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forkboy84 posted:The last time I looked for who was standing there was nobody from Tsipras's bloc running in Scotland. Which is a shame. Not that a party not running in this constituency means that there's no democracy. That'd be a silly thing to claim. Yeh, unfortunately in the UK the only party with a chance of winning anything that is a member of GUE/NGL is Sinn Fein. The Greens, SNP and Plaid are all members of the fusion EG-EFA coalition. The Greens obviously because one of the parties that formed the coalition was The Greens, and Plaid and the SNP because the EFA was essentially just a party of European regions seeking independence from their larger country/union. I made an excel spreadsheet that uses UK polling and turnout to calculate how the regional seats will be distributed, which some of you may be interested in. The eligible voters are from the ONS's 2012 electoral roll, the vote share is the 5-10 likelihood to vote from the latest Comres poll and the turnout % are from 2009's election. Sometimes there's a draw in which case all parties involved get the seat, simply adding 0.1% onto one or two parties' share should fix it. It shouldn't take too much work to convert it into a calculator for any other country so long as they also use the D'Hondt proportional method.
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May 1, 2014 17:32
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KoldPT posted:Oh hey, I had no idea this thread existed. uh oh I agree with UKIP (that IMF loans are A Bad Thing)
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May 1, 2014 17:54
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Orange Devil posted:Nope, and that's quite bad. Really? I wish we didn't have to vote for the President so we could concentrate on less personality focused elections, like parliamentary elections.
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May 1, 2014 17:54
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Kurtofan posted:Really? I wish we didn't have to vote for the President so we could concentrate on less personality focused elections, like parliamentary elections. That's why our labour party got a bunch of votes due the nice rear end of their leader a few elections back I suppose.
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May 1, 2014 18:18
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Phlegmish posted:The EU has a serious democratic deficit, but the example you're using doesn't make much sense. By the same logic, any country with electoral districts (i.e. almost every democracy in the world except for the Netherlands, Italy and Israel) is actually non-democratic. But electoral districts are bad for democracy? It artificially limits the "choice" of the people by imposing artificial barriers to entry for new political parties. If some hypothetical party got 1% of the vote in every european country under the current system they would end up with 0 seats where clearly they should end up with 7 or 8 seats. A district system is better than nothing, but it is not very democratic. Just like census suffrage is better than straight up feudalism, but far from ideal.
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May 1, 2014 18:40
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NihilismNow posted:But electoral districts are bad for democracy? That's patently untrue. European Parliament has 766 members. Currently there's 7 party-coalitions in parliament + independents. If each had candidate for all spots: 766 * 8 = 6128. To elect them from one district you would have literally thousands of candidates to choose from and that's with ignoring parties that didn't get in at all! How could you possibly do a meaningful choice among them?
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May 1, 2014 18:58
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NihilismNow posted:But electoral districts are bad for democracy? That's why some proportional systems have most seats decided regionally, but then have a significant number that are distributed proportionally based on the national vote. I think that's pretty close to the best system; having most politicians accountable to a specific subset of people is healthier for democracy than all politicians accountable to the entire population imo.
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May 1, 2014 18:59
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NihilismNow posted:But electoral districts are bad for democracy? It's not like that 1% wouldn't buy them any political mandate. They wouldn't be eligible for the European parliament (or most of the national parliaments for that matter) but that 1% would buy them a lot of seats at the municipal and regional level. Is it unfair? Sure, in a better world one seat would be the barrier to entry. In the European parliament that would mean you would only need slightly beneath 0.125% of the total vote to get a seat. This isn't how it works though because most European governments favour stability over some sense of fair play. Here in Sweden for example to barrier to entry for the national parliament is 4%. Anything below that and you don't get a single seat in the swedish Riksdag.
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May 1, 2014 19:03
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Alecto posted:You can vote for people who will join Tsipras's bloc, who will work with him and support him, just like almost every democracy in the world. In the case of the Netherlands, the International Socialists and Socialist Alternative. Not to be pedantic or whatever, but I have no idea why you'd mention these groups. I don't think anyone can actually vote for either of them in any sort of election. They're tiny Trotskyist groupuscules whose main claim to fame is that they engaged in entryism in the Dutch Socialist Party and were subsequently kicked out. Their main political activity is selling newspapers at protests.
