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Am I late for the Artificer talk? I play a lot of them for fun. Power-level wise I think it's middle of the line, although with the recent Fighter and Gladiator changes I think its a relative "nerf." If the starting Short Sword or Leather Armor had some minor enchantments it would be nice. You know how they say to play an Assassin properly, you play it like a Gladiator that just so happens to have a worse weapon but with access to curare? Artificer's sort of the same way, except even more skewed. Don't sink any points into Evocations in the early game, treat it like how caster backgrounds start with Stealth - nice bonus to have, but you have bigger priorities. What you want to do is immediately find a consistent method of killing enemies, whether it's a spellbook with Sting in it or a really big honking weapon. You have three panic buttons to use when you're in trouble. Flame's not that good but if you run into an early adder or an ogre and need to soften things up, there you have it. Enslavement is your ticket to beating up Gnoll Packs, just enslave the one with the biggest weapon and watch him turn on his friends. Can also be used on Orc packs but if you fail a couple of times, it can be risky so prepare to run. Wand of Random Effects is a good "big nuke" panic button. You want to use them offensively since there are more negative wand effects than positive, but it's less useful on things with resistances because it means that you might get an effect that they're immune to. Try to stay close to the staircase though in case you accidentally Haste or Invis something nasty. Run back up and go down a different way. And here's something that's probably going to seem non-intuitive but don't obsess over needing to join Nemelex. If you're skilling properly like I told you to, you'll only maybe like what, 3/4 levels over a completely different background in Evocations? You need to build up some piety before Nem starts giving you stuff anyway, which is plenty of time to raise Evocations once that happens. Just join the first god that's likely to give you the power boost that you need to survive the early levels. You see an altar of Trog? Congratulations, you're now a Berserker with some starting wands. See Fedhas? Back your mushroom friends up with whatever you got. You probably don't want to go Ashenzari, just don't pidgeonhole yourself into "Nem or bust" Edit: Scroll Identificaiton thing that doesn't apply anymore. Whatever happened to the other "trunk" page? That one hasn't been updated in like 3 months. Davzz fucked around with this message at 14:57 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 14:16
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Brannock posted:What version are you playing Davzz? ?identify and ?EA now both self-identify before prompting you to select an item.
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May 11, 2014 14:56
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DG has had a bit of a curve, I think. I guess stats have been improved quite a bit recently if people are no longer considering them in the "challenge race" department. In the early dark days of Crawl, religions were so annoying and tedious that DG was a legit choice because you are freed from the hassle of conducts like "Remember to pray before killing the right enemies, but not before slaughtering or your god will be angry!" in exchange for a couple of stat points.
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May 12, 2014 15:48
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Does anyone know where I can find detailed information on some of the trunk changes? There's one particular one that caught my eye in the simplified trunk changelog. "Wanderers have tweaked starting kits with generally better items." I would be interested to know the details of how Wanderers kits are generated now. I've tested it out and it gave me some really interesting starts. For some reason, potions of lignification are really common as a starting item, which is... strange. And I think I once started with an unidentified potion of might, which is either my faulty memory or a bug. Once I got both a bow and a crossbow with ammunition for each. Like a double Hunter. Overall they seem much better and has more overall stuff than other backgrounds (I think?) so it's a concept of "you have a lot of stuff, which might not synergize, but you gotta use them all to survive anyway" compared to the old version which is like "inferior to most backgrounds, except in 1% chance where you start with Sting memorized and a trident or quarterstaff"
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May 14, 2014 15:45
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Whoa, this even has excerpts from the code, nice.
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May 14, 2014 15:54
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Are there any automated "Pacification" calculators around? There's this chart thing but I think it would be nice to have a tool where you can put in your Invocations skill level and get a approximate percentage chance of pacification back for some common "must pacify!" threats like Orc Priests.
