Crawl 0.14: You feel energized by your suffering!

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apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Anyone familiar with sprint maps? I've never tried sprint map IV before (Fedhas' Mad Dash) and it feels ridiculously hard in the trunk version. The only thing I've figured out is that fire elementalists make everything before Agnes/Demonic Crawler room a cakewalk, but from there it's a gamble to get a powerful enough spell from Sif Muna to plow through the spriggan gauntlet. The furthest I've gotten is when I had magma bolt to set trees on fire and Orb of destruction, so I managed to kill the enchantress.

The map might be outdated though, since you get a lot of royal jelly drops but they seem to be nerfed nutrition-wise in the latest version.. making it so all your gold is spent on food pretty much.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 21:17

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 20:59

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Jeffrey posted:

Sprint IV seems really hard and I never really got into it. Supposedly it has custom enemies later on, like intelligent plants that cast spells.

I really like Pit Sprint, it is paced well and very doable, but tough. I haven't beaten it yet but I got close, qaz with 27 invo is really strong in sprint.

I like the concept of Sprint IV, but it feels like I'm missing something or you rely too much on RNG to get the spells you need. As far as melee goes, Berserkers do poorly in the Spriggan gauntlet, maybe Okawaru could work?

I cleared Pit Sprint with a Gargoyle, went from Trog to Makhleb (literally just for health on kill). Took me over 2 hours though, not as much of a sprint as I thought :v:

You could probably do casters to much greater effect since you get so much food.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2014 21:40

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Fedhas' Mad Dash done :toot:

quote:

Dungeon Sprint DCSS version 0.15-a0-2306-g3eeb555 (webtiles) character file.

285911 bananaken the Destroyer (level 13, 47/47 HPs)
Began as a Felid Fire Elementalist on July 29, 2014.
Was the Champion of Sif Muna.
Escaped with the Orb!
The game lasted 01:00:36 (7753 turns).

bananaken the Destroyer (Felid Fire Elementalist) Turns: 7753, Time: 01:00:36

HP 47/47 AC 3 Str 4 XL: 13 Next: 28%
MP 30/38 EV 25 Int 22 God: Sif Muna [******]
Gold 16 SH 0 Dex 16 Spells: 12 memorised, 9 levels left
Lives: 1, deaths: 3

You escaped.
You worshipped Sif Muna.
Sif Muna was exalted by your worship.
You were full.

You visited 1 branch
You collected 394 gold pieces.
You spent 378 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Comestibles
a - a royal jelly
p - 2 meat rations
Scrolls
i - 2 scrolls of blinking
j - 2 scrolls of recharging {unknown}
w - a scroll of remove curse {unknown}
Jewellery
h - a ring of invisibility (left paw)
Potions
d - 2 potions of curing
e - 2 potions of heal wounds
g - 3 potions of magic
Books
[A Bunch of Books]
Miscellaneous
u - a lamp of fire

Skills:
+ Level 10.2 Dodging
- Level 2.6 Stealth
+ Level 18.1 Spellcasting
* Level 20.1 Conjurations
- Level 13.3 Fire Magic
- Level 5.0 Invocations
+ Level 15.0 Evocations

FeFE of Sif Muna is basically the only caster that made sense for this map. The fire school of spells let you clear the first half of the dungeon by itself. You need to see invisible for ghost moths and you need to be mobile (Felids are faster than average, and the jump attack acts as a semi-controlled blink in some tight spots), and you need to be able to train Conjurations up in time to cast OoD reliably by the time you reach the Spriggan gauntlet; Sif usually gives it to you by the time you're there. I got lucky by getting a lamp of fire early on, but there's a bunch of spots that spawn rare items, so the likelihood of running into a lamp of fire/phial of floods/fan of gales is pretty high.

Spriggan Druids are ridiculously cheesy in this map, and not only do you have to vaporize them the moment you see them, you have to burn all the trees down to minimize the risks of getting slapped to death by tree trunks. Even then, they might summon permanent enemies off-screen the moment you engage, sometimes ghost moths, which you also need to kill with extreme prejudice (they can't see invisible at least).

I had 4 potions of magic when I grabbed the Orb of Zot, so barring a really unlucky Pand Lord spawn I could *probably* blast through everything. I got lucky at the end though, no Executioners/Lichs/Brimstone Fiends spawned which can all easily end the run if they spawn in a bad spot.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2014 18:06

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Vine Stalkers are really good! :stare:

quote:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15-a0-2372-gf1ab215 (webtiles) character file.

1746934 bananaken the Slayer (level 27, 169/169 HPs)
Began as a Vine Stalker Assassin on July 31, 2014.
Was the Champion of Ashenzari.
Escaped with the Orb
... and 3 runes!

The game lasted 06:45:27 (68535 turns).

bananaken the Slayer (Vine Stalker Assassin) Turns: 68535, Time: 06:45:27

HP 169/169 AC 46 Str 23 XL: 27
MP 42/42 EV 6 Int 22 God: Ashenzari [******]
Gold 3387 SH 18 Dex 22 Spells: 7 memorised, 24 levels left

rFire + . . SeeInvis + L - +9 quick blade (freeze) (curse)
rCold + + . Clarity + X - +3 gold dragon armour (curse)
rNeg + . . rCorr . W - +2 shield (curse)
rPois + rRot + p - +2 helmet (curse)
rElec . Spirit + G - +3 cloak of Unatam {Slay+4}
SustAb . Warding . T - +2 pair of gloves "Heorchuf" {+Fly Str+4}
rMut + Stasis . h - +2 pair of boots (curse)
Gourm . u - amulet of resist mutation
MR ++++. s - cursed ring "Smaofaobe" {Contam +Rage rC+ rN+ Dex+2 Int+4 SInv}
V - ring "Divov" {Int+3 Slay+5}

I considered switching to long blades until I got a +5 quick blade thanks to a spriggan defender, and an extra +9 slaying from jewelry. You just poke everything to death at that point. Even Hell Sentinels and Pand Lords were going down fast. I would have switched gods and went for extended but I was kind of lazy.