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May 1, 2014 20:06
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itsnice2bnice posted:Not to be pedantic or whatever, but I have no idea why you'd mention these groups. I don't think anyone can actually vote for either of them in any sort of election. Well, Orange Devil very much appeared to be from the Netherlands and according to Wikipedia, these are the only two parties from the Netherlands who are members of GUE/NGL. Do they not run candidates anymore?
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May 1, 2014 20:09
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Junior G-man posted:You can't! Do you have a link about this? They were in GUE/NGL in the previous election according to wikipedia.
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May 1, 2014 20:23
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Alecto posted:Well, Orange Devil very much appeared to be from the Netherlands and according to Wikipedia, these are the only two parties from the Netherlands who are members of GUE/NGL. Do they not run candidates anymore? They're such nonentities that they don't even run candidates for local elections, let alone the national or European parliament. FartGhost posted:Do you have a link about this? They were in GUE/NGL in the previous election according to wikipedia. I'm pretty sure they still are.
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May 1, 2014 20:33
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FartGhost posted:Do you have a link about this? They were in GUE/NGL in the previous election according to wikipedia. It all seems a bit complicated, they are members of GUE/NGL, but not affiliated with the Party of the European Left(which is why I couldn't find them on wikipedia), which is the main body of GUE/NGL.
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May 1, 2014 20:47
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IceAgeComing posted:Scotland has six MEPs currently, and will vote on six in this election, the first time that Scotland hasn't lost a seat since the move to PR in European elections in 1999. A little warning on the polling numbers: these are the latest I could find and are over a month old. I saw the Scotsman reporting something but it sounded like they were using the cross breaks on a UK poll to report on the Scotland picture, which means that it probably has a sample size of 50 and therefore is useless... If anyone has some newer, proper polls, then I'd be interested and could update the post. Great post! And your polling wish has been (sort of) granted, in the shape of a much larger YouGov poll than usual which gives a ~500 sample size for the Scottish cross-break. That's still not great, and it's not guaranteed to be representative (as only the whole sample is weighted to attempt that) but it might be the best we get currently. The numbers: code:UKIP and the Tories are clearly not nearly as popular as they are in England, but it's possible they might both end up with an MEP in Scotland. (The Lib Dems can get hosed everywhere forever)
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May 1, 2014 21:52
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Seen this make the rounds on Twitter today. For a predictable rewrite of a classic Python sketch, it's still funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2vufQIxLvw
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May 2, 2014 23:42
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Not so much funny as it is laughable. Who cares about rampant unemployment and the destruction of the welfare state brought on through forced austerity? Or that the euro is a dismal failure that could collapse if even a single country withdrew from the Eurozone? Mobile phones are cheap and it's easier than ever to act as cheap labor in other EU countries! If that along with poo poo like road maintenance (WTF) and enviromental laws are the best justifications for such an expansive and expensive project as the EU, then you guys are in pretty bad shape. The ending note that some bureaucrats in Brussels are the only thing that's keeping the rabble from descending into ethnic genocide is also quite charming.
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May 3, 2014 09:51
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Yeah, who cares about competitive market prices, consumer protection, standing up to bullshit being forced onto us like ACTA, free travel and anti-discrimination laws, along with safeguarding human rights? The EU has its failings but it's doing a hell of a lot better than many national governments in Europe. vv True enough, but instead of comparing the USA to the EU we should try to imagine a Europe without EU and see what the EU has added to Europe. The answer will invariable be "A lot of things we take for granted". Deltasquid fucked around with this message at 13:22 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 12:57
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People from America will always try to come up with reasons why the EU is awful. People from Europe will always try to come up with reasons why America is awful. Both excel at their own things, and fail at others. Usually the sides excel at the opposite of the other, hence the contstant back and forth. Common currency amirite? lol welfare state. *dies from easily preventable disease* lol freedom of work and travel why would you want to be a wage slave *lives in an at-will employment state* Lol police brutality and minority abuse *votes against muslims building mosques* omg you spend 50% of your gdp on the military industrial complex *shits pants when russia looks in his direction*
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May 3, 2014 13:09
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I'm not American.Deltasquid posted:Yeah, who cares about competitive market prices, consumer protection, standing up to bullshit being forced onto us like ACTA, free travel and anti-discrimination laws, along with safeguarding human rights? The EU isn't exactly a strong economic powerhouse that has led us all to prosperity through sound economic policy as recent years have shown. The adoption of the euro was a mistake and being tied to a shared currency with Germany clearly cripples the ability of Southern European countries to compete. The rest of the things you mention don't require a bloated supranational bureaucracy like the EU in any way. The state of consumer rights was fine where I live, any nation can decline to sign the ACTA, the Schengen agreement existed prior to the EU of today and it's not like discrimination and the abuse of human rights was rampant around here prior to the Lisbon treaty. Deltasquid posted:The EU has its failings but it's doing a hell of a lot better than many national governments in Europe. This must explain the EU's widespread popularity then.
