|
Consider this a placeholder for some real information on alarms, sprinklers, extinguishers and building features that either protect you or help you know when things have gone wrong. In the mean time, please feel free to ask any questions you may have about fire features/fire safety. Much of this is very diy-friendly.
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 23:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 01:20 |
|
|
Considering new innovations in materials used to finish interiors, if these new materials were used in new home/business construction what would the procedure be to insure code compliance. If new materials would be used to finish an already existing structure, would a diy homeowner have any concerns. Edit.. I am assuming any new type of thermal insulation, glass, or decorative laminate would have to be fire rated before being put on market. And could you suggest any decorative laminates or finishes that have an asthetic appeal as well as high fire resistance. joats fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Apr 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 23:41
|
|
|
joats posted:Considering new innovations in materials used to finish interiors, if these new materials were used in new home/business construction what would the procedure be to insure code compliance. If new materials would be used to finish an already existing structure, would a diy homeowner have any concerns. You pretty much got it in your edit. If a building material is used that isn't already commonly known it's going to get treated like it's flammable and has a lot of toxic smoke spread, which means you can't have your walls/ceilings/floors entirely covered in it. There is an allowable percentage and that depends a lot on the construction type and occupancy. Those are the rules to limit people from doing things like hanging untreated tapestries or fabric all over the walls of a common hallway that's supposed to be a safe egress corridor. To move that material into a more accepted category the manufacturer will send it off for third party analysis and testing. Any manufacturer who intends their products to be used as insulation or as a finish would do this before it hits the market, or their market would be terribly small. Glass is rarely thought of or used as a fire feature in my experience. It has to pass other types of testing based on where/what kind of occupancy which usually has a lot more to do with whether it will shatter safely rather than impaling people (if it's something close to a floor or up high over a sidewalk).
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2014 23:52
|
|
|
A question: Is there a satisfactory fire-detection system that is not subject to frequent nuisance trips? You see, in my family, we have a saying "Dinner is ready when the smoke alarm goes off" because it happens quite frequently. Originally it was due to a house built in the 1920s that had been fitted with smoke alarms in the 60s or 70s, and the way everything was set up in the kitchen and so on meant that if you grilled outside on the screen porch with the door open it would trip. Now, in another house with modern detectors, they trip for all sorts of nuisance causes, including normal cooking (no burnt food), taking a shower, or a couple people smoking in a room with the door shut. Admittedly it was the sort of big cigar that Churchill would have fancied, but you get the picture. Alternately, is there a construction method that does not require such touchy fire detectors? I'm a big fan of Brutalist architecture; if I had a house made entirely of bricks, concrete and steel, would said house require smoke alarms?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2014 04:16
|
|
|
I don't think there is a construction method that does require such touchy smoke detectors. You just have crappy smoke detectors (that are probably beyond their expected service life).
