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Coolguye posted:However, this really doesn't matter because Egil sucks quite a bit and is completely obsoleted by a few characters you meet later in this chapter. As someone who has a deep and distinctive love for high armour (and Egil's special ability in particular, which can be monumentally useful), I will say that this is definitely a subjective view. With me, those other characters didn't obsolete, they complemented. Perhaps this has a lot to do with my early-ARM strategy, but Egil and at least one of those characters were always my go-to guys, along with Iver, for forming shieldwalls and keeping high-strength enemies busy. You can make drat sure I did everything in my power to keep him alive throughout the game after I understood his value as 'baitmaster'. Chewbot posted:Positioning is so important in combat. We keep saying it's like chess but nobody believes us Really? I was about to make that comparison myself in an earlier post, before I decided it was probably unnecessary.
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Apr 29, 2014 16:50
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Iver, Egil, and the Thrasher brothers work really awkwardly together because of Iver's size and the number of soldiers involved in it. Shield walls are freaking great in this game, but they rely on people being able to support eachother, which Iver makes awkward by being so huge and Egil also does a relatively bad job of in the early levels because his armor isn't substantially higher than anyone else's and his ability sucks. Bloody Flail gets utterly amazing in a line, so Thrashers rock the house still. I can see him getting used but it's so painful to get him to grow up I just don't see it happening for a lot of people.
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Apr 29, 2014 17:01
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Hey guys, let's stop talking about characters who haven't shown up yet!
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Apr 29, 2014 17:02
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I say go for the distraction, since you bought supplies already. No need to risk further losses so early.
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Apr 29, 2014 17:12
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I guess a distraction will save more of the civilians. e: Oh, right, also give Alette the important job of guarding the chief. Not keeping her away from trouble at all, no siree. Someone said that the game keeps changing POVs, do we return to previous POVs at some point? Do POVs converge? Zanzibar Ham fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 17:15
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Mehuyael posted:Someone said that the game keeps changing POVs, do we return to previous POVs at some point? Do POVs converge? Without saying too much in this regard, we haven't seen the last of the varl from the previous chapter.
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Apr 29, 2014 17:17
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Let's distract the oncoming hordes with our own bodies. And leave the girl with the chief.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:12
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I'm not entirely sure what the girl is supposed to do if we leave her behind. Is she supposed to hold off a bad guy attack all on her own if something goes wrong, or what?
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Apr 29, 2014 18:44
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Xander77 posted:I'm not entirely sure what the girl is supposed to do if we leave her behind. Is she supposed to hold off a bad guy attack all on her own if something goes wrong, or what? She's probably supposed to not die.
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Apr 29, 2014 18:52
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Actually, I'm thinking if we leave her behind she's hosed. For three big reasons: Metagamey, but someone already mentioned that the game has a habit of giving you the same choices with different results. We've had the option to leave Alette behind, and she would have been safe. I'm guessing this time if we leave her behind she'll die. Because the warehouse option is the dangerous option. We're hoping the non-fighters will be safe while the fighters head into the warehouse, I'd bet money the dredge will massacre our civilians while we take the supplies. We don't want to leave her with the civilians. And, honestly, the best possible place for her to be is with the active party. At least then we've got some control over the events that may or may not be dangerous. If we leave her with someone else, it's completely out of our hands. So I vote that we raid the warehouse, and take Alette with us.
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Apr 29, 2014 19:24
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Captain Bravo posted:And, honestly, the best possible place for her to be is with the active party. At least then we've got some control over the events that may or may not be dangerous. If we leave her with someone else, it's completely out of our hands.