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May 3, 2014 16:21
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Junior G-man posted:You can't! Um no SP is a part of GUE/NGL. http://www.guengl.eu/people/meps
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May 3, 2014 17:06
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Is it me or is Scotland much more to the left than the rest of the UK?TinTower posted:Seen this make the rounds on Twitter today. For a predictable rewrite of a classic Python sketch, it's still funny. Ah yes because European countries that aren't Germany or France can't improve roads, have quality control, ease travel requirements or make student programs. Portuguese people could study in the loving GDR in the 80's and we still can study in the U.S., Brazil or Japan for nearly free via university programs but i guess that's only because of our Teutonic masters, since we're too brown to do those things. But hey, i can be used as dispensable work-force in Germany, that's amazing! An obliterated industry and agricultural sector, youth unemployment at horrifying numbers, a majority of workers surviving on 3 to six month contracts or literally no contract at all (which means no work laws either OR if they have a job at all), a barely functioning wellfare state and emigration numbers that are resembling the times we lived in a dictatorship. What could we do without the EU?
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May 3, 2014 18:42
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Alecto posted:Yeh, unfortunately in the UK the only party with a chance of winning anything that is a member of GUE/NGL is Sinn Fein. The Greens, SNP and Plaid are all members of the fusion EG-EFA coalition. The Greens obviously because one of the parties that formed the coalition was The Greens, and Plaid and the SNP because the EFA was essentially just a party of European regions seeking independence from their larger country/union. Thanks for this. Just to fill in the Northern Ireland gap here is a projection for how Northern Ireland's three seats will be distributed courtesy of Lucid Talk. Northern Ireland uses STV which makes it rather difficult to make accurate predictions, trying to figure out how transfers and surpluses will distribute can be a frustrating process. To give a break down on the individual parties: Sinn Fein (GUE/NGL) The only party expected to secure a seat purely by first preference votes. Probably the best known Northern Irish party outside of the region,they oppose austerity and have based their European campaign on a promise to fight for increased regional funding for development and agricultural programs. Although they are a socialist party they have been tacking towards the centre in recent years under the influence of a reforming faction eager to win over urban middle-class Catholic voters, a shift which has created tensions between the more youthful left-wing branch of the party active in the Republic and the parties traditional Northern leadership. Ulster Unionist Party (ECR) Northern Ireland's grand old party, the face of establishment Unionism since 1905. They have been in continual political decline since the Good Friday Agreement and have seen their share of the vote collapse as Unionist voters defected to the more extreme Democratic Unionist Party. The European elections are one of the few areas where they still perform well, thanks largely to the reputation of Jim Nicholson who has successfully secured a seat for the party at every European election since 1989 (even in 2009 when the UUP and Tories ran on a single ticket). They pretty much follow the pro-Europe wing of the Tories when it comes to policy regarding the EU. They are expected to secure a seat but a steady decline in first preference votes means that they are reliant on transfers from minor parties. Democratic Unionist Party (Non-Inscrits) Northern Ireland's largest party, a more extreme Unionist party founded by grass-roots Unionist activists in the early 1970's opposed to the UUP's attempts to de-escalate the Troubles through limited power-sharing with moderate nationalist groups. The DUP traditionally drew their support from the sizeable Protestant working class (while the UUP where very much a party of the middle class) but in recent years it has absorbed much of the UUP's power base and has assumed it's position as the party of establishment Unionism. It's close relationship with regional business interests have brought it a lot of negative attention in the last 2 years with accusations of corruption in the awarding of government contracts plaguing the party. Largely pro-EU (especially when it comes to Agricultural and development funding) but resistant to expanding the EU's powers as they fear this could endanger NI's legal prohibitions on abortion and force NI to legalise gay marriage. Expected to a win a seat but