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Brainamp posted:Don't worry, Humanity's already made three Chaos Gods. What's one more onto the the pile? Nah, we didn't make them. They've been around for as long as violence, disease, and, uhhh... mutation and magic have been around. No, humans just made them worse!  vvvvvvv Totally a greater daemon of Chaos Undivided! vvvvvvv Who What Now fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 01:53
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Torchlighter posted:Th beauty of the Warhammer 40K universe is that GW policy actually supports any and all fiction as being canonical, since it states that all fiction is technically supposed to be documents written by people in the universe itself. It does lead to all sorts of inconsistencies, but those are considered to be mistakes made by the authors, who don't always get things right. Thanks to this thread and long conversations with my 40k friends I decided that I would make a Chaos army. Now this right here is giving me the a-ok to have my army be worshiping Chernabog 
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Apr 21, 2014 01:59
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My favorite thing about Warhammer 40K has to be that the IG are definitely the cream of the crop. They get all the best gear and all the best training. Then they die by the millions because none of it really matters. The tabletop explicitly states that if you want to mix them together, a straight up Imperial Guardsman with no special issue stuff and walking out on his first day of Imperial Guardsmanship is as strong as a a regular Dark Heresy character with about 2400 EXP, which is like 20 or 30 hours of tabletop play. And then you are given 600 EXP to spend on stuff you knew before or learned in training. Deathwatch says somewhere that you just shouldn't even try to mix a Marine with non-marines. This game illustrates why. Whole companies of Imperial Guard don't seem to accomplish the kind of things two or three space marines can manage alone. bobthethurd fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 03:10
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bobthethurd posted:My favorite thing about Warhammer 40K has to be that the IG are definitely the cream of the crop. They get all the best gear and all the best training. Then they die by the millions because none of it really matters. To be fair, though, it's a big enough galaxy that how powerful marines are compared to humans being very inconsistent in writing is very much rational and sensible in-setting. It's not unknown for normal humans to take out Marines with magnetic acceleration crossbows firing poison-tipped bolts or defeat them hand to hand, and it's not unknown for lone marines to kill highly trained soldiers by the hundred.
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Apr 21, 2014 03:26
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That's just the rule of cool being in effect. Ciaphas Cain once took down a Bloodthirster in single combat if my memory serves me right. He's just a dude.
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Apr 21, 2014 04:08
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Coolguye posted:That's just the rule of cool being in effect. Ciaphas Cain once took down a Bloodthirster in single combat if my memory serves me right. He's just a dude. More than once! And a no-poo poo Warboss too. For a self-proclaimed coward the guy sure gets into a lot of poo poo vv Okay, point, but he still got the Warboss 
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 04:11
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Coolguye posted:That's just the rule of cool being in effect. Ciaphas Cain once took down a Bloodthirster in single combat if my memory serves me right. He's just a dude. Not that I'm aware of. There was a Chaos Space Marine he fought to a standstill in close combat for a few seconds, long enough for Jurgen to take a shot. Then later, a wounded one he outright killed himself. There was a greater daemon that he helped kill, but it was mostly Jurgen's blank-ness that allowed the Guard to win the day there. That and the 20 or so troopers there.
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Apr 21, 2014 04:13
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Coolguye posted:That's just the rule of cool being in effect. Ciaphas Cain once took down a Bloodthirster in single combat if my memory serves me right. He's just a dude. It was a Keeper of Secrets, not a Bloodthirster. AKA the greater daemon that has yet to make an appearance in a 40k video game and probably never will.
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Apr 21, 2014 04:17
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Cythereal posted:It was a Keeper of Secrets, not a Bloodthirster. AKA the greater daemon that has yet to make an appearance in a 40k video game and probably never will. It's kind of annoying that Khorne is the go to chaos god for poo poo like that. He's sort of like the Ultramarines in that regard. apostateCourier posted:Not that I'm aware of. There was a Chaos Space Marine he fought to a standstill in close combat for a few seconds, long enough for Jurgen to take a shot. Then later, a wounded one he outright killed himself. Sounds he did it all himself to me. And with both hands tied behind his back. Dammit, now I want an IG game ala space marine. Just, you know, not as one of the fodder troops.
