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Its almost as if people had different opinions.
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Apr 27, 2014 13:43
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We've already provided a response to your criticisms.quote:This is a good general criticism, I think, and one that I had never really considered, but I don't know how applicable it is to video games, least of all an MMO. In a medium where story is very important, I think your criticism would hold water, a la The Walking Dead where zombies are typically made to be whatever the story needs them to be, which is lazy and inconsistent. In an MMO, though, the story is secondary to basically everything else, and really only, I think, provides a basic explanation for why things are the way they are. You can't provide much more story than that without coercing players into following certain paths or obeying arbitrary restrictions, though it would perhaps be interesting to do so on various occasions. Try for something more interesting than "Hurr, do not like thing."
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Apr 27, 2014 23:07
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The mention that your corpse could become reanimated and walk around with all your loot is an interesting dynamic. I wonder if said loot will be visible on the zombie or if it requires you to look at the zombie's inventory. Because zombie hunting for cool spoils would be pretty fun with a group of friends. Another money item could be the ability to buy prebuilt structures and plots of land.
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Apr 28, 2014 00:33
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Diran posted:Then why are you posting here? I think you have me confused with someone else!!! This game actually looks like it has the potential to be p sweet like all other SOE games, and I look forward to it.
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Apr 28, 2014 14:01
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You're right sorry about that, meant for the other guy.
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Apr 28, 2014 18:25
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I do like the server voting idea and hope it's successful enough to be brought over to their other games. I'm sure EQ could get enough votes for a new progression or classic RZ rule set server.
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Apr 28, 2014 21:39
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Reminder that tomorrow is the next big livestream day for H1Z1. I don't know how much they'll be streaming, but I know things are supposed to be happening all day. I'm guessing that a lot more information will become available. I'm also thinking that once this ends up on Steam, we'll want to setup a thread outside of the MMO subforum since this is hardly an MMO in the usual sense.
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Apr 29, 2014 02:39
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Reminder that tomorrow is the next big livestream day for H1Z1. I don't know how much they'll be streaming, but I know things are supposed to be happening all day. I'm guessing that a lot more information will become available. I'm overly curious about why you think an SOE title would ever appear on Steam?
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Apr 29, 2014 06:54
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Psyker posted:I'm overly curious about why you think an SOE title would ever appear on Steam? Uh, I'm 99% sure they said they were releasing it on Steam, just as they already released Planetside 2.
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Apr 29, 2014 07:01
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Psyker posted:I'm overly curious about why you think an SOE title would ever appear on Steam? Why wouldn't it? SOE has several games on Steam.
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Apr 29, 2014 07:03
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Psyker posted:I'm overly curious about why you think an SOE title would ever appear on Steam? I am guessing everyone is thinking it because they specifically said they would. Just a guess though.
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Apr 29, 2014 07:06
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Psyker posted:I'm overly curious about why you think an SOE title would ever appear on Steam? SoE has already put several games on steam. Better than the SonyLauncher thing they tried.
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Apr 29, 2014 07:06
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Seriously, look at Steam. Almost all of their titles are on there.
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Apr 29, 2014 13:17
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Hey, has anybody mentioned that SOE has some of their games on Steam yet?  Looking forward to the live stream today. The last one was a good teaser, but they really didn't get in depth with anything. "Here's some zombies, now we're gonna go over here to look at this, now we're building a shack, thanks for coming out everybody we'll see you later"
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Apr 29, 2014 15:42
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Lucifer, I expect an effort post of epic proportions to appease those of us slaving for the man today.
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Apr 29, 2014 15:58
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LuciferMorningstar posted:We've already provided a response to your criticisms. All the games where zombies are the enemy are stupid, zombies are stupid and boring. Its the suvival part that is fun and interesting. The game would be improved a million times if zombies weren't the only enemy. The best PC zombie games essentially don't just have zombies, but have mutant zombies which make them a million times better. Thinking of L4D and State of Decay. In those games normal zombies are pretty boring, its the boss mutant zombies that are fun and interesting. I don't see how implementing zombies is any easier "in theory" from implementing any other type of video game enemy besides the fact that zombies are used and pretty much the least imaginative enemy that exists in video games. I mean FPS zombies are essentially the rat of RPGs in the sense that they are the first and easiest enemy you encounter in so many different FPSs in some form or anything that they are just completely boring.
