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How the heck do melee stats work? I rolled a UC OpAs of Chei for the hell of it, expecting to splat a floor or two after temple, but instead I steamrolled everything through Lair. This octopode was commonly one-shotting blink frogs at 11 UC skill, killing elephant packs with almost no damage taken, and ignoring stealth in favor of shouting and killing everything. This feels a hundred times more effective than my previous Chei melee attempts, most of which were M&F. Does non-Tm UC really just benefit from stats that much?
Miracon fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 01:54
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I don't know how much constriction is contributing to your success, but constriction depends heavily on strength.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:57
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It's been a couple pages since distortion-talk. My suggested carebear solution: - If an enemy has the potential to spawn with Banishment in their spell list, even if they spawn without it... OR - If an enemy wields a weapon of distortion or chaos... ... put a "space distorts" warning in the flavor text in chat. We've already established that branded weapons are -flavorwise- brandy all the time. Just help a brother out. I'm still gonna get abyssed plenty cause I'm a sloppy rear end in a top hat. code:
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Aug 27, 2014 02:11
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Actually Unarmed Combat has a base damage of: 3 + UC skill. Any stat benefit would be as applicable to weapons as they would to your fists. Tollymain is right in that strength plays a role in constriction, but the learndb entry is unsurprisingly vague as to the formula: Chance to constrict depends on the attacker's size and strength/HD versus the defender's size and EV. The chance to escape depends on size and number of escape attempts, versus the constrictor's strength or HD. Edit: Then there's this for the stat benefit, if it still holds true in 0.15 code:Sage Grimm fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 02:12
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Constriction is very good for creatures small enough to be affected, but this octopode is thrashing everything regardless of size. My past experience with UC has always been that it felt unreliably inaccurate, but this bucks the trend. As of clearing Orc, I have 7 AC 22 EV and 21 SH, and I'm wearing an amulet of guardian spirit with 3 rings of magical power, one of which is the ring of Qazlal's Wrath {rF+ rC++ MP+9 Dex+1}. I'm looking forward to finding out what can monster can punch through through defenses and 103 HP + 53 MP.
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Aug 27, 2014 02:39
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I've wanted to play an octopode melee character but have no idea how you would reliably get through the early game as one.
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Aug 27, 2014 02:58
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Internet Kraken posted:I've wanted to play an octopode melee character but have no idea how you would reliably get through the early game as one. I've had a couple good recent runs with octopode skalds of dithmenos. I start with short blades and get stabby with it. Spectral weapon & shadow attacks make for lots of distraction stabs, and you can branch into long blades for more killing power later on.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:11
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On a related note I died to an octopode crusher recently. They are actually quite strong for an early Shoals enemy and I was quite surprised at the damage done with their sumo toss. I think someone should edit little luchador masks on to them as a warning.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:18
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Personal lesson of the day: Skeletal warriors carrying stones are horrifying. It would have been nice if Lair had spawned before I got to a floor crawling in the things.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:22
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The real issue is why isn't there a way for player octopodes to throw poo poo around.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:22
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spacejung posted:On a related note I died to an octopode crusher recently. They are actually quite strong for an early Shoals enemy and I was quite surprised at the damage done with their sumo toss. I think someone should edit little luchador masks on to them as a warning. They must be extremely rare in early shoals, because they're absurdly powerful. My last win I had to lugonu-banish one in depths because I couldn't beat ti in a straight fight. (The fact they have crappy MR helps though).
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Aug 27, 2014 03:34
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Internet Kraken posted:I've wanted to play an octopode melee character but have no idea how you would reliably get through the early game as one. One of the tricks is to make sure you don't give the enemy any free hits by never stepping into melee range; make them come to you (except polearm/caster enemies, but hopefully you got some Dodging first, right?) Armored fighters can handle a couple of hits, but octo-fu is the very definition of 'The Best Defense...' since they are a flailing hurricane of tentacles and murder... that dies from a single halberd-strike. EV is your friend, and Statue Form is amazing for all its drawbacks since you can just plod along and pulverize everything. Octopodes of Trog/Chei are hilarious with constriction, by the way. It takes several different pages of the wiki to put this together, but every melee attack has a 66% chance to trigger a grab (can miss) unless the enemy is already constricted, in which case 100% to squeeze (which can't miss). Damage from both the grab and squeeze damage scales linearly with strength. I can't tell if slaying bonus affects the damage but having the grab hit more often definitely helps. Too bad Blade Hands only affects two tentacles, since the 'off-hand' attack rarely triggers without high UC skill. silentsnack fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 03:38
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silentsnack posted:One of the tricks is to make sure you don't give the enemy any free hits by never stepping into melee range; make them come to you (except polearm/caster enemies, but hopefully you got some Dodging first, right?) Armored fighters can handle a couple of hits, but octo-fu is the very definition of 'The Best Defense...' since they are a flailing hurricane of tentacles and murder... that dies from a single halberd-strike. EV is your friend, and Statue Form is amazing for all its drawbacks since you can just plod along and pulverize everything.   
