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Also remember that messing about with literally sacred designs could lead to Bad Stuff happening. Sure, your new lasgun is 50% less resource intensive and is as deadly as a bolter, but WHOOPS the crystal matrix you used inadvertently formed a symbol pleasing to the Warp, and your test soldiers can't get through half the magazine without growing horns and screaming praise to the Blood God. There is also the problem of necessity and production- the Imperium simply doesn't have the time to do any large-scale restructuring or change in its manufacturing capacities, since the munitions and weapons the Forge Worlds make are almost constantly in demand. Any changes would need to be done on a small scale, reducing technological development further. Any new technology would also need to be extremely versatile and easy to produce- this is why Guardsmen aren't issued bolters and power armour, for example.
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Apr 23, 2014 02:56
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CommissarMega posted:Any new technology would also need to be extremely versatile and easy to produce- this is why Guardsmen aren't issued bolters and power armour, for example. Main reason why IG doesn't use bolters and power armor is because bolters would snap a regular human's arm and the armor needs the black carapace to function, but I see your point about resource allocation - too little to go around.
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Apr 23, 2014 03:14
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Rick_Hunter posted:Main reason why IG doesn't use bolters and power armor is because bolters would snap a regular human's arm and the armor needs the black carapace to function, but I see your point about resource allocation - too little to go around. The Adepta Sororitas series power armor don't need black carapace. They theoretically could outfit every single guardsman with power armor but its too costly.
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Apr 23, 2014 03:44
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They could fit out guardsmen with Power Armour, but Flak Armour is cheaper. And there are human sized bolters. They have much smaller magazines and whatnot, but they're still perfectly viable weapons. Las weapons are just super reliable.
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Apr 23, 2014 04:32
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Isnt a space marine bolter pistol the same size as a man portable bolter? Also they're a beloved sidearm of the inquisition, when they're not hitting things with their swords.
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Apr 23, 2014 04:33
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yeah, Astartes bolters are bigger than 'normal' bolters. They've also got more powerful ammunition and I think less recoil reduction because the astartes don't need it. There are bolters that are usable by normal unmodded human beings they're just rare and expensive.
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Apr 23, 2014 04:36
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Uhm... are we going to be doing a multiplayer bout of this at some point? I'd assume so but still.
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Apr 23, 2014 06:24
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Calax posted:Uhm... are we going to be doing a multiplayer bout of this at some point? I'd assume so but still. We'd like to but there are some problems. First, the game's multiplayer is even MORE dead than Fall of Cybertron's was. This doesn't terribly surprise me considering how janky and weird the experience is overall, but I am unable to even find a team deathmatch match in the handful of times I tried. This would not be a problem if not for the fact that levels in this game actually mean a lot. The basic kits you have are pretty incapable and unlocks matter a great deal. This gives us an even bigger problem because the co-op mode, Exterminatus, is very obviously balanced toward having 4 people who are near max level. In the best of times, maxing out your levels took a few dozen hours of play. So, running pickup games isn't really a solution to the problem. It was in Fall of Cybertron, but FoC started you out with generally the best stuff and let you unlock basically everything except the most niche items in like an hour or two of play. This is a problem for competitive MP because one person who's level 41 and knows the game reasonably well will absolutely poo poo on 3 level 1 players who are stuck using Chainswords and Bolters, even if they know the game just as well as the 41. This is an even BIGGER problem for Exterminatus because there's just no loving way you're viable in that mode without a minimum of level 30. I have been attempting to figure out a way to at least cheat in max level to get people most of the unlocks they'd need to play around. There are even more unlocks based on statistics that probably wouldn't be handled by this, but there are only a few of those that are very important. I have not had any luck with this yet. The cheats that I've been looking up mostly revolve around using cheat engine, but nobody's made a nice table that would let someone who's not a meganerd like me do it. Basically the situation is that I know how to do it, but the process right now is such a pain in the rear end that basically only I would be able to do it, and that doesn't solve the problem. Very frustrating. I'm half considering emailing Relic to ask them if they would be willing to lend an idea, but I think we all know that would end up in the deleted bin approximately 6 seconds after it arrived. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 07:04
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Coolguye posted:I have been attempting to figure out a way to at least cheat in max level to get people most of the unlocks they'd need to play around. There are even more unlocks based on statistics that probably wouldn't be handled by this, but there are only a few of those that are very important. I have not had any luck with this yet. The cheats that I've been looking up mostly revolve around using cheat engine, but nobody's made a nice table that would let someone who's not a meganerd like me do it. Basically the situation is that I know how to do it, but the process right now is such a pain in the rear end that basically only I would be able to do it, and that doesn't solve the problem. Very frustrating. There's not really a table or anything that I know of, but all the "unlock values" are easy enough to find and increase, since they are all stored locally. Also, unlike in FoC you can totally grind private matches by yourself to get unlocks, like experience and victory amounts. I'm half-asleep right now, but I can post a step by step thingy if you want later.