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/bananaken/morgue-bananaken-20140731-205316.txt

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 22:05

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

10-rune sprint complete, got all 10 runes:

code:

 Dungeon Sprint DCSS version 0.16-a0-25-g33eb9e9 (webtiles) character file.

43027890 bananaken the Archmage (level 19, 166/166 HPs)
             Began as a Deep Elf Fire Elementalist on Aug 3, 2014.
             Was the Champion of Sif Muna.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 10 runes!
             
             The game lasted 03:53:30 (14784 turns).

bananaken the Archmage (DEFE)                      Turns: 14784, Time: 03:53:30

HP 166/166       AC 21     Str  4 (5)  XL: 19   Next: 91%
MP  50/50        EV 35     Int 34      God: Sif Muna [******]
Gold 2206        SH 20     Dex 22      Spells: 12 memorised,  2 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis .     L - +6 blowgun of Circular Logic {speed, rElec rF+}
rCold  + + +     Clarity  +     B - +2 robe {rC+ rF+}
rNeg   + + +     rCorr    .     z - +4 shield "Moicza Ree" {Slay+5}
rPois  +         rRot     +     R - +2 hat {MR+}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     n - +2 cloak of the Ditch-Digger {Dex+4 Int+2}
SustAb .         Warding  .     M - +0 pair of gloves of Greater Demons {rC+ Dex+3}
rMut   .         NoTele   +     x - +2 pair of boots {run}
Gourm  .                        Z - amulet "Iptawneg" {Clar rF+}
MR     +++..                    I - ring of wizardry
                                Q - ring "Grach" {Int+3 Slay+1 Stlth+}

@: lich-form, studying Throwing, deflect missiles, quick, extremely resistant to
hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: large bone plates 1, blurry vision 1, high mp 1, robust 1
a: End Transformation, Channel Energy, Forget Spell, Renounce Religion
0: Orb of Zot
}: 10/10 runes: decaying, barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy,
bone, demonic

...

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Ring of Flames        Chrm/Fire      #######...   1%          7    N/A
b - Fire Storm            Conj/Fire      ########..   3%          9    N/A
c - Spellforged Servitor  Conj/Summ      #######...   1%          7    N/A
d - Lehudib's Crystal Sp  Conj/Erth      ########..   1%          8    N/A
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      ########..   0%          5    N/A
f - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          1%          7    N/A
g - Haste                 Chrm           #######.     1%          6    N/A
h - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..   1%          7    N/A
i - Necromutation         Trmt/Necr      ########..   12%         8    N/A
j - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ######....   9%          6    N/A
k - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    N/A
l - Flight                Chrm/Air       ######....   1%          3    N/A

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/bananaken/morgue-bananaken-20140803-234706.txt

Sif Muna's usually pretty generous with spells, so you can get delayed fireball/ring of flames before you even enter the Lair area. Once you get Fire Storm you can just drop tactical nukes on everything (carefully since the map is kinda cramped). I managed to get book gifts containing Necromutation and even Death's Door, but I never had to resort to using DD. Lich form is incredibly useful though, no hunger and torment immunity makes the extended areas a lot easier. :getin:

This seems to be the no.1 score on Akrasiac, maybe people don't play sprint maps often?

EDIT: nvm I'm retarded, fixed it

apple fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Aug 4, 2014

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 01:08

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Haifisch posted:

Yeah, Sprint isn't very popular for whatever reason. My guess for why is partially that your userpage doesn't acknowledge sprint games in any way, and partially that it's really easy to cheese certain sprints. (Want to break crawl in half? Do zigsprint with Qazlal!)

Yeah, zigsprint just seems more of an easy way to try ideas out without straight up using wizard mode. The hardest one for me seems to be Fedhas' Mad Dash, while 10-rune sprint can also be pretty difficult to get all 10 runes.

They're all pretty fun, though not surprisingly standard games have the most replayability.

Davzz posted:

Ideally they're kind of meant to be a "compressed" version of Crawl, in a certain sense, but the big problem is that a lot of them are basically puzzles with very little viable solutions where you die over and over while you figure out, and not only that but they're also LUCK-based puzzles where you got to do things like melee starting enemies as an unsuitable character so you can save your consumables for later enemies because they don't spawn as often as they do in an "actual" game.

I feel the later Sprints are at least much more interesting than the early ones because they're essentially "mini-games using the Crawl engine" like Arena of Blood.

While it's true you're funneled into using specific backgrounds to do certain sprints because they're more optimal, it's fun to find alternate ways of doing them. I thought the Fedhas sprint wasn't viable unless you're doing some kind fire elementalist, but I had an idea with an octopode assassin and it worked like a charm. I have no idea how you'd do all runes in the 10-rune challenge without ring of flames and firestorm though, one of the runes basically scream "you better be a fire elementalist for this part!"

apple fucked around with this message at 04:54 on Aug 4, 2014

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 04:46

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

LogicNinja posted:

I don't get the Fedhas sprint at all, there's just so much praying that Okhlobs miss you, and sometimes they don't, invisibility or no.

