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Die Laughing posted:You'd think Hickman would have touched on Apocalypse, or the Celestials at least, but it seems they're being left with Remender. Hickman used Celestials in F4/FF. I don't think he'll be using them again.
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May 1, 2014 22:11
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notthegoatseguy posted:So what the flying gently caress did I just read in Uncanny Avengers? Are you talking about the Annual from this week or the ongoing?
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May 1, 2014 23:16
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So can anyone here explain what's the deal with Mapmakers and black priests? I feel like I'm missing something to their purpose other than blowing stuff up.
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May 2, 2014 04:53
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The Biggest Jerk posted:So can anyone here explain what's the deal with Mapmakers and black priests? I feel like I'm missing something to their purpose other than blowing stuff up. The Black Priests are manifestations of The Norn, presumably that earth's sorcerer supreme. He summons 2 of his potential future selves and sacrifices them to conjure the priests as a defense against his homeworld. The issue previous to this had Dr. Strange engage in a faustian pact and we have yet to see if it will be related to the priests in any way. The Mapmakers are still pretty ambiguous. We know that AIM took samples from various avengers when they were incapacitated and used them to create some sort of super adaptoids that have currently evolved past their original programming and gone on to meet the Mapmakers in no-space. Whether this is an event that has occurred multiple times in different earths to create the Mapmakers or if the original ones have some other origin story, we don't know yet. Their process: quote:Mapmakers wiki edit: I just re-read NA 16. After the Norn says his words of power, the opposing Earth gets destroyed, and his 2 "selves" seem to fade away? The masks' design are nearly identical to the Black Priests, there's probably more to the story than we've seen yet. hope and vaseline fucked around with this message at 05:59 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 05:13
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hope and vaseline posted:edit: I just re-read NA 16. After the Norn says his words of power, the opposing Earth gets destroyed, and his 2 "selves" seem to fade away? The masks' design are nearly identical to the Black Priests, there's probably more to the story than we've seen yet. I had been interpreting it as the Norn having stolen or recovered one of the Black Priest's Masks and not having one independent of them.
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May 2, 2014 16:47
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hope and vaseline posted:edit: I just re-read NA 16. After the Norn says his words of power, the opposing Earth gets destroyed, and his 2 "selves" seem to fade away? The masks' design are nearly identical to the Black Priests, there's probably more to the story than we've seen yet. It's kinda explained in issue 17. He killed two of his alternate future selves to destroy the opposing Earth.
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May 2, 2014 16:52
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Senor Candle posted:Yeah I'm not too bothered by those not lining up, since the only thing that has come over from Waid's Hulk is the armor. Have his assistants or anything ever shown up in other books? Wait, I thought the whole thing with comics consistency, even for continuity nuts, is that sometimes books take place in slightly different time periods -- like Young Avengers and Hawkeye involved the same Kate Bishop, but at different times. So the Hickman Banner and Waid Banner are the same guy, but the stories aren't happening simultaneously, was what I assumed.
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May 2, 2014 16:54
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onefish posted:Wait, I thought the whole thing with comics consistency, even for continuity nuts, is that sometimes books take place in slightly different time periods -- like Young Avengers and Hawkeye involved the same Kate Bishop, but at different times. So the Hickman Banner and Waid Banner are the same guy, but the stories aren't happening simultaneously, was what I assumed. That's the usual way of things, yeah.
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May 2, 2014 17:00
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Hickman's stuff reads so much better in batches. Just read everything post-Infinity in the 2 books, and they make a lot more sense than when I was trying to follow issue-by-issue.hope and vaseline posted:The Black Priests are manifestations of The Norn, presumably that earth's sorcerer supreme. He summons 2 of his potential future selves and sacrifices them to conjure the priests as a defense against his homeworld. The issue previous to this had Dr. Strange engage in a faustian pact and we have yet to see if it will be related to the priests in any way. This is almost certainly not true. The Not Justice League talks about having to fight the Black Priests -- presumably they would not do that if it was the Norn. The Norn does use The Words, like the Black Priests do. And the Black Priests tie heavily into the whole mythos of NA. Feels like they are related to the cause of the incursions. Also, have we heard about the Ivory King before now? Or did Hickman just drop another one on us.