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Apr 29, 2014 20:34
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ProfessorProf posted:Hey guys, let's stop talking about characters who haven't shown up yet! Much sorry, knew I was toying the line even if I was trying to not name names. Will only ever talk about present characters from here on. Coolguye posted:Iver, Egil, and the others work really awkwardly together because of Iver's size and the number of soldiers involved in it. Shield walls are freaking great in this game, but they rely on people being able to support eachother, which Iver makes awkward by being so huge and Egil also does a relatively bad job of in the early levels because his armor isn't substantially higher than anyone else's and his ability sucks. The size does make things awkward, but luckily Iver is tough enough that he doesn't really need to be a part of a shield wall. I consider it a happy bonus when I can successfully integrate him into one for most of the mission, but he's not always critical to one. In fact, with his bulk he can be used to hold up a front on his own. I invest in armor early and Egil's ability is the best thing ever if you want to coax certain enemies in a particular direction without losing armor or strength. So what if his armour isn't substantially higher? He has the ability to outright ignore a set amount of damage (from ANY attack that round!), irrespective of whether someone's strength beats his armor or not, making him one of the best outright blocks to heavy hitters (and their various hangers-on) you have early-game! He can even be used against enemy ranged, having them spend their precious supply of willpower pointlessly on his tough metal shield because he's the only thing I've placed within reach. Allowing them to scratch Egil for zilch to 2 strength is a worthwhile trade if it burns some of their stars and x more amount of damage they could've done to a less armoured character, especially if it enables me to move that other guy, untouched, up for a smackdown. That said, I focus on a defensive playstyle and may be making the choices that make Egil a useful character early on. I'd be interested, when more characters have been revealed, to hear more about how your playstyle works. Scribbleykins fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 21:12
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I don't know too much about this game (I've only played the MP version of this briefly) but wouldnt the large size work well with spreading shield wall around a bit more? Sorta like: [][] [--] [--] Which allows for a solid block of dudes with shield wall bonuses, ready to kick butts. You could even add a few more dudes to the other sides of him, as needed. The large size shouldn't really be a liability unless he has to maneuver through a group of people which is an issue for all of the big dudes anyway.
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Apr 29, 2014 21:19
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Tetrakarn posted:I don't know too much about this game (I've only played the MP version of this briefly) but wouldnt the large size work well with spreading shield wall around a bit more? Sorta like: Shield wall only confers bonuses to guys right next to you, so the varl at the bottom of that setup isn't getting any of them. And, well, turn order and positioning is important and help lessen the maneuvering issue. If you've got two Shield Wall dudes standing beside Iver, while you get the benefits of the wall twice over, you also have to move both those dudes in order to be able to take a move in that direction. This is one of the chief reasons why I prefer to not stagger my defense/offense guys like ProfessorProf does, so I can enable a more (intermittently) rapidly moving defense front (and besides, you really need all your guys in the fight, not standing at the back being an extra point of mobile armor; reserve that for instances when you're baiting the enemy rather than positioning for first blood). That said, giving Iver massive amounts of armour by stacking shieldwall can get pretty hilarious, especially if you've got an enemy heavy hitter who's been blocked in by his own mates and is forced to attack Iver only. "Oh, what's that, you don't think 17 armor is enough? Try 20 on for size!"
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Apr 29, 2014 21:47
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Yeah, to be explicit, the problem with Iver's size is maneuvering the shield wall, which is a really common need, especially when people start falling over. Presume X is an occupied square and - is an unoccupied one in the following ascii demonstrations, but in a human shield wall: [X][X][X][X] [-][-][-][-] [-][-][-][-] In this line, any of your soldiers can reposition and shift the line down without too much trouble. It's a 4 square thing typically. Now consider this line with a varl in it. [X][X][X][X] [-][X][X][-] [-][-][-][-] It's now impossible to move the line without expending Willpower, which is way better used for, you know, smashing someone's face. A human attempting to get around the varl has 8 spaces to move (4 Willpower presuming you even have that much Exertion), and the varl himself has 5 squares (1 Willpower) absolute minimum to move due to his greater size. Varl are often more trouble than they're worth when dealing with a mostly human force. Humans have a much easier time interfacing with a mostly varl force, though. Social commentary? You decide. 
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Apr 29, 2014 22:16
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As of the end of the voting period, there is a dead tie between Warehouse and Distraction. We are now entering sudden death: The next unique vote cast determines our course of action.