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2014 04:55
|
|
|
Red_October_7000 posted:A question: Even if your house was entirely not flammable, the poo poo inside it is. You still want a smoke detector to tell you when your flammable/poisonous smoke producing couch has gone up in flames. Zhentar posted:I don't think there is a construction method that does require such touchy smoke detectors. You just have crappy smoke detectors (that are probably beyond their expected service life). And they may be in the wrong places (very near the stove, etc.). If they're getting tripped by common every day things, there could be other issues that are not "crappy detectors". If one is going off because of the steam from your shower you probably need to check your bathroom vent fan (or use it). If one is going off from normal cooking, check your kitchen hood fan and possibly clean the filter, replace the unit. We have an alarm system unit, and it's only gone off once from cooking, and that was my husband burning the poo poo out of something. I regularly sear meats and re-cure cast iron pans and the detector has never gone off. (NOTE: I am not a fire science type person, but I have worked for most of my adult life for a contractor who has done repairs to fix problems similar to the ones you are describing)
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2014 05:12
|
|
|
Amykinz posted:If one is going off because of the steam from your shower you probably need to check your bathroom vent fan (or use it). If one is going off from normal cooking, check your kitchen hood fan and possibly clean the filter, replace the unit. This this this. Most times detectors are put in where it's convenient, rather than where they should be or no one really took the time to figure that out ahead of time and you end up with nuisance trips. A "standard smoke detector" is a photoelectric. It's sending a beam of light at a detector inside itself. If something gets in the way of that beam for long enough it goes into alert. Smoke works, but so does steam and dust. The senders and receivers get weaker over the years. They get dirty. They start to either nuisance trip or, even worse, not trip at all. These systems need to be maintained (annually or more depends on the environment) or they simply won't work properly. Most people do not do this, and think their alarms sucks or that all alarms suck: no, they're critical safety features that can't simply be ignored for 15 or 20 years and expected to still work properly. In fact, I would keep a detector head or a standalone smoke detector more than 10-15 years. Most are cheap and easy to swap out. And then you have other types of detectors for toucher situations: ionization and heat. Ionization smoke alarms are like photoelectric, but they use a bit of low level radioactive material to bounce between two plates instead of light. These tend to respond more to open flames than just smoke. It's a pretty good idea to have both types in your house if you have a larger system with more than the required number of heads. I like them in attics and basements, as they seem to nuisance trip less than photoelectrics and heats in spaces like that. While they're not available for all systems and definitely more expensive, I've seen combination photo+ionization detectors that basically need to be tripped BOTH ways to go into alert. Most codes won't allow these as required primary detection, but most codes don't require you to have a detector in your kitchen either (but you SHOULD), so they definitely have their place. And then on to heat: it does just what is sounds like. Detector gets hot, goes into alert. There are several temperature levels to choose from, which should be picked based on where the detector is going. They just look like a little plastic bump with a small metal cylinder sticking out of the middle. Red_October_7000 posted:Alternately, is there a construction method that does not require such touchy fire detectors? I'm a big fan of Brutalist architecture; if I had a house made entirely of bricks, concrete and steel, would said house require smoke alarms? In an area that otherwise requires detectors? No. And whenever I say things like "yes, always, almost always and no" in regards to code questions in this thread, please understand it to mean in a U.S. jurisdiction who has adopted a mostly unmodified version of the International Fire Code, International Building Code and International Residential Code (at least - there are more portions that are typically adopted). The i-Codes are from the International Code Council which most US jurisdictions are using (or have based their codes off of) as they are a successor organization to the former two major codes/organizations: BOCA and SBC.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2014 15:38
|
|
|
My parents live in an entirely wooden log cabin house and the only detectors in the entire building are two ancient (like, at least 1970's) solid metal bell things that I've only seen go off once when my dad set them off on purpose to test them by holding a lighter under it. They have a wood fireplace and all-electric appliances. There's another building on the property that my dad uses as a workshop which has no smoke alarms at all. This building contains all sorts of volatile, flammable solvents and other fun friends. They live in a small forest back from the road at least a quarter mile from the nearest hydrant or body of water. Are they going to be very dead or super incredibly dead if they ever have a fire? Also where should I even start when it comes to nagging them to invest in proper fire safety? Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Apr 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
Parallel Paraplegic posted:Are they going to be very dead or super incredibly dead if they ever have a fire? Also where should I even start when it comes to nagging them to invest in proper fire safety? Just buy them some new smoke detectors. Install 'em yourself even. The house is probably unrecoverable in the case of fire, but that's often true even if you live in suburbia; the main thing is to get the people away from the fire before anyone gets hurt/killed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2014 02:50
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Just buy them some new smoke detectors. Install 'em yourself even. and bring a stack of 9v batteries over at least once a year and replace all the batteries yourself. Far too many people just do not give a poo poo about chirping smoke detectors. I have an annoying habit of telling people to replace the battery in their chirping smoke detector every single time I hear it chirp. Thanks Loveline!
