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Virtually all groups besides the Green and Left alliance believe in austerity and only show concern about austerity because it's not giving economic growth, not because of actual social consequences and the Green and Left groups are mostly useless and believe they can work side by side with the major financial institutions of Europe to crate socialism. All neoliberal parties will pressure their militants to go vote for their favorite alliances, which they allways do, to create a parliament of privatizing lunatics who even consider sexual education to be propaganda to turn children into gay abortionists. Since people are disillusioned with their lives and national politics, much less European politics, this means they will allways win the elections no matter what. gently caress this parliament charade, if a national parliament is already composed of a healthy dose of idiocy and corruption i'm sure the solution is an exterior parliament with even wealthier idiots that play pretend politics. I'll be not giving a single gently caress about these elections but i guess it's good for a thread about it to exist. The Left Bloc and CDU's picks are quite good, intelligent people so i'm sure they'd do a great work if they were sent to a place that actually mattered 
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Apr 14, 2014 06:21
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From my perspective, i can vote for the CDU or Left Bloc since all the other suggestions are neoliberal drones. On the one hand, the Left Bloc goes so hard from tireless activists against capitalist oppression and exploitation to working alongside PS to actively defending the idea of a "debt pardon" under EU directions, which means still siding with the side that gave us such a beating of austerity in the hopes that the next centrist neoliberal parties won't continue the process of privatizations, money laundering and erosion of the well-fare state, which they will. On the other hand, CDU's stance of direct opposition to EU institutions is much more agreeable to me because it's clear that the future of the EU is this situation being the status quo with possible signs of becoming much worse with every inevitable crisis. However their stance is so worthless due to their isolation that not even a million Mans voting would matter. So i can vote for neoliberalism, protesters against neoliberalism but that don't reject neoliberal action in itself or opposition against neoliberalism but that it's clear at first that they'll be alone because they actually oppose EU authority and aren't fascist pieces of poo poo, which seems to be the standards of anyone who opposes the EU outside of the tail of Europe for some reason. And there's just no way to convince people to vote for this charade. With a system that seems to be built to hide out it actually works so that people are never really sure who has any kind of responsibility in Europe (expect for the lazy south\fascist Merkel), there's just no way to have personal motivation to vote, much less convince people to do so. I still believe the only change to the EU will happen when the poo poo hits the fan in national elections and the EU flips their poo poo and realize they need to change course.
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Apr 14, 2014 18:31
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Our minor groups are amazing, i wonder what minor groups you get in places like France or Germany with the country so turned to the right as-is. Rui Tavares' FREEDOM cult of personality is hilarious, PAN wants socialized medicine for animals, a lawyer (which actually made some good points from time to time) is pretty much trying to create a new CDS single-handedly, MAS acts like they need to public support or denounce literally everything in the world like they matter and the monarchists and fascists are retirment clubs for golf players and metal fans, respectively. And yeah, what matters is the debt, what the debt means and what our lives will be due to the debt, with the centrist parties doing enormous efforts to downplay the misery of the country. Basically: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Adp77ivpT8 Junior G-man posted:You really can't have your 'the EU is terrible and neoliberal but I'm not gonna vote in any direction to change or improve it' and eat it too. The only thing that not voting ensures is that the austerians and the fascists have an even bigger say, because the will turn out in droves for the next election. My optimism is that the European vote reaches 10% and only full on neoliberals reach power so we can accelerate the austerity cult process.
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Apr 15, 2014 17:53
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LemonDrizzle posted:Notable historical successes of accelerationism: Times where parties blinking to the left but turning to the right to work directly with the financial groups that impose the inequality and misery that is plaguing Europe has worked for the well-being of the working man: There will be change in the EU when people turn hard enough to give majorities to parties who oppose EU policies in their national elections. Not by choosing which person now deserves a five year vacation in Brussels for 4k euros a month.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:25
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LemonDrizzle posted:
They began winning elections by putting socialism\social democracy in the drawer and jumping on the Daily Mall-style propaganda and defending the pratices of the right. They don't have an unfairly bad rap from the left, they decided the interests of the working class (labor, if you will) should play second fiddle to winning elections and putting their boys in good jobs, meaning you can't depend on Labor to avoid pointless imperialistic wars, gutting the wellfare state or letting financial institutions run the country like a feudal state. The public was and still is lost about what it wants, a reaction of neoliberal economic policy being a disaster that is blamed on a supposedly bloated well-fare state. It's the job of a party to approach the common person and give him a political conscious about his surroundings and how the country can change for the better. That Labor, led by Blair, decided it was easier to just follow the right wing band wagon doesn't give him any credit. The Belgian posted:Yeah I know. I just support eurofederalism and he seemed the msot in favor of that. Although I wouldn't want the VLD running anything in Belgium, so I probably shouldn't let them them touch the EU either. Mayble I'll just vote green on every level for party that I dislike the least. The Belgian levels are going to be the most entertaining though, yeah.