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May 16, 2014 10:06
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Hmm, that Wendingo race suggestion gives me an idea, but I think it would be amusing to have a large race that somehow also has a very high Stealth aptitude. If only I knew how to code in races myself.quote:EDIT: Have those Wanderer changes gone through? The ones that apparently improve their chances of not getting mutually exclusive stuff like a bow AND crossbow, or two different melee weapons, etc? I don't like cheesing Wanderer spawns when I try them out, but last time I tried to start one I kept getting stupid bullshit and it felt like a waste of spawn slots half the time. Also you still do get dumb configurations often enough that if you want something consistent you might as well play a different class. Looking through the code, so far I think the biggest Wanderer spawn problem in terms of starting rolls is... 1) Rolling with "Stealth" as a priority, which starts you with like a +2/+2 dagger or nets, which has the same issue as Assassin starts really, in that you can't really do Stealth play without magic books or super lucky needle drops... uh, and I don't think Wanderer can even spawn with Blowgun/Needles. Don't know how to fix this because it's an issue with magic-less stab builds in general. 2) "Magic" starts are super swingy because sometimes you get like 5 levels in Spellcasting + Ice Magic and Freeze which allows you to just sleepwalk through the early game and the other half of the time you get stupid stuff like starting points in Hexes, no books and Apportation. Fighter-type Wanderer spawns tend to be pretty decent and consistent IMO. That being said, sometimes they roll with multiple weapons which is pretty dumb since (insert Crawl and weapon differentiation paragraph here) but maybe in the future when each weapon has a good and interesting special ability which supports raising of multiple weapon skills it might make more sense. PleasingFungus posted:disclaimer about artificers not being evocations-primary backgrounds but just a background that starts with a few limited-use 'I win' buttons and that can end up playing in many different ways depending on what you find, etc, etc
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May 17, 2014 08:24
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Someone asked for tips on how to play some "lesser used" backgrounds? Here's Healer. Healers are actually pretty darn easy as a start. Just play like you're a spellcaster but with only 2 abilities (well, at the start anyway) 1) Heal yourself 2) Essentially instantly kill a target with Smite targeting with a percentage chance based off how high your Invocations skill level is (also known as "Pacification") and the target's Max Hit Points. Note that depending on the type on monster, some are easier to pacify than others. Animals are the easiest and almost always a success even with lesser healing. Next up is members of your own race, which makes Hill Orcs very nice in this regard between their high Inv aptitude and how common early Orcs are. Humanoid races that don't share your race and then it's stuff like Demons and intelligent Undead. You basically just want to pacify just about everything at the start that's not immune to it, except for maybe imps, which you should run away from instead. Don't try to pacify OODs or uniques with Lesser Healing either, you probably want to pack Greater Healing for that. Semi-recently, they nerfed Pacification by making insects immune to them, which I don't really understand the logic (I guess for hive mind insects with no intelligence like bees, but why the heck are spiders and scorpions inherently immune?) But whatever, my point is that eventually you're going to have to branch out, so keep a look-out for a good branch-off point like any good branded weapons or spellbooks etc. What seems to be intended to be the weakness of Healers which will become very obvious within moments of play is Hunger. Pacification is VERY hungering. One thing that stops you from pacifying absolutely everything that isn't immune is the hunger cost can get ruinous. This means that races like Troll or Kobolds that have a much easier diet have a unique synergy with the Healer class, but as long as you don't play a Spriggan, "normal" diet should be fine. If you don't want to "luck" out on having to find a weapon, consider playing a race with good Unarmed potential like Minotaur, Gargoyle and Troll, which offers you branching power right from the word "go." Most religions tend to have a breakpoint where you want to stop training Invocations but note that Pacification doesn't really have that point. Train it high enough and you can pacify Ancient Liches or Greater Mummies and I can't tell you how useful that ability is. Of course, if you want to just use your deity for free Heal Wounds potion then you can aim lower than that. Davzz fucked around with this message at 10:42 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 10:36
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Mr. Wednesday posted:I stopped playing healers in rage when I pacified a black mamba in a corridor and it proceeded to wall me in and hit me over and over again despite being pacified. That being said, a pacified enemy attacks everyone though (which is a strange meaning of the word "pacify"), so it's actually good against pack monsters in a corridor. They usually attack their teammates on the way out. You lose the XP but I rather have safety than the extra XP I suppose.