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2014 03:01
|
|
|
I guess I'll pick up some smoke detectors on my way over there for Easter dinner. If I can afford it I'll look into getting them a full security system with monitoring like Motronic mentioned in the crappy construction tales thread, my parents are getting kinda old and slow and I get the feeling that my dad would wait to see if he could put the fire out himself before calling 911 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2014 04:51
|
|
|
Do like my dad did for his elderly father and do all repairs after his 5pm bedtime. That's the only way things got done around the house.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2014 05:06
|
|
|
MisterOblivious posted:Far too many people just do not give a poo poo about chirping smoke detectors. I have an annoying habit of telling people to replace the battery in their chirping smoke detector every single time I hear it chirp. Thanks Loveline! I do food delivery. Most of my delivery area is $$$$$ houses. I'd say at least a quarter of the houses I show up to have chirping smoke detectors. Some of these houses are less than 3 months old, most of them under 2 years old, so I assume the builder was just a cheapass. Either way.... how the gently caress do these people sleep with 5+ chirps every couple of minutes from every corner of their house?! If it was a random thing now and then I'd chalk it up to "okay, their batteries took a crap today". But I've been delivering in this area for nearly a year, and all of the houses that were chirping on my first day are still chirping. Motronic posted:A "standard smoke detector" is a photoelectric. Somewhat related - does this vary depending on parts of the country? Every house I've lived in, except for one, had an ionization style. All 6 detectors in the house I'm in now are ionization. Every apartment I've lived in had an ionization type. The one house that had a photoelectric... had it just outside the bathroom. It went apeshit every time someone took a shower.  As for the apartments - I lived in a 60s apartment that had been retrofitted with (one) battery powered ionization detector. I walked into my apartment one day and found it full of light smoke (white, but enough to make me go "ohshit" and call 911); downstairs neighbor had left a greasy pan on the stove and left, forgetting to turn it off. My smoke alarm never made a peep, despite my apartment being full of smoke with a working grease fire in the kitchen below.  They did mention the downstairs neighbor had removed the battery from theirs (their smoke alarm frequently went apeshit at all hours - zero insulation in the place, I could smell when my neighbor took a poo poo.. and could hear his smoke alarm), but the fact that I had an apartment full of smoke, with a working fire in the kitchen below my apartment, with nary a peep, was a little disconcerting.
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Apr 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2014 10:08
|
|
|
some texas redneck posted:
Ionization is more common for residential, at least in my experience. For commercial buildings pretty much every smoke detector that we use where I work is a photoelectric.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2014 16:05
|
|
|
some texas redneck posted:Somewhat related - does this vary depending on parts of the country? Based on what you and keyboard said, I'm gonna guess it does depend on the part of the country. Possibly even the installer/company and when it was installed. I was wrong about hoe common they are now - I was basing this off of my experience at the time in the northeast. I looked around and now even the $6 basic Kidde 9000 series battery smokes are combo these days, And even those cheapies have been approved as primary devices. When I was doing this type of thing they were "new" stuff and still relatively uncommon outside of more expensive central station equipment. So with that in mind: there's no excuse not to use them. They nuisance trip a LOT less. And there should even be acceptable retrofit devices for existing central systems. e: Looks like DSC has gone photo + heat. That works too. Motronic fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Apr 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2014 16:37
|
|
|
My house is a single-story wood frame on concrete footings structure with crawlspace and unfinished attic, insulated with blown-in insulation that is at least 20 years old. The house was built in 1958 and is in California. It has actual drywall (not horsehair lathe-and-plaster), 70% hardwood floors, the remaining 30% being marble or linoleum over wood subfloor. We have a big rug in the living room but otherwise no carpeting. HVAC is ducted gas furnace/electric A/C, with the A/C compressor on a concrete pad outside at the back of the house. The wiring is vintage insulated copper (not knob-and-tube) and an elderly, but not original, panel at the side of the house. Our smoke alarms are all currently disabled. They're old, and the one I tried to replace a battery in, I couldn't get open, even after I took it off the ceiling. And I'm a mechanically-inclined kind of guy who knows how to solder and repair cars and blacksmith and that kind of thing, so I'm not some idiot. I can go grab one if it's worth considering continuing to use them and I should identify it, but I'm betting I should just be replacing all of them. But I am an idiot because we currently have no working smoke detection. If I drew up a scale floorplan, how difficult would it be to identify exactly where detectors should be, what type they should be, and what brand/make is best? I can show where the current mounts are, and would prefer to use them, but safety is more important than repairing and painting over the circles on the ceiling.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