It seems as long as you don't get in melee range, they don't retaliate while you're invisible. The first oklob plant is pretty brutal though, so you're better off running past it (though it's hard not to wake it up with non-stealth characters). Unfortunately their behavior while you're invisible means without a strong enough ranged attack you're not taking them out safely unless you stab them while they're asleep, which limits your options.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 11:13

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

BigFactory posted:

What am I missing about Fedhas' Mad Dash? It's so stupid.

As a felid fire elementalist, my goal was to worship Sif and grab bolt of fire or magma, delayed fireball and orb of destruction. Evocation items like lamp of fire/phial of floods can make things easier, though not strictly necessary. You kinda have to know where some of the monsters are to take them out safely, but that's sprint for you.

Felids can see invis which is huge for dealing with ghost moths, and becoming invisible lets you take them out without risking the MP drain. Once you have a bolt spell that can set trees on fire, take your time and use it to clear the corridor of trees as you progress, which will make the area much more manageable. Having orb of destruction for that area is crucial if you didn't get a lamp of fire/phial of floods earlier. The rest is just mashing orb of destruction as much as needed while making sure you don't run out of food/MP.

EDIT: Oh yeah, you'll run into a spriggan rider with a storm bow. Use your blink scroll to get into melee range before he shoots you because otherwise he will one-shot you.

apple fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Aug 5, 2014

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 00:59

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

legoman727 posted:

I just went a SpEn with Dithmangos and pumped Stealth and Evo to abuse the invis ring you get.

...and then I got one shotted a room away from the exit by a pan lord spawning with Glaciate.

How do you keep the spriggan shitlords from waking up? I think I tried that a few times before giving up and finding a way to just overpower them instead. The corridor's designed so that you basically *have* to go through dozens of stealth checks since they can see invisible enemies. :smith:

kaschei posted:

You get an invis ring with Deuteronomy now? or is this a Sprint thing?

Fedhas' Mad Dash gives you an invis ring as a freebie because there's way too many oklob plants.

Also, I was all like "OH, I CAN JUST WORSHIP FEDHAS" and of course you can't find that altar anywhere.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 01:46

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Ewar Woowar posted:

So after a couple of years of playing Crawl I decided to give Sprint a go.

So start at Red Sonja...this shouldn't be diffi...

I've tried with multiple characters and none seem to work at all. Spriggan Enchanter has been my best option so far but I'm still far from completing it (I think).

What's a good option character/class/god wise?
Best way to deal with the mutating eyeballs in the bottom left?
Any general advice?

You can use a stabby/stealthy character for a lot of these sprint maps, but they tend to be very fragile and they tend to have more areas that are "off-limits" because they can't stab everything. They're really good at snatching the rune and making a run for it, though I imagine it'd take a lot of trial and error for Red Sonja. The map is doable with melee characters (IIRC I did it with TrBE once, but I found a sweet armor in one of the shops). DEFE of Sif Muna is probably the most reliable if you understand most of the spells: early enemies get owned by sticky flame, namely Sigmund where you just apply it to him, get behind the door and close the door repeatedly so he's forced to open it over and over until he burns to death. Sticky flame also works very well against invisible enemies and reveals them in the process. Fireball and curare needles (from Sonja) will deal with everything else until you get to the trickier rooms, but by then you should also have nastier spells at your disposal. If you focus on Conjurations and Fire you'll get fire storm to an acceptable success rate for the hardest area, the rest is just exploiting the fixed enemy placements to your advantage.

The best way to deal with the mutating eyeballs in the bottom left is to ignore it or save it for later for extra XP once you have a relatively safe way of dealing with them, and by safe I mean burning down the entire room in a few turns with fire storm. Going there generally isn't worth it, but XP is finite so you may or may not want to go there if you need an extra push.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 07:51

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Brannock posted:

Octopode anything.

Hilariously, unarmed Octopode monks/fighters of Chei become extremely powerful later on, since you can stack multiple strength/dexterity rings on top of your already boosted stats to do massive damage and get absurd levels of evasion even with statue form. If you can get statue form, the unarmed damage boost makes it so you one-shot pandemonium lords, orbs of fire and such very easily, while making you extremely tanky. Getting started with them is very difficult though, so you can't really call that overpowered..

# ¿ Aug 6, 2014 03:04

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Mr. Despair posted:

There is a chance that chunks will be removed (leaving permafood as the only source of food). I think s-z has a chunkless fork you can test out even!

I guess ghouls would be removed?

I never have trouble accumulating piles of permafood with chunks around anyway, even with berserkers; just play offensively and clear everything unless you absolutely have to avoid certain enemies.

If chunks are removed, I'd still like for there to be a way to handle corpses, nothing would be more annoying than having a corpse blocking a door tile without a way to pick it up or butcher it to get it out of the way..

