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Cat Mattress posted:Is there any chance at all than an anti-austerity party might get a plurality of seats in the EP? Yes. The S&D are anti-austerity and have a good chance of taking the greatest number of seats.
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May 11, 2014 22:34
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The_Franz posted:You need to remember that the €1000 a month figure is after taxes whereas most listed US wages are pre-tax so taxes and Social Security will still be taken out of that sum. Any job with a $16k USD salary is also part-time and will require you to pay for things like health insurance yourself while the taxes taken out of the euro salary already include health care costs. It's important to note that the wages in the Eurostat link posted by Effectronica are before taxes and social security deductions, and Belgium has some of the highest tax rates in the world. A net minimum wage of € 1500 would be crazy. The actual minimum wage would depend on your personal situation but is probably indeed somewhere close to € 1000. e: I used an online calculator and I guess it's actually closer to € 1300. Much more than I thought. Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 23:58 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 23:52
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The bruto wage is basically meaningless since it's a heavily complicated system to see how much you keep after taxation. The golden rule of belgian socialism is that everyone ends up being around the €1500 average. No such thing as income inequality here. Or self-made rich people. So it has it's up- and downsides.
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May 12, 2014 08:30
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The median in Italy for 2011 was 15,723 €/y, after taxes. It is pretty normal here to have a 900-1200 €/month wage, especially if you don't live in a big city (and there's only a handful of them). Which is fine if you live with your parents and yadda yadda that's why we have 40 years old living with parents. Char fucked around with this message at 14:47 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 09:36
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Nektu posted:I dont think that he wants to talk about the finer points of how much income is "low" (that of him and his buddies is far below that "low"). This and again, talking about the hardship of living with a thousand euros literally makes about 50% of the European population turn it's head in confusion. It's the way he expressed himself that gives us concern, because it shows that he's talking to a NW audience, to NW hardships and giving weak-hearted arguments regarding austerity but never actually says "yeah this stupid thing has run it's course and we need a serious economic change in the EU". LemonDrizzle posted:Yes. The S&D are anti-austerity and have a good chance of taking the greatest number of seats. If our future are private education, private healthcare, bare bones public sector, massive taxes on everyone without a clear explanation to where our taxes go and our country being nothing more than a tourism\service sector colony, without barely any industry, agriculture or even fishing, what is the difference between "austerity" and "not-austerity but still living as you were in austerity times"? We know that from S&D rightwards this is not a concern to them, but S&D keeps toeing a line where they oppose austerity yet there's no indication of what they would do different.
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May 12, 2014 20:24
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Mans posted:This and again, talking about the hardship of living with a thousand euros literally makes about 50% of the European population turn it's head in confusion. It's the way he expressed himself that gives us concern, because it shows that he's talking to a NW audience, to NW hardships and giving weak-hearted arguments regarding austerity but never actually says "yeah this stupid thing has run it's course and we need a serious economic change in the EU". Well as you know only Germans can vote for him.
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May 12, 2014 20:26
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It is almost as if Portugal/Greece and Germany shouldn't be in the same economical union because their societies and economies are nothing alike.
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May 12, 2014 20:39
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NihilismNow posted:It is almost as if Portugal/Greece and Germany shouldn't be in the same economical union because their societies and economies are nothing alike. Agreed. Kick Germany out of the Euro.
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May 12, 2014 20:58
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Electronico6 posted:Agreed. Belgium, Netherlands, Austria and Germany form a new euro, you can keep the old one.
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May 12, 2014 21:05
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NihilismNow posted:Belgium, Netherlands, Austria and Germany form a new euro, you can keep the old one. Get the Czech Republic and Poland on that scheme why won't you.
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May 12, 2014 21:17
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Just make economic unions based on how much sun that country gets. Southern Europe+ Turkey and Southern France gets a union where everyone is tanned and happy, Germany, Benelux and Scandinavia have their freezing cold union and Britain can stand proudly alone with their never ending rain.
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May 12, 2014 21:20
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Mans posted:Are they? Locally their S&D satelite has been pretty adamant in saying that the changes of the recent years can't be abandoned and that this course is the way to go but with Change! and Improvement! and every positive word they can find but without actually saying anything concrete. http://socialistsanddemocrats.eu/sites/default/files/sd_100_days_updated_april_2014_EN.pdf quote:An end to austerity Their policies include a europe-wide jobs guarantee for unemployed people under 25 and abolishing the Troika, among other things.