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Apr 30, 2014 13:44
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Distraction & Alette stays behind
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Apr 30, 2014 14:09
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This game seems to reward the thing that makes the most sense from rook's point of view, so distracting them while leaving our daughter behind seems logical.
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Apr 30, 2014 14:15
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Decision locked!
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Apr 30, 2014 14:18
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This looks like a pretty great game, shame I missed the vote deadline. Been starved of good tactical rpgs lately so I may just pick this up off steam and see if I can play along. The combination of armor being persistent damage reduction unless worn down and life being equal to damage output makes the battles seem to rely more about teamwork and strategy, and less about beefing up one or two characters, than many trpgs I've played. The idea that decking too many of the smaller enemies early on in a battle can get your butt killed my giving the larger ones more turns seems a little wonky but I can see advantages in a system that works this way rather than relying on your typical speed stat based turn order. I wonder how this game has passed under my radar for so long, the scenery is utterly beautiful from what I've seen so far and I'd imagine the choose your own adventure style dialogue options would give it a higher than average replay value.
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Apr 30, 2014 17:50
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I don't know how I missed this thread for so long. When Factions came out for free, I saw "free PVP SRPG" and was instantly hooked. The mechanics to the game are nothing short of wonderful, and I adore the system. I'm really quite surprised by how hard it is for people to catch on to the "don't kill kill enemies at 1 or 2 strength" strategy. I figured that out on my second or third fight, and every time my opponent would focus fire a character, I'd just say "Thanks for giving my good characters more turns." The only real problem I have with the PVP is kind of metagame-y. Due to the fact that there's zero hidden information and a lot of numbers, matches tend to move at a snail's pace due to players calculating every single possibility. It gets to be kind of a slog, and if you're as bad at math and juggling multiple numbers scenarios as I am, you tend to shoot yourself in the foot more often than not. As a result, I don't play the game too often, since it ends up being very mentally taxing. But more than anything else, that's just a testament to how complex and rich the combat system is. But I'm looking forward to reading all about the single player. I'm a little miffed that there's already character types that don't show up in the multiplayer, but the writing seems really good so far, and with dev input, this is going to be an awesome thread.
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May 1, 2014 17:05
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 The chieftain thinks for a long moment.  I didn't ask for advice just to ignore it. Promise you're not throwing away your lives on this. That wasn't part of my plan... Iver? Nope. Then I'm coming with you.That catches you by surprise. The chieftain rubs his chin, but doesn't argue. From the training she's given Alette, you've no doubt she can handle a bow. Fine. I'll get the townspeople ready. Make your move, Iver. We'll leave when you're clear. "Don't leave me alone," she says, tears in her eyes. It's difficult, but you drag yourself to the door of the great hall, resolute that you're making the best decision for her. You step into the town courtyard, where you can already see dredge in every direction. Iver starts banging his shield and swearing at them. "We kill a few," he shouts, "And the rest will follow!" You steel yourself for a tough fight.  Tryggvi is still injured from the last fight, so I'm putting him late in the turn order, but still next to Iver in the rotation - we saw how well that worked last time.   Unlike previous battles, we have two separate areas we can deploy in. Four enemies, five of us, so they'll have a turn advantage.  I'll go with this formation, just to try something out. Egil as a lure, everyone else together.  By a lucky break, the first enemy acting is within range of Iver, and has another enemy behind it. This means I can use Battering ram to damage its Armor while pushing it out of counterattack range.  Egil, meanwhile, will use Stonewall to try and draw out the Grunts and waste their turns.  So far, so good!  