# ¿ Aug 6, 2014 06:28

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

IronicDongz posted:

I've killed Enchantress twice I think, and considering how much I see people complain about her I don't know if I just got lucky because I'm pretty sure I just tabbed through her

She's one of the few enemies in the game that can cast dimensional anchor and disable blinks and teleports, which is a death sentence if you're caught in a bad position. Berserkers can usually maul everything by the time you encounter her though.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2014 07:16

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

So I have this character by the end of lair area:

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-90-g5e3c43b (webtiles) character file.

bananaken the Scorcher (DEFE)                      Turns: 26760, Time: 02:59:09

HP  86/86        AC 11     Str  3      XL: 16   Next: 29%
MP  54/54        EV 17     Int 28      God: Sif Muna [******]
Gold 1632        SH  0     Dex 19      Spells: 12 memorised,  4 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     r - staff of power
rCold  x . .     Clarity  +     X - +2 robe {rN+}
rNeg   + . .     rCorr    .     (no shield)
rPois  .         rRot     .     B - +2 helmet
rElec  .         Spirit   .     x - +0 cloak
SustAb .         Warding  .     s - +2 pair of gloves of Incorporation {+Inv Dex+4}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (no boots)
Gourm  .                        G - amulet of clarity
MR     +....                    U - ring of wizardry
                                R - ring of fire

I decided to try slime pits for fun, I had 3 scrolls of immolation, battlesphere, fireball, and bolt of fire:

code:

 26218 | Slime:6  | Reached XP level 16. HP: 44/86 MP: 7/39
 26423 | Slime:6  | Noticed the royal jelly
 26481 | Slime:6  | Noticed an acid blob
 26482 | Slime:6  | Noticed an acid blob
 26485 | Slime:6  | Killed an acid blob
 26487 | Slime:6  | Noticed an acid blob
 26489 | Slime:6  | Noticed an acid blob
 26489 | Slime:6  | Noticed an acid blob
 26491 | Slime:6  | Killed the royal jelly

After scaring TRJ to spam his minions, I used a scroll of immolation to cause a ton of explosions around him, and when he summoned even more minions in reaction to the explosions, I would read scroll of immolation AGAIN. I had to rely on blink to create distance, but it worked out. Probably the lowest level character I've done TRJ with, and he got annihilated. 10/10 would suicide dive slime pits again

# ¿ Aug 9, 2014 01:14

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Doing a Vine Stalker of Xom, here's how I look like after raiding Elf:3

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-113-gc8d9654 (webtiles) character file.

bananaken the Fetichist (VSCK)                     Turns: 32507, Time: 02:46:30

HP 103/103       AC 43     Str 20      XL: 18   Next: 75%
MP  35/35        EV  2     Int 12      God: Xom
Gold 2713        SH 14     Dex 18      Spells:  0 memorised, 19 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis .     t - +5 dagger (elec)
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     Z - +9 armour of the Dragon King {rPois rF+ rC+ MR+}
rNeg   . . .     rCorr    +     N - +1 shield {reflect}
rPois  +         rRot     +     w - +2 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   +     I - +2 cloak
SustAb .         Warding  .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     k - +2 pair of boots of the Evening {MR++ Stlth+}
Gourm  .                        j - amulet of resist corrosion
MR     +++++                    O - ring of protection from fire
                                Y - ring of the Salamander {+Fly Str+2 Stlth-}

As much as I like the ARMOUR OF THE DRAGON KING, the encumbrance rating is pretty brutal, should I just pump as much strength as I can to compensate? I'm hoping I can cast some utility spells and have more than 2 evasion for extended.

I want to switch to a good god for extended eventually (TSO/Zin), particularly Zin to cockblock Xom from mutating me further once I win in the mutation roulette, here's what I have so far:

code:

Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have razor-sharp teeth.
You regenerate.
When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves.
Your bite disrupts and absorbs the magic of your enemies.
Potions and wands cannot restore your health.
You are immune to rotting.
You are partially covered in rough black scales (AC +4, Dex -1).
You are partially covered in slimy green scales (AC +2).
Your flesh is cold resistant.
Your flesh is heat resistant.
You are somewhat resistant to further mutation.

I have potions of mutation and 1 cure mutation, but innate rF+ and rC+ seems pretty reasonable already, what do you guys think?

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 09:14

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Said screw it and switched to Zin:

code:

You have razor-sharp teeth.
You regenerate.
When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves.
Your bite disrupts and absorbs the magic of your enemies.
Potions and wands cannot restore your health.
You are immune to rotting.
You have sharp fingernails.
You have a pair of horns on your head.
You are partially covered in icy blue scales (AC +1).
You are partially covered in rough black scales (AC +4, Dex -1).
You are partially covered in slimy green scales (AC +2).
You can breathe flames.
Your flesh is cold resistant.
Your flesh is heat resistant.
Your system is resistant to poisons.
You are robust (+10% HP).
Your spells are a little harder to cast, but a little more powerful.
You evolve.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 10:46

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

code:

You hear Xom's avuncular chuckle.
 Your body is suffused with distortional energy.
 Zin protects your body from mutation! x2
 "Let me alter your body."
 Your body is suffused with distortional energy.
 Zin protects your body from mutation! x3
 You hear Xom's maniacal laughter.

We can still be friends next game, right Xom? :ohdear:

# ¿ Aug 11, 2014 18:29

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Internet Kraken posted:

I lied.

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20140812-061419.txt

Got every rune that matters to me (Hell and Tomb are the opposite of fun so gently caress em). I'd say I played well but really, the game gave me a pearl dragon hide and +7 quick blade in lair. That's just silly.

I can see what people mean about vine stalkers antimagic bite being absurd. When I fought Cerebov, he didn't do a drat thing. He walked up to me, and then just stood there helpless as I REALLY SLOWLY chipped away at his massive health bar. It took forever to kill him but it didn't matter because he couldn't move an inch. So the big fiery demon got killed by an angry plant wielding a toothpick.

As for my worries about hellions, I didn't see a single one during my entire Pan trip. I guess that makes up for my DgVm that died to about a dozen of them pouring out of a single room.