again they are reliant on transfer votes to cross the threshold. Social Democratic and Labour Party (PES) The second-largest nationalist party in NI, more moderate than SF with an electoral base rooted in the Catholic middle-class, more left-wing than Labour but still a party of the centre-left. Have been in steady decline since 1998 with SF supplanting them as the largest nationalist party, they have however managed to successfully fend off SF challenges in the Catholic-majority city of Derry (NI's second largest city). Pro-European in every way. Not expected to win a seat on first preference votes but with the Unionist vote currently split between multiple competing parties some observers think they may be able to secure a seat if SF's surplus and minor party transfers go their way. Traditional Unionist Voice (Non-Inscrits) A Unionist party even more extreme than the DUP. Founded by former DUP MEP Jim Allister after he resigned from the party in opposition to them entering a power-sharing government with SF. Rabidly Euro-Sceptic, they believe Brussels is a city filled with godless abortion-loving terrorist-hugging heathens. Not expected to win a seat but in the 2009 European Election the TUV managed to poach 14% from the DUP, plunging them beneath the threshold for automatic selection. With conservative Unionist anger building off the back of the Flag protests there is a chance the TUV could poach more votes from the DUP and split the Unionist vote even further, a nightmare scenario for the DUP. Alliance (ALDE) A non-sectarian cross community party originating from the Liberal wing of Unionism, officially takes no position on the Uninonist v Nationalist question. Affiliated with the Lib Dems in the House of Commons, have consistently campaigned for shared education and a reduced corporation tax. Their profile (and vote share) has increased in recent years with their leader, David Ford, being made the regional Minister of Justice. In the 2010 general election they spectacularly took First Minister Peter Robinson's Belfast East Constituency with an amazing 20% swing. Have come under attack recently (literally) from Loyalists after they voted in favour of restricting the number of days the Union Jack could be flown from Belfast City Hall. For the European elections their candidate is Anna Lo, the only ethnic-minority member of the Northern Ireland Assembly who has recently stated in interviews that she favours a United Ireland. They are expected to increase their vote share but fail to gain a seat, exactly how many votes they gain will be interesting to see. N121 (Non-Inscrits) Another Unionist party, this time a non-sectarian liberal one. Founded by two rebel UUP members who opposed forming an electoral pact with the DUP to prevent SF profiting from a split in the Unionist vote. This is their first European election and they are heavily targeting middle-class protestants, specifically 20-30 year old's who have never voted. Again, not expected to take a seat but may split the Unionist vote even further - this time poaching more liberal voters from the UUP. Conservatives (ECR) The Tories. They will not win. They decided to field a candidate after the UUP rejected forming another electoral alliance realising it would be political suicide. The coalition's benefits cuts will hit Northern Ireland the hardest, the Northern Irish assembly have been doing everything in their power to delay the implementation of the cuts and are now being threatening with a reduction to the Assemblies block grant as punishment. gently caress 'em. The Greens (Greens/EFA) The Greens. Sometimes I forget these guys exist. UKIP (EFD) Nobody cares about you UKIP. Just go away. kustomkarkommando fucked around with this message at 18:53 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 18:44
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Mans posted:Is it me or is Scotland much more to the left than the rest of the UK? When polled there isn't an enormous difference in political views, there is simply a political party and/or movement which wants to talk about it a bit more, Overton window ect. The UK overall still has socialist beliefs, with even a majority of Conservative voters wanting renationalisation of rail and energy. Westminster is just staggeringly neoliberal and FPTP removes any real choice. twoot fucked around with this message at 19:28 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 19:26
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Its not like the SNP is very leftwing: but because it supports things like free tuition and the like, then the other parties have to talk about it. The parliament isn't very powerful and general elections are anti-Tory before any issues are talked about: so it is hard to say. I think that, sadly, a rightwing party would have a chance in an independent Scotland, because the UK Tory menace wouldn't be there anymore...