Rook gets to knocking down the Armor on the closer of the two Scourges - fortunately, much less thick than the Stoneguard from the previous fight. The universal dredge passive, Splinter comes into play here, too - If you do 3 or more Armor damage with one hit to a dredge, then any other dredge adjacent to them take a point of Armor damage. So, 4 to the one in front, 1 to the one in back.  Oddlief, like most archers, has kinda low stats, but remains immensely useful. She shares her passive with Alette.  Her active ability, Rain of Arrows, marks an unoccupied tile, then strikes the first enemy to walk through it before her next turn for Strength damage. That Scourge is acting next, and the only tactically sound decision he can make is to approach Iver, so let's lay a trap.  The damage isn't much, but here's the thing - the target's turn is cancelled. So far, our team still hasn't taken a single point of damage.  Tryggvi appears to be down 2 Strength from his injury. He'll play it safe for now, advancing on the southern front while remaining one tile too far for the Grunt to reach.  There goes my perfect no-damage record! However, because it's Iver, the Scourge loses a point of Armor in retaliation.  Now that the enemy's armor is getting low, I can start dishing out the real damage.  Miraculously, the turn disadvantage actually worked to my advantage here! Stonewall lasts until Egil's next turn, meaning that he successfully deflects two hits from the same Grunt with a single activation of it.  In fact, this is working out so well that I'm gonna go ahead and keep doing it! The second Grunt doesn't take the bait, though, instead heading into attack distance of the rest of the party.  This Scourge is up next, so my first instinct is to dish out some Strength damage... but it has 14 Strength, and can only reach Iver, who has 14 Armor, so it isn't any sort of threat right now. Instead, I do another Armor attack, and in defiance of all logic, the Scourge falls back on its turn instead of pressing the assault, hiding behind its companion. Sometimes the AI just does weird things.  Furthermore, because this Scourge took Armor damage from Splinter, Puncture activates, letting Oddleif do impressive damage despite her low Strength. The frontmost Scourge is a non-threat at this point.  Instead of trying to press the advantage, though, it goes to use Tremble. I have until Rook's next turn to kill it, or it will summon another Grunt. I think I'll leave it alone for now.  Tryggvi goes to say hi to the second front! I would have used Impale, but this is the only tile from which the far Grunt can't reach him, and Impale can't be used from 2 tiles away. The far Grunt moves around Egil, but doesn't bother trying to attack him. I think Stonewall Time is about over.  Now both of the Scourges are cripplingly weak, making the Grunts the only actual threat here.  I really have to be careful with Tryggvi on this map, though. He's already down to 6 Strength.  One more hit like that would take it down. One high-Strength enemy left!  And now BOTH of them are using Tremble. This has the potential to get ugly. Currently, there are 3 weak enemies and 1 strong enemy, meaning that 25% of enemy turns are legitimately dangerous. If I kill the Trembling Scourge, then there will be 2 weak enemies and 1 strong enemy, for 33% dangerous enemy turns. If I let it summon a Grunt, then it'll be 3-2, so 40% dangerous enemy turns. On the other hand... new Grunts come in on the edges of the battlefield, so there's good odds it'd take a turn or two to reach us. Also, if I kill the Scourge, then the enemy turns will accelerate enough to guarantee Tryggvi gets hit again.  Against my better judgment, I'll let it finish the Tremble. Unfortunately, some kind of weird UI glitch hit here, and Rook didn't do anything. Don't know what that was about.  So here's the new guy. It'll take it at least one turn to reach us, so that works for me. As a bonus, it's at the top of the initiative, so that delays all the other enemies immediately.  This is why I wanted Oddlief to get her turn in before that Grunt - this way, she can protect Tryggvi with Rain of Arrows.  Not able to safely move off of this tile, Tryg reduces the Grunt in front of him to uselessness.  As planned, Rain of Arrows stops the Grunt in its tracks, keeping Tryg from taking any more damage.  I'm risking one, but two new Grunts is a bit much, thank you.   Man, they really like ganging up on people like that. Tryg's in trouble again. Missed a screenshot here, but Rook falls away from the southern Grunt, so that the only hero it can reach is Iver. It doesn't fall for the bait, instead heading around to follow the archers.  Oddlief is running out of enemies whose movements can be easily predicted here, so it's down to plain ol' attacks. I think we're about ready to start dishing out kills.  A note on how Deflecting interacts with Willpower: Using will on an attack doesn't increase your effective Strength, it increases your final damage. So if I have critically low Strength and attack someone with enough Armor to make it a 90% deflect chance, pumping 2 will into the attack won't reduce the deflect chance, it'll just make that last 10% case do 3 damage.  