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May 19, 2014 15:22
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I think the Large Rocks thing was the biggest Ogre "nerf" if you look at it that way. Ogres had a lot of super tiny buffs since their first revamp though (back when two races were combined to one) But for some reason devs still want Ogres to be a challenge race, or at least that's what their official statement is.
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May 20, 2014 10:49
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Not a lot of people play AE but I think it's mostly because they're tedious rather than their power level. You have to try to get to the walls in a specific manner for every enemy that isn't completely trivial and that adds a lot to the playtime as opposed to a bunch of classes which can mostly tab or shift-tab
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May 20, 2014 16:01
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cock hero flux posted:Alternatively go nuts in the opposite direction and convert to chei when you find it
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May 22, 2014 17:47
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I need some help with my Ogre. I'm worshipping Dithmenos and due to a surprise combination early drop of a +5 AC ring and +5 EV ring I managed to live long enough until now and even enchanted myself a +5/+5 Vampiric Giant Spiked Club. I imagine the shoe's gonna drop at some point though because Ogres. Dump I have some minor splattering of spells but so far my spellbooks variety doesn't seem great. Does anyone think any of these spellbooks have anything to encourage me to raise Hexes (or some other spell school) as an Ogre? Booklist posted:Book of Beasts Stoat posted:Wait... if you are a fighter... you don't just pump str? I have done that for like 5 years of playing this game oh god If you're casting any magic at all, put everything into INT. If you're relying on dodging for damage mitigation, get Dex to at least 16 which is a "soft cap" breakpoint, which maximizes all your gains from the dodging skill. Going higher still helps, especially with the small races which can turn them almost invincible super dodgers. Generally you pump STR if you have issues carrying stuff (usually ranged weapons ammo). It also kind of helps with wearing Heavy Armor but I generally think that STR is weaker than your other two choices if those aren't the case.
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May 23, 2014 11:05
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Heithinn Grasida posted:How did you get vampiric GSC? Did you get super-lucky with a brand weapon scroll?
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May 23, 2014 13:05
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I've lost a couple of characters to the new Vaults:5 now. What's a good way of breaking through the start? I've heard that the immolation trick actually doesn't really work because it's too noisy. Luring them slowly up and down doesn't seem to work because as soon as one of those "lock doors" enemies show up I'm pretty screwed.
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May 24, 2014 12:30
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If I may make a suggestion, please give Summoner a dagger as part of their starting kit. My reasonings: 1) It makes the very early game before you pick a non-cursed weapon off the floor a lot less tedious if I can melee enemies with my summons with something other than my fists (well, unless I'm playing a race with UC muts) while not really being that huge of a power boost in the long run. 2) Indirect hint to newbies that you're expected to fight alongside your summons rather than just hide behind a giant wall of them since you start with a weapon. 3) Semi-synergizes with the Summons distracting the enemy letting you get stabs in. Moving on: I've been trying out Throwing (and Nemelex but that's another story) ever since the ranged combat overhaul. It's... a little weird to me. It's like, if my Tomahawks and Javs hit, they take off a huge chunk of HP from my target, but they usually miss, which is still an improvement over old Throwing. I would kind of preferred it to be a bit more consistent (hits more, less damage) but maybe this is just personal taste. I also can't really tell the difference between damage from Tomahawks and Javs, I'm sure Javs are better but since HP is a health bar it's hard to tell.