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Aug 27, 2014 03:40
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TZer0 posted:I finally managed to get a Beogh win. If you want the polytheist badge, you need only be worshipping the god on the way out, so you could just abandon a useful god for beogh on the way up with the orb. If you actually want to worship one god the whole way through though...well, happy xomming.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:52
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Aug 27, 2014 04:23
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Internet Kraken posted:I've wanted to play an octopode melee character but have no idea how you would reliably get through the early game as one. I started this one as an Assassin for the free blowgun. Poison needle spam wrecks almost everything pre-temple, especially with the ranged revamp where you can get extra-powerful needles on sleeping monsters. silentsnack posted:and Statue Form is amazing for all its drawbacks since you can just plod along and pulverize everything.
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Aug 27, 2014 04:25
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XOM'S WILD RIDE NEVER ENDS!!!!   This actually makes me wonder if it would be viable to gamble with Xom for a bunch of melee mutations, then ditch him for Xin so you get mutation immunity and don't lose them. Not gonna bother trying it now because I want to win with Xom.
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Aug 27, 2014 04:38
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spacejung posted:On a related note I died to an octopode crusher recently. They are actually quite strong for an early Shoals enemy and I was quite surprised at the damage done with their sumo toss. I think someone should edit little luchador masks on to them as a warning. They're primarily a Depths enemy; they only appear in Shoals in certain vault(s?), as a highly out-of-depth enemy. Don't gently caress with crushers in shoals!
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Aug 27, 2014 04:47
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Internet Kraken posted:I've wanted to play an octopode melee character but have no idea how you would reliably get through the early game as one. If you want to worship Chei, being a monk mitigates the period of time where Chei is an useless jerk and you get a good headstart on your UC skill. Before you reach the temple you just have to make do with whatever you find. Any decent bolt attack from a wand, an early buckler/shield (definitely train shields asap), a decent ring, etc. all boost your survival rate considerably (remember to use any berserk/haste potions beforehand!)
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Aug 27, 2014 06:44
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So apparently if you corrupt wucad mu's wizlab it can lock you in with undiggable walls (maybe corruption shouldn't spawn undiggable walls?) And I'm a formicid  Is there any way to salvage my game/force it to crash so I can go back to when I entered? Playing offline, 0.14
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Aug 27, 2014 08:42
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Meunkin posted:So apparently if you corrupt wucad mu's wizlab it can lock you in with undiggable walls (maybe corruption shouldn't spawn undiggable walls?) Ctrl+Shift+Esc, kill the crawl.exe process in task manager. It should reload you at the beginning of the level, unless you saved after that.
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Aug 27, 2014 08:50
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Couple of pages late I guess, but is it really true that Great Slings can spawn with Electricity as a brand? I thought that wasn't a legit ranged weapon brand. I might actually gamble with a Brand Weapon scroll on them if that's the case...
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Aug 27, 2014 10:30
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Internet Kraken posted:XOM'S WILD RIDE NEVER ENDS!!!! Ditch Xom immediately and start following Zin. Seriously, you don't have a single dangerous mutation there, the misshapen body probably doesn't do much for a race without a body slot and deterioration 1 isn't that bad. The Ultimate Lifeform gargoyle got its start that way. e: I know you want to win with Xom but gently caress that
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Aug 27, 2014 11:53
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Meunkin posted:So apparently if you corrupt wucad mu's wizlab it can lock you in with undiggable walls (maybe corruption shouldn't spawn undiggable walls?) You can use disintegration, bolt of fire, fireball, bolt of lightning, or shatter to "dig" through the trees. Hopefully you have a spell, because running on wands would take a LOT of charges. Theoretically you could banish yourself and go abyss scumming for the items and/or exp necessary for the above. You wouldn't be able to exit the abyss until you were ready though, since Lugonu doesn't give piety while in the abyss, meaning only one chance to enter here and inevitable excommunication if you spent far too long in the abyss. Realistically, if Tarezax's suggestion doesn't work, it would be a lot easier and faster to just upload your save to the Mantis bug tracker and get a dev to edit your save.
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Aug 27, 2014 14:05
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Sage Grimm posted:Note that for the x > 11 formula, each STR point will provide a chance for a mere 0.051% increase to your base damage. That seems totally underwhelming. I thought at some point in the past, some effort was made to rebalance stats so that Int wasn't the only useful one?
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Aug 27, 2014 15:03
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Sage Grimm posted:Actually Unarmed Combat has a base damage of: 3 + UC skill. Any stat benefit would be as applicable to weapons as they would to your fists. 1/39 is ~0.05128, which is 5.128% not 0.05128% Adding one side to a die increases the expected value of the die by 0.5 so each point of strength increases your damage bye 2.56% on average. Intelligence falls off as a percentage increase (of raw spell power) but it's still a greater percentage increase until you hit 39 intelligence. Luckily there are no stepdowns for damage that I'm aware of. kaschei fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 15:06
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Goncyn posted:That seems totally underwhelming. I thought at some point in the past, some effort was made to rebalance stats so that Int wasn't the only useful one? But strength... yeah, I think its old "improvement" was that they made it effect weight a lot more but now that we're in weightless...