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Apr 24, 2014 16:57
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 “Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.”
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Apr 28, 2014 17:58
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Is it me or is Scotland much more to the left than the rest of the UK?TinTower posted:Seen this make the rounds on Twitter today. For a predictable rewrite of a classic Python sketch, it's still funny. Ah yes because European countries that aren't Germany or France can't improve roads, have quality control, ease travel requirements or make student programs. Portuguese people could study in the loving GDR in the 80's and we still can study in the U.S., Brazil or Japan for nearly free via university programs but i guess that's only because of our Teutonic masters, since we're too brown to do those things. But hey, i can be used as dispensable work-force in Germany, that's amazing! An obliterated industry and agricultural sector, youth unemployment at horrifying numbers, a majority of workers surviving on 3 to six month contracts or literally no contract at all (which means no work laws either OR if they have a job at all), a barely functioning wellfare state and emigration numbers that are resembling the times we lived in a dictatorship. What could we do without the EU?
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May 3, 2014 18:42
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Yeah i wasn't implying Scotland was socialist, just more to the left of the Tory, Daily Mall fun zone  thanks for the replies, Scotland's political views are not exactly well spread around here.
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May 4, 2014 02:02
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vegetables posted:As a UK person I'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem to be a party which is both opposed to further austerity in the EU and broadly supportive of NATO's presence in Eastern Europe in light of recent developments in Ukraine. It seems to me that these two qualities are both essential to coherently supporting social justice in Europe over the next term, but I have a sinking feeling that there aren't very many people who agree. The last thing the EU needs is to send soldiers to defend the interests of a specific oligarchs against other specific oligarchs. Or maybe it is what the EU needs, since the first day people start dying in some worthless steppe in Ukraine because Merkel wants her new market austere and open for business will be the day people will start to get really really pissed off with the EU. There needs to be a separation between the foreign policy of the EU and the United States. It's bad enough we went along with the Americans into worthless wars in the Middle East and suffer metro bombings because of it, if they and Russia care so much about reviving the Cold War then let them play pretend war, just leave EU citizens out of it. Any kind of military dick waving regarding Ukraine and Russia will "justify" increased military spending, which will always fall on the backs of the working class. Focus on fighting austerity because that's actually fighting a good war. If i recall correctly pretty much every EU nation has it's own snowflake of combat fighter, meaning a "centralized" air force would be this giant ball of assorted aircraft, with entire airfields porpuse built just to make sure each plane can get their own supplies and spare parts. Mans fucked around with this message at 00:35 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 00:30
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Random Integer posted:He didn't say anything about getting involved in Ukraine so this is a pretty disingenuous argument to make. vegetables posted:As a UK person I'm very frustrated that there doesn't seem to be a party which is both opposed to further austerity in the EU and broadly supportive of NATO's presence in Eastern Europe in light of recent developments in Ukraine. It seems to me that these two qualities are both essential to coherently supporting social justice in Europe over the next term, but I have a sinking feeling that there aren't very many people who agree.
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May 7, 2014 15:13
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152829614042519&set=a.70689967518.97121.681952518&type=1&theater I guess the left is just that desperate for votes 
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May 8, 2014 02:08
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Electronico6 posted:
Schultz is the dear leader of the socialist party. It's obvious he doesn't have a clue about how an actual common citizen lives his life.  What's the collective noun for a group of muppets?
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May 11, 2014 02:24
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Outside of Germany and France a thousand euros is a massive amount of Euros for the common worker. Schultz only knows the reality of Germans and the interest of Germans, but anyone who believes otherwise is voting out of self-illusion. I'm part of the "living with 500 euros a month" crew. We are a p. big crew outside of Merkelandia.
