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Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

I'd fuck on the first date but truckers usually just want their salads tossed

Also



This thread is for everybody to ask goon cops questions about the police and the law. This is a place for serious discussions, if you're looking for general chat and banter please see our monthly lounge thread.

Please don't come here with your ranting anti-authoritarian rhetoric. We don't mind a respectful back and forth discussion about important issues. However, please note that our professions are based around making reasoned decisions brought about by hours upon hours of investigation and the gathering of evidence. This is probably why we won't jump in and condemn an officer's actions based solely on a 30 second piece of footage uploaded by somebody on YouTube who most likely has an axe to grind against police.

This means any FTP or ACAB type posts are at your own peril.

FAQs

Q - Should I take Criminal Justice or Police Science?
A - No. Take something that will broaden your skill set, such as finance or IT. The knowledge you'll receive can help in investigations whereas CJ or PS will only teach you how to do basic investigations. Which is what you're taught to do when you start anyway.

Q - gently caress the Police
A - Buy us dinner first.

Officers (Please let me know if I get this wrong
Whip Slagcheek - USA
Citycop - USA
DrakeriderCa - Canada
beanieson - USA
JayKay - USA
Branis - USA
Cmdr. Shepard - USA
SrgMagnum - USA (Retired)
Grem - USA
Tentacle Party - Australia
chartley - Scotland
Bernard McFacknutah - England
Hezzy - England

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antiga
Jan 16, 2013


I'll start. What's the protocol for highways where absolutely no one drives the speed limit? The Merritt parkway in CT/NY has a 50-55 limit and an average speed of probably 70-75 (I-90 in MA is another example). There is no shoulder but there are a few places that the highway patrol will set up a speed trap. Do the unlucky few walk away with $500 tickets? Do you only pull over the most egregious speeders?

proof of concept
Mar 6, 2005

Screw BU. Harvard too.

This is something I've wondered about and would like some working officers' perspectives on: what is your opinion on professional courtesy amongst officers? How common is it in your department? Have you ever extended it to another officer or family member of an officer, and if so what's a typical situation in which you would? Have you or any of your family members ever benefitted from it (that you're aware of)? Lastly, whether or not it goes on where you work do you feel the practice is generally beneficial to society and ought to be tolerated or do you feel it is generally detrimental and ought to be curtailed, and why do you feel this way?

Branis
Apr 14, 2006

they all wear pants that are too tight and they all secretly wanna bang wearing their campaign hats. use this to your advantage

I'm of the opinion that professional courtesy is a two way street. I don't really expect a coworker to write me a speeding ticket, but on the other side, I don't think a cop should behave in a way that puts a coworker in a position to have to write them a ticket or arrest them. This attitude is prevalent in my department, i'm sure that if I got caught driving drunk by a coworker I would probably be taking a trip to jail and rightfully so.

SrgMagnum
Nov 12, 2007
Got old money, could buy a dinosaur

antiga posted:

I'll start. What's the protocol for highways where absolutely no one drives the speed limit? The Merritt parkway in CT/NY has a 50-55 limit and an average speed of probably 70-75 (I-90 in MA is another example). There is no shoulder but there are a few places that the highway patrol will set up a speed trap. Do the unlucky few walk away with $500 tickets? Do you only pull over the most egregious speeders?

I was a sheriff's deputy so didn't work the highways much but I'll take a stab at this and if I'm wrong I'll trust the road boys to set me straight.

My opinion is that speed limits on highways are a baseline for most people. Your best bet is not to go more than ten over the limit but the safest traffic wise is to keep up with the flow of traffic around you.

proof of concept posted:

This is something I've wondered about and would like some working officers' perspectives on: what is your opinion on professional courtesy amongst officers? How common is it in your department? Have you ever extended it to another officer or family member of an officer, and if so what's a typical situation in which you would? Have you or any of your family members ever benefitted from it (that you're aware of)? Lastly, whether or not it goes on where you work do you feel the practice is generally beneficial to society and ought to be tolerated or do you feel it is generally detrimental and ought to be curtailed, and why do you feel this way?

Professional curtesy is a hot button issue for so many people because they think it's some super secret get out of jail free card. It's far from it and totally up to the individuals involved and their attitudes.

