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Waroduce posted:Thats awesome thank you If you liked Flakeloaf's writeup, you should check out Justin Bourne's Systems Analyst posts over on the Backhand Shelf blog, it's post after post of breakdowns like that.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:47
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flakeloaf posted:An NHL goaltender should stop all of the shots he sees, so one common basic attack plan is to take the offensive zone, hit the goalie with the first shot, then send a wall of meat and swinging lumber towards the net in the hopes that the now-out-of-position goalie won't be able to stop the puck in the chaos. This is called "crashing the net", and it's usually pretty effective as long as the defense is negligent enough to let it happen. And when you wanna talk about negligent defense, you come to a Senators fan. Where the hell is the goalie at around 4:10?
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Apr 16, 2014 21:58
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Frostwerks posted:Where the hell is the goalie at around 4:10? Montreal pulled him for an extra attacker. You're allowed to do that whenever you want. It's a common tactic in the last few minutes of a game when you're down 1 or 2. Teams also pull the goalie on a delayed penalty (play only stops when the other team touches the puck) because it's impossible for the opponent to score unless the team puts it in their own net. And yes, that has happened.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:00
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Frostwerks posted:Where the hell is the goalie at around 4:10? Pulled. You can replace your goalie with an extra skater whenever you feel like it, but this is the most common scenario: you're down by 1 or 2 goals in the final couple of minutes of the 3rd period and you're desperately trying to tie the game. The extra skater improves your chances of scoring a goal but having no goalie obviously means a certain extra risk. Another time you usually see it done is during a delayed penalty; the opposing team is about to be penalized but the ref won't whistle the penalty until they get control of the puck. You can then pull your goalie relatively safely in order to try and score with the help of an extra attacker and get extra man-advantage time before the actual penalty is whistled. edit: thoroughly beaten 
Zat fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 22:01
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Ahh ok. When I didn't see him at the goal I started looking down the ice to see if he was down there because I figured that he was the extra attacker but I guess it makes more sense to have a dedicated player that's actually purposed for the task rather than someone in all that clunky gear. I'm sure it's happened at least once but has a goalie ever scored a goal?
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Apr 16, 2014 22:12
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Frostwerks posted:Ahh ok. When I didn't see him at the goal I started looking down the ice to see if he was down there because I figured that he was the extra attacker but I guess it makes more sense to have a dedicated player that's actually purposed for the task rather than someone in all that clunky gear. I'm sure it's happened at least once but has a goalie ever scored a goal? Yes. There was even one this past season. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB6TEDp94-k Slightly more often than goalies actually shooting it in the net you have goalies credited with a goal by being the last player on their team to touch the puck before the other team accidentally scores on themselves. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_goaltenders_who_have_scored_a_goal_in_an_NHL_game Martin Brodeur has the most with 3 goals in his career. He actually shot 1 of them. Ron Hextall is the only goalie to have more than 1 off his own shot. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 22:16
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Someone should do one of these for rugby too, explain the differences in rules and theory between league and union for us curious souls who don't go to SAS. Also, what the gently caress is up with cricket?
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Apr 16, 2014 22:18
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Frostwerks posted:Also, what the gently caress is up with cricket? Surprisingly easy to follow once you understand it's kind of like 5 games of baseball played back-to-back with one team batting 5 games worth of innings without changing sides, seeing how much they score and then the other team tries to beat it. Oh, and there is only one base, there are no balls and strikes and only 10 outs. Choose your swing carefully! This is the best beginner's video I've found, enjoy! - now back to hockey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naMJz2KlLoA MaoistBanker fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 22:31
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Frostwerks posted:Ahh ok. When I didn't see him at the goal I started looking down the ice to see if he was down there because I figured that he was the extra attacker but I guess it makes more sense to have a dedicated player that's actually purposed for the task rather than someone in all that clunky gear. I'm sure it's happened at least once but has a goalie ever scored a goal? It's worth mentioning that it is actually a penalty for the goalie to skate with the puck past center ice. Hall of Fame goaltender turned coach Patrick Roy got busted for not knowing that once: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=429QFwN8Yy4
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Apr 16, 2014 22:58
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:It's worth mentioning that it is actually a penalty for the goalie to skate with the puck past center ice. Hall of Fame goaltender turned coach Patrick Roy got busted for not knowing that once: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=429QFwN8Yy4 dekes Wayne Gretzky while doing it too..
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Apr 16, 2014 23:33
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Shadow Ninja 64 posted:It's worth mentioning that it is actually a penalty for the goalie to skate with the puck past center ice. Hall of Fame goaltender turned coach Patrick Roy got busted for not knowing that once: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=429QFwN8Yy4 It's a penalty for the goalie to cross center ice and participate in the play at all, actually! I thought it was even more harsh, and he couldn't cross the line, but he actually has to participate (play the puck or check somebody, whatever that means) for it to be a penalty. I'm not sure how exactly the NHL defines "check;" you can check someone without ever coming into contact with them simply by being in the way.