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May 11, 2014 04:06
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Lord of the Llamas posted:Luxembourg, France, Belgium, Ireland, Netherlands, UK, and Germany account for nearly half the population of the EU (~235 million out of 500 million) and you get well over that threshold if you include countries with a high cost of living (and no minimum wage listed according to the wikipedia page) such as Denmark, Finland, Sweden, and Austria (another 28 million or so). So I think it's hardly controversial to say that an average EU citizen would be struggling on 1000 Euros a month since more than half of EU citizens live in countries where this would be a below minimum wage income for a full time job. This doesn't even include Italy where presumably 1000 Euros a month won't go that far either. Yes, Schultz is talking from the mind-set of NW Europeans. You can't see why this is problematic to someone that isn't in NW Europe? When you live in South or Eastern Europe where a thousand euros puts you well above the average wage trying to appeal to the struggle of living "with just a thousand euros a month" is either insulting or confusing as hell.
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May 11, 2014 17:05
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Nektu posted:I dont think that he wants to talk about the finer points of how much income is "low" (that of him and his buddies is far below that "low"). This and again, talking about the hardship of living with a thousand euros literally makes about 50% of the European population turn it's head in confusion. It's the way he expressed himself that gives us concern, because it shows that he's talking to a NW audience, to NW hardships and giving weak-hearted arguments regarding austerity but never actually says "yeah this stupid thing has run it's course and we need a serious economic change in the EU". LemonDrizzle posted:Yes. The S&D are anti-austerity and have a good chance of taking the greatest number of seats. If our future are private education, private healthcare, bare bones public sector, massive taxes on everyone without a clear explanation to where our taxes go and our country being nothing more than a tourism\service sector colony, without barely any industry, agriculture or even fishing, what is the difference between "austerity" and "not-austerity but still living as you were in austerity times"? We know that from S&D rightwards this is not a concern to them, but S&D keeps toeing a line where they oppose austerity yet there's no indication of what they would do different.
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May 12, 2014 20:24
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Just make economic unions based on how much sun that country gets. Southern Europe+ Turkey and Southern France gets a union where everyone is tanned and happy, Germany, Benelux and Scandinavia have their freezing cold union and Britain can stand proudly alone with their never ending rain.
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May 12, 2014 21:20
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The prohibition of public debates is the only way someone like Nuno Melo can run without embarrassing himself.
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May 14, 2014 02:33
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The left might be losing the war against an unexplicable rise of the far-right, but dammit, we're producing some young and pretty faces for the European   Sooner or later, when we're dragged to the camps due to our Judeo-Bolshevism, we'll at least die knowing that drat, we look much better than the EPP and assorted not-fascists-but-who-are-they-kidding-fascist European parties. Tsipras' love for Mario Soares is troubling. He should know no one on the left likes that old corrupt piece of poo poo and all the tools that like Soares will vote for whoever PS orders them to vote for, meaning all he did was for nothing. It mostly wasn't hs fault, the Left Bloc and Semedo probably threatened Tsipras at gun point to meet Soares because they're desperate to become PS-lite. Let's see hope Tsipras has actual good intentions in him and isn't just another person who likes to blink to the left while turning to the right.
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May 17, 2014 02:15
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Electronico6 posted:As the years pass by, walking out of the EU will stop being a real option, much like an American state can't secede even though it's a "State Right".
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May 22, 2014 02:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=928f8reUwec (velhos do restelo.avi) CDU will probably get a decent win in this election, hopefuly Tavares' socialite club won't last enough to actually reach any important polls, the Left Bloc finally gets their heads out of PS's rear end and CDS collapses under the contradiction of being too far right not to be PSD but not being far right enough to compete with the silly parties that are rising on the right (well, rising might not be the best word, wiggling is far better). I don't actually care if some poo poo-hole like France sends out literal nazis to the EuroParliament since Merkel will decide the future of the EU no matter how much votes S&D grabs, might as well care about the future prospects for my country of a rising (actual) left wing opposition. Hopefuly SIRIZA grabs massive votes in Greece too, since they seem to be one of the few countries in Europe where people aren't looking at Mussolini statues and going "you know what, he wasn't that bad". At least, a portion of the populace isn't doing it in enough numbers to still vote for a leftist party
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May 23, 2014 04:12
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Carbon dioxide posted:
The way goons talked about Holland i thought PVV was much bigger and the left was much weaker. Or is SP against austerity in the same way Hollande's PS was against austerity?
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May 23, 2014 17:17
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Does PAN still defend public national hospitals while not really discussing the SNS other than believing that shoving needles down your spine is good for you because ~~~~the orient~~~~? And why does PS and CDU lack an official link in that page? If you literally type CDU or PS + pt you'll get them in the first link.  Reddit is sabotaging the campaign of the socialists and communists?
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May 24, 2014 01:49
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To be honest i'm not sure most members of PT, PTP, PPV, PNR or PPM even know what digital freedom is. Or the the internet at all.