My policy: As long as the violation is minor and NOT a safety issue and the driver is respectful I will bend over backwards to help a cop, firefighter, or hospital nurse/doctor out of a minor ticket. Once you cross the line into being dangerous (high rate of speed, DUI, etc) you're fair game. Though that was pretty much my policy for all tickets. I didn't personally have much interest in writing traffic stuff so I avoided it except as a tool to conduct the rest of my investigations.

Every job has little perks or benefits that simply come with the gig. This is ours. My opinion is that it's a part of an older era and is slowly dying out due to the negative attention brought by the public. In decades past a cop could get away with drat near anything (traffic stuff) just by flashing a badge. Now we actually are held to the higher standard everyone yells about to the point that anything we do on or off duty is scrutinized by admin, the public, and all of the various "watchdog groups."

Professional courtesy is a tradition within law enforcement and in my personal opinion not something which should upset anybody except those that think every little part of life should be fair for everybody all the time. Which any reasonable adult knows is just not the way the world works. That's coming from a guy who is retired and carries nothing to ever ID me as a cop so my days of courtesy due to a badge are over.

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion on it? I haven't really had a reasonable discussion about it with anybody in years so I appreciate the chance to do it here. Great questions so far.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die

Two questions:

1. How effective do you believe a Stop & Frisk type program would be in your community? Would you prefer it to regular policing?

2. Would you say most of your department's officers feel they are more like members of the military or more like regular civilians?

N. Senada
May 17, 2011



How many people have you killed while being a cop?

E. Changed the question to be more specific. If you have killed people outside of the line of duty, feel free to share those too.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

I'd fuck on the first date but truckers usually just want their salads tossed

Also



Asking someone how many people they killed is like asking a woman how many abortions she's had. I'm not going to probate you for that, but it isn't a question pursuant to discussion.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



I hurt someone's feelings once.

*not a cop*

edit for a question: What's the coolest thing you've seen as a cop? Something that a normal citizen wouldn't get to see.

N. Senada
May 17, 2011



Is that because Abortion is Murder?

E. WHAT I MEAN is whether you're saying you shouldn't talk about it because it's like a medical operation? or because it's like taking a life?

Tarkus
Aug 27, 2000

Finally...

I have some things to ask, first though I'd like to say my experience with cops have been mostly positive but after seeing so much press about police overstepping their bounds, I have to ask.

Has the decreased trust in the police affected how people treat the police and your ability to effectively do your job?
Has an increased proliferation of guns in the states made things more stressful?
Does the War on Drugs predicate an increased use of force?

I'm really curious since I'm a Canadian and we don't see the same style of almost paramilitary police forces that often. If I went by the news it'd seem that every minor infraction there is met with a taser or bullets but I know that's not true.

Also, how do you think that the relationship between the public and the police service could be repaired to a reasonable extent?

Thanks in advance to whoever answers

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010



Speaking of the War on Drugs, does the Canadian police force participate in that as much as the US and Mexico seem to?

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


N. Senada posted:

Is that because Abortion is Murder?

E. WHAT I MEAN is whether you're saying you shouldn't talk about it because it's like a medical operation? or because it's like taking a life?

Because it's really rude and personal. Neither getting an abortion nor shooting someone is something anyone is ever proud of. Like, this isn't complicated.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

I'd fuck on the first date but truckers usually just want their salads tossed

Also



N. Senada posted:

Is that because Abortion is Murder?

E. WHAT I MEAN is whether you're saying you shouldn't talk about it because it's like a medical operation? or because it's like taking a life?

I meant it's an extremely personal and sensitive question and not only is it rude but isn't likely to prompt good discussion.


Mortabis posted:

Because it's really rude and personal. Neither getting an abortion nor shooting someone is something anyone is ever proud of. Like, this isn't complicated.

Exactly.

Tarkus
Aug 27, 2000

Finally...

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

Speaking of the War on Drugs, does the Canadian police force participate in that as much as the US and Mexico seem to?

I can only speak as a Canadian who has read up on the subject a bit. My impression of the subject is that we monitor the borders as carefully as we can and tend to focus on larger grow operations. In BC it's quite common for there to be reasonably large fields of marijuana and people will rent or buy houses to perform hydroponics operations. Those are usually scoped out fairly easily with infrared cameras on helicopters.