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Jun 5, 2014 12:19
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My Minotaur of Nemelex just died on Vaults 5, after doing just about everything else in the dungeon so I can get maximal EXP so as to break my streak of dying at said area. I think I could have survived because everywhere else was kind of a cakewalk as a Minotaur including a long trip to the Abyss, but some Ogre Mage got a lucky paralyze in and after that it was a quick trip to the afterlife being beaten up by a bunch of high level monsters that got recalled. I know, I know, "wear MR equipment" and I usually do but... somehow zero sources of MR spawned during the entire game, so ultra bad luck I guess. Nemelex stuff... well, I can't say I can really provide an analysis. My gut feeling just tells me I like the old one better. One new card I hate is the mass polymorph one, which states that it's supposed to "polymorph monsters into weaker forms" but I don't think it has ever worked out in my favor once, including a part in Shoals where something got turned into a Titan and a Siren prevented me from running away, which I probably wouldn't have survived if I wasn't a Minotaur. I really should have explored the deck of escape better. I mostly used Decks of Wars only and mostly just trying to get as many Summons as possible because... uh, old habits? One thing that annoys me - there are two cards that open up your inventory/weapon screen, Illusion and... I forgot but it casts Tukima Dance. Sometimes I get confused as to exactly which card just got drawn (especially if you use Deal 4) but I can't go back to the log to check, so I had to cancel just to play it safe in case I end up without a weapon in my hand (Illusion lets you keep equipping and weapon and Dance would make it fly into the air, you see).
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Jun 5, 2014 16:52
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One more comment on Nemelex: Why do enemies pick up Decks? As far as I know, they don't use them, and since Nemelex gives you a whole bunch of them, it would be nice if random goblins don't pick them off the ground when I inevitably drop them so I can come back later and collect them instead of going "great, gotta run around the map for a bit to kill whoever picked it up"
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Jun 6, 2014 03:36
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After splatting way too many Summoners, I think I find I'm happier off either playing Ice Elementalists for Ice Beast or Wizards for Summon Imps if I want a background that starts with summons.
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Jun 7, 2014 04:27
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Question for Lugonu/Abyssal Knight players: If I use Corrupt on a level, do I have to wait around on the level for my neutral Abyss creatures to kill stuff on the level or can I go upstairs and chill while pressing 5 a bunch of times while eating some rations and then go back downstairs? Basically I want to know if time freezes while you're not on a level, I guess.
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Jun 8, 2014 15:12
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Is the Sword of Zonguldrok any good compared to a +4/+4 Demon Blade of Freezing? Now that weight limit is gone I can carry around like 20 rations and never starve because of the sword zombification effect, I think... I guess maybe there's piety to think about but seems like the drawbacks are manageable in exchange for more power.
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Jun 9, 2014 12:32
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Whee, I won a Vine Stalker Abyssal Knight so that's a two for two on the "stuff I've never won" scale. http://pastebin.com/FSMd6WKK I don't really like Vine Stalkers, I think not being able to use Heal Wounds is a huge disadvantage especially if you get really unlucky and have an Iron Shot take off 3/4 of your HP or something. I spent quite a bit of this game being at near death and escaping by the skin of my teeth and I'm surprised I even made it. Maybe the ridiculously good artifact equipment spawns contribute to that. Also I guess with no item destruction, it means I'm free to carry around all my Blink scrolls instead of only 2 and 3 and it made me more free with my consumable usage? Come to think of it, I'm not quite sure what the use of stuff like Wand of Teleportation is now. Used to be it was an indestructible source of port and thus a really valuable item but now you can carry all 20-30 scrolls of teleport with you anyway. I guess Wands can be used under Silence and that's the niche? Not too hot on the Vine Stalkers race. Some germ of a good concept here, but mostly it's Human + No Heal Wound + ability to humiliate Ancient Liches with Aux attacks as long as they don't gut you first with their spells. Give them some distinct Aptitudes please. Also Christ, when did Zot become such a slog to get through? Were Draconians packs buffed at some point? Since my Magic Mapping didn't get burned up I use my usual tactic of just Mapping every level and diving.