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May 24, 2014 02:44
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What these elections show is quite clear. A grand majority of the European population either don't have faith in the EU democratic process or are too apathetic to vote and of those that do vote, only a small, fundamentalist majority still believes that the current track is the right way to go, with most people falling into populist or literal fascist parties. Can't be happy about the election results, this represents gently caress all. Barely a quarter of the Portuguese population cared about it. The right, according to PS, suffered an "historical defeat", which is to say they elected one less crony than PS, and since that vacated seat went into Marinho Pinto of MPT, it means the right lost gently caress all. CDU got 2 seats as they expected. There were hopes of a third sit but allas, there was none. The Left Bloc got one pathethic voter turnout, a symbol of their on-going disastrous political process. LIVRE and MRPP, as was expected from the start, did their great work of existing to take away votes from actually important leftist parties. I assume most people vote on MRPP as a form of ironic voting, but the 2% that voted for Tavares fanclub did so out of genuine gullibility, failing to elect him AND stopping the Bloc from getting enough votes to stop a fascist sympathizing populist from going on a 5 year vacation to Brussels. There was a slight turn to the left in some European countries, mine included, which wasn't nearly as strong turn as it should have been after literal years of the working class getting pummeled in the face. It certainly doesn't compare to the harrowing increase of the far right, of the euro-skeptics and assorted terrible people, and it certainly doesn't compare to the great victor of the night, the abstention party. People don't have faith in EU institutions, parties are using the EU parliament results as propaganda pieces for whichever national elections are coming close and the EPP and S&D were maintained in dominance not because of any democratic faith in them but simply because the regular drones and clientele that vote for those parties were some of the only people who bothered showing up. There is no popular faith that democracy will change anything in the EU. That alone should put this charade to rest.
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May 26, 2014 07:31
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How many deputies does that mean?
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May 26, 2014 08:12
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Libluini posted:I'm incredibly unhappy because of this: gently caress. I'll be honest here, i can't say if a country that gives nazis a majority is worse than one that grabs an EPP one. The first are just dumb fucks who want change, whichever way it is, the latter looked at the last few years and said "you know what? I think we should keep this path" The Front National won't really give a poo poo about austerity packages to southern Europe, they'll mostly just want to get away from the mess. In a way, they can become decent useful idiots.
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May 26, 2014 12:28
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Electronico6 posted:There's still four seats to allocate, one of which might go CDU or MPT way. but PSD and MPT got one each too. PS grabbed the final one. The Bloc needs a new leadership if it wants to continue existing. CDU reinvigorated itself into a great political force in the last years and they don't show signs of slowing down while it's clear that Bloc voters are jumping to them and to LIVRE or simply not voting anymore. I don't really see a reason to have POUS, MRPP, LIVRE, MAS and the Bloc all competing to be the one true vanguard that will glue PCP and PS together but hey, some people just love to be the opposition to the opposition. Crameltonian posted:Yes let's just assume the far right will be useful idiots when has this ever gone wrong If both the far right and the "moderate" sociopath right are growing i will prefer the ones that are more idiotic and that will further turn the EU into an interesting mess. A slow, grinding austerity process is boring, if some idiots go and further prove that barely anything gets done in the EP, that French and German deputies openly have disgust for peripheral states and even they themselves want out it will improve to turn the EU into a more fun Agora of homophobia, xenophobia and blind privatization and force voters to finally vote in absolutely non retarded ways. This is a game of chess that must be played on the long run. No one expected any positive change in these elections, but in the future they might prove useful. At the very least they showed that for those that bothered voting, the populace is very much so on a different stance than those in power in Ireland, Greece, Spain or Portugal (in Italy they protest voted by voting on the ruling party which is weird as hell but somewhat understandable when you see that the ruling party isn't an EPP drone). France and Denmark are hosed, breaking eggs to make omelettes etc, etc...
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May 26, 2014 14:47
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How cute, a bunch of people arguing about how the only moral immigration controls are their immigration controls  There's more than enough land and wealth to accommodate people used to living in absolute squalor in war-thorn shitholes, as long as you don't gut their social support they won't turn into Front National strawmans. Also, we looted, enslaved, raped and bombed god knows how many Africans and Middle Eastern people for centuries. I think we can call it even by giving some of them a social project home and free education.