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May 3, 2014 19:40
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Mans posted:Is it me or is Scotland much more to the left than the rest of the UK? It's not just you. Scotland voting differently to the rest of the UK has been a running theme since 1945 at least, and the resulting tensions have been a big part of why Scotland has its own devolved parliament now. And a big part of why we're having a referendum on our independence this September. You might be able to debate to what extent this is because the Scottish people are genetically programmed to yearn for full communism or because the Conservative party is still tainted with the image of Thatcher, but it's still a noticeable difference. I don't want to infect this thread with the Scottish referendum one so I'll just say that the difference between how Scotland and the rest of the UK votes in this election is going to be made a big deal of by everyone on either side of the referendum debate. Particularly UKIP, who are going to do a lot better south of the border than north of it. If UKIP don't get a seat here while making significant gains in the rest of the country, it's going to be trumpeted as a clear symbol of the political divide by the Yes camp. Also if the SNP lose seats then doubtless the No camp will claim this as a symbol of Scotland's rejection of independence. I'm sure the people of Scotland will vote entirely on the basis of what policies they want the European Parliament to vote for, though, and not take the opportunity for protest votes and trying to send messages to governments in other parliaments. If there's one thing we understand across the UK it's how important the EU elections are.
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May 3, 2014 19:46
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itsnice2bnice posted:The rest of the things you mention don't require a bloated supranational bureaucracy like the EU in any way. The state of consumer rights was fine where I live, any nation can decline to sign the ACTA, the Schengen agreement existed prior to the EU of today and it's not like discrimination and the abuse of human rights was rampant around here prior to the Lisbon treaty. They don't need the EU, but my country sure as hell wasn't getting around to improving consumer rights until the EU did. Any nation can decline to sign ACTA, too bad many didn't and the USA pressured those who resisted. Technically you don't NEED the EU to do any of these, in the same way that my city might declare independence and do all of that poo poo for me. But many won't. Also, your second statement is almost impressive in its redundancy. You must realise popularity has nothing to do with effectiveness and sound policy in politics, right? Unless you think Raegan was the best US president ever.
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May 3, 2014 23:28
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Europe has to present a united front if we want to maintain geopolitical relevance. If we're separated, with the exception of maybe Germany we will become quickly irrelevant when Brazil, India, China, Pakistan, etc really start to shift the world's decision centers. The thing is, the failure of the EU has probably poisoned that project for a couple generations. It doesn't matter that Erasmus is a thing, or that the Europarl struck down ACTA, because overall the EU has undeniably reached its end (in this form at least). I'm still pro-Europe, but pretty much entirely out of starry-eyed idealism rather than any belief that the current european system can improve living conditions for the continent.
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May 3, 2014 23:52
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Mans posted:Is it me or is Scotland much more to the left than the rest of the UK? But at the same time, every party in the Scottish Parliament is fairly liberal in their economic policy bar the 2 Green MSPs. There were a handful of socialists a decade ago, but their party dissolved into 2 and now nobody cares anymore. Which was a nuisance. And some of the SNP MSPs are fairly right wing, either economically or socially. My own MSP for instance, Fergus Ewing, voted against the bill for gay marriage, and he wasn't the only one, there's definitely a small but not insignificant socially conservative element to the party. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 11:47 on May 4, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 00:17
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Yeah i wasn't implying Scotland was socialist, just more to the left of the Tory, Daily Mall fun zone  thanks for the replies, Scotland's political views are not exactly well spread around here.
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May 4, 2014 02:02
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Deltasquid posted:They don't need the EU, but my country sure as hell wasn't getting around to improving consumer rights until the EU did. Any nation can decline to sign ACTA, too bad many didn't and the USA pressured those who resisted. Technically you don't NEED the EU to do any of these, in the same way that my city might declare independence and do all of that poo poo for me. But many won't. You could encourage engagement in politics and strengthen civil society in your country in order to protect your rights and hold your politicians accountable, instead of putting your faith in an external party which is even less accountable to your country's electorate. Deltasquid posted:Also, your second statement is almost impressive in its redundancy. You must realise popularity has nothing to do with effectiveness and sound policy in politics, right? Unless you think Raegan was the best US president ever. The public's lack of enthusiasm for the EU project is directly tied to the EU's visible failures and its lack of noteworthy accomplishments. But there's a great quote from the current president of the European Commission related to this sentiment: "Decisions taken by the most democratic institutions in the world are very often wrong." You imply that Reagan might not have been the best US president, despite what his popularity might indicate. But so what? It doesn't matter if a democracy makes what you or I think is the "right" or "wrong" decision. What matters is whether people are in charge of their own country or if a bunch of equally incompetent but unelected technocrats are.
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May 4, 2014 09:50
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itsnice2bnice posted:You could encourage engagement in politics and strengthen civil society in your country in order to protect your rights and hold your politicians accountable, instead of putting your faith in an external party which is even less accountable to your country's electorate. What is the basis for your statement that the EU lacks noteworthy accomplishments?