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May 2, 2014 20:52
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EVGA Longoria posted:Also, have we heard about the Ivory King before now? Or did Hickman just drop another one on us. Swan has mentioned them at least once (maybe twice). I know she did in #12 of whichever acted as an epilogue to Infinity.
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May 2, 2014 20:57
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EVGA Longoria posted:Also, have we heard about the Ivory King before now? Or did Hickman just drop another one on us. 
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May 2, 2014 21:16
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EVGA Longoria posted:Hickman's stuff reads so much better in batches. Just read everything post-Infinity in the 2 books, and they make a lot more sense than when I was trying to follow issue-by-issue. Yeah, if I have one problem with Hickman's run, is that it's way too dense to read on a single issue basis. I went back to the post-Infinity stuff as well, and I'd forgotten half of everything that happened. That last issue was so loving rad though, holy poo poo
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May 2, 2014 21:26
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Swan has mentioned them at least once (maybe twice). I know she did in #12 of whichever acted as an epilogue to Infinity. All we know of the Ivory Kings thus far is that Black Swan's family are heirs to the throne of a hidden city which had a gateway into a multiversal library, the key was a gift from them. There's also a mention of the Ebony Kings; in the issue where the Illuminati are observing a Black Priest invasion, they sense them observing through the bridge, and mention if it could be the Ebony Kings observing them.
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May 2, 2014 21:53
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I do still love that the current arc in Avengers is "Bruce Banner is an incredibly smart man" while at the same time the current arc in Hulk is "Bruce Banner is literally a cliche retarded person". It's about the farthest I think I've ever seen the portrayal the same character be at one time in my memory.
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May 2, 2014 23:32
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So does Captain America think that the Bruce Banner in custody is 616 Bruce? Seems kind of harsh that he's okay with stripping him of his voice and throwing him in guantanamo.
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May 3, 2014 03:42
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Boogaleeboo posted:I do still love that the current arc in Avengers is "Bruce Banner is an incredibly smart man" while at the same time the current arc in Hulk is "Bruce Banner is literally a cliche retarded person". It's about the farthest I think I've ever seen the portrayal the same character be at one time in my memory. The current status of Wolverine is like that as well. In his own book he's been without his healing factor for months and months, done a heel turn into working for a villain, and cut ties to his former heroic life. There has been approximately zero hint of this in any of the other titles, and probably will remain that way until the Death of Wolverine mini hits. But I hands down prefer this to DC's heavy handed editorial approach. I'd rather the creators just tell the stories they want without worrying about stepping on someone else's status quo.
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May 3, 2014 04:00
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Beanpants posted:The current status of Wolverine is like that as well. In his own book he's been without his healing factor for months and months, done a heel turn into working for a villain, and cut ties to his former heroic life. There has been approximately zero hint of this in any of the other titles, and probably will remain that way until the Death of Wolverine mini hits.
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May 3, 2014 04:18
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The Marvel reader is pretty swank. I'm enjoying catching up on New Avengers and Avengers. Though I think I should get comixology to get other material outside of Marvel. It'd be great if Marvel could have an online bookstore that sells stuff from around the world. Maybe partner a bit with Amazon or something. EDIT: This whole stockpiling weapons and things to save the Earth, isn't the prison itself housing weapons of the greatest kinds? Why not throw Thanos, Terrax, and company at stuffs? All the worlds that have fallen have Earth heroes fighting incursions. Where are the cosmic entities like Thanos or Galactus? Maybe Galactus doesn't give a crap but those dudes are kinda absent. Gatts fucked around with this message at 04:54 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 04:50
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Endless Mike posted:It was referenced in Uncanny X-Men when he and Cyclops both ended up in that sentinel thing. And Wolverine and the X-Men, and Avengers, and probably every other book Wolverine has showed up in.
