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Electronico6 posted:Much. Further democratisation, like for example the simple act of people voting for the Commissioner. A Commissioner elected by the people, will further legitimize his role as a the not just the head of the legislative body of the EU, but also that of every citizen of Europe. A "President of the European Union" without the proper title, and making him far more important than any head of government and state. For Britons, for example, he would rank higher than Queen, for French, higher than the President of the Republic. The only place where "europe" comes into play in that arrangement is that they are all sitting at one table while doing that, and that they then release some cleverly worded statement as result that can be interpreted by each head of state as his own victory to show at home. Right now, they will never ever give up that kind of power to a european president or somesuch.
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Apr 24, 2014 19:34
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Pesmerga posted:What is the basis for your statement that the EU lacks noteworthy accomplishments? In that vein, is the euro crisis a topic at MEP level at all or is that mess contained at the level of the council/the commission only?
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May 4, 2014 20:58
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vegetables posted:As a UK person I'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem to be a party which is both opposed to further austerity in the EU and broadly supportive of NATO's presence in Eastern Europe in light of recent developments in Ukraine. It seems to me that these two qualities are both essential to coherently supporting social justice in Europe over the next term, but I have a sinking feeling that there aren't very many people who agree.  As long as merkel sits on the throne of europe, austerity will not go (so I guess the only way to vote against austerity is to do it on a national level in germany). A few months ago it looked as if Hollande together with the southern states was starting to form an alliance to break merkels predominace in the council. In the end, he joined the austerity crowd. Austerity will stay. Install Windows posted:Just add the US to the EU and you'll solve that problem. (Genius or armegeddon?)  -thing somewhere that the EU is EVEN NOW taking over the US.WHO IS LAUGHING NOW??? Nektu fucked around with this message at 07:13 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 07:10
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Teron D Amun posted:the german word for that behaviour is "solid arisch" I'd say that the severity of the remedy is a just sign about how dire the situation really is. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:Also why are we discussing the EuroParl elections when there's much more important voting taking place in Europe this Saturday;  And this thread started with such good intentions... Nektu fucked around with this message at 23:30 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 23:27
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LemonDrizzle posted:e: 500 million citizens, 375 million voters, ~600 people watching the presidential candidates debating. 
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May 9, 2014 22:46
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Kurtofan posted:15. Blank Vote Citizens ( party that wants blank votes to be counted alongside the non-blank ones) vvv: Ah. So that blank ballots are not counted as Nektu fucked around with this message at 10:36 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 08:25
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Lord of the Llamas posted:I think it's reading his statement way too literally, of course we are all aware there are earnings/cost of living differences across Europe. It's also wrong to claim that somehow the didn't apply (literally) to the countries where the majority of EU citizens live. The fact is that he was trying to highlight that there are many people in the EU who are struggling on low incomes. Nitpicking over the exact figures he used in his example is completely pointless.
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May 11, 2014 18:11
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Why don't you enlighten me. He sounds desparate and angry (with good reason), and does not seem to think that bruessels takes his situation seriously (they may take it seriously, but they cannot change it because austerity is literally the only solution anybody came up with to keep the euro alive at this point, so eh). I also doubt that your arguing of technicalities is helping... Nektu fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 18:54
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LemonDrizzle posted:You can't really blame the EP for actions taken by national governments - they're separate entities. The S&D have been quite vocal and consistent about their criticisms of austerity, and I don't really see any particular reason to doubt their sincerity. That even Hollande had to throw the towel IS a bad sign for the anti-austerity crowd... Nektu fucked around with this message at 09:24 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 09:22