As for the military style tactics of the DEA where they have a carte blanche, no it isn't as prevalent. I suspect it's just not as profitable as taking down known large scale people. plus, we don't have the same large scale meth problems that seem to be prevalent in much of small town US though it is increasing.

That said, we tend to illegalize everything that the US does because we do what we're told but we're not as severe about it. A big factor may be that we don't have private prisons yet to lobby for such strict and severe law enforcement.

USMC503
Jan 15, 2012

For satisfactory performance while under the effects of hostile enemy alcohol.

Mortabis posted:

Because it's really rude and personal. Neither getting an abortion nor shooting someone is something anyone is ever proud of. Like, this isn't complicated.

But ACAB and gently caress the police etc. So gently caress them if they don't like it mannnn.

Question: is it more satisfying when some moron who "knows his/her rights" gives you an excuse to arrest them or pepper spraying/tasing someone who is being a blatant douche (e.g. violent, going to get arrested anyway but resisting, etc)?

NIGGER DEATH TURBO
Jul 4, 2013


anybody got any sovereign citizen stories?

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010



friend of the family DEATH TURBO posted:

anybody got any sovereign citizen stories?

I love watching those guys get the beatdown. Nothing stupider than a person who thinks he's above the law (and isn't a politician )

Smiling Jack
Dec 2, 2001

you asked for it


Mortabis posted:

Because it's really rude and personal. Neither getting an abortion nor shooting someone is something anyone is ever proud of. Like, this isn't complicated.

Look I know you supported the Republican government shutdown but that doesn't mean you actually killed anyone directly.

N. Senada
May 17, 2011



Mortabis posted:

Because it's really rude and personal. Neither getting an abortion nor shooting someone is something anyone is ever proud of. Like, this isn't complicated.

Some people disagree with you about that.

Jennifer Baumgardner posted:

Today, women and men who share their abortion experiences do so in a different environment. Abortion is legal, so it doesn’t have the same historic impact that Sherri Finkbine’s or the Redstockings’ speak-outs had. Yet after several decades of speak-outs and attempts to come out about abortion, the stigma remains, proving that the high emotions around this issue aren’t neutralized so easily. Despite this difficulty, a profound purpose remains in speaking out. When each of us does so, abortion history transforms into a beautiful and rich collective memoir.

http://www.babble.com/pregnancy/i-had-an-abortion/

Do you not think a similar campaign would be helpful for people who kill people?

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

I'd fuck on the first date but truckers usually just want their salads tossed

Also



Drop the subject. We're not talking about police killing someone in the line of duty or out just as I wouldn't expect anyone else to discuss the matter. If someone wants to talk about it, that's they're prerogative.

NIGGER DEATH TURBO
Jul 4, 2013


N. Senada posted:

Some people disagree with you about that.


Do you not think a similar campaign would be helpful for people who kill people?

go around asking random women if they've had an abortion

Anatharon
Aug 6, 2010



This is a general question but I'm particularly interested in DrakeriderCa's opinion as he is Canadian.

Do you think there is such a thing as a 'bad department'?

N. Senada posted:

Some people disagree with you about that.


Do you not think a similar campaign would be helpful for people who kill people?

Man I'm not exactly pro police because the cops where I live are horrible for many reasons but you really need to settle down.

USMC503
Jan 15, 2012

For satisfactory performance while under the effects of hostile enemy alcohol.

Mr. Nice! posted:

Drop the subject. We're not talking about police killing someone in the line of duty or out just as I wouldn't expect anyone else to discuss the matter. If someone wants to talk about it, that's they're prerogative.

You're being way too lenient imo. Use your non lethal takedown measure and taze him already

Branis
Apr 14, 2006

they all wear pants that are too tight and they all secretly wanna bang wearing their campaign hats. use this to your advantage

There definitely are bad departments and bad cultures in departments. I do believe it is possible to change the culture of a department and turn it around into something more positive. One thing that always annoys me is the blanketing of all police being the same. We have 50 individual states and probably thousands of individual law enforcement agencies. I don't identify with and am not responsible for the actions of cops on the east or west coasts. I never bashed an occupy protestor in oakland or hosed a dude with a plunger in new york. And I think the citizenry of my county are generally happy with the service we provide and the way we do it.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



USMC503 posted:

You're being way too lenient imo. Use your non lethal takedown measure and taze him already
All he is doing is posting dumb poo poo and going back to GBS like he laid down some major copper ownage. I say ban him from GBS for a week.