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May 27, 2014 01:13
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Ddraig posted:Have you been living somewhere else? The whole economic collapse in greece, rioting in the streets, huge sweeping austerity measures meaning that people are increasingly desperate for basic human needs like food, shelter and medical care. He's a middle-class German who votes CDU. He IS living somewhere else. Mofstok posted:Jesus, so much self-pity and upper middle-class angst in this thread. So a large and significant amount of voters actually bothered to pitch at the polls and vote for a party whose principals you don't agree with, and now everyone who did so sucks and deserves to be shot in a fast food store because they are far-right. What a bunch of pussies. Not all opinions deserve respect, specially when those opinions cause terrible damage on a society, as is being seen in my country. Shove your upper middle-cass accusation up your dirty little rear end. El Perkele posted:Please tell me what part of Africa or Middle Earth the Estonians, Latvians and Swedes were busy bombing and pillaging tia GaussianCopula posted:The idea that we are forever in a moral debt because at some point our forefathers did some really lovely things is absurd to me. By that idea you could argue that the citizens of Rome are in debt to all of europe because they subjugated them (well western europe and a small part of Germany), that Greece is in debt to Egypt and the middle east and so on. It would be pretty silly for a Roman (even a retarded libertarian one) to reject that the very least Rome could do was give the subjected people's citizen rights so that at least some amends could be made after all of Rome's conquering and pillaging. We're not even talking about changing the entire political and economic structure of the world, we're talking about treating those that reached our land with human dignity and decency and give them jobs and a modest living. Unfortunately, we'll need to fight against the political apathy in Europe that allows EPP-drones to obliterate this continent.
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May 27, 2014 12:40
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Xoidanor posted:...and right there you hit the nail on the head. The reasons these nationalistic movements grow and are so popular among disenfranchised youth is because they feel that they have not been given exactly that. They feel that they're getting coldly shoved aside by a society that doesn't want them in favor of others who weren't even born in their countries. Mofstok posted:Terrible damage in your one-dimensional socialist perspective on life. You've got your head so far up your own arse you cannot see the wood for the trees: the current system is not working. Cultural integration is a massive failure, the very state of the EU (economically and socially) attests to that fact. Then again, I don't expect you to actually be able to deal with it. Enjoy your leftist apocalypse. Either English isn't your first, second or fifth language or you're high.
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May 27, 2014 13:44
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Geriatric Pirate posted:You're talking about the way austerity was implemented, which I don't have a strong view on - if there is corruption in the process or mismanagement it isn't the fault of the outsiders, turns out that some governments felt that the others coming in and saying which assets to sell and which workers to fire was too much of a violation of their sovereignity. In terms of selling assets though, I've never understood the D&D view on that which seems to be "you shouldn't sell off profitable government assets because they're profitable". Your unprofitable assets will fetch next to nothing. The price you sell the asset for (assuming no corruption in the process which, once again, is an issue of implementation) will reflect the lost revenues a profitable government asset produces. You have no idea what you're talking about and you probably can't even point where Southern Europe is on an atlas.
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May 28, 2014 15:26
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LemonDrizzle posted:Where are the credible non-corrupt Southern European politicians waiting to replace the current lot and when will they next be able to stand for election? Not getting media publicity nor bank donations to their parties, banks who were nationalized to save Germany's rear end? You understand that people vote not out of 100% rational and intelligent decisions but mostly due to propaganda, propaganda that is terribly effective at creating apathy and fear that change will make things worse? Lagotto posted:That is not fear mongering, that is realism, because that is exactly what Greece should have negotiated for. Greece had a choice, staying within the restraints of the EMU or exit. Of course you can blame the Greek electorate for that. More importantly, so that i may be clear of mind in the near future if this poo poo goes on, can someone go to Germany and shoot up Bavarians at random because all Germans are at blame for electing Merkel? People aren't robots, if facts were the basis of electorate decisions then the European Union wouldn't exist at all.
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May 29, 2014 01:34
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Lagotto posted:
Thank you for showing your true colors. Democracy isn't actually creating spaces for all people to feel confident in expressing their political, economic and social ideals, it's doing your best to impose a certain social order and make most who aren't comfortable with it either disfranchised or forced to vote for the parties whose media doesn't vilify as the harbingers of doom. You would love Marcelo Caetano, he had the same ideas of democracy as you. The idea that the majority of people in Portugal like the status quo is insulting to the point of deserving a slap. People that aren't voting don't do it because not even all the media brainwash in the world can hide the blatant corruption of the centrist parties, meaning they don't vote for them, but also feel like the alternatives on the left will make it worse (intentionally or by foreign attack), meaning they simply don't have faith in the democratic system. People aren't voting, either at national or European level, because they lost faith that the current nominal democratic institutions are too corrupt to change. Your definition of "Democracy" is actually called "Resignation".