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Apr 23, 2014 07:33
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I remember back when the game first came out some goons would just set up other goons in firing lines to grind out the perks.
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Apr 23, 2014 08:56
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Coolguye posted:I'm half considering emailing Relic to ask them if they would be willing to lend an idea, but I think we all know that would end up in the deleted bin approximately 6 seconds after it arrived. This is, coincidentally, also their MO for providing support for their newly released games.
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Apr 23, 2014 08:58
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Ulvirich posted:This is, coincidentally, also their MO for providing support for their newly released games. I used to frequently stalk the Relicnews forums back when Dawn of War came out, and if there was two things I really really hated about those times was that the only thing worse than Relic rarely if ever addressing any problems with their games was when they did these "Oooh here comes a mystery" marketing things in the community and they almost always fell flat because the news was complete poo poo or the "reveal" was dragged out so long most people were either completely tired of it or hyped up to frothing madness.
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Apr 23, 2014 09:31
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MooCowlian posted:What other endgames are there? Sooner or later, the Necrons are going to stop pissing around and just atomise everyone, and unless the tyranids just stop, which they show no sign of doing, they're going to eat everyone the necrons don't get, one planet at a time. Unless there's some special civilisation hiding in the fringes we haven't yet met, the Imperium seem to be the only ones with the manpower and territory to hold much of the galaxy, and there's no way they can do that without a massive reversal of their downward spiral. Iretep posted:Tau faction are a bunch of minor races nobody cares about so they don't get an end game. Of course the Tau get an end-game, although it's more of a slow-progressing status quo than a single event. The Tau are unique in that they are the only major faction in the 40K universe that's actively developing technological advances, and at a mind-bogglingly rapid pace. Their 'end-game' is thus: they continue evolving and advancing at the absurd breakneck pace they've been on, and one day discover a means of efficient deep-space travel which ignores the Warp, and continue to develop their war technology to the point that it makes Imperium/Eldar/etc tech seem like bows and arrows vs gunpowder. That the Tau are disregarded by the other factions (because they're too focused on each other) is their insidious advantage; meanwhile, their latent potential continues to grow. If left unchecked, sooner or later the Tau will technologically outclass everyone else in the galaxy to the point that the numbers game might not matter any more.
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Apr 23, 2014 10:28
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ninotoreS posted:If left unchecked, sooner or later the Tau will technologically outclass everyone else in the galaxy to the point that the numbers game might not matter any more. The Tau campaign in Dawn of War 1: Dark Crusade touched on this if I remember correctly. They managed to reverse-engineer rather exotic weaponry from a particular faction in the conclusion reel. This ending was, of course, not canon in the Dawn of War storyline as that belonged to the Emperor's finest magpies.
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Apr 23, 2014 10:38
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I really love the blood magpies and their "Gifting" habits. It is just so amazing to watch as they literally steal their way across the galaxy.
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Apr 23, 2014 11:38
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I always wondered if the blood raven's tendency to "borrow" artifacts, is something they picked up, or if its something that comes from their thousand sons days. Also perhaps to get a wee bit more on topic: I kind of find it unfortunate that this game had such a limited Dev time, as well as resources. Because it shows, just look at the level design and you'll perhaps see that the choice of a forge-world isn't all that innocent. The repeating structures and assets could always be waved away by just saying that's how the Mechanicum does things. Witch would be convenient for relic to not have to spend so much time making the imperial world more alive and lived in. Kharn_The_Betrayer fucked around with this message at 13:04 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 12:54
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Coolguye posted:We'd like to but there are some problems. That's because people play Seize Ground or whatever the multiple point zone control mode is called. I can get into those matches fairly regularly. apostateCourier fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 12:56
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:I always wondered if the blood raven's tendency to "borrow" artifacts, is something they picked up, or if its something that comes from their thousand sons days. I always thought it was a because, as a Thousand Sons' successor chapter (probably) they were not an officially sanctioned chapter and had no way to get new gear and all of their old gear could be traced back to the Thousand Son's, so they had to steal it from other chapters to get new stuff/replace the old. The lengths they go to is pretty hilarious/awesome though e: typo Random blabber fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Apr 23, 2014 |
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Apr 23, 2014 17:52
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Random blabber posted:I always thought it was a because, as a Thousand Sons' successor chapter (probably) they were not an officially sanctioned chapter and had no way to get new gear and all of their old gear could be traced back to the Thousand Son's, so they had to steal it from other chapters to get new stuff/replace the old. The lengths they go to is pretty hilarious/awesome though They're an official chapter. There are a few other chapters that have roots to other Traitor Legions that are still loyal.