I didn't do VSBe, rather VSCK for fun. If you can stack slaying bonuses at all, a quick blade or even a dagger with all your auxiliary attacks become pretty deadly:

(not shown below is the crapton of good mutations)

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-119-gc74d62a (webtiles) character file.

15421514 bananaken the Bringer of Law (level 27, 206/206 HPs)
             Began as a Vine Stalker Chaos Knight on Aug 11, 2014.
             Was the Champion of Zin.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on Aug 12, 2014!
             
             The game lasted 10:14:28 (102072 turns).

bananaken the Bringer of Law (VSCK)               Turns: 102072, Time: 10:14:28

HP 206/206       AC 49     Str 28      XL: 27
MP  48/48        EV 12     Int 12      God: Zin [******]
Gold 6268        SH 21     Dex 27      Spells: 10 memorised, 35 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis +     R - +9 quick blade (stab)
rCold  + + .     Clarity  +     Z - +9 armour of the Dragon King {rPois rF+ rC+ MR+}
rNeg   . . .     rCorr    .     N - +5 shield {reflect}
rPois  +         rRot     +     p - -1 hat "Varch" {Str+3 Dex+5}
rElec  .         Spirit   +     I - +2 cloak
SustAb .         Warding  .     w - +0 pair of gloves of the Cockatrice {Slay+6 Stlth+}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     k - +2 pair of boots of the Evening {MR++ Stlth+}
Gourm  .                        a - amulet "Loucavett" {Clar rF+ Slay+5}
MR     +++++                    m - ring of Vitality {HP+15 Regen}
                                v - ring "Siarch" {Str+2 Dex+4 Slay+3 SInv Stlth--}

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/bananaken/morgue-bananaken-20140812-062835.txt

I still prefer classes like Gargoyle, but VS will do well even without an ideal weapon, while I would almost always start as a Berserker with Gargoyle. Their passive abilities are extremely powerful and their downsides are situational at best: don't take on Jorgrun if you can help it, lure deep troll earth mages into melee before engaging, etc.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2014 07:46

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Philip Rivers posted:

After Trog wrath, getting vaporized in Elf:3 was probably the most dangerous part of my 10 or whatever games I played before I finally got over the hump. The answer is stealth and liberal use of god given abilities. Anything that helps you stay away from directly engaging enemies at range is good, like throwing out Trog Bros or shouting at things with Recite is a great way to get in distraction stabs and not take more damage than you can regenerate at one time. Hellfire is super dangerous, but everything else is pretty avoidable in practice.

Alternatively, if you can find really good plate or dragon armor+shield you won't even need spells save for some utility buffs for extended; pump strength to minimize the penalties and you're golden.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2014 09:44

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

FulsomFrank posted:

How do you figure out the correct amount of strength to pump to minimise penalties? This is the one part of the game that I've never really understood.

If I'm wearing a medium/large shield and heavy armour, I'll usually just put whatever levels I have left into strength since that helps your performance with both (unless you're a class with a very high base strength and automatic strength gain). You can kinda eyeball how much your stats (like SH, EV and spellcasting penalty) are affected by putting on a strength ring, but I don't micromanage it at least. You definitely wanna match or exceed the encumbrance rating with your strength stat.

# ¿ Aug 12, 2014 15:52

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

pathetic little tramp posted:

Special portals spawn on d:1 when you have the orb that allow you to participate in a God's challenge, like doing Tomb while under Ash wrath.

The orb could maybe give you the ability to invade their domain, that'd be pretty badass, evoke the orb at their altar or something.

Grabbing the orb should also unlock a hidden skill to train for orb-only abilities that you'll use to commit deicide :getin:

# ¿ Aug 13, 2014 02:28

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Kylra posted:

Dungeon Crawl RNG.png

Yeah that's good rng, only a few orc priests and a wizard to worry about! :dance:

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 00:09

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Internet Kraken posted:

gently caress everything.

Really what the gently caress are you supposed to do in a situation like this? It just feels like your hosed because you have no option to escape and the RNG felt like being a bitch. Go down stairs, there are two vault wardens guarding it. Okay, I'll go somewhere else and then come back so they don't notice me. I do that, and it works. Only the stairs are still sealed somehow even though the wardens don't know where I am?!?

Then while trying to kill the wardens so I can leave the entire level wakes up including two loving ancient liches. They summon a bunch of poo poo and I can't even move because there is so much chaff in the way. Meanwhile the Vault Wardens are just sitting out of range laughing at how helpless I am. Dithmenos shadow form keeps me alive ridiculously long but what does it matter? The seal never ends. I can't kill the wardens. There's nothing I can do but sit there and watch myself slowly die.

Maybe the lesson here is don't bother trying to do Vaults:5 as an ant because you're completely at the mercy of the RNG.

EDIT: Ants are hard and I'm sick of dieing with them

Antdudes definitely need alternative ways of moving around. If you don't worship Lugonu, I would suggest having Passage of Golubria or a way to do a jump attack (boots of jumping would work in this case). If you can reposition yourself so you're in one of the four hallways, you can use a scroll of immolation and set everything on fire. With rF+++ or even rF++ the damage of a couple explosions will be negligible compared to the carnage caused by immolation, and it'll buy you time to reposition yourself or pick out more dangerous enemies.