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May 29, 2014 15:23
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Discendo Vox posted:That's very disappointing- I hadn't seen the elephant hunting as being particularly significant. Juan Carlos is basically my favorite ruler of all time; perhaps his health is worse than I'd thought. Like, the best king of Spain, the best king of all or literally the best person who has ever ruled anything anywhere? That's kind of a baffling choice in all aspects. He was a better ruler than Charles V or Philip II? Bitch, when was the last time Spain owned Amsterdam? 
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Jun 4, 2014 13:15
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Not his fault, which kingdom let a 24 year old with absolute power in charge and didn't contest marching outnumbered and outgunned into the desert against an Ottoman-back army? Dude let us have our own independent government, our own navy and monopoly over our trade routes. He basically took over and said "yeah just keep doing what you're doing, i don't care". He was a good Portuguese king. The rest of the Philips? Those can burn in hell
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Jun 4, 2014 13:31
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Electronico6 posted:Nah he was terrible. He ended up being the reason that England and Dutch turned hostile against Portugal, which led to French, Dutch, and English stealing all of our cool colonies in India and East Indies. Cool colonies that would make us totally rich, and powerful today.(Ignore that Portugal sat on some of the wealthiest parts of Africa for almost 400 years and did gently caress all with them) The French were already raiding and pirating our juices and i doubt the Dutch and even England would look at a bumfuck little country who for some reason owns enormous portions of the world and wouldn't mess with us. The losses in the Indies were an almost foregone conclusion even during Sebastian times, we just didn't have enough resources (we probably had but the loyalty-instead-of-competence-based government administrators of the colonies sucked them dry) to defend against European, Ottoman, Indian and Chinese pressure. After 1640 England was already established as a colonial power and let us go without much problem, true, but that's because they found beating the crap out of the Dutch, French and Spanish was more productive. If you look at the marriages our monarchs did it's hard to picture a future where we wouldn't find ourselves under a unified crown. We were asking for it
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Jun 4, 2014 14:29
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He "gave up" power because he realized he could live a social parasite for the rest of his life as long as the change into democracy was curtailed enough not to mess with the economic interests established by the dictatorship. It's almost like praising Cavaco Silva for appeasing all the poor oligarchs who had to flee after the revolution.
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Jun 4, 2014 19:45
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Ymel posted:As opposed to the alternative of running an absolute monarchy in Europe in the 1980's when all other autocracies in the region had collapsed? Transition to democracy was the only game in town, he just handled it so that no one of the previous regime was seriously endangered. Franco's people didn't want to end up dying in jail like the Greek colonels, that is all there is to it. GaussianCopula posted:You have to pay someone to be head of state anyway. But I'm not defending monarchies, they are loving stupid because it's loving stupid on so many levels. But Juan Carlos did help transitioning Spain from military dictatorship to democracy, in spite of terrorist organizations like ETA, who's campaign was one reason for first coup attempt in the 1980's. But he would probably get more credit from people like you if he stayed on as dictator and reformed Spain to look like Soviet Russia under Stalin.
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Jun 5, 2014 16:37
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ronya posted:believe it or not, there is value in a peaceful but unjust transition instead of a righteous but destructive revolution - not least of which, that revolutions kill a lot of innocent people too There is a value in sticking your nose up a donkey's rear end and inhaling while it takes the lousiest, foulest fart it ever took instead of simply farting onto your own hand and smelling it. There is certainly a middle term between "effectively maintaining the status quo in terms of economic and political priviledges of a bloody dictatorship" and "Stalinist dictatorship". The fact that even the Marxist-Leninist parties of the Iberian peninsula accepted a turn into liberal democracy so that society could be changed at short term without bloodshed shows that there was no intention anywhere, ignoring the U.S. and the right, of a dictatorship coming up once more. The Carnation revolution and the following process showed that it was possible to dispossess the assets of dictatorship oligarchs and, at the very least, have a serious discussion over land reform, without major bloodshed. "Hmm yes you see if you take away the toys of a coward who supported Franco he might get pissy, might as well give the king a blowjob for not doing anything." Torrannor posted:As long as you pay your debts in Euros, feel free to leave the common currency. We'll pay
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Jun 5, 2014 20:48
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Non-German people aren't dead brain retards who can't figure out how to build lightbulbs or sofas. We used to have industry, once.
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Jun 5, 2014 21:10
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