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LemonDrizzle posted:I don't think you can assume that what was true in the past will remain true in future. The Parliament has gained a lot of power in recent years that it didn't previously have and may be effectively determining the composition of the Commission. That gives it indirect control over one arm of the Troika and the EU's executive body, which would further strengthen its position relative to the national governments. The authors evaluated minutes of council meetings from 2008 on (up to the beginning of 2014 when the book appeared) and describe the council's crisismanagement and how it came to pass. According to the book the euro has been incredibly brittle from 2008 on, and the council was basically continuously fixing minor or not -so-minor catastrophies that could have ended it already. At the same time the information that was given out to the media was/is very tightly controlled/shaped to avoid a rise of distrust in our currency. IMO the necessity for that type of control negates any chance that the EP will ever be included in descisions regarding the euro-crisis until the crisis has either blown over or blown up. It also contains a really interesting and detailed description of how laws are made in bruessels, how big the influence of the various lobbying organizations is (surprisingly (or should I say unsurprisingly) big) and how lobbying is actually done (lobby organizations have far reaching control over the information that MEPs and even the commission get to see). In the case of the commission this is institutionalized - all 30.000 "civil servants" of the commission gather information and write potential laws. In the end general-secretary Catherine Day decides which potential laws the commission (and then the EP) even gets to see. She very explicitly does not talk to reporters, however every lobby-organization is very welcome (apparently in accordance to the lisbon treaty). In the case of the MEPs the information control is more informal. For example new MEPs coming to bruessels dont know what the gently caress and tend to be completely overwhelmed. In the end the lobbyists explain their jobs to them. The same happens regarding technically complex topics (so, all of them ), where the lobbyists have the sovereignty of interpretation because there is noone else that can explain the grisly details. The book details that process using as example the development of laws to limit the potential damage should the major banks gently caress up again in the same way they did in 2008. Or, more to the point, the lack of such laws. Yeayea, I have to admit that all of that happens on a national level too. However the results that are achieved in bruessels have far more reach. Another notable point is that the organizations that traditionally influence politics with a more social point of view (the church and the unions) are completely missing in bruessels. I also have to admit that I picked the parts that are most annoying to me to write about here. All in all the book is fairly neutral in its presentation and absolutely worth a read. Actually it should be required reading before you go and vote next weekend. Personally I think that the rise of europe-scepticism is not necessarily a bad thing. It applies a kind of pressure to bruessels that has been completely missing for far too long. The only problem is that the pressure is not caused by the systematic drawbacks of the organization, but by something that they cannot really influence or adapt too. So in the end it may just cause havoc, and not a direction for development.
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May 18, 2014 22:24
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Electronico6 posted:Congratulations to Madame Christine Lagarde for her new job as President of the European Commission. quote:However, diplomats appear to suggest that the EU electorate would understand such a move, if it’s properly explained. GaussianCopula posted:The idea that one of those two clones gets to pick all the 28 commissioners is about as stupid as the idea that if the European Council pick another person to be President of the Commission it would be undemocratic. Last time I checked all those leaders were elected in democratic votes. It's still stupid for everybody because that would turn the elections into a useless charade. And it's stupid for everybody who is not living in germany because merkel has a disproportionate amount of influence in the council. Nektu fucked around with this message at 20:20 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 20:16
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Electronico6 posted:Oh France  (Ok, lets start in front national's headquarter then).
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May 21, 2014 20:18
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LemonDrizzle posted:"Nobody outside of Brussels knows who the parliament's candidates are or actually gives a poo poo about who gets the job, do they? Right, we'll just nominate whoever we like and none of the voters will know the difference."
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May 21, 2014 22:43
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LemonDrizzle posted:I particularly like the bit about eternal Franco-German economic supremacy with the other pretend european countries just getting to like it or lump it. LemonDrizzle posted:Regardless, if that last line reflects Merkel's sentiments then any parliamentary hopes for further integration/federalization/expansion of powers are dead in the water.
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May 22, 2014 08:52
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Junior G-man posted:I would be pretty, pretty surprised if Juncker actually got the job. Remember, the Lisbon Treaty does not say that the Council must take on board the EP candidate as the new Commission president, they just have to 'take them into account'. Technically the Council members could just read the paper this morning, think "hmm, Juncker ... Nope!" and they'd have done their mandated job. Comments from germany: Hooray, the election is a big victoy for us all, because it moved the power towards the voters and it's hardly conceivable that the council could deny Junker the post. 