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Apr 21, 2014 04:29
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Brainamp posted:It's kind of annoying that Khorne is the go to chaos god for poo poo like that. He's sort of like the Ultramarines in that regard. Eh. Like the Ultramarines, I can understand why Khorne is the most popular Chaos god for this sort of thing. He's simple, easy to portray, has daemons that lend themselves well to being generic enemies/units, and has a nice catchphrase. Chaos Rising at least changed things up with a Great Unclean One being the main villain, and if I remember right a Lord of Change was the final boss of Fire Warrior.
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Apr 21, 2014 04:45
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Ciaphas posted:More than once! And a no-poo poo Warboss too. For a self-proclaimed coward the guy sure gets into a lot of poo poo The Cain books are fun primarily because for all of his posturing, self-deprecation, and assurances that everything he has done has been primarily to save his own rear end, he is every inch the Big drat Hero he was made out to be. It's the reason why Amberly Vail (his on-again, off-again Inquisitor girlfriend) is making his memoirs available to other members of her order: she clearly, truly believes him to be that Hero, and she wants others to see him as she knew him. Which means the Cain novels are secretly a love story. 
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Apr 21, 2014 05:00
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Brainamp posted:It's kind of annoying that Khorne is the go to chaos god for poo poo like that. He's sort of like the Ultramarines in that regard. It's probably because his poo poo is more straightforward than a lot of the other Chaos Gods to be honest. Some things might be too obtuse or such for it to work in a game setting.
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Apr 21, 2014 05:01
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Zain posted:It's probably because his poo poo is more straightforward than a lot of the other Chaos Gods to be honest. Some things might be too obtuse or such for it to work in a game setting. Khorne can be complicated! It's just really hard to do it right. Dan Abnett does a pretty good job when he tells things from the Chaos perspective in the Gaunt's Ghosts books.
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Apr 21, 2014 05:04
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Any chaos demons that show up have a very high chance to be Khornite just because "Big red angry X" is easily identifiable as a demon. Conversely though most of the time the armies of Chaos are lead by Sorcerers, which Khorne does not like in any way. It gets even weirder when you have Chaos Psykers summoning Khorne demons in the DOW games.
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Apr 21, 2014 05:17
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apostateCourier posted:Not that I'm aware of. There was a Chaos Space Marine he fought to a standstill in close combat for a few seconds, long enough for Jurgen to take a shot. Then later, a wounded one he outright killed himself. The Greater Daemon got killed by Jurgen severing its connection to the Warp. Cain just sealed the deal by disrupting its physical form (AKA shooting it in the face). At some point, he spends a while on a Space Marine ship after they rescue him from the Necrons, and spars with their Techmarine daily, which is the primary reason why he's a master swordsman. His biggest achievement is managing to touch the nerdiest of space marines with his sword once, and the space marine kept the tiny dent in his armor as a reminder not to underestimate his opponents. Every time Cain faces an extremely powerful enemy, there's something additional working in his favor - the exception being the Warboss whom he straight up killed in a duel.
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Apr 21, 2014 05:48
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Also, you know, most of the games are about slaughtering a lot of dudes, and that's kinda Khorne's one thing. The thing the big red bastard won't shut up about.
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Apr 21, 2014 05:50
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Cythereal posted:It was a Keeper of Secrets, not a Bloodthirster. AKA the greater daemon that has yet to make an appearance in a 40k video game and probably never will. A keeper of secrets did make an appearance in warhammer online though.
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Apr 21, 2014 05:59
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RickVoid posted:The Cain books are fun primarily because for all of his posturing, self-deprecation, and assurances that everything he has done has been primarily to save his own rear end, he is every inch the Big drat Hero he was made out to be. It's the reason why Amberly Vail (his on-again, off-again Inquisitor girlfriend) is making his memoirs available to other members of her order: she clearly, truly believes him to be that Hero, and she wants others to see him as she knew him. Well, they're in a relationship while they're on the same planet. But he's a Guard Commissar, and she's an Inquisitor. Their jobs tend to take them all over the place. And having a designated romantic interest might make them more of a target. As well as sparring with a Tech Marine, Cain also spent the three months in an escape pod on his way to fight the Ork warboss praticing his sword drill. Mostly so he'd have something to keep him out of the same room as Jurgen. Besides the Warboss, most of Cain's really big kills are set up when Jurgen sidles too close and counters their Warp malarky. Or just plain shoots them, since, much like Cain and his Inquisition procured Carapace Armour, Jurgen has never bothered putting that one back into stores.