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Apr 29, 2014 16:53
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Reason posted:Its the suvival part that is fun and interesting. Which is precisely why nobody important cares that they're zombies. They exist solely to provide mild entertainment between shootouts with other people.
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Apr 29, 2014 16:58
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Azurrat posted:Which is precisely why nobody important cares that they're zombies. They exist solely to provide mild entertainment between shootouts with other people. But then whats the point? If you were to think for a second about creating a fun game you could add in some tougher mutant zombie enemies that would encourage people to work together and then you bring in the question of asking someone for help instead of just shooting them in the head every time you see someone new which is what most survival games devolve into anyways. There is no reason to work with others because there is no challenge besides other people that also almost never work with others. But you throw in say some Tanks from L4D guarding some nice items and now people can't just go in and kill them all alone. Or in the case of almost every zombie survival game in existence so far, just run around them and grab the items and run away. There's a reason most zombie games don't just have zombies. Its because zombies are stupid and boring. Even one of the first zombie survival games, Resident Evil didn't just have zombies. In games like Dead Rising, the real enemies aren't the zombies they are the crazies. At the very least there should be NPC scavenger groups going around loving poo poo up. My main concern is with comparison to WarZ and DayZ, you could go hours without seeing another human player and all you see is zombies and poo poo items you don't need and that is really, really boring. Doorknob Slobber fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 17:06
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Maybe you should play a different type of game, because this looks like it's not for you.  edit: Hey guys, I think zombie games are dumb and boring, LET ME ROLL UP INTO A THREAD ABOUT A ZOMBIE GAME AND poo poo MY OPINION EVERYWHERE 
Frank Horrigan fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 17:10
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Azurrat posted:Maybe you should play a different type of game, because this looks like it's not for you. Hey guys lets roll into a thread and talk about how a game thats in its beginning stages and probably looking for suggestions on how to make it fun might be improved by looking at other zombies games and seeing what new ideas we could bring to the genre thats full of lovely games.
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Apr 29, 2014 17:19
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You're crying about pretty much every aspect of the "survival MMO" genre. In absolute seriousness, these games are not for you, play something else. Maybe Minecraft is more up your alley.  If you want to make actual suggestions, go to https://www.reddit.com/r/h1z1 and post them there.
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Apr 29, 2014 17:22
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I didn't know Open World Survival Games had to be Zombies. Like I missed that memo where the gaming gods came together and said "All Open World Survival Games will have zombies and if you don't like it tough poo poo mother fucker"
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Apr 29, 2014 17:43
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BadLlama posted:I didn't know Open World Survival Games had to be Zombies. Like I missed that memo where the gaming gods came together and said "All Open World Survival Games will have zombies and if you don't like it tough poo poo mother fucker" You seem to be missing the part where they decided it was going to be a zombie game before it was even announced. But don't worry, I'm sure they'll throw out the entire loving game and remake it just for you, snowflake. Without sarcasm: This is already a zombie game. That's not going to change. That ship sailed before anybody even knew they were making a survival game. You are championing a lost cause, complain about zombies in another thread. Frank Horrigan fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 18:09
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Dark Helmut posted:Lucifer, I expect an effort post of epic proportions to appease those of us slaving for the man today. The essay gods demand tribute. I'd post that, but I don't think you want to read it. Azurrat posted:Maybe you should play a different type of game, because this looks like it's not for you. He doesn't have a bad point. Based on the available evidence, it's hard to have faith that zombies will be properly implemented. Moreover, some people don't want to have to give serious consideration to zombies, because that gets in the way of Murder Simulator 2014. Talking about it now doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense, though, because both sides of the "debate" have fair points, and we won't know where things stand until we all have a chance to try things out. E: Hahaha this stream is kind of amusing. Black guy who looks like The Walking Dead's Bob talking about graphic design for zombies. Holy poo poo there are real live women there. No this is seriously the best. Some dev just got attacked by a bunch of zombies so he literally flew away into a field. LuciferMorningstar fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 18:12