If you had a reasonable floor plan it would be pretty easy. Chances are "where the existing ones are" is a really good start. But someone looking at a floor plan alone isn't always enough. It should still get you close. Also....what are you talking about here? Interconnected AC smokes with a battery backup and no central station alarm?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2014 22:31
|
|
|
The existing ones? They're not interconnected, they're just individual alarms on the ceiling. There's one in the hallway outside the three bedrooms, one in each bedroom, and that's it. There's an ADT box on the house, rusty and ancient, but no sign of alarm systems inside. I think all the windows were replaced with double-paned ones probably fifteen or so years ago, so perhaps the alarm infrastructure was removed at that point. There's no existing security system. I also don't use a phone line - we have satellite TV, cable internet, and we use our cell phones. We had DSL when we moved in but there was some kind of issue with it that three different ISPs couldn't resolve, so we had to switch to cable (gently caress you, Comcast). So, if a fire alarm system can use the phone line without having phone service activated, great, otherwise uh I dunno what the right thing to do would be. I've been meaning to make an accurate floor plan for a while now, just to do some other home improvement planning, so I guess I should get around to that soon. e. Oh the house is just 1200 square feet, three bedrooms around a central hallway and then in the front a kitchen/dining room room mostly open to a living room. I'll make a very quick not-to-scale sketch just to give a basic idea. e2:  The water heater, stove, and furnace are all gas. I forgot to note it but there's also a gas dryer on the wall of the garage near the water heater. The AC is electric, on its own 40 amp circuit. It's at least 25 years old, maybe more. Assume there's old, but not necessarily hazardous, wiring in every wall. There are also windows in every room along the exterior walls pretty much everywhere you could put one. Every window could serve as a fire escape except the ones in the bathrooms which might be a little too small. e3 drat I forgot to denote the fireplace/chimney, because we don't use it (all the flue metalwork has to be replaced, it's rusted to pieces). It is along the right wall in the middle of the living room. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Apr 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2014 22:36
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:The existing ones? They're not interconnected, they're just individual alarms on the ceiling. There's one in the hallway outside the three bedrooms, one in each bedroom, and that's it. Based on your drawings, those look pretty good. It wouldn't hurt to throw one (a photo+heat or photo+ion) in the kitchen, somewhere near the middle of the room (not too close to the stove, a sink, or a dishwasher......all of which will produce enough steam to false trip). I would DEFINITELY have one in the garage, and I would DEFINITELY want a CO in the kitchen near the garage door and outside of the furnace closet. If I were going full on, I would put a gas detector inside the furnace closet as well as in the garage (near the man door). I would also want one or more smoke+heats in the attic. People forget about that, but there's typically at least some amount of electrical up there and you'd rather know something has gone sideways before it burns through into the first floor. As far as interconnection, you can go a few different ways. The easiest is just individual detectors. The second would be "AC Smokes", which I would skip in favor of an actual central station alarm system. You can put these together yourself, and the right panels will be able to or have a module available to do central station over IP (which your homeowner's insurance may not count) or you can get a GSM module to do it over cellular. There are usually VERY low cost monthly plans for this type of thing, and some central station services will even handle the service as part of your monthly monitoring fee (and send you a SIM card to put in your system). Since the house is 1200 sq. ft. I wouldn't bother with interconnection at all unless you want central station. You'll be able to hear the detectors plenty fine as individuals. Just to highlight something buried in that wall of text: check with your insurance company before you decide. You very well might get a sizable enough discount with a central station setup that it will pay for itself pretty quickly. Make sure you build to meet those requirements and you can have a paid-for system in no time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2014 00:46
|
|
|
Excellent, thanks for your analysis. I will present your findings to my boss (the wife) and get in touch with our homeowners insurance co.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2014 07:08
|
|
|
Motronic posted:e: Looks like DSC has gone photo + heat. That works too. Don't forget that you can mix brands when you're dealing with residential stuff. For that matter, I don't even know if Silent Knight (who only makes commercial fire panels today) makes detectors or sensors anymore. My dad's house still has a working Silent Knight burglar alarm from 1984  (with Ademco smokes)You'd see absolutely zero issue hooking Ademco detectors up to a DSC panel, as long as they're properly wired (only real difference is 2 and 4 wire; 4 wire is preferred, and is generally addressable... 2 wire may or may not be addressable - but in a home install, you won't really see addressable anyway).