In another baffling move by the AI, the Grunt following Tryggvi doesn't do anything. Is this because I'm not on Hard, or is it just kind of quirky?  I've gotten into a good enough spot that I can kill most of these guys in one good attack, so let's do that.  This guy is still a threat, but I'm gonna ignore that fact for now!  2 left. This could be a bit scary if the other one goes after Tryg...  Nope! Victory is about to be ours.  With the enemy turn advantage crushed, all that remains is mopping up.   Zero casualties. Promotion for Iver.  An hour later, Oddleif is the first to spot them. "There!" she points to the road. As you rejoin them, you can tell there was trouble, some people wounded. Alette rushes to you, throwing her arms around your waist. You smile and hug her tightly. "Dad... please don't do that again," she says. "Brave girl, this one," adds one of the women from Skogr. "Chieftain would've died without her." She points to the back of the caravan. You find Oddleif beside her husband, who is laid out in a cart. "Old fool," she says. "Got himself a prize for trying to fight back." She shows you his deep gut wound. "But he's alive. Nothing for it but to get to Frostvellr." You continue on in silence, Alette's hand in your own. +30 Renown  Well done, voters! This is arguably the best possible outcome for the evacuation of Skogr. Not only did the Chieftain survive due to Alette's protection, but we got the maximum Renown reward for the event. Unfortunately, we weren't able to seize the warehouse, so supplies are limited. Our caravan of 315 refugees takes to the road to Frostvellr, and it's time for a more tactical decision: How hard should we push them? Our options shall be: Relaxed Pace: Stop and rest whenever morale drops below Normal. Steady Pace: Stop and rest whenever moral drops below Weak. Forced March: Never stop unless absolutely necessary. Lower morale means that all our heroes will have to fight with reduced Willpower. It shouldn't be more than a few days to Frostvellr, but there's no guarantee that reaching the city will be the end of our problems. What do you say, thread? Voting will close in 24 hours. Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 17:17 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 1, 2014 23:19
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Steady Pace Moving too slowly is asking for trouble, but by the same token it would be unwise to run our men ragged. Take the middle path. Also, for those that have tried Hard and Very Hard, how different are those modes from Normal?
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May 1, 2014 23:23
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Oddleif is the best, both narratively and mechanically. Also, to answer your question, that's just the AI being weird. It does some inexplicable things on Hard, too. TravelLog posted:Also, for those that have tried Hard and Very Hard, how different are those modes from Normal?
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May 2, 2014 00:52
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Son of a... my dependence on Alette means I never got to see the chieftain survive before. I did suspect it was possible, I just hadn't figured out which route to take to make it work. Oddleif, as has been mentioned, is certifiably awesome. When I realized her special ability stopped an enemy in his tracks she never again left my regular party roster. With her on the scene we've now got most of the crew in play that I use for my favorite strategy with this caravan: high-strength/armor break archers behind high-armor meatshields. This is a fairly powerful combo, and it gives you a fair bit of control over the battlefield, as the enemy keeps having to come to you and maneuver around (or punch through) your shieldwall (and Oddleif's rain of arrows) to even get at the (still highly mobile) archer heroes dishing out so much of the hurt.
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May 2, 2014 01:13
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Holy... I did not realize Oddleif can do that.
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May 2, 2014 01:28
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Steady Pace, since it seems to me to be the least worst of all the options.
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May 2, 2014 02:01
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Steady sounds good. Oddleif is pretty cool in terms of ability, personality, and design. That arrow trap is a hell of a thing. 
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May 2, 2014 02:37
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How far away is Frostvellr? If its only a few days, then relax. But if it's longer, and we could end up running short on supplies, then keep a steady pace.