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Apr 21, 2014 06:08
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Veloxyll posted:Well, they're in a relationship while they're on the same planet. But he's a Guard Commissar, and she's an Inquisitor. Their jobs tend to take them all over the place. And having a designated romantic interest might make them more of a target. It's actually a non-issue for her at the time she's releasing his memoirs, as he's already dead. The fact that she is putting in the time and effort to edit and order the things for him, posthumously, tells us a lot about the two characters that doesn't necessarily come through in what he writes about her, and what she in turn writes about him. It's called "Show, don't Tell" and very, very few writers are good at it. Another thing I need to give Sandy Mitchel credit for: he took a concept that Abnett introduced to the setting and did a much better job with it. As much as I love Alizabeth in the Eisenhorn novels, Jurgen is a way better example of a Pariah.
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Apr 21, 2014 07:22
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That too. There are so many good things in the Ciaphas Cain novels, really. The Administratum will never believe that Ciaphas is dead. He lives on forever in their paperwork. I would be surprised if Amberley was that worried about Ciaphas's amorous adventures anyhow. Assuming she didn't know about them at the time. She doesn't seem like the jealous type.
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Apr 21, 2014 07:43
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Cythereal posted:It was a Keeper of Secrets, not a Bloodthirster. AKA the greater daemon that has yet to make an appearance in a 40k video game and probably never will. Wait, where did Lords of Change turn up?
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Apr 21, 2014 10:25
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MooCowlian posted:Wait, where did Lords of Change turn up? One is the final boss in Fire Warrior. It's not very well executed. Which is a goddamn shame because Tzeentch is by far the most badass Chaos god.
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Apr 21, 2014 10:51
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RickVoid posted:The Cain books are fun primarily because for all of his posturing, self-deprecation, and assurances that everything he has done has been primarily to save his own rear end, he is every inch the Big drat Hero he was made out to be. It's the reason why Amberly Vail (his on-again, off-again Inquisitor girlfriend) is making his memoirs available to other members of her order: she clearly, truly believes him to be that Hero, and she wants others to see him as she knew him. Even better, he's legit terrified and doesn't want to pull all the stunts he does, but does it anyway because someone has to. That's a real hero there. Which reminds me, there's this story floating around where the Emperor takes over a body of a Tarrasque from D&D (fluffed as a daemon in the story) and goes around the galaxy setting things right and wrecking poo poo with his kickass new body and still-awesome psyker powers. He teleports onto a ship making way to assault a planet and lo and behold, Cain's on that ship. Cain's all "ohshitohshitoshit please don't read my mind I never meant all that stuff I thought honest" and Emperor's speaks to him in his head, basically telling him "it's alright, I know, it's cool, you do what you have to do".
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Apr 21, 2014 11:50
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Damegane posted:Even better, he's legit terrified and doesn't want to pull all the stunts he does, but does it anyway because someone has to. That's a real hero there. This one? It's pretty great.
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Apr 21, 2014 11:53
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As Cain pointed out in one of the stories - if the Emperor wanted him dead, there have been ample opportunities. The Emperor doesn't seem to mind his behaviour though. Alternatively - The Emperor has the whole Imperium to watch over, so he's just helping out by, say, finding good cover, encouraging his troopers to care for his well-being, charging sorcerors (when there isn't artillery to drop on them).
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Apr 21, 2014 12:33
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Ciaphus Cain is a completely understandable and very brave normal human who lives in a culture that exalts insane, fanatical devotion to such a degree that comparing himself to what the Imperium says it expects of people like him would always make him appear to be a coward in his own self-assessment. I think the thing that attracts people to the Warhams so is mostly the bigness and how easy it is to rewrite the setting or come up with your own stuff. I wouldn't say it's similar to Twilight, but it's kind of the same principle; the setting is big and most of the official stuff is so one-note and blank that it's really, really easy to fill in your own stuff and start to form a personal attachment to it, especially if you spend hours writing for an RPG group or painting your plastic mans or boats (I love my boats). There's always space to write your own stuff, or read stuff that you find to be appealing like Cain, or play the stuff that's pretty good like the Relic games.