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2014 10:21
|
|
|
some texas redneck posted:Don't forget that you can mix brands when you're dealing with residential stuff. Yes....you can in most cases. I wouldn't advise it, but you can. Because when something goes wrong.....and it will....you have two vendors pointing the finger at each other. So chalk that one up to personal preference and volume of (bad) experience.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2014 14:55
|
|
|
What are your thoughts on the consumer-grade security systems from the likes of DSC, GE, etc? I have a DSC Alexor (with monitoring - GeoArm is a great company BTW) in my home and I'm getting ready to add a few monitored smoke and CO2 sensors. These would supplement our existing smoke detectors, all of which are hard-wired with battery backups. Whether it matters or not, this is a new (2013) three-story townhouse with sprinklers. One of my neighbors got a security system from a local dealer who said that wireless systems aren't up to code. I can't imagine this being the case, especially when they're being used alongside and independently of an existing compliant system. But it got me thinking about the reliability of these suckers. We're still going to put them in, because it's an added layer of safety, but do you have any experience on the reliability of these things? I just can't imagine that they're any less reliable than the $5 detectors people pick up at Wal-Mart. EDIT: Motronic posted:you can get a GSM module to do it over cellular. There are usually VERY low cost monthly plans for this type of thing, and some central station services will even handle the service as part of your monthly monitoring fee (and send you a SIM card to put in your system). Just remember that we're about 18 months away from the GSM 2G sunset, which means that anything that works over GPRS (or worse, circuit-switched data) isn't going to work after the end of 2016, give or take. If you get a cellular adapter, make sure it's on one of the 3G technologies such as EVDO or HSPA. SwivelTits2000 fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Apr 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2014 17:14
|
|
|
SwivelTits2000 posted:What are your thoughts on the consumer-grade security systems from the likes of DSC, GE, etc? I have a DSC Alexor (with monitoring - GeoArm is a great company BTW) in my home and I'm getting ready to add a few monitored smoke and CO2 sensors. These would supplement our existing smoke detectors, all of which are hard-wired with battery backups. Whether it matters or not, this is a new (2013) three-story townhouse with sprinklers. They definitely can be less reliable than a $5 detector from wal-mart if you're got the right types of interference. If everything is configured properly this will result in a "trouble" on the panel, rather than an actual alarm. I don't have any experience with new (like less than 5 or so years) wireless systems, but when I was doing this I wouldn't have one in my own house wether it was up to code or not. As far as code compliance, I really don't know. I've seen wireless used mostly with burglar systems, which has no similar compliance requirements. But if they are supplemental I really don't see how anyone could come up with a real argument to say that you can't do it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2014 18:50
|
|
|
I live in an old victorian firetrap with 20 foot ceilings and the building manager interpreted my complaint about chirping detectors to mean "remove the detectors." I want to put them back now that I have new batteries but I don't have a tall enough ladder. Can I put them partway up the wall or do they absolutely need to be way up on the ceiling? I feel like I'll be dead before smoke even gets up there and they're harder to reach to replace batteries or turn off if they go off by accident. Also should I have CO or radon detection? It's a 1910 building in SF with natural gas. Obviously the earthquake is going to do us all in but I can prepare for the aftermath anyway.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2014 05:03
|
|
|
fuzzy_logic posted:
It's the LAW in California that you should have carbon monoxide detectors installed in your apartment. Print out Senate Bill 183 and tell your landlord to get off his rear end and install them, he's a year and a half too late. http://www.sccfd.org/pub_ed/co_alarm_law.html Edit: While you're doing that, tell him to reinstall the drat detectors. Removing them is bullshit and could get his rear end in serious trouble. Amykinz fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Apr 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2014 05:16