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May 4, 2014 14:13
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Pesmerga posted:What is the basis for your statement that the EU lacks noteworthy accomplishments? In that vein, is the euro crisis a topic at MEP level at all or is that mess contained at the level of the council/the commission only?
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May 4, 2014 20:58
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Nektu posted:In that vein, is the euro crisis a topic at MEP level at all or is that mess contained at the level of the council/the commission only? It's definitely a topic, but it's more contained at the Troika/Eurogroup/Council level, so there's less play for MEPs to have a direct say.
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May 5, 2014 09:48
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As a UK person I'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem to be a party which is both opposed to further austerity in the EU and broadly supportive of NATO's presence in Eastern Europe in light of recent developments in Ukraine. It seems to me that these two qualities are both essential to coherently supporting social justice in Europe over the next term, but I have a sinking feeling that there aren't very many people who agree.
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May 5, 2014 17:05
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vegetables posted:As a UK person I'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem to be a party which is both opposed to further austerity in the EU and broadly supportive of NATO's presence in Eastern Europe in light of recent developments in Ukraine. It seems to me that these two qualities are both essential to coherently supporting social justice in Europe over the next term, but I have a sinking feeling that there aren't very many people who agree. Yeah it's the same in France.
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May 5, 2014 17:17
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vegetables posted:As a UK person I'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem to be a party which is both opposed to further austerity in the EU and broadly supportive of NATO's presence in Eastern Europe in light of recent developments in Ukraine. It seems to me that these two qualities are both essential to coherently supporting social justice in Europe over the next term, but I have a sinking feeling that there aren't very many people who agree. This is exactly what I think. Its why I don't like many of the "mainstream" left parties in the UK: the Socialist societies at my uni have universally talked about how the Ukrainian government are "Fascists" which is just wrong. It seems as if some in the left are stuck in a cold-war mentality when anything involving Russia is concerned; with Russia being good and the west being bad. NATO's foreign policy is sometimes dodgy: but not in relation to Ukraine...
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May 5, 2014 18:12
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IceAgeComing posted:This is exactly what I think. Its why I don't like many of the "mainstream" left parties in the UK: the Socialist societies at my uni have universally talked about how the Ukrainian government are "Fascists" which is just wrong. It seems as if some in the left are stuck in a cold-war mentality when anything involving Russia is concerned; with Russia being good and the west being bad. NATO's foreign policy is sometimes dodgy: but not in relation to Ukraine... I don't really want to vote for Putin apologists either. World fuktd indeed. I guess I could vote for the Greens. Edit: lol from the Left Party website:  Their editorial basically says "Nato is as bad as Putin". At least they're not strictly pro-Putin I guess. Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 19:43 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 19:30
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The Greens in Scotland are anti-NATO; although that's more from the roots of the party (people involved in CMD and wider pacifist movements) while those from the left are anti-war only when it benefits them. The Greens are nowhere near perfect (I don't like their absolute opposition to nuclear power and would like to see nuclear be a part of the step away from dirty energy towards full renewables in the future); but they appear more genuine than the left do on foreign policy and European issues and its less likely that they'll fragment into many different groups between each election... I'm not sure what the French Greens are like (other than that they work with the Socialist Party), but I'd imagine that its probably quite similar since western Green movements generally came from the same place.
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May 5, 2014 19:46
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NATO is poo poo, though, Putin also being poo poo doesn't change that.
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May 5, 2014 21:10
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V. Illych L. posted:NATO is poo poo, though, Putin also being poo poo doesn't change that. There's honestly an extent to which I don't feel my opinion on it matters: if it's the case that people in Eastern Europe overwhelmingly support it and overwhelmingly believe it's a meaningful way for them to have the same level of social rights I enjoy in my country, I think it's more than reasonable to put any misgivings I have to one side. I don't naively believe NATO's extension to the Baltics was ever done for anything other than cynical reasons, and I don't believe it will continue for any idealistic reason either. But I don't think there's any meaningful way to say you believe in solidarity with all the peoples of the EU if your policy on defence pays no regards to their interests, and I think that NATO now very, very much is. I don't believe it's a discussion the Greens would even be interested in having, which is one of the reasons that I've been miserable today.
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May 5, 2014 22:10
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