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Apr 21, 2014 16:46
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I just want to take a break from this WH40K protagonist discussion to just bring up the fact that Boltguns, being the standard armament of Adeptus Astartes everywhere, are loving huge! As you saw in the video the shells are .997 in diameter and the slugs are .75 Armor Piercing, High Explosive (APHE) rounds. If .50 BMG can tear light vehicles and soldiers alike apart, I'm sure one of these rounds would too. But they don't. RoboKy has to put 5-10 rounds in each orc to bring it down. Something has to be wrong with the universe if you can't kill a sub 10 foot tall humanoid with a bullet bigger than a paintball.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:25
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Well you have to remember that Orkz are 8 foot tall slabs of walking fungus that have only rudimentary organs and nervous systems. They can run, chop, dakka, and chomp and that's about it. You'll see that "feel pain" and "die" aren't on that list.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:38
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In all the stories, it usually only take one or two shots to put an ork down, depending on the ork. Since the focus in this game is getting stuck in and punching/sawing/smashing your enemies to tiny bits (in thy mercy) ranged weapons are meant to buy some time or weaken enemies for the aforementioned punching/sawing/smashing.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:41
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It also puts into perspective how badly things are stacked against the Imperial Guard when IG lasguns can put perfect 1-inch radius hemispherical holes in thick metal walls, but might as well be just a flashlight when compared to what they usually have to shoot at. They do mess up human targets (cultists, renegades, etc) perfectly well though, from what we see in the various books.
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Apr 21, 2014 20:28
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Also, all guns in 40k operate primarily on Action Movie Physics: If it's super dramatic and appropriate, the laspistol will blow the ork's head off. If it isn't, the Ork will become angry(er) and then the melee fight will commence. It's really no different for the Astartes.
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Apr 21, 2014 20:34
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Who What Now posted:Well you have to remember that Orkz are 8 foot tall slabs of walking fungus that have only rudimentary organs and nervous systems. They can run, chop, dakka, and chomp and that's about it. You'll see that "feel pain" and "die" aren't on that list. Poil fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Apr 21, 2014 |
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Apr 21, 2014 20:34
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The Imperial Guard are the best. Mainly because their tactics suit mine pretty drat well in the Dawn of War games. Dig in and mass infantry, armor and artillery, and then just use the arty and rush out after a good bombardment. Guard infantry that mass their fire are drat good at taking out targets. Not to mention the Commissars are just cool.
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Apr 21, 2014 20:52
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Poil posted:In other words, flashlights doesn't really accomplish much. Suck you pathetic IG lovers and eat choppa to the face. One flashlight, no. But 30 flashlights firing 100 bolts a second can and will turn a squad of Boyz into so many scorched and burnt husks. Same thing with Space Marines. Sure, one lasbolt will maybe scorch the paint, but ceramite is near impervious to heat. Near being the operative word. Eventually it's still going to become just steaming, melted slag. The IG may be throwing out diddly, but it can throw out a whole LOT of diddly. And that's not even getting into how how their tanks eat all the other faction's tanks for breakfast.
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Apr 21, 2014 21:10
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Who What Now posted:And that's not even getting into how how their tanks eat all the other faction's tanks for breakfast. Carnifex' would like to have a word with you. 
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Apr 21, 2014 21:13
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Rick_Hunter posted:Carnifex' would like to have a word with you. The Shadowsword would have an answer. 
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Apr 21, 2014 21:37
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Who What Now posted:The IG may be throwing out diddly, but it can throw out a whole LOT of diddly.  stabbin Orks erryday
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Apr 21, 2014 21:59
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To put it all into perspective, that 'flashlight' is a zero-recoil hitscan weapon. It's lighter than an MP5, runs off powerpacks that you can recharge by leaving them out in the sun and has a fire rate in the hundreds. It's low maintenance, with no moving parts and barrels designed to be replaced on the fly. Even on low power, it's enough to sever limbs or punch through tank armour. It is, in every way, better than almost any non-explosive weapon we've ever invented. And yet...
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Apr 21, 2014 22:23
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Man, I unironically love all LP threads regarding Warhammer 40K. We have only seen one episode yet but we've managed to hit 5 pages already due to fluff discussion.
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Apr 21, 2014 22:47
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Tin Tim posted:That's true except for the one IG regiment that's different Excuse me, that's a very odd picture of the Armageddon Ork-Hunters.
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Apr 21, 2014 22:55
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