|
|
|
Amykinz posted:It's the LAW in California that you should have carbon monoxide detectors installed in your apartment. Print out Senate Bill 183 and tell your landlord to get off his rear end and install them, he's a year and a half too late. Turns out we do have one in the hall, I thought it was a smoke detector because for some reason I thought CO went near the floor (I think I had it confused with CO2 which is very heavy). Internet seems to say high up on the wall is fine, so I'm going to pick up a detector for my room and one for the kitchen, then we should be all up to code and I can just bill the property manager. If I make him do it it'll take like six months for him to be sober enough to remember that he was supposed to come over here. While we were examining the apartment we also noticed we have a building fire alarm, like the ancient kind with a bell and a clapper in the hallway. Fifty bucks says there's no way in hell that thing is connected to anything but it is kind of neat looking. If I can get up closer to it I'll try to get a picture.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2014 21:38
|
|
|
fuzzy_logic posted:While we were examining the apartment we also noticed we have a building fire alarm, like the ancient kind with a bell and a clapper in the hallway. Fifty bucks says there's no way in hell that thing is connected to anything but it is kind of neat looking. If I can get up closer to it I'll try to get a picture. Unless code enforcement has been asleep that alarm should be working and would service all of the common areas of the building. Yes, you can put smokes lower on the wall, but they are typically going to perform best (meaning fastest response time) when they are mounted at the highest point.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2014 21:45
|
|
|
Motronic posted:Yes, you can put smokes lower on the wall, but they are typically going to perform best (meaning fastest response time) when they are mounted at the highest point. Smoke detectors or carbon monoxide detectors? I thought the CO detectors were supposed to go midway up the wall or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2014 23:37
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Smoke detectors or carbon monoxide detectors? I thought the CO detectors were supposed to go midway up the wall or something. Smokes. CO detector recommendations vary by manufacturer, but I'm of the mind that they should also be up high as the most likely sources of CO are going be be exhaust from fueled appliances. At the same temperature, CO's specific gravity is so close to that of air (but just a tad lower) that it makes no difference outside of a laboratory. Exhaust is likely to be warmer than the air inside the protected space, so it will rise. The basic logic behind this is that hot gasses, whether smoke or exhaust containing CO, will rise and collect in the highest spots. The lower you put the detectors the longer it will take for them to detect if it's not in their direct path as the substance will have to "bank" down off of these highest parts to make it to the lower detectors.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2014 00:28
|
|
|
Exactly what Motronic said. You CAN mount CO detectors lower (mine is actually mounted to the wall in the hallway, above my thermostat.. though it also has a LCD display on it and requires regular battery replacements), but most sources of CO are spitting it out with heated air. If you're putting the CO detector near sources of possible CO, higher is better (that said, don't mount it in your kitchen if you have a gas range and/or gas oven). If you have decent air flow in the home, halfway up a wall is doable for a CO detector. Not ideal, but doable. The installation guide for my CO detector (a battery powered Kiddie model from ~2010) suggests wall mounting.. or leaving it on a table. There's several versions of consumer CO detectors - Kiddie makes ceiling-mount (which resemble a smoke alarm - many of the ones claiming CO monitoring are also smoke detectors, but check the packaging and model to be sure), wall-mount (like the one I have), and "plug in" (completely self contained, it