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Jun 9, 2014 15:30
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SALT CURES HAM posted:It kind of seems like picking a gladiator and converting to Trog is a better idea than picking a berserker now. Is that more or less accurate? I suppose starting with Hunter or Artificer so that you can have ranged options as soon as you find Trog's altar is a legit choice tradeoff, but in terms of making D2-Lair super easy, you really can't beat Berserkers.
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Jun 10, 2014 11:17
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Jeffrey posted:but I wanted more starting str than it gave me. Did they buff Strength in any way when they removed weight limits from the game?
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Jun 10, 2014 16:19
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Brannock posted:Removing weight was not a nerf to Strength, it was a buff to Dex and Int.
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Jun 10, 2014 16:44
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What's the direct implication of the removal of Anti-cross-training for magic anyway? I imagine its more on the Earth/Air side because they both have nice utility spells and it's kind of redundant to sink a ton of EXP into Fire/Ice for big nukes (so the choice is between biggest Nuke (Fire) or Utility (Ice) And on the side note, is it just me of are slings not so good after the ranged combat revamp? They used to carry my character through the early game if I find an early sling + bullets but now... well, seems like I get more use out of Tomahawks?
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Jun 11, 2014 14:45
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PleasingFungus posted:Slings are basically ranged falchions now, yes. (They're not very good.)
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Jun 11, 2014 16:49
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silentsnack posted:Can just put the argument to rest with an unrand short blade that looks like a pair of knives: counts as a two-handed weapon, two hits per attack (with 2x delay) and a penalty to accuracy. I think the concept here might in fact work if it wasn't treated as a joke.
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Jun 11, 2014 17:13
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Playing a Beogh Orc after the ctrl-t change. I kind of wish I wasn't so terrible at keeping my orcs alive. That and I wish I didn't get like 2-3 hydra spawns per lair level in this particular run, which might contribute to that.
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Jun 13, 2014 16:56
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How long can I run around with a Hand Axe of Electrocution for? It's at Min-Delay currently but I'm not particularly getting many good Axe drops...
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Jun 13, 2014 17:48
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I didn't even realize Throwing Weapons use the Unarmed Combat rules, especially being penalized by Heavy Armor. No wonder they're so strong. I just noticed in Trunk about the removal of Cross-Training and introduction or Weapon Enhancer cross-skills. How does this work out anyway? So far I've only ever focused on 1 weapon and it looks like I get 1/5 of my skill to the old cross-trained skill, but what happens if I train those other skills? How does it mathematically work out compared to the old cross-training system? Better XP for melee guys? Worse?
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Jun 16, 2014 10:07
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RoboCicero posted:Someone said strength is important to reach mindelay as well as maximizing damage returns, but only up to a point that scales with the enchantment on the bow/crossbow. There was also something about str/dex weighting on bows and crossbows, but I don't remember the specifics. I believe the new version just uses mostly the same rules as melee weapons where every 2 levels of skill reduces delay by 0.1 and all that.
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Jun 17, 2014 02:10
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I would take Heavy Armor with Centaurs. Deformed Body only affects the armor AC, not the AC gains from the armour skill, so with enough Armour skill it's basically only roughly around a 20% or so deduction to your AC.
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Jun 17, 2014 13:11
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I've used Condensation Shield on like, my Troll IE who can't afford to split into too many magic branches and CS being 1 school only means I can focus on just pumping one school. For most other IEs? Yeah, I wouldn't recommend using it, it's not great.
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Jun 17, 2014 17:25
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LorrdErnie posted:Another sprint win! This time I finally beat Arena of Blood! Kind of interesting how it took me 3 hours total to win it but the winning run only clocked 5 minutes of time. It was quite the accelerated learning process which mostly goes: - "Oh, eventually I can take a couple of hits from Orcs if I'm a high enough level. I thought this was like Dante Must Die mode where one hit from anything kills you." - Apparently walls in certain positions will stop cleave, which inevitably ends up with you getting splatted by a Meat Lord. - "Where the hell did the boss spawn?" Guess I should go try the others. Red Sonja is annoying me a bit because it seems like the difficulty of all the enemies are way pumped up compared to your strength. When the heck did Sonja dodge like 90% of your attacks?