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May 3, 2014 07:19
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Gatts posted:The Marvel reader is pretty swank. I'm enjoying catching up on New Avengers and Avengers. Though I think I should get comixology to get other material outside of Marvel. It'd be great if Marvel could have an online bookstore that sells stuff from around the world. Maybe partner a bit with Amazon or something. I think the Illuminati is trying to keep this hush hush from cosmic entities cause the cosmic dudes will just be like "Alright, let us just get rid of the earth then. Problem solved!"
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May 3, 2014 07:59
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Yeah, letting people on Earth find out is bad enough, but if off worlders figured it out...well, imagine if the government found out that the whole nation would be obliterated if they didn't destroy a small town.
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May 3, 2014 08:11
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Good point. Though the Everything dies thing Reed says is like bluntly calling out Thanos being the Avatar of Death poo poo.
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May 3, 2014 08:19
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Hey, another stupid thought, what is this "Wheel" that Swan blabs about? I might have missed it somewhere because I didn't start early enough but it looks like what Steve and Tony have with regards to Avengers rosters is a wheel that is ever changing and conceptual, and even Terrax says something about there being no constants, everything is variable...and even Franklin says "There are no rules." Like, this is a running theme. Also will say, this Avengers team is something that is on par with the Justice League and this whole Crisis thing has been pretty awesome. Hickman's Avengers are the best I've read. Gatts fucked around with this message at 09:17 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 09:14
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Is that a question?
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May 3, 2014 09:14
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Dan Didio posted:Is that a question? Kinda in that I was wondering what is the wheel that Swan refers to, if its already been told. I'm wondering if this whole thing might even be something the Avengers themselves set into motion with something as innocent coming up with a roster that looks like a wheel that can change and be in flux. Along with the whole nothing is concrete, everything is variable and open theme. Just blabbing I suppose. EDIT: And this rogue planet thing merged with the Earth, if there's an incursion, what if they blow that up instead to survive? EDIT 2: So Swan is serving Rabum Alal, right? "He has needs greater than ours. We all serve the wheel." Well I'm going to say the wheel is the Avengers roster that is like a machine, ever changing, ever evolving. This is a stretch but either one set of Illuminati or one guy took charge of one world's Avengers roster or the wheel grew to beyond just heroes to encompass the Mapmakers and Black Priests and so forth and the machine is enacting what it is now designed to do. Part of the theme here is about everything changing, no rules, and being in flux and time fuckery. AIM created the Adaptoids that became the Mapmakers. The Black Priests are Doc Strange's thing after he's sold his soul to protect his world and it somehow came back to bite him in the rear end. It was said the Priests are defending their worlds. The Adaptoids go out and map more, exploring, scientific like what Scientist Supreme and AIM is after. Sorcerer Supreme, Scientist Supreme (Pym?). What else is there? Have we been introduced to other parties and can we guess who they apply to in the current time? Because the Map Makers and Priests are in the future. The bullet planetoid sent to destroy Earth will be from the future...to prevent the Illuminati or Avengers from doing whatever it is they do that spirals out of control, the weapons they're building, etc. Rabum Alal is in the future somewhere or out of time or something. He's separated himself. I hope that name also isn't some kind of anagram or something. Like if the multiverse is being destroyed...then what would happen if Thanos came into power and took control of the weapons and tools like the Mapmakers and used the wheel concept, he who craves and embodies Death and now is imprisoned amongst other universal horrors? Terrax just set up that the prison cannot hold them, ultimately they will break free and there will be a reckoning. Like, a dark Avengers wheel. Just some train of thought, however stupid. Comedy option, this is all a game and test of survival from Arcade. hope and vaseline posted:All we know of the Ivory Kings thus far is that Black Swan's family are heirs to the throne of a hidden city which had a gateway into a multiversal library, the key was a gift from them. There's also a mention of the Ebony Kings; in the issue where the Illuminati are observing a Black Priest invasion, they sense them observing through the bridge, and mention if it could be the Ebony Kings observing them. EDIT 3: OOH OOOH! Ebony Kings and Ivory Kings! We just had an issue where Namor and T'Challa watched the Justice League world together and the question was posed "In how many worlds are you king, T'Challa?" and his response was "Namor, do you want to know in how many worlds you are not?" So like, these dudes are Kings right? They'll do whatever to protect their kingdoms. Black Bolt is a King too. Gatts fucked around with this message at 10:43 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 09:19