plugs into a wall outlet). I wouldn't use a plug-in if the outlet isn't at least counter-height, personally. As long as you keep them at least counter-height, keep them out of dead areas (such as the peak of a ceiling, or the corner of a room), and away from vents/return air ducts, then you're a lot better off than if you didn't have a detector. Most restaurants I've worked in used a plug-in model somewhere in the kitchen, if they didn't have something tied into the fire alarm system. fuzzy_logic posted:While we were examining the apartment we also noticed we have a building fire alarm, like the ancient kind with a bell and a clapper in the hallway. Fifty bucks says there's no way in hell that thing is connected to anything but it is kind of neat looking. If I can get up closer to it I'll try to get a picture. $50 also says that's either abandoned completely (as in not even connected to anything anymore, but removing it would leave an ugly hole in the wall) in favor of a more modern system, or tied into a system slightly newer than the bell. That style sounder pulls an obscene amount of power compared to newer solid state stuff. And frankly, most of today's generation would hear that and wonder "is that my tinnitus? *flips fedora hat 180 degrees*". fuzzy_logic posted:Can I put them partway up the wall or do they absolutely need to be way up on the ceiling? Generally, you want them away from a corner, more than 4 inches (but less than 12 inches) from where the wall meets the ceiling, away from any vents (including return-air ducts, if you have central heat/AC), away from the kitchen, and away from "dead spots" (places where no air is moving - such as at the peak of a gabled ceiling, or in a corner, that kind of stuff). You absolutely don't want to do what one of my apartments did - they placed it directly over a ceiling fan (a fan that ran 24/7 for the 2 years I lived there), less than a foot from the return air duct for the HVAC.  I'm guessing the owner of the company that built the property gave amazing head, since that was a huge code violation when the place was built.This is the easiest to read version that I've been able to dig up when it comes to placement (and matches what I've read in the install booklet for most smoke alarms I've purchased). Of course, double check to see what your city requires, but it's likely similar. e: slightly related - when my last apartment changed ownership, the local FD (along with many, many other city services) had to sign off. The smoke alarms (AC) had been mounted 2 1/2 ft from the ceiling in every apartment; in the smallest 1 bedroom (my old floorplan), it also sat next to the return air duct. The new owners had to either move the original smokes up about 18 inches, or install new battery powered units 18 inches up. They went with "install new battery powered unit directly above existing AC powered unit, inform residents they had to change batteries in both detectors from now on". I learned a few times afterwards that the original AC powered units worked far better than the  replacements, thanks to drunken kitchen shenanigans.
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Apr 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2014 12:16
|
|
|
I spent a couple summers interning at a fire protection engineering firm and can probably answer any questions on the commercial side of things (aka, large buildings like schools, office buildings, stuff like that). I spent a lot (A Lot.) of time reading the NFPA code books in addition to design/layout and inspection work. It also made me 100% sure that if I ever built my own house, I drat well would include sprinklers in it. The post-mortem fire reports the NFPA puts out every so often are very sobering and probably half of them would have been nothing but a small fire that got put out in 30 seconds if there was one single sprinkler head in the place. Frinkahedron fucked around with this message at 03:41 on May 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 5, 2014 03:38
|
|
|
Frinkahedron posted:I spent a couple summers interning at a fire protection engineering firm and can probably answer any questions on the commercial side of things (aka, large buildings like schools, office buildings, stuff like that). I spent a lot (A Lot.) of time reading the NFPA code books in addition to design/layout and inspection work. Is there a particular area that should get a sprinkler head in a residential home?