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Jun 18, 2014 10:31
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BigFactory posted:Ok, so the way throwing works in trunk makes Shoals basically unplayable without rMsl. Don't know if that was part of the plan or not. I didn't even realize that monsters apparently follow the same rules for ranged combat though. Do they even have skill values? I always though they sort of "cheated", which is why a Scythe is so good in Sigmund's hands but really lovely if you ever try to use it yourself.
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Jun 18, 2014 14:33
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Weird Linesprint bug (that's the name of the last one on the list right?) just happened to me where my game crashed, and then loading it up again put me in a "this never happened" new situation with very low HP/MP in between two packs of line monsters that respawned. Where I promptly died. Probably had to do with me using Step From Time but man what a lame end to a promising run.
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Jun 19, 2014 08:35
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Stoat posted:Can someone explain training weapon skill tactics on fighters to me? I always thought it was "pump it up alongside fighting really high" but then I read some guides and they said you only need (for example) M&F at ~12 for min delay on a demon whip. If you're a hybrid that mostly focuses on spell-blasting but uses your weapon to deal with chaff, you can leave your weapon skill at min-delay... But if you're a combat-wombat fighter, eventually you'll want to turn it back on because you'll still get accuracy and damage bonus from raising your skill and you need those bonuses to take on end-game threats. The reason people say "stop at min-delay first" is that because of the exponential skill raising costs, you don't want to have 20 in a weapon skill while all of your other skills are at anemic levels when you can something more well rounded like say, 15 in your weapon skill and 8-10 in all your utility skills. This assumes that reaching min-delay as a first priority is reasonable for the weapon you're holding to prioritize it first though. If you find an Executioner Axe, do not attempt to prioritize raising Axes to level 26! quote:Also what is the strategic point of no return for swapping? If I have M&F at 10 then find the sickest axe in history, am I too committed to swap? Generally speaking, don't switch weapon types for really small benefits. Only do it if you find a top-end weapon of a certain type and you really need the damage jump, or if you find a super powerful artifact with tons of resists or something.
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Jun 19, 2014 11:40
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I don't think the new cross-training is that great. But I didn't really do the math. And yes, it IS affected by aptitude. Basically, when you spend points in 1 weapon skill that used to cross-train with others, the related skills get 20% and this is calculated based on the amount of EXP you have pumped in rather than your skill level. If you pumped in 10000 XP into M&F, then all the related skills will be calculated as if they had 2000 XP invested into them. So basically, don't expect to pump like 20 levels of Mace and Flail as an Ogre and then expect to get super high bonuses in Polearms and Axes because they'll be calculated on EXP. I have currently only tested stuff out with 1 weapon pumped so far. I'm not sure if they all contribute together. edit: Oh yeah, might as well Wizard mode it. Race: Ogre Actual Skill: 10 M&F, 0 everything else. Final Skill: 10 M&F, 2.3 Axes, 2.8 Staves Actual Skill: 10 M&F, 10 Staves. Final Skill: 11.6 M&F, 10.4 Staves. Actual Skill 10 M&F, 10 Axes, 0 Staves. Final Skill: 12.2 M&F, 10.3 Axes, 5.6 Polearms, 2.8 Staves edit 2: Maybe someone who's good at math can debunk this, but I think my conclusion is that this system is a nerf to Short Blades/Long Blades dual-training, but it's a buff to the sort of emergency "Hmm, gotta kill this Hydra, but I trained Axes and the only flaming weapons I have lying around are Polearms, guess 20% EXP is still better than 0 weapon skill" situations Davzz fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 16:01
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| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 19:22 |
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amuayse posted:Man, human is so confusing to play. Compared to something like... I dunno, the Undead races or Octopodes, Humans aren't really high on the complexity scale for me.
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Jun 19, 2014 17:22
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