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010



Branis posted:

There definitely are bad departments and bad cultures in departments. I do believe it is possible to change the culture of a department and turn it around into something more positive. One thing that always annoys me is the blanketing of all police being the same. We have 50 individual states and probably thousands of individual law enforcement agencies. I don't identify with and am not responsible for the actions of cops on the east or west coasts. I never bashed an occupy protestor in oakland or hosed a dude with a plunger in new york. And I think the citizenry of my county are generally happy with the service we provide and the way we do it.

It's like how all Americans are slumped together even though I'm like 100% sure that a New Yorker is nothing like Californian or a country bumpkin but foreigners love to think all Americans have New York accents and love baseball and poo poo.

That's just what happens when people marginalize.

USMC503
Jan 15, 2012

For satisfactory performance while under the effects of hostile enemy alcohol.

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

It's like how all Americans are slumped together even though I'm like 100% sure that a New Yorker is nothing like Californian or a country bumpkin but foreigners love to think all Americans have New York accents and love baseball and poo poo.

That's just what happens when people marginalize.

And have the politics of the South.

suboptimal
Oct 27, 2008

Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM


So are these threads basically acting as sting operations for the ACAB crowd? I've noticed that the Leper's Colony is full of new probations and bans from the last thread. Could these posters claim entrapment in an appeal to Lowtax?

Serious question: do you remember the first arrest you made? What was it for, and how did it make you feel? As you make arrests, what's the ratio of "I'm glad this scumbag is off the streets and in the system" to "that was kind of bullshit, but I'm constrained by the laws I'm sworn to enforce?" I assume that this ratio would be different among the detective(s?)/more specialized police to the officers who primarily work patrol.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

I'd fuck on the first date but truckers usually just want their salads tossed

Also



That's not exactly how entrapment works. Someone who already has the predisposition to commit the crime can't be entrapped. It's why prostitution sting operations from both sides are completely legal.

USMC503
Jan 15, 2012

For satisfactory performance while under the effects of hostile enemy alcohol.

Also it's kind of like going into a police station and shouting, "gently caress you pigs!" Then taking a poo poo on someone's desk. It's really not a good idea.

Hitlers Gay Secret
Mar 7, 2010



USMC503 posted:

Also it's kind of like going into a police station and shouting, "gently caress you pigs!" Then taking a poo poo on someone's desk. It's really not a good idea.

Now now, it's not illegal to say "gently caress the Police!", but it is illegal to publicly defecate.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die

So, ever tase anyone?

suboptimal
Oct 27, 2008

Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM


Mr. Nice! posted:

That's not exactly how entrapment works. Someone who already has the predisposition to commit the crime can't be entrapped. It's why prostitution sting operations from both sides are completely legal.

USMC503 posted:

Also it's kind of like going into a police station and shouting, "gently caress you pigs!" Then taking a poo poo on someone's desk. It's really not a good idea.

I know how entrapment works, it was just kind of a joke that fell flat

-Troika-
May 2, 2009

I started caring deeply
about guns since I saw
an anime where wizards
have sex with King Arthur.


What's the funniest thing any of you have ever seen while on duty?

SrgMagnum
Nov 12, 2007
Got old money, could buy a dinosaur

Tarkus posted:

Has the decreased trust in the police affected how people treat the police and your ability to effectively do your job?
Has an increased proliferation of guns in the states made things more stressful?
Does the War on Drugs predicate an increased use of force?

Also, how do you think that the relationship between the public and the police service could be repaired to a reasonable extent?

Thanks in advance to whoever answers

I appreciate your questions my friendly CanuckGoon.

First point I want to make, just so that it's said: Nothing you read or see in the press should be taken as truth. It's well known that media amplifies certain things which they know will sell more papers. Negative cop stories are one of those categories which will always draw a big response and will sell more papers/ad space so they'll put those front and center.