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2014 21:30
|
|
|
dietcokefiend posted:Is there a particular area that should get a sprinkler head in a residential home? You can't predict that (one head), so you have to sprinkler the "entire" home, meaning coverage based on well established formulas for risk and hazard. Most importantly, and I think I've said this before in this thread: residential sprinklers are not engineered to put out fire. The often do, but they are not designed for it. They are engineered to get you 20 minutes to safely exit. Commercial sprinklers are engineered to put out fire. This basically means more heads, more heads designed to be open at the same time and therefore bigger pipe and a much increased water volume and pressure requirement (often much more than a standard residential water supply to cover a normal sized home). So bottom line: mo money.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2014 00:24
|
|
|
dietcokefiend posted:Is there a particular area that should get a sprinkler head in a residential home? Kitchens and bedrooms were the two fire biggest starting locations in the reports I read. Kitchens because kitchen fires are common and a ruined kitchen is better than a burned down house. (And how many people do you know can get to a fire extinguisher in only a few seconds from their kitchen? Or even own a fire extinguisher?) A lot of people die in bedrooms because they're asleep when a fire occurs. If the fire starts somewhere else, they die of smoke inhalation and a sprinkler wouldn't help you. (Get a smoke alarm!) Usually fires start in a bedroom because someone dropped a cigarette when they fell asleep. Now this doesn't actually help you in deciding where to put a sprinkler head, because like Motronic said, you need a blanket of coverage to actually protect you. I don't have a lot of first hand experience on the residential side, so that's about all I can tell you. e: Commercial kitchens have sprinklers directly above cooking areas, but again, commercial grade means
Frinkahedron fucked around with this message at 01:16 on May 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 7, 2014 01:12
|
|
|
Frinkahedron posted:e: Commercial kitchens have sprinklers directly above cooking areas, but again, commercial grade means Pretty much 99% of the time you see "sprinklers" directly above a cooking area (such as a stove, oven, fryer, etc) in a commercial setting, it's a system meant for kitchen fires, such as Ansul (the one I linked is the one I see in every kitchen I've worked in). They're generally liquid + CO2 based. They generally have a piece in the exhaust hood that melts if temps get too high (which will open up the "sprinklers"). They always have a manual handle as well. The cleanup is expensive, but it's far better than the place burning down. You do not want a typical fire sprinkler to handle a kitchen fire. Water and grease don't mix very well (and a kitchen fire almost always involves grease) - especially when you add fire (a water sprinkler will just spread the fire; the grease will float on top of the water and continue to burn).
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2014 09:07
|
|
|
some texas redneck posted:You do not want a typical fire sprinkler to handle a kitchen fire. Water and grease don't mix very well (and a kitchen fire almost always involves grease) - especially when you add fire (a water sprinkler will just spread the fire; the grease will float on top of the water and continue to burn). Oh it's potentially worse: if the grease is hot, the water can explode into steam, the steam aeresolizes the oil, and you can get a huge billowing fireball as a result.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2014 18:48
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:Oh it's potentially worse: if the grease is hot, the water can explode into steam, the steam aeresolizes the oil, and you can get a huge billowing fireball as a result. My buddy called that effect Wizard's Water. It was a demo he did for fire safety. He got a nice fry pan fire going, then would shout "I cast Fireball!" and hose the fire down with a kitchen sink spray attachment. Queue the huge billowing fireball. Most people retained the lesson "grease fire + water - bad" real well after that demo.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 03:09
|
|
|
We just bought a newly renovated house and I would love help on which alarms to place where. I present my artist rendering of the blueprint: I was original planning on buying a CO2 alarm for each room per my dad's usual rule (3 bedrms, living, kitchen, den, laundry, storage, and garage) but should I add in smoke alarms? Also I was going to buy 2 fire extinguishers and place one in the kitchen hallway and one in the storage area, should I buy more or alter their placements?
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2014 22:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 01:20 |
|
|
jomiel posted:We just bought a newly renovated house and I would love help on which alarms to place where. I present my artist rendering of the blueprint: I'd put some smoke detectors in the bedrooms, I'm not sure where you live but that's usually required for residential code. I'd just put a smoke alarm wherever you're putting CO detectors. As for fire extinguishers, I like to keep one in the kitchen within easy reach and one in the garage.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2014 16:00
|
|