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Apr 16, 2014 23:40
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Lawnie posted:It's a penalty for the goalie to cross center ice and participate in the play at all, actually! I thought it was even more harsh, and he couldn't cross the line, but he actually has to participate (play the puck or check somebody, whatever that means) for it to be a penalty. I'm not sure how exactly the NHL defines "check;" you can check someone without ever coming into contact with them simply by being in the way. If the penalty was for crossing centre ice at all then teams wouldn't be able to pull the goalie during the second period!
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Apr 16, 2014 23:42
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Rule 24.3 allows a shooter on the penalty shot to be chosen "from the players on the ice at the time the foul was committed", which to me includes the goaltender.
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Apr 16, 2014 23:50
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So what the hell happened to the Sabres this year? Living in upstate NY, I can't help but hear about them sucking from almost everyone I know. Did they tank the season intentionally or were they just bad? My friends are split on this point and its hard to tell who actually knows what they are talking about.
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Apr 17, 2014 21:56
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If all the playoff series in a round ended in 4 or 5 games, would the next round get scheduled earlier or would there be several days without hockey? I know this is unlikely in round 1, but if the conference finals are both sweeps, is there like a week without hockey or is the final brought forward?
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Apr 17, 2014 22:53
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It's brought forward, unless there is a really serious scheduling problem.
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Apr 17, 2014 23:01
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ll4m4z posted:So what the hell happened to the Sabres this year? Living in upstate NY, I can't help but hear about them sucking from almost everyone I know. Did they tank the season intentionally or were they just bad? My friends are split on this point and its hard to tell who actually knows what they are talking about. After the free agents signed with Terry Pegula's cash infusion before the 11-12 season either not really helping the team or being catastrophic failures (  Ville Leino), the Sabres decided to blow it up in the middle of last season when they traded Pominville to the Wild and also sold a couple less significant players for picks (Leopold, Regehr). They went into this year with the expectation of tanking, something that was reinforced by selling Tomas Vanek a month into the season. Of course, while tanking, I don't know that they were expected to be this bad. But they and Calgary were considered mortal locks for 29th and 30th. e: You should also expect them to tank next year, too. Not only will it be difficult for them to raise themselves to a 2015 playoff team from this year's depths, but the draft is expected to be bonkers with generational prospect Connor McDavid, followed by "elite, 1-1 in any other year" guys like Jack Eichel, Oliver Kylington, and Noah Hanifin. As a Sabres fan, expect to hear those names a lot next year. Hand Knit fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 23:30
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Hand Knit posted:
So you're telling me that I shouldn't expect the Sabres to make me happy again when the Bills suck terribly next year? Buffalo is truly sports hell.
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Apr 17, 2014 23:49
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ll4m4z posted:So you're telling me that I shouldn't expect the Sabres to make me happy again when the Bills suck terribly next year? Buffalo is truly sports hell. The sabres this year were one of the worst teams of all time. If it wasn't for their goalie Ryan Miller (who was traded and immediately given a starting position in one of the top teams in the league), they would have undoubtably been the worst. It's gonna be a while before they build up enough to be passable. THEN AGAIN: Everyone in the world was expecting colorado to be a dumpster fire this year, and they are now one of the favorites for the cup. So you never know. Especially if they get Connor McDavid. Wait and see.
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Apr 18, 2014 03:29
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I'm so glad this thread is here, 'cause I need some help. My wife's gotten into hockey in a serious way over the last year. She's been following Philadelphia and Dallas. If I'm already telling her that even Crosby can't save the Pens now, what's my best option for teasing the poo poo out of her?
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Apr 18, 2014 04:41
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grassy gnoll posted:I'm so glad this thread is here, 'cause I need some help. My wife's gotten into hockey in a serious way over the last year. She's been following Philadelphia and Dallas. "Fleury" is now a noun that describes anything that allows other things to go past, through or around it. Especially in springtime.
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Apr 18, 2014 04:46
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Why are you teasing her about the Pens if she's into the Flyers and Stars? That said, if you want to tease her about the pens just have her watch some games, pens are basically teasing themselves at this point.
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Apr 18, 2014 04:57
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Yeah, well, I never said I was the one watching the games.  Thanks guys. If I don't report back it's because she broke my fingers.
