he throws a sonic boom and jumps, you can sometimes do lp counter to cross him up as he lands. This is pretty much the only time you should be using lp counter in the round, although mp can be useful in fireball wars. Oh yeah, once you've established that you are totes willing to play the fireball war, you can always just go back to all your normal Juri staples such as: Jump at Guile; get Guile to the corner; kill him. *Disclaimer: Decently good Guiles who know the matchup will know the spacing to win the fireball war and have the fundamentals to crush you with his superior normals, so good luck against them. **If you want to blow peoples minds, learn to dash under Guile's fireballs and approach by walking forward and dashing like you're Neo from the matrix.
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Apr 9, 2014 19:32
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Trykt posted:Okay so I did a really messy kind of safejump tutorial about Ryu: http://www.twitch.tv/trykt/b/517629832 Have you thought of how you'd deal with delayed wake up in Ultra? Since they updated it to display "Technical" when they input the delay, I'm assuming that will show up during the sweep animation, hopefully giving you enough time to decide on doing the normal safe jump, and if not, maybe some sort of button sequence to deal with that 11f offset?
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Apr 9, 2014 19:32
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