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Apr 23, 2014 18:05
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Random blabber posted:I always thought it was a because, as a Thousand Sons' successor chapter (probably) they were not an officially sanctioned chapter and had no way to get new gear and all of their old gear could be traced back to the Thousand Son's, so they had to steal it from other chapters to get new stuff/replace the old. The lengths they go to is pretty hilarious/awesome though Oh, you'll see. One day, Avitus will build his Wargear Titan. And then the galaxy is hosed.
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Apr 23, 2014 18:10
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anilEhilated posted:Oh, you'll see. One day, Avitus will build his Wargear Titan. And then the galaxy is hosed. Until he actually tries to fire the drat thing and it turns out that Catvitus is at the helm.
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Apr 23, 2014 18:14
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anilEhilated posted:Oh, you'll see. One day, Avitus will build his Wargear Titan. And then the galaxy is hosed. That'll be impressive from his grave. 
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Apr 23, 2014 18:25
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anilEhilated posted:Oh, you'll see. One day, Avitus will build his Wargear Titan. And then the galaxy is hosed. But... he's dead jim! Especially after he made Thule do this 
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Apr 23, 2014 18:27
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Brainamp posted:That'll be impressive from his grave. He lives on in the hearts of explosion enthusiasts everywhere.
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Apr 23, 2014 18:27
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Oh God-Emperor, I seriously can't tell which way the gif's outer edge is spinning and it's freaky 
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Apr 23, 2014 18:35
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CommissarMega posted:Oh God-Emperor, I seriously can't tell which way the gif's outer edge is spinning and it's freaky It really is impressive isn't it?
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Apr 23, 2014 19:17
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I did not make that... I stole it from one of the mission intros to Roboky and Cooguy's Dawn of War 2 campaign (specifically Mission 11) that can be found in the LParchive http://lparchive.org/Dawn-of-War-II/
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Apr 23, 2014 19:26
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Who What Now posted:They're an official chapter. There are a few other chapters that have roots to other Traitor Legions that are still loyal. Like, oh, the Grey Knights.
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Apr 23, 2014 19:29
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If there is one thing the Imperium is really good at, it's using Chaos to fight Chaos. And it never, ever works out for anyone. 
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Apr 23, 2014 19:45
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Who What Now posted:They're an official chapter. There are a few other chapters that have roots to other Traitor Legions that are still loyal. I kind of got the impression they snuck their way onto the roster over the millennia when the number of chapters grew to the point that it would not longer be easy to verify if the Blood Ravens were a legit chapter, and they would still have to ditch their more obviously Thousand Son gear. Of, course I could be wrong, since most of my information about this chapter is second hand. Also, do any of the other chapters actually acknowledge they are descended from traitors? I mean the entire point of the Dark Angels is that they became super secretive because some members turned traitor and the only traitor chapter I can think of is the Fulgrim-never-heard-of-him guys
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Apr 23, 2014 20:02
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Random blabber posted:I kind of got the impression they snuck their way onto the roster over the millennia when the number of chapters grew to the point that it would not longer be easy to verify if the Blood Ravens were a legit chapter, and they would still have to ditch their more obviously Thousand Son gear. Of, course I could be wrong, since most of my information about this chapter is second hand. The Blood Ravens were most likely an experiment using Thousand Sons geneseed and deliberately had their early records falsified or destroyed. The Grey Knights certainly don't acknowledge that they're descended from traitors. Because in a way they aren't. 40k-era fluff has them believe their "primarch" is the Emperor himself. The Horus Heresy books, though, show the founding of the Inquisition and the Grey Knights. Both organizations were founded by loyalist members of traitor legions and their human support staff, particularly the Death Guard.