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LuciferMorningstar posted:He doesn't have a bad point. Based on the available evidence, it's hard to have faith that zombies will be properly implemented. Moreover, some people don't want to have to give serious consideration to zombies, because that gets in the way of Murder Simulator 2014. Talking about it now doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense, though, because both sides of the "debate" have fair points, and we won't know where things stand until we all have a chance to try things out. His point seems to be that there's not enough jolly cooperation in these games, and that a more robust PVE system is needed. Based on my personal experience in these games, all that adding "boss" type zombies to loot drops will accomplish is making sure that only the primary group on the server will have access to end-game poo poo. The result of which is that they'll run around murdering everybody with reckless abandon because nobody is capable of stopping them. This will continue until everybody on the server throws up their hands and quits playing. These are ultimately PVP games, people are GOING TO KILL EACH OTHER no matter what stupid little distraction you throw around item spawns. Making spawns harder to get to just means that the coordinated players will dominate even more. Citation: Every Rust server ever.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:15
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Azurrat posted:You seem to be missing the part where they decided it was going to be a zombie game before it was even announced. You are right, I have never seen SOE do a complete 180 on design decisions for games they are creating or are live. Nope not ever, ever, ever. This game is hopefully going to be primarily about surviving other players, it would be nice if the pve that will be poo poo anyways was at least less bland than generic zombie shooter repeat number 100.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:18
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BadLlama posted:You are right, I have never seen SOE do a complete 180 on design decisions for games they are creating or are live. Nope not ever, ever, ever. You're absolutely right, I forgot about that time they changed the name, genre, and concept of a game right before releasing it, throwing away nearly a year worth of work on assets, code, and engine tweaks, not to mention abandoning all of the trademarks they filed and scrapping the domains they registered, along with the work they put into their website and ARG. Oh wait that's never happened because you're just being a dumbass.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:24
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Azurrat posted:You're absolutely right, I forgot about that time they changed the name, genre, and concept of a game right before releasing it, throwing away nearly a year worth of work on assets, code, and engine tweaks, not to mention abandoning all of the trademarks they filed and scrapping the domains they registered, along with the work they put into their website and ARG. Oh wait that's never happened because you're just being a dumbass. Yeah they would totally have to do all that if they were to go yeah zombies are kind of lame here are bunch of other things in addition to zombie that you can run into. Your armor is blinding me right now bro.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:26
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BadLlama posted:Yeah they would totally have to do all that if they were to go yeah zombies are kind of lame here are bunch of other things in addition to zombie that you can run into. Your armor is blinding me right now bro. BadLlama posted:You are right, I have never seen SOE do a complete 180 on design decisions for games they are creating or are live. Nope not ever, ever, ever. Throwing in some extra zombie types = A COMPLETE 180 ON DESIGN DECISIONS
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Apr 29, 2014 18:28
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I hope you guys are watching the stream while slapfighting because they just showed some dudes office and he had something like a thousand transformer/Gundam things in there.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:28
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LuciferMorningstar posted:I hope you guys are watching the stream while slapfighting because they just showed some dudes office and he had something like a thousand transformer/Gundam things in there. Probably BFR's for Planetside. (This stream is boring as poo poo) BadLlama fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 18:30
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LuciferMorningstar posted:I hope you guys are watching the stream while slapfighting because they just showed some dudes office and he had something like a thousand transformer/Gundam things in there. If the stream was more interesting, we probably wouldn't be slapfighting. There's been some mildly amusing stuff, but I'm getting the impression that it's just a fluff piece. "We've got nothing new to show you, so we're going to show you around the office for a bit and hope you don't realize that all of the new information we're sharing right now can be condensed into a single paragraph."