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May 26, 2014 10:08
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Junior G-man posted:They sound incredible; from the Guardian live blog:  ("Hands off the german prick. NO to the EU-normed penis. YES to europe, NO to europe. Die Partei")
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May 26, 2014 14:46
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Mofstok posted:Cultural integration is a massive failure, the very state of the EU (economically and socially) attests to that fact. Then again, I don't expect you to actually be able to deal with it. Enjoy your leftist apocalypse. Kurtofan posted:What does cultural integration entail? Nektu fucked around with this message at 13:44 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 13:40
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GaussianCopula posted:People who believed that this was a real possibilty should check themself into a mental institution. There is no way in hell that the northern countries, not only Germany but pretty much every northern country, would agree to such a plan. The only chance eurobonds might have had is that not everyone on the street understands the idea and what they would do. However the question is if "want" would even factor into it. It all boils down to the amount of pressure that could be applied to germany in the council, and the price we would have to pay if we dont yield to that pressure (mostly I guess the price of losing the euro or changing it over to some kind of northern-only euro). Merkel has resistet that pressure for a long time now, but I'm not getting the impression that that's getting easier... GaussianCopula posted:Noone in Germany or Sweden or Denmark wants to control the southern states and there is no institutation in the EU that is controlled by the richer countries in the long run, especially if the southerners get access to Germany's creditcard. Edit: ok, maybe not considering that I talked about "pressure" above... Nektu fucked around with this message at 22:43 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 22:25
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quote != edit
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May 27, 2014 22:26
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Also regarding pressure that could be applied to germany, both obama and the chinese head-of-state personally met with merkel and reminded her of the importance of keeping the euro alive and stable. Otherwise they would have to pull out their funds. Now, continuing with the though from above, what would be worse: eurobonds (or -taxes or whatever) or that the big american and chinese investors start moving their money out of europe enmasse?
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May 28, 2014 05:02
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Junior G-man posted:Hahaha, it's staaaaartttiing! 
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Jun 4, 2014 09:12
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Mans posted:Non-German people aren't dead brain retards who can't figure out how to build lightbulbs or sofas. We used to have industry, once.  The problem is that its gone now. Industry does not appear out of thin air, it takes a LONG time (and massive funds) to build up production chains that are able to put out modern goods (at least if we talk about modern goods that could be exported to make hard currency, or even "only" about a simple car that could be bought without having to exchange a
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Jun 6, 2014 07:50
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Fados posted:You see, if Portugal did have the politicians capable of fighting for itself, it would be the motor of the change it needed in the union. Since the northern countries find the status quo pretty economically and politically agreeable at this moment, they have no prerogative for long-term change. It really is our fault for having a lovely political environment, probably caused by some national primitive cultural deficit. Since we aren't able to organize ourselves nationally and internationally to create political critical mass we need to abide by the rules. If these were really the better solutions for the issues of the majority of the EU, by virtue of the democratic process and of rational choice we should be getting them. If we can't get our poo poo together then we deserve to get eaten by the real-politik reality. In truth, they could think, the toughness of 'hard liberal reality' might even make us more hardened and adapted to the reality of today's society. In the long run, we if suffer enough, we might be able to function properly in the competitive economic and political spheres of capitalism.  Are you saying that you want the EU (or germany ) to invade, remove your government from office and install a new one (that maybe works)?Teron D Amun posted:East Germany being an "economic hellhole" is one of those popular myths that keep popping up but it doesn't make it any more true, what killed the industry were all the shady deals made afterwards by the Treuhand to sell the property for literally 1 DM vvvv:  I fear that you will have to do that revolution yourself. We can send peacekeeping troops. Nektu fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 6, 2014 |
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Jun 6, 2014 14:57
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ronya posted:the parts that matter
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Jun 6, 2014 18:46
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Randler posted:On the matter of personal wealth in Germany, there was a 2013 study (data mainly from 2010) with results that run counter to the popular image of wealthy Germans as opposed to a wealthy Germany.
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Jun 10, 2014 14:15
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Xoidanor posted:One in particular is just baffling to me.