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May 2, 2014 02:41
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ViggyNash posted:How far away is Frostvellr? If its only a few days, then relax. But if it's longer, and we could end up running short on supplies, then keep a steady pace. Supplies are ALWAYS going to be a problem for Rook. The other party is a royal tax collecting delegation with more varl in one place than you see anywhere outside of their homelands. Rook's party is a pack of ragged refugees whose only goal is to not be butchered wholesale.
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May 2, 2014 03:32
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Stop talking about the flow of future events in ways that will influence people's decisioooonnnnsssssss e: vvvvv ehhhh fine Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 04:42 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 03:47
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ProfessorProf posted:Stop talking about the flow of future events in ways that will influence people's decisioooonnnnsssssss As someone who hasn't played the game, it doesn't seems spoilery to point out the differences between a veteran military unit and a bunch of villagers who just had to abandon their winter stores. Let's take a steady pace.
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May 2, 2014 04:02
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Let's move fast, the more distance we put between ourselves and those Dredge the better of we'll be. Given that there's almost certainly danger in front too the last thing we want is the first group of Dredge biting at our heels.
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May 2, 2014 06:37
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Egil's ability isn't bad like some people are saying, it's super awesome because it turns him into supertank. You can shove him towards three weak enemies and Stonewall, and he'll tie them up while you deal with other threats. Since we're going with audience voting, though, he's probably going to end up dead before the end of the game. The number of ways he can die is just silly. Chewbot mentioned you're given clues as to the way to make him survive the first battle he has (besides just sending him away), but the issue is that while Rook is referred to once as a huntsman and good with a bow, his unique skill is melee range. It's not immediately obvious to go for the bow in the CYOA decision. By the end of the game I was using Rook as a melee-man myself - I didn't see him as an archer with a backup axe, but as Eirik but with more damage and a backup bow - and since you play around with Eirik before you get Rook, it feels like a natural way to think. Most of the CYOA questions aren't actually too bad, besides the big one with huge effects in the game, but I can understand why that's there. There's one other character that I feel you can lose in too silly a way, but in that case you're given plenty of warning that the choice that makes you lose them is a bad idea..
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May 2, 2014 08:10
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Let's march in a Steady Pace.
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May 2, 2014 08:24
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The Lone Badger posted:Let's move fast, the more distance we put between ourselves and those Dredge the better of we'll be. Given that there's almost certainly danger in front too the last thing we want is the first group of Dredge biting at our heels. We're going to be chased for a long time. Rushing now means exhausted later. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Steady Pace.
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May 2, 2014 08:38
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Trivia: names ending with -leif are exclusively masculine, at least in the real world. A female character could be called Oddlaug, Oddbjórg or Oddfrid.
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May 2, 2014 10:03
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Kopijeger posted:Trivia: names ending with -leif are exclusively masculine, at least in the real world. A female character could be called Oddlaug, Oddbjórg or Oddfrid. It's terrible that I look at those three names and only see Oddjob. But nice piece of Scandanavian name trivia.
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May 2, 2014 10:24
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Forced March to try and seem cool and edgy without really risking anything since there's no way this option will win.
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May 2, 2014 14:10
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:40 |
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Kopijeger posted:Trivia: names ending with -leif are exclusively masculine, at least in the real world. A female character could be called Oddlaug, Oddbjórg or Oddfrid. wiegieman posted:As someone who hasn't played the game, it doesn't seems spoilery to point out the differences between a veteran military unit and a bunch of villagers who just had to abandon their winter stores. bewilderment posted:Egil's ability isn't bad like some people are saying, it's super awesome because it turns him into supertank. You can shove him towards three weak enemies and Stonewall, and he'll tie them up while you deal with other threats. Stone Wall really shines when you have Egil stuck in among a bunch of big guys like the Scourge we saw earlier, and your positioning is such that most of them can only attack Egil. Then they will stop attempting to maneuver through the pile-up to attack Egil. But this is very, VERY situational and nowhere near as useful as, say, Impale.
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May 2, 2014 14:56
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