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Aug 27, 2014 16:31
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Davzz posted:Dex had its hard cap of 16 removed at some point of time and I think it's useful to put points in it now especially for Enchanter archetypes. Nah, they increased the damage bonus(doubled from earlier IIRC, could be wrong here), and they made armour no longer have a hard cutoff where strength stops helping. Additional strength now always reduces your encumbrance, which helps casting and melee accuracy in heavy armour.
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Aug 27, 2014 16:38
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Speaking of mutations, but octopodes should get that cool chance to disarm mutation that jiyva gives at xl13 or something. How awesome would that be.
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Aug 27, 2014 16:38
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Jeffrey posted:Nah, they increased the damage bonus(doubled from earlier IIRC, could be wrong here), and they made armour no longer have a hard cutoff where strength stops helping. Additional strength now always reduces your encumbrance, which helps casting and melee accuracy in heavy armour. They made it so that more strength is always better, but they also made it so that each point of strength tends to do less, and the value of your strength at mitigating ER is actually reduced by armour skill... which makes a kind of sense, but doesn't help strength be useful. Before each point of strength reduced 1 whole EVP up to a hard cap. Now strength only gives -1EVP in plate at 0 armour up to 16 strength; at 15 armour skill, only up to 10. If you happen to have high strength, heavy armour is better for you than before (especially if you are a caster, for whom less EVP is more valuable than increased EV on a point-for-point basis), but it doesn't exactly reward investment into strength for the sake of wearing heavy armour when the lowest dex soft cap for EV is 36.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:17
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Speaking of stat changes, where should my points go into as a UC Octopode of Chei? I know constriction uses strength and I have a large shield so I'm just dumping extra points into strength. With my current OpMo I aimed for clearing Elf:3 since my equipment sucked, then I proceed to get banished to the Abyss immediately. In my desperation for finding better equipment I decide to go for the abyssal rune since I found a trove earlier that requires it. Thankfully even Abyss:3 is pretty reasonable as a Chei worshipper thanks to weedgod slowing down the Abyss significantly so I manage to snatch it after slouching the Abyssal rune vault and get out. Cheibriados rules.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:36
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Intelligence so that you can cast the spells that make stuff at the edge of your LOS fall down, dex so that stuff misses you more often (but they never write) up to 36 or 48 or something crazy, str when you want to feel like a man while parading naked but bejeweled through the dungeon. edit: honestly it almost doesn't matter where you put your stats as a cheibro
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Aug 27, 2014 17:54
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kaschei posted:They made it so that more strength is always better, but they also made it so that each point of strength tends to do less, and the value of your strength at mitigating ER is actually reduced by armour skill... which makes a kind of sense, but doesn't help strength be useful. Ahh, fair enough, I didn't know armour skill actually made each marginal point of strength less valuable. It might still be useful to put points in it if you have a bad armour aptitude and still want to wear heavy armour, ie a centaur, but yeah that's pretty harsh. According to https://loom.shalott.org/learndb.html#dodging there is a stepdown for dex->EV after 24. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 18:01
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Miracon posted:You can use disintegration, bolt of fire, fireball, bolt of lightning, or shatter to "dig" through the trees. Hopefully you have a spell, because running on wands would take a LOT of charges. For whatever reason, these are magical trees that you can't set on fire/destroy, first thing I tried, then I was sad. Force quit worked! Screw you Wucad Mu, just going to win on my ant and be done with it.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:04
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Another victory! My list of unwon races/backgrounds/gods is getting shorter and shorter. 
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Aug 27, 2014 18:49
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kaschei posted:Intelligence so that you can cast the spells that make stuff at the edge of your LOS fall down, dex so that stuff misses you more often (but they never write) up to 36 or 48 or something crazy, str when you want to feel like a man while parading naked but bejeweled through the dungeon. An octopus becoming a MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION never stops being amusing One day I'll do 15 rune with this, it's not that bad once you have statue form, but I imagine necromutation would probably be good to have for extended even if you're predominantly melee. I got an elemental staff this game too so I probably could have branched out into being a crazy strong omniresistant caster. Too lazy I guess v  v
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Aug 27, 2014 19:25
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Necro form is redundant if you have statue form and full negative resist. Torment is barely an issue with that much damage reduction.
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Aug 27, 2014 19:42
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Internet Kraken posted:Necro form is redundant if you have statue form and full negative resist. Torment is barely an issue with that much damage reduction. Necro form has the benefit of not ever needing to eat anything ever and also being not as slow, though I guess the slow is off-set by being Extra Tough and hitting harder.
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Aug 27, 2014 19:45
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is statue form chat going to be an every-other-page thing, now? plz no
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Aug 27, 2014 19:56
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Distortion Form
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Aug 27, 2014 19:59
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