Of course, it seems a little late for that now, rip

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 05:34

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Internet Kraken posted:

I agree they definitely need some way to reposition themselves but I can't for the life of me think of one that's at all reliable. Lugonu's abilities are the only ones but that requires starting as an Abyssal Knight, plus I really don't want to run a Lugonu ant. Passage of Golubria wouldn't of helped at all there since I didn't even have time to set something like that up. Jumping boots would of but you can't really count on the rng mercifully gifting you one. What options do you have beyond that? Shafting doesn't work in branch ends but its the place your most likely to wish you could use it.

Its just frustrating since most of the time when I die, I can think of what I did wrong and what I could do to work around it. Here I'm stumped. Maybe I need to run a better god than Dith. Maybe Cheibriados would work since I have the slouch nuke option and step from time, but gently caress trying to survive the early game with chei as an ant sounds awful.

I get your frustration but Formicid was never meant to be an easy species, specially on branch ends where undiggable walls are common and you can't create shafts. You can definitely be a little more prepared next time though: maxed fire resist, some scrolls of immolation and some ranged way to deal with enemies isn't too much to ask for by the time you get to Vaults:5. Passage is not 100% reliable but it can save you in situations where you need to move and shadow step isn't available.

Also, with rF+++ even if you trigger a chain reaction while completely surrounded, without shadow form we're talking about 96 damage at *worst*, your character could easily tank that much.

apple fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Aug 14, 2014

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 06:26

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Internet Kraken posted:

I did try killing the wardens with my lightning rod. It just made things worse since there were even more wardens hiding just out of sight, along with the loving ancient liches.

I don't know if lightning rod generates the same noise as lightning bolt, but that's the loudest bolt spell, even louder than inner flame explosions from giant enemies!

I hate to sound like a broken record, but.. while spamming scrolls of immolation are a good way to die if you're not careful, they're also a good way to deal with areas you'd normally be horribly unprepared for. I've never had trouble using them in Vaults:5 at least, even without repositioning myself with blinks/teleports but YMMV. v :shobon:

v If you can't at the very least find a source or two of fire resist, then you're better off doing something else of course, but I usually do V:5 late enough that I've found some source of fire resistance, even if I have to swap in a weapon that I have zero training for.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll be able to find an answer, just wanted to mention scroll of immolation. Ever since it got changed into a mass inner flame spell it's been a fairly common strategy for Vaults:5.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 08:24

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

kaschei posted:

I feel like a Dith Ant should have a decent shot at leaving the entrance and skulking around the edges. Sputterflies or scroll of fog will cut you off from any pack of enemies' sight long enough for your presumably-massive stealth to make most of them wander off.

In particular pissing Dith off with inner flames is probably not the best idea just when crunch time looms.

But I would like to know the duration of seal exits given a surviving warden.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot Dith hates "sources of fire" and you'd be turning the center of V:5 into one giant bonfire. :downs:

If it's a modest piety hit it might be worth it, but instant penance would get you killed yeah.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2014 08:41

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

More sprint silliness: this time I wanted to try maxing out my level with some of the maps with severely limited XP:

code:

 Dungeon Sprint DCSS version 0.16-a0-223-g37887f7 (webtiles) character file.

803629 bananaken the Conqueror (level 27, 171/174 HPs)
             Began as a Vine Stalker Berserker on Aug 15, 2014.
             Was the Champion of the Shining One.
             Escaped with the Orb!
             The game lasted 02:55:03 (11574 turns).

bananaken the Conqueror (Vine Stalker Berserker)   Turns: 11574, Time: 02:55:04

HP 171/174       AC 44     Str 31      XL: 27
MP  50/50        EV 30     Int  9      God: the Shining One [******]
Gold 17          SH 26     Dex 19      Spells:  5 memorised, 61 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     v - +5 Blessed Blade
rCold  + + .     Clarity  +     y - +7 plate armour "Zesm" {rC++}
rNeg   + + +     rCorr    .     (no shield)
rPois  +         rRot     +     i - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  +         Spirit   +     o - +0 cloak of Kloum {Slay+2}
SustAb .         Warding  .     j - +2 pair of gloves {Str+3}
rMut   .         NoTele   +     x - +1 pair of boots
Gourm  .                        c - amulet of Xoatapp Oziy {Clar rElec MR+}
MR     +++++                    R - ring of Pragmatism {rPois rC+ MR+ Slay+4 Stlth++}
                                S - ring "Simiorea" {Fire MR+ Slay+3}

This was on Menkaure's sprint map, where you end up at around XL 11-13 I think? Basically you have to grab the Orb and kill monsters constantly. I switched to TSO since just about everything that comes out to attack you would also heal you under TSO, and it actually helps you survive Trog's wrath by killing evil cannon fodder while you get rid of Trog's summons. Slaying bonuses and a +5 blessed claymore meant killing everything in 1-2 hits most of the time, it's pretty great.

I'm guessing the scoring system is kinda broken since getting to XL27 before escaping beat the previous best score by a ton, but it *does* involve killing dozens of pandemonium lords and putting yourself at significant risk so it's not exactly cheating. Nevertheless, experimenting with these sprint maps can be pretty fun v :shobon:

v

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/bananaken/morgue-bananaken-20140820-071246.txt

# ¿ Aug 21, 2014 03:17

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Mayheim posted:

Stoats yelled at me for just legging it with the orb instead of getting more runes with this:
http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Mayheim/morgue-Mayheim-20140821-153451.txt

I've never done any of the postgame things so I didn't know what to expect.

Lots and lots of sources of torment, so you would switch to TSO to get your negative resist maxed out, bless a demon blade for a weapon upgrade, and a way to heal yourself.