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May 12, 2014 21:25
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LemonDrizzle posted:http://socialistsanddemocrats.eu/sites/default/files/sd_100_days_updated_april_2014_EN.pdf Yes, but it's important to look at, say, the french example to realize just how much of those policies are bullshit.
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May 12, 2014 23:49
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It's quite important to keep in mind that what politicians say has absolutely no bearing on what they'll do.
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May 13, 2014 08:48
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NihilismNow posted:It is almost as if Portugal/Greece and Germany shouldn't be in the same economical union because their societies and economies are nothing alike. This is true all over Europe. Italy doesn't even have a legally established minimum wage, and the cost of living spaces from the high (1400€/m are realistic) costs of Milan and the big cities to the low (500€/m) costs for the small towns.
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May 13, 2014 09:29
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Cat Mattress posted:It's quite important to keep in mind that what politicians say has absolutely no bearing on what they'll do. Depends on the country and political party. Some have really good track records on winning elections and then turning the vast majority of their promises into actual legislation.  Others don't quite... 
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May 13, 2014 11:06
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The Danish government's voter participation campaign is.. interesting. 
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May 13, 2014 19:04
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uncleTomOfFinland posted:The Danish government's voter participation campaign is.. interesting. This is basically what it feels like to live in Belgium, a country where voting is compulsory. Voteman is our government. His fists are our constitution.
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May 13, 2014 23:51
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I'm actually okay with compulsory voting, and I wish we had a Portuguese Voteman. Especially considering who doesn't vote around here. The other day they were doing a vox pop in Fatima, asking the pilgrims if they were going to vote, and there was a dumb old woman saying "I'm not voting again. I'm done with elections!". You should know better you old hag. 
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May 14, 2014 00:07
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Electronico6 posted:I'm actually okay with compulsory voting, and I wish we had a Portuguese Voteman. Especially considering who doesn't vote around here. 75% abstention rates incoming. I guess that's all you can expect when you can't even get a loving debate of the candidates going on in public TV 
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May 14, 2014 00:23
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uncleTomOfFinland posted:The Danish government's voter participation campaign is.. interesting. Birgitte would never have signed off on that
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May 14, 2014 00:23
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KoldPT posted:75% abstention rates incoming. Urg. This was already terrible during the municipals, it became worse when PS and PSD-CDS tried to change the law to reduce the fair coverage to just parliamentary parties, and added a line to have the State decide what is kosher and isn't to be debated, giving the media the proper excuse they were looking to never cover an election again. It's like they benefit from it or something.
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May 14, 2014 00:38
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The prohibition of public debates is the only way someone like Nuno Melo can run without embarrassing himself.
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May 14, 2014 02:33
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KoldPT posted:75% abstention rates incoming. But even if you could you can't vote for them because you live in the wrong country.
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May 14, 2014 07:24
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KoldPT posted:Yes, but it's important to look at, say, the french example to realize just how much of those policies are bullshit. You can't really blame the EP for actions taken by national governments - they're separate entities. The S&D have been quite vocal and consistent about their criticisms of austerity, and I don't really see any particular reason to doubt their sincerity. NihilismNow posted:But even if you could you can't vote for them because you live in the wrong country. Anyway, UK national polls now have UKIP taking a plurality of the vote. GG. LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 09:05 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 09:03
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LemonDrizzle posted:You can't really blame the EP for actions taken by national governments - they're separate entities. The S&D have been quite vocal and consistent about their criticisms of austerity, and I don't really see any particular reason to doubt their sincerity. That even Hollande had to throw the towel IS a bad sign for the anti-austerity crowd... Nektu fucked around with this message at 09:24 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 09:22
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LemonDrizzle posted:You can't really blame the EP for actions taken by national governments - they're separate entities. The S&D have been quite vocal and consistent about their criticisms of austerity, and I don't really see any particular reason to doubt their sincerity. Just make the UK a US state and be done with it.
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May 14, 2014 09:25
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Electronico6 posted:I'm actually okay with compulsory voting, I think it's a good idea if and only if there's a "none" option at the top of the list. Forcing ignorant and uninterested people to vote isn't a good way to fix politics, and it'll magnify the list bias. Also it would help determine how many people genuinely don't give a poo poo.
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May 14, 2014 10:45
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I've long wondered if it makes any difference at all. Belgium's voting patterns are nothing out of the ordinary aside from the split between the linguistic communities (which is a different matter).