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Apr 18, 2014 10:55
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HOW COULD YOU posted:The sabres this year were one of the worst teams of all time. If it wasn't for their goalie Ryan Miller (who was traded and immediately given a starting position in one of the top teams in the league), they would have undoubtably been the worst. It's gonna be a while before they build up enough to be passable. Colorado is a complete flash in the pan in my opinion. Fourth-worst possession team in the league propped up by unsustainably good shooting and goaltending. Often, an entire season isn't enough of a sample for teams to perform as expected by their possession numbers. Once Colorado runs into Chicago or St. Louis next round, they're probably screwed. Both those teams are significantly better than Colorado, possession-wise.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:04
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I don't know who's considering Colorado for the cup, because they're silly.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:06
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Connor McDavid might make the Sabres more interesting to watch but it will take a lot of time and help for him to make them good
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Apr 18, 2014 16:26
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Lawnie posted:Colorado is a complete flash in the pan in my opinion. Fourth-worst possession team in the league propped up by unsustainably good shooting and goaltending. Often, an entire season isn't enough of a sample for teams to perform as expected by their possession numbers. Once Colorado runs into Chicago or St. Louis next round, they're probably screwed. Both those teams are significantly better than Colorado, possession-wise. Austrian mook posted:I don't know who's considering Colorado for the cup, because they're silly. I'm just saying that people have been saying they'd crash and burn any week now for like 3 months, yet they continued to win. They had a strong regular season finish, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had a good playoff run. I feel like a leafs fancy stat denier, but they haven't collapsed yet. We'll see. Regardless of your complaining about my views, this is really not relevant to the point I made in my post. I was saying that almost everything about the avalanche told us in the pre-season that they'd be awful, and they pulled off a very entertaining season. So keep some hope, sabres fans! Hockey is a crazy game
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Apr 18, 2014 16:45
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Watching Stasny should bring great joy to all living humans.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:50
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HOW COULD YOU posted:I'm just saying that people have been saying they'd crash and burn any week now for like 3 months, yet they continued to win. They had a strong regular season finish, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had a good playoff run. I feel like a leafs fancy stat denier, but they haven't collapsed yet. We'll see. That's not how regression works, though. They're not any more likely to regress to their "true" ability in one game than any other or, in other words, just because it's gone on for three months doesn't mean that they're either "due" to crash or are actually good. However, at some point, they're going to come back to earth and go back to getting their teeth kicked in. You mentioned the leafs; it's not unheard of for a team to be outrageously lucky over the course of a season. The leafs were hilariously awful this year, though, even though they largely returned the same roster. That's not to say it's ridiculous to think Colorado could win the Cup, because many short series allow for lots of variance from the mean. It's extremely unlikely they win it, but not impossible by any means. To me, it would be foolish to predict anything but Chicago, St. Louis, LA, or San Jose to come out of the west. All have had very good possession numbers and pass the eye test, too. I'll still favor the Blackhawks over all of them, reason being that they start more shifts in the offensive zone than any other team in the league. When you hear announcer's say "tilting the ice," you can actually check that now against statistics and see how true it really is!
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Apr 18, 2014 17:26
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HOW COULD YOU posted:I'm just saying that people have been saying they'd crash and burn any week now for like 3 months, yet they continued to win. They had a strong regular season finish, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had a good playoff run. I feel like a leafs fancy stat denier, but they haven't collapsed yet. We'll see. In the case of the goaltending specifically, most of the fancystats people hailing the inevitable doomy collapse and "correction" (not on SAS per se) are the ones who are in Damien Cox land. Development does happen, Varlamov's always had a very high talent ceiling, the situation he found himself in is pretty much perfect. The other fancystats indication that the Avs are a lot worse than their record are team metrics and use a larger sample size, but a .927 is actually within the realm of possibility to be either legit on it's own, or a real substantial improvement combined with some luck. One season is far too small a sample size to say either way, anyone making conclusive predictions about Varlamov right now is overstating their case, and anyone calling others dumb while not actually understanding that is, well, Mook.
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Apr 18, 2014 17:45
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Again, my post was about how its not impossible that the sabres could have an entertaining season, not an argument about the goodness of colorado. As a thread that's trying to get casual fans interested in hockey, this discussion is counterproductive, because it's quickly becoming inaccessible. We can keep talking about this in the n/v thread if you want, but we should probably leave it be for this thread.
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Apr 18, 2014 17:54
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Paramemetic posted:Why are you teasing her about the Pens if she's into the Flyers and Stars? By winning? dude doesn't even know if she loves the pens or flyers anyway.
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Apr 18, 2014 20:41
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Are the Flyers secretly trying to create an all ginger team? 
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Apr 18, 2014 20:54
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They only had the 1 originally. It's contagious.
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Apr 18, 2014 20:55
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Tell me about the entry draft. Do teams usually know what player they want beforehand, or do you take the highest ranked player regardless of what your team needs? How are foreign players scouted? What happens to players who aren't drafted? Why does it take so long for some drafted players to start playing with the teams?