Alternatively, you could have picked Zin because he nullifies Hell effects pretty much entirely at max piety, provides a bunch of useful skills for extended and torment sources can be imprisoned instead of tanked (with the exception of death curses). More importantly, he's more interesting and you feel more badass:

Like, seriously

# ¿ Aug 22, 2014 13:15

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Internet Kraken posted:

NOW I NEVER HAVE TO PLAY A loving MUMMY AGAIN!!!

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/InternetKraken/morgue-InternetKraken-20140824-032715.txt

Mummies are the worst. Miserable early game. Miserable to the point where I think I have 40+ of them die before even reaching temple. No healing, innate fire weakness, and an inability to use potions means your options for surviving the early game are nonexistent. You either get good luck or you die to a goblin spamming a wand of flame. Even once I reached the late game it still felt like I'd be better as any other species using necromutation.

But more importantly, I'm pretty sure I've now beaten Crawl with every species currently in the game. Feels pretty good to finally achieve that goal after working towards it for so long.

Nice!

I don't think I'll ever do mummies, they're just boring. If they had an interesting way to break the game open by cheesing the lack of food clock they would be a good novelty class, but there's already other challenge classes that at least have cool tradeoffs (Felid, Formicid, Octopode come to mind). Abusing mummies strengths once you have the right tools just isn't as interesting as it sounds.

In fact, I had a 15-rune run going with a melee-only Octopode of chei and died at 14 runes because I refused to leave pandemonium to cure my teleportitis, and obviously that means I had to be teleported into a mob of hellions and hell sentinels :downs:

# ¿ Aug 24, 2014 04:49

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Demonspawn is pretty fun, I started as a berserker and rolled Nightstalker, Augmentation and Powered by Pain as well as a bunch of auxiliary attacks. I got some insane items as well:

code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-257-g3b94ba0 (webtiles) character file.

1605557 bananaken the Slayer (level 27, 232/232 HPs)
             Began as a Demonspawn Berserker on Aug 24, 2014.
             Was a High Priest of Trog.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 3 runes!
             
             The game lasted 06:24:19 (81977 turns).

bananaken the Slayer (Demonspawn Berserker)        Turns: 81977, Time: 06:24:20

HP 232/232       AC 33     Str 34      XL: 27
MP  13/13        EV 15     Int 12      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 2267        SH 19     Dex 20      Spells:  0 memorised, 26 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis .     i - +6 demon blade (antimagic)
rCold  + + +     Clarity  +     d - +9 gold dragon armour
rNeg   . . .     rCorr    +     X - +2 shield of Resistance {rF+ rC+ MR+}
rPois  +         rRot     .     (helmet unavailable)
rElec  +         Spirit   .     F - +1 cloak of Inevitability {Slay+5 Curse}
SustAb .         Warding  .     (gloves unavailable)
rMut   +         Stasis   .     (boots unavailable)
Gourm  .                        Q - amulet of resist mutation
MR     +++++                    W - +6 ring of slaying
                                w - ring of Vitality {HP+15 Regen}
...

You have claws for hands.
You have hooves in place of feet.
You have a pair of large horns on your head.
You are completely attuned to the shadows.
You are powered by pain.
Your magical and physical power is greatly enhanced at high health.
You possess an exceptional clarity of mind.
Your mind is acute. (Int +2)
You are frail (-10% HP).
You are resistant to electric shocks.
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)

Getting massive slaying bonuses is always nice: 11 + augmentation 3 bonus :getin:

If I didn't need the resistances, I could have opted for an orange crystal plate mail or a plate mail randart with another +5 slaying. I could have probably skipped Trog and gone Makhleb or something to do extended after training some spells, but I'd rather try extended with a mage of sorts.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2014 14:25

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Kekekela posted:

I was pleased with this D:5 find on my Red Draconian Berserker
code:
the ring "Semes" (right hand) {rPois rC++ Slay+4}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Dungeon) 
ty crawl

Might as well just put Krazy Glue on your finger :stare:

# ¿ Aug 25, 2014 16:43

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

PleasingFungus posted:

The other half of the problem is that many players get to extended without 60 AC, 30 EV, DDoor & CBlink, and the game has to be winnable for them, too. (Since getting all those good stats depends to some extent on good luck w.r.t. found equipment.) You could make extended challenging for the 60/30/30 crowd by, say, doubling enemies' hp, damage, and speed, across the board. But that would kind of gently caress over everyone who didn't find the +27 gold dragon armour of gently caress you - or force them to scum abyss until they found it!

What about going beyond enemy stats or numbers? Each place can have environmental hazards suited to the flavor of that environment. This is already done in Hells by pelting you with demonic forces, but it could just be integrated into traps, part of the geometry or unique skills on bosses.

Having avoidable "super attacks" on bosses would be pretty cool, and it could make the fights interesting and challenging without having to rely on adding 300 sources of torment to assist them. Something like:

- Asmodeus in cramped areas could be replaced in favor of an arena with plenty of space, but he has a special sweeping hellfire attack that gradually sweeps the entire arena, but you can step through it safely depending on the pattern.
- Ereshhkigal could have a weaker spell set/slower, but require you to destroy something that's making her extra durable/invulnerable.
- Antaeus could summon freezing tidal waves with a warning text so you take cover.
- Dispater could have an extra powerful "iron" orb of destruction that has no tracking but is sidesteppable.