Decreased trust not just in cops but in government as a whole have definitely made law enforcement more difficult. Bad cops certainly don't help.

Just watch the comment section in any news site in the country about an officer-involved shooting. No matter how clear cut the issue seems to be a vast majority (completely anecdotal and not based on factual research) will immediately start talking about the coverup, the planted evidence, or the lying and murdering cops oppressing the rights of some innocent choir boy. Does that mean there's no truth to those accusations? No but it is mostly based on people who have watched too much TV and movies and had too little exposure to the real world.

Other GoonCops may have different experiences but I've noticed an increasing number of people (especially young people) who have been taught by their parents not to trust anything a cop says. That's a shocking attitude in my view because I was raised to believe that if I'm in trouble I can go find a cop and get the help I need.

The gun issue is yet another that is hugely emotional for people on both sides. My experience is that of a street cop in both a high crime state capitol and a smaller, very wealthy rural area but I haven't seen any increase in guns. What I have seen is a lot more focus on the gun itself rather than the factors that lead a person to use that gun criminally.

Gun laws in the US don't seem to have any effect on criminals getting their hands on guns. Typically the gun laws being passed (Just to make sure I'm clear, this is my OPINION only and is based on my personal research and my experiences on the job.) are nothing more than feel good measures to make politicians look good without ever addressing the actual problems.

I am all for responsible people legally carrying weapons as I believe the fear of an armed good guy does have a positive effect on crime when compared to areas where normal, everyday people have a difficult or impossible time legally carrying a weapon.

The war on drugs has been a dismal failure in almost every way except to line the pockets of lobbyists, private industries buoyed by increased prison population, and to make politicians look good during election years.

Repairing the relationship between law enforcement and the public can be repaired in two major ways in my view. Firstly, law enforcement needs to get over this weird need for secrecy in everything we do. My experience and some training officers I respect a great deal have shown me that if a cop simply explains how and why he/she has to do something it'll usually result in compliance. Suddenly people, even those I'm arresting, understand that it's nothing personal and I'm just an average guy trying to do a difficult job.

When people understand the reasoning, the policy, the training, and the dangers cops face they understand that we're not a group of jackbooted thugs out to violate everybody's rights.

The general American public needs to take a step back and start taking personal responsibility for themselves and their children. People love blaming the cops for every time their child or their husband/wife, whoever gets arrested or in trouble because they have been raised or trained to believe that all cops are liars. Painting any profession with such a broad brush is a recipe for disaster. As soon as we push our society towards an attitude of each person being held accountable for their actions it will result in a far more respectful and law-abiding public.

I apologize for the wall of text. If I'm unclear about anything please feel free to let me know and I'll clarify.

Thanks again for asking tough questions in a respectful way. That's what this thread should be about.

Anatharon
Aug 6, 2010



Do you think Police Officers should be held to a higher standard then other civilians off duty or the same standards? (or lower I guess)

SrgMagnum
Nov 12, 2007
Got old money, could buy a dinosaur

Anatharon posted:

Do you think Police Officers should be held to a higher standard then other civilians off duty or the same standards? (or lower I guess)

I believe that outside of our employment, as long as we aren't using the tools or training we received as part of that job, we should be held to the same standard as any other citizen. We're no different than any other person when it comes down to it. We are prone to the same mistakes and errors in judgement as anybody else.

Branis
Apr 14, 2006

they all wear pants that are too tight and they all secretly wanna bang wearing their campaign hats. use this to your advantage

Anatharon posted:

Do you think Police Officers should be held to a higher standard then other civilians off duty or the same standards? (or lower I guess)

could you give an example of a situation or a behavior that we should be held to a higher standard for? I'm genuinely curious as I feel like besides the base line law, there aren't many standards people are held to. Like should we not drink off duty or have to remain professional in appearance etc? I think a lot of departments have policy on things like that. I know I can't do anything that would present the department in a bad light, and since it is a rural dept and everybody knows who we are, that pretty much limits any redneck fun stuff.

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Miltank
Dec 27, 2009

Rollout. Rollout! ROLLOUT! ROLLOUT!ROLLOUT! ROLLOUT!

Is it morally wrong to break the law?

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