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Apr 18, 2014 21:25
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Admiral Goodenough posted:Tell me about the entry draft. Do teams usually know what player they want beforehand, or do you take the highest ranked player regardless of what your team needs? How are foreign players scouted? What happens to players who aren't drafted? Why does it take so long for some drafted players to start playing with the teams? NHL GM's are still the dumbest of all sports so they often make an objectively incorrect pick. See: every first rounder by jay feaster during his tenure with the flames.
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Apr 18, 2014 21:28
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Admiral Goodenough posted:Tell me about the entry draft. Do teams usually know what player they want beforehand, or do you take the highest ranked player regardless of what your team needs? How are foreign players scouted? What happens to players who aren't drafted? Why does it take so long for some drafted players to start playing with the teams? Like most sports, by the time draft day rolls around each NHL team will have a big board with all prospects ranked. Usually they will take the highest ranked player on that board, although there is the rare case where a team will take their second choice higher if they think that their first choice is very likely to still be around the next time the team picks. The Toronto Maple Leafs did this in the 2011 entry draft when they traded up to take Tyler Biggs at 22 despite having him ranked behind Stuart Percy (whom they took at 25), because Detroit was going to take Biggs at 23. Drafting for need versus drafting the 'best player available' is not a question like it is in basketball or baseball due to the makeup of the team - since teams have four of each forward and six defencemen, any decent player will never be 'blocked'. Of course, within this, different teams will have a different idea of what constitutes the 'best player available,' and you'll find dumb insidious ideas here like "WE NEED SIZE." Any team not run by severe penny pinchers will have at least one European scout, and the best teams will have several: for Sweden, for Finland, for Russia, and for the rest of Europe. With the imposition of the salary cap, I think that European scouting should be one areas where the rich teams focus their spending - the Leafs basically print money so there's no reason why they can't have an extensive report on any semi-relevant overseas prospect. The NHL entry draft is different from NBA and MLB drafts in that drafted players do not have to stop playing for their teams. This means also that undrafted players can continue playing with whomever they were playing with. Players playing in the CHL (which allows players up to the age of 20 with a few exceptions) continue in the CHL, and players playing NCAA continue playing there. I don't know the exact rules, but every player below a certain age has to go through the entry draft before joining an NHL team, so you will very rarely see a late developing player selected in the entry draft (Nik Kulemin was about to turn 20 when the Leafs selected him in the 2nd round of the 2006 draft). There are generally three reasons why a player will take time to make the NHL. The first, most obvious reason is that they simply aren't developed enough yet. Very few players are good enough to make the NHL at age 18 - a handful do it every year and they're usually the ones taken at the top of the draft. There is also the (rarer) case where a player has the skill but isn't physically developed enough yet - the Panthers left 3rd overall pick Jonathan Huberdeau in junior for an extra year for this reason. The second reason is that a player may be good enough to play in the NHL, but the team thinks that their development is better suited by playing a larger role or more minutes with their junior/European team. The third reason is that players playing in Europe or Russia, especially for a top level team, are simply not interested in leaving where they are. To a 19-year-old with bad English, leaving Stockholm to ride a bus from Thunder Bay to the Soo just isn't an attractive idea.
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Apr 18, 2014 22:10
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That's awesome, thank you! So if a player is drafted by a team, does that means he can only join the league playing for that team? And for how long do they have the rights to his contract in that case?
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Apr 18, 2014 22:26
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Admiral Goodenough posted:That's awesome, thank you! Most of the time yes. Theoretically a team could sign a player who will go back to college, juniors, or the minor leagues and trade him before he ever suits up for them. A player's rights could also be traded, although this doesn't happen very often. Aside from a handful of players good enough to make the NHL right away, most are going to go back to college or juniors, then when they are old enough they will play for the minor league affiliate of the NHL club that drafted them to further develop. Their first NHL experience will then generally be as an injury call up or a while down the road when they are good enough to make the team out of training camp. Teams retain exclusive rights to a player for four (I believe) years, after that they become a free agent. One notable example of this is Blake Wheeler, now of the Winnipeg Jets. He was drafted by the Coyotes, but chose to play in the NCAA for three years, and never signed an entry level deal. As a result, he became a free agent and signed with the Boston Bruins. Jamwad Hilder fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 22:45
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The Euro leagues actually draft North American prospects that will never actually go there. They usually go later in the drafts, but they do include them. The NHL is taking that risk when they draft Europeans too, but it's rare they don't come over. They don't draft blind, they know who wants to play in the NHL or not. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Apr 18, 2014 |
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Apr 18, 2014 22:53
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