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Apr 29, 2014 18:31
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Azurrat posted:If the stream was more interesting, we probably wouldn't be slapfighting. There's been some mildly amusing stuff, but I'm getting the impression that it's just a fluff piece.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:35
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Coming from the WarZ world where we had no idea who was working on our game or where the hell they came from, knowing the developers are actual English-speaking, mouth-breathing regular nerd-types, I feel soooo much better already. Straight nerdy salt and pepper-type sitting down. Nerdy guy that "works out" complete w/ tight graphic T. Nerdy sideburns guy. Nerdy Star Wars hat guy. Larger female nerd with large boobs for fanboys to dream about. Really, really fat nerdy guy. In short, this is what an actual productive studio looks like. Whether or not zombies play a primary or secondary role, I feel like this group will provide us with a playable game...
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Apr 29, 2014 18:51
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It looks like they've got quite a ways to go with content. The core features are in and at least minimally functional, which is good, since tweaking is easier than designing and implementing. That said, I'm not convinced the map is as large as SOE is trying to convince us it is. Not yet, at least. I'm starting to note landmarks, and given that they only have ~30 people playtesting and manage to find one another, we're a long way from multi-hundred player servers. Based on some of their earlier interviews, they're still knee-deep in designing houses and whatnot. That stuff all has to get placed, and then loot spawns have to be configured, and so on and so forth. I'm thinking that's going to consume a lot of man-hours, so it will be interesting to see how far they make it when early access happens. Of course, they could just be screwing with us and showing us a prior build. It's hard to say. I also think they may be overestimating the whole base building thing. Without instanced areas, once your group logs for the night, there's no guarantee that anything will be left when you get back the next evening. Why bother wasting time getting resources to build up a fort when it's all but guaranteed to get raided or occupied in your absence?
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Apr 29, 2014 20:19
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LuciferMorningstar posted:I also think they may be overestimating the whole base building thing. Without instanced areas, once your group logs for the night, there's no guarantee that anything will be left when you get back the next evening. Why bother wasting time getting resources to build up a fort when it's all but guaranteed to get raided or occupied in your absence? Because if you die, you drop everything on you? In Rust at least, how hidden a base is plays a huge role in how likely it is to get raided overnight.
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Apr 29, 2014 20:22
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Azurrat posted:Because if you die, you drop everything on you? In Rust at least, how hidden a base is plays a huge role in how likely it is to get raided overnight. I haven't played Rust, so maybe there's some evidence there that suggests that bases are worth it, but in the other survival games I've played, the strategy is generally to roll in a group and rely on group members to hold onto the loot of the dead until they run back to the group. Once everyone is logged, that loot is guaranteed to be safe. I'm wholly unconvinced that a base that can be burned down or occupied with impunity is meaningful in any context outside of temporarily holing up to shoot mans. E: Wow, I see only see one obvious goon in the people that showed up at the offices. Whoops, never mind. Two. LuciferMorningstar fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 20:30
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Not to turn this into a Rust thread, but in Rust your body drops to the ground when you log out. If someone comes along and kills your "sleeper" while you're offline, they get all your poo poo and the next time you log in you wake up naked and in the middle of nowhere. Bases work well in Rust, which is what SOE seems to be taking its cues from in that regard. Bases in Rust are very raidable, but it takes a shitload of resources to breach a single wall/door, so intelligent base design can make it prohibitively expensive for anybody to steal your poo poo.
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Apr 29, 2014 20:49
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I guess they're letting people that showed up play some? I haven't been paying much attention but some neckbeard is running around doing stuff. I only remark on this because watching this dude play for a bit really only highlights how terrible the developers seem to be at playing their own game. I had assumed the melee system was less forgiving or harder to use, since the devs kept getting smacked around when fighting zombies, but this guy is having no problems whatsoever. I also think that bases in Rust might be more viable because the terrain and whatnot, from my understanding, allow more player interaction with digging and the like. Seems like base building will be more limited in H1Z1, which translates to people having an easier time both finding bases and breaking into them.
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Apr 29, 2014 21:48
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There's no terrain deformation/interaction in Rust at all.
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Apr 29, 2014 22:22
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