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May 14, 2014 11:14
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Charlie Mopps posted:Just make the UK a US state and be done with it. The proper way for us to do it would be to make it at least 3 states, and realistically more like 4 or 5. 
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May 14, 2014 15:08
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Charlie Mopps posted:Just make the UK a US state and be done with it. let us Scots get out first before you do that!
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May 14, 2014 16:13
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IceAgeComing posted:let us Scots get out first before you do that! We'll get you some kind of reservation. No guarantees on the location, though- we're thinking maybe just outside Sedona?
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May 14, 2014 16:18
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The fine for not voting in Belgium is €5-10, considering the time it takes to vote that is a fair tradeoff. And if i am reading this correctly after 4 times you don't have to vote again for another 10 years. So it is a extra tax of about 20 euro a year to not have to vote (second, third and fourth fines are higher), hardly significant.
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May 14, 2014 17:21
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In reality no one ever gets fined, the Minister of Justice (Annemie Turtelboom) a few years back even explicitly stated that there would be no legal consequences for those that didn't show up to vote. It makes me wonder why they bother keeping the law on the books.
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May 15, 2014 04:17
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Phlegmish posted:In reality no one ever gets fined, the Minister of Justice (Annemie Turtelboom) a few years back even explicitly stated that there would be no legal consequences for those that didn't show up to vote. It makes me wonder why they bother keeping the law on the books. Lack of political will to formally abolish it, as it's probably some random group's pet issue to keep it on the books.
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May 15, 2014 04:44
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Nektu posted:I think we are doubting the feasibility, not the sincerity. Also, please don't pretent that the EP has the power to go against the council's wishes at the current time. I don't think you can assume that what was true in the past will remain true in future. The Parliament has gained a lot of power in recent years that it didn't previously have and may be effectively determining the composition of the Commission. That gives it indirect control over one arm of the Troika and the EU's executive body, which would further strengthen its position relative to the national governments. The FT's got an interesting article that covers the expansion of the Parliament's powers and its conflicts with national governments: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8b347498-d9c4-11e3-b3e3-00144feabdc0.html quote:Once derided as a powerless talking shop, the parliament has through perseverance and some low cunning grabbed hold of almost all EU policy: financial reform, banker pay, trade pacts, data protection rules and a trillion-euro budget. I don't think the Council of ministers would be overly bothered if Juncker became Commission president, but Schultz could set some feathers flying.
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May 15, 2014 07:20
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LemonDrizzle posted:I don't think the Council of ministers would be overly bothered if Juncker became Commission president, but Schultz could set some feathers flying. The general view of Juncker is that he's an alcoholic who is passed his prime and who kept on bungling poo poo up in the debt crisis because he couldn't keep his mouth shut. I honestly am not convinced any of the 'candidates' are acceptable.
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May 15, 2014 08:23
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Lagotto posted:The general view of Juncker is that he's an alcoholic who is passed his prime and who kept on bungling poo poo up in the debt crisis because he couldn't keep his mouth shut. I honestly am not convinced any of the 'candidates' are acceptable. b-but what about Keller/Bové??
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May 15, 2014 13:26
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Lagotto posted:The general view of Juncker is that he's an alcoholic who is passed his prime and who kept on bungling poo poo up in the debt crisis because he couldn't keep his mouth shut. I honestly am not convinced any of the 'candidates' are acceptable. When you say "acceptable", do you mean to you personally or to the council? AFAIK, our government's not-very-secret position is that they'll tolerate Juncker or whichever EPP candidate takes his place after the voting's done but they'll do whatever they can to prevent Schulz from getting the Presidency - that's part of the reason our press has been quietly talking up Thorning-Schmidt as a compromise S&D candidate if the S&D take a plurality of the votes.
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May 15, 2014 14:15
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NihilismNow posted:It is almost as if Portugal/Greece and Germany shouldn't be in the same economical union because their societies and economies are nothing alike. I don't know, replace Portugal and Greece with random southern states and Germany with, say, New York, and I think you get the same for the USA. The problem with the union is that it's pretty much only monetary; the EU needs stronger central economic control and planning to make the Eurozone work. I mean yeah you could get rid of the problems the Euro causes by getting rid of the Euro, but the problems are not so much a result of different societies and economies being under one system than it is different societies and economies being under a weak system.
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May 15, 2014 17:30
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