None of the attacks have to one-shot you, but they can give the developers an excuse to throw something extra powerful at you that you can do something about regardless of background that's not necessarily torment spam.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 07:19

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Darox posted:

These ideas don't really work when you consider that the way you fight enemies as a melee character is by standing next to them and attacking. How do you dodge a OoD or sweeping Hellfire at point blank range without falling into a 'take one step clockwise around him every 5 attacks' type strategy which basically only serves to gently caress over Cheiworshippers and artificially extend boss health.

These are just filler ideas, but I think the concept itself is can be really fun (might be a little obscure, but elevator of dimensions mod in DoomRL had "super attacks" like these). Basically the point would be to add an extra element of danger to bosses that you can handle with some general strategy. They shouldn't require spoilery knowledge or anything, you should be able to identify that something is dangerous and plan accordingly.

The OoD one is probably not a good example of what I'm trying to say, at best you'd just have a warning message so you sidestep at the last moment, but that'd be pretty boring.

Let's take the hellfire "super attack". It can totally work even for melee only characters or chei worshippers (incoming 30 seconds of copy/paste):

code:

......X.............
....................
......X...@&........
....................
......X.............
....................
......X.............

code:

....................
.......X............
..........@&........
.......X............
....................
.......X............
....................

Basically, once you see the attack creeping up on you, you would use your next turn to go up or down. Or this could be part of unique fire themed Hell/Pandemonium maps to get to the boss. A melee only character just adjusts his position once and wails away at Asmodeus, even if you're Chei all you have to do is not wait until the last moment to move, or you could use temporal distortion if you really have to.

If spending turns doing something other than attacking is always artificially extending a boss's health (and therefore a Bad Thing), then yeah IDK what else to suggest for bosses v :shobon:

v Just throwing ideas out there.

apple fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Aug 26, 2014

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 14:31

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

nucleicmaxid posted:

I don't know why the main game doesn't take a hint from some of the Sprints.

For example:

Have a new rune called The Bloody Rune or something and have it be an arena. You have to knowingly enter and activate it, and it spawns, say, 27 waves of enemies with only a short break between them and no dropped loot (or little dropped loot) followed by a rune that pops up after the last enemy is dead. Put it after the Hall of Blades to give people a reason to go through there.

I'm guessing the progression would be to finish polishing the standard 3-4 rune game, then move on to making big changes to places like Hell/Pandemonium, then finally add anything extra. The devs seem amenable to adding/experimenting with gods in between though.

The problem with hall of blades (and likely why it was removed) is that it doesn't really serve any significant purpose, it definitely doesn't warrant being it's own mini-branch. It's just a bunch of enchanted weapons at a point in the game where you already have access to enough of those. It'd be kick-rear end if it could be integrated into the Vaults or some other branch as a "mini-vault" or runed door area though.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 15:49

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

BigFactory posted:

That's exactly what it was, though.

Yeah I know, basically it'd be good to see it back. Enchanted forest (sort of) came back as a branch ending in Lair:8, maybe something similar could be done for HoB (though maybe not for L:8 since that sounds like death).

# ¿ Aug 26, 2014 16:22

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Internet Kraken posted:

I've wanted to play an octopode melee character but have no idea how you would reliably get through the early game as one.

If you want to worship Chei, being a monk mitigates the period of time where Chei is an useless jerk and you get a good headstart on your UC skill. Before you reach the temple you just have to make do with whatever you find. Any decent bolt attack from a wand, an early buckler/shield (definitely train shields asap), a decent ring, etc. all boost your survival rate considerably (remember to use any berserk/haste potions beforehand!)

# ¿ Aug 27, 2014 06:44

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Speaking of stat changes, where should my points go into as a UC Octopode of Chei? I know constriction uses strength and I have a large shield so I'm just dumping extra points into strength.

With my current OpMo I aimed for clearing Elf:3 since my equipment sucked, then I proceed to get banished to the Abyss immediately. In my desperation for finding better equipment I decide to go for the abyssal rune since I found a trove earlier that requires it. Thankfully even Abyss:3 is pretty reasonable as a Chei worshipper thanks to weedgod slowing down the Abyss significantly so I manage to snatch it after slouching the Abyssal rune vault and get out. Cheibriados rules.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2014 17:36

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

kaschei posted:

Intelligence so that you can cast the spells that make stuff at the edge of your LOS fall down, dex so that stuff misses you more often (but they never write) up to 36 or 48 or something crazy, str when you want to feel like a man while parading naked but bejeweled through the dungeon.

edit: honestly it almost doesn't matter where you put your stats as a cheibro

An octopus becoming a MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION never stops being amusing

One day I'll do 15 rune with this, it's not that bad once you have statue form, but I imagine necromutation would probably be good to have for extended even if you're predominantly melee. I got an elemental staff this game too so I probably could have branched out into being a crazy strong omniresistant caster. Too lazy I guess v :shobon:

# ¿ Aug 27, 2014 19:25

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 20:59

apple: May 18, 2003; Jose in the club wearing orange suspenders

Internet Kraken posted:

Necro form is redundant if you have statue form and full negative resist. Torment is barely an issue with that much damage reduction.

Why not just use both? Torment only scratches statue form at that point, but being slow around sources of hellfire is really annoying, even with the massive HP pool. Also like Lobe said, no hunger costs is really nice, having the option to spam a couple of level 7-8 spells to deal with enemies at range is super helpful.

Jeffrey posted:

lets kick the new page off with something fresh

mountain dwarves sure were cool

I slapped Wiglaf to death with my OpMo and I didn't even have statue form yet, mountain dwarves are chumps :colbert:

# ¿ Aug 27, 2014 20:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl 0.14: You feel energized by your suffering!