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Aug 5, 2014 21:23
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Is this real? http://euobserver.com/justice/125474 (It probably is) Nektu fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 07:09
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Electronico6 posted:Dropped it's deposit rate to further negatives too! It's still not going to be enough. Recovery in the bailed out countries is already slowing down, Spain despite Lagarde's comments is still bad, and France keeps sinking down with no alternative policies in the near future. THIS is something new. Guess thats either Sigmar Gabriels starting to do SPD-inspired politics, or that the next phase of the euro crisis is finally coming to say hi... The Spiegel also did a rather large article qualifying Merkels style of politics as "populist". Which is nothing new I guess, but they never used that word before (or did they?). Nektu fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 21:08
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Electronico6 posted:That's something being cooked between Paris and Berlin, a fund(300 thousand million Euros is the figure thrown around) to re-industrialize Europe not just the struggling part, as a response to Draghi's actions. Where they going to find the money(And they are talking of not being state/public money) beats me. Nor does that figure seem enough, and I'm not sure if there's a point to re-industrialize Europe without following it with proper regulation so it all won't go away in a decade. Is there more information about this available? I'm kinda curious how "re-industrializing europe" is planned to suddenly work when industry has been moving out of europe into cheaper countries for a looong time now. Edit: vvvvvv You mean streets that work and bridges that will not fall down in a few years? I can get behind that... Nektu fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 21:39
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Orange Devil posted:Clearly Juncker is an accelerationist and has decided to run the EU into the ground. I guess the real question is, what part will turn out to be more powerful: the existing bruesselist system with its inherit drive for stability according to its internal rules, or the people that are now filling its holes (even if they are important holes) with their intensions of running that poo poo into the ground. Edit: vvv Exactly Nektu fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 21:07
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LemonDrizzle posted:So what's to be made of Germany finally making good on their threat to tear Ireland's economy up by the roots and turn the country back into a glorified potato plantation? Isn't that more of a (probably useless) attempt to better ones position when negotiating tax rates with the big players? But eh, divide and conquer, right? Put those fools against each other and watch while they fall other each other in their urge to undercut and sell themselves out cheap. (Yea, it will totally work, we are hosed)
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Sep 30, 2014 11:26
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LemonDrizzle posted:Funnily enough, Luxembourg is on the chopping block as well - their dealings with Fiat are under similar scrutiny to Apple's in Ireland and while Juncker may want to protect his homeland, both France and Germany are deeply pissed off by smaller countries trying to play beggar thy neighbour with corporation tax and essentially colluding with multinationals to rob the rest of Europe. Of course that won't work because they managed to ruin half of europe before achieving that and have no idea how to get out of that. Beggars can't be choosers....
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Sep 30, 2014 14:33
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Electronico6 posted:The EU will get right on that, just after it signs TTIP with the US and after most of Europe governments privatized their public services to Chinese and Russian corporations. I would be really interested to know if that poo poo is "just" ideologically motivated, or wether the people in power basically see that fight as a lost cause and follow the logic that its better to be the valued house-slave instead of one of the farmhands that die by the dozen each month.
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Sep 30, 2014 17:18
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Guildencrantz posted:Honestly, an American-style system with two different forms of representation - by population and flat per-state - seems like the most obvious solution. Even more appropriate than for America itself, in fact. The flat per-state model just means that all votes in a state for the party that didnt win in that state are lost when looking at america as a whole. You just would exchange one inbalance for another one. icantfindaname posted:If Germany refuses to subsidize the periphery then there's no reason for the periphery to stick around. It's actively detrimental to the economies of the periphery to do so. They would gain pretty much universally by balkanization. Germany would lose out, because the con would be up, but Spain and Greece would not lose out by ripping up the free trade agreements and common monetary policy But isnt it nice that "delayed filing of insolvency" turns from a criminal act into a policy when the commission does it  Nektu fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 20, 2014 19:01
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YF-23 posted:In both of those cases the whole sum of the punishment looks to be "they'll actually pay taxes" (and in the first one it's just a promise to pay the taxes while David Cameron was saying what a nice guy he is). Where the gently caress do you see them "getting done" in there? 
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Dec 30, 2014 22:29
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Fados posted:If your prefer to see the European Union like as a regular contract between profit seeking selfish states Fados posted:Yes, it was the responsibility of the the EU to supervise the budgeting of every state when they let them in the cheap money crackhouse. Eurostat was a loving joke before the crysis. Fados posted:If greek is left out to die in alone it will be a message for the kind of solidarity that the union is all about. You insist on xenophobically blaming the PIIGS when you are not prepared to be accountable for the democratic and structural deficiencies of the union itself.
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Jan 4, 2015 18:16
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Cat Mattress posted:It's also a theme that will play very well with Belgium, the Czech Republic, Portugal, Hungary, Sweden, Austria, Bulgaria, Denmark, Finland, Slovakia, Ireland, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus, Luxembourg, and Malta -- all member states of the EU with population in the same ballpark or lower than Greece's. Ardennes posted:The real irony is that it isn't much of a joke as far as Germans are concerned. As added bonus, adding turkey would at least fullfill the quota for autocratic governments and we wouldnt have to wait till we pushed greece into a fascist coup 
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Jan 5, 2015 22:34
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Torrannor posted:I think you will find that Hungary has already achieved Turkey levels of autocracy.
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Jan 6, 2015 17:06
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Lagotto posted:You barge into a thread about EU politics with a completely unrelated insane rant about them evil plotting Jews. Case closed.
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Jan 25, 2015 21:23
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^^^ Sad but trueOrange Devil posted:German Mass Gathering:
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Feb 6, 2015 18:37
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