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Apr 23, 2014 20:18
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Random blabber posted:I kind of got the impression they snuck their way onto the roster over the millennia when the number of chapters grew to the point that it would not longer be easy to verify if the Blood Ravens were a legit chapter, and they would still have to ditch their more obviously Thousand Son gear. Of, course I could be wrong, since most of my information about this chapter is second hand. Don't let 1d4chan fool you, there are a TON of chapters that have absolutely no idea who their founding chapter is. Especially when talking about chapters from the 13th or 21st found, the former of which had no chapters founded from one of the original legions, and the latter of which was a clusterfuck of such monumental proportions nearly half the new Chapters had to be eradicated or declared Excommunicatus. And there have been more foundings since then, including Chapters founded from Chapters that survived the 13th and 21st Founding. Coupled with the fact that multiple chapters might submit geneseed to a single chapter during a Founding, it's not exactly uncommon for many Chapters to have a very long and convoluted parentage. The Blood
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Apr 23, 2014 20:39
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Yeah, if the Gray Knights can still be considered loyal after slaughtering a Sorotitas convent and bathing in their blood to 'anoint themselves' the Blood Ravens at large are fine.
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Apr 23, 2014 20:41
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Speaking of Blood Ravens, I wonder why they didn't use them for this game, as they're more or less the "video game" chapter of Space Marines.
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Apr 23, 2014 20:57
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Who What Now posted:As in it would take multiple human generations (50-60 years) to travel back to Terra even with Warp Travel. Is there much consistency over the actual speed of warp travel in the fluff? I've not read too many of the BL books but from my wandering the Lexicanum far more than any adult should, and reading various bits from codexes, I can't recall reading anything much more precise than timings like "about a week," and the galactic map as I know it isn't too precise about distances either. With all the sector crossing, decade long crusades covering massive areas and tyranids simultaneously covering a sector near instantly and not having any ftl travel at all, it seems like it's the sort of thing where they just jam their fingers in their ears and go LALALALALALA. Sometimes it takes lifetimes to cross the galaxy, sometimes the ultramarines are everywhere at once. Combine that with the handwavy thing about how you end up popping out in the wrong century a lot of the time as far as I can tell it's just a case of whatever is convenient for the writer.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:03
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The Imperium of man uses the realm of chaos as a go-between for their faster than light travel. So it can be faster or slower depending on how Chaos is feeling that day and if their gellar fields are up to snuff. I think one of the Dark Heresy storyteller supplements says "Warp drives travel at the speed the plot needs them to."
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Apr 23, 2014 21:08
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Yeah, that's what I thought. I was sort of surprised by the relative preciseness of the 50-60 years comment, and was wondering if that was just because that's what makes sense or if there was any basis in the book or DoW 2 item blurb.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:10
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Bad Moon posted:Speaking of Blood Ravens, I wonder why they didn't use them for this game, as they're more or less the "video game" chapter of Space Marines. As someone said earlier, the Ultramarines are pretty much the poster boys of the Space Marines. Making them a better choice for newcomers to the universe.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:15
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MooCowlian posted:Yeah, that's what I thought. I was sort of surprised by the relative preciseness of the 50-60 years comment, and was wondering if that was just because that's what makes sense or if there was any basis in the book or DoW 2 item blurb. Also, it's entirely possible to exit the Warp before you ever began. Battlefleet Gothic recounted the tale of an Imperial cruiser that went to its death answering its own distress call. And an ork Waaagh that was stopped when the fleet found itself in the past facing their own past selves and the warboss decided to attack his past self so he could get two copies of his favorite gun.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:15
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MooCowlian posted:Is there much consistency over the actual speed of warp travel in the fluff? Yes and no, and this is actually explained. Basically, warp travel takes as long as the plot needs it to. But in a more in-depth sense, the entire galaxy works much like the ocean did during the advent of colonization in our own times. Sure, a boat could take maybe a month to cross the Atlantic if literally every single day was clear with an ultra-strong wind to get you across. But more likely it would take a few months because of weak winds, stormy waters, and just plain overcast that made it nearly impossible to navigate. And if you were really unlucky then it might take nearly a half-year to get across the ocean! Warp travel is more or less exactly like that. If the God Emperor willed it a Navigator could conceivably move from one end of the known universe to the other in a manner of weeks if not days. But that would be an actual miracle from the Golden Throne. What normal travelers rely on are known and well explored paths through the warp that are particularly calm even during the most tumescent times. This has led to the Imperium of Mankind mapping out a more or less "safe" route between systems, because they believe that actually getting people there eventually is better than everyone dying, which is a very real possibility if you go off the established routes. Long story shot: if you're playing it safe then travelling across millions of light-years still takes decades, because it involves moving across the absolute safest routes, which are often complicated and tend to double-back many, many times. Otherwise you risk the entire ship, and not many captains wish to do that, for obvious reasons.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:16
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