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Gatts posted:Rabum Alal is in the future somewhere or out of time or something. He's separated himself. I hope that name also isn't some kind of anagram or something. I read somewhere that it's Sumerian for "The Great Destroyer"
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May 3, 2014 12:15
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Gatts posted:EDIT 3: OOH OOOH! Ebony Kings and Ivory Kings! We just had an issue where Namor and T'Challa watched the Justice League world together and the question was posed "In how many worlds are you king, T'Challa?" and his response was "Namor, do you want to know in how many worlds you are not?" So like, these dudes are Kings right? They'll do whatever to protect their kingdoms. Black Bolt is a King too. That really has me thinking. With all the reveals, isn't it reasonable to think all the villains (Mapmakers/Ivory King/Ebony King/Black Priests) are actually some of the Illuminati from other worlds? There's now an obvious link between the Black Priests and Dr. Strange, plus it's pretty obvious someone is leading the Mapmakers (Reed/Tony?) If we're thinking that the Ebony and Ivory Kings could be Black Panther/Namor, that's literally everyone except Rabum Alal.
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May 3, 2014 13:11
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If we're going out on a limb with the Apocalypse/evolution/survival of the multiversal fittest game here, Beast has some history with dealing with the "no more mutants" problem (even going through alternate earths to look for explanations), Dark Beast is pretty much an insane genetic tinkerer, and Sublime even used Beast's body in an alternate timeline. It's kind of odd how right now everyone in the Illuminati has some kind of personal drama going on except for Beast.
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May 3, 2014 14:04
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Leper Residue posted:I think the Illuminati is trying to keep this hush hush from cosmic entities cause the cosmic dudes will just be like "Alright, let us just get rid of the earth then. Problem solved!" We already saw a Galaktus deal with an Earth because of an incursion. And the entirety of Infinity/Builders was because they wanted to destroy Earth due to the incursions. I don't think the current factions shown have any ties to 616's Illuminati. The Norn clearly has ties to the Black Priests but I don't think he's THE Black Priests. Unless Dr. Strange's Godhood is via the words of power the priests/norn use. That could be an interesting angle. Strange gave all of his souls. Maybe Norn gave 20-40% which is why he also needs to sacrifice his future possibilities? What does that make of the black priests themselves? The Mapmakers are AI and AIM showed a variation of their creation which makes me think they don't have a true maker or leader. They're a collective that "mine" Earths in order to grow in strength. They still have a possible link to 616 Earth via the chunk of dead Earth Doom has in Latveria. Ivory/Ebony kings we know too little to make any good guesses though the Ivory gift to the swans makes the think they're more than just another faction. I think the most important thing is we now have a deadline: May '15. So a year's worth to deal with all of this means things should be speeding up and not slowing down pretty soon. The Avengers (and maybe the world?) will be discovering the illuminati soon enough and then they'll be fighting a war on two sides. Black Bolt / Maximus are "dead" so it'll be interesting to see how the Inhimans react to that. Thanos and crew seem to be alive and making a possible comeback? Seriously, there is SO MUCH to look forward to. Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 15:14 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 14:57
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Gatts posted:Hey, another stupid thought, what is this "Wheel" that Swan blabs about? I think it's talking about the team of Avengers. I think way back in issue 1 you see Tony talking to Steve about the roster, and you see the same wheel that you saw in the first page of the Avengers books for a while. So it's referencing the team he put together. Bruce brought it up this most recent issue and said it was his way of distracting and deploying the other heroes while they dealt with the incursions, rather than just getting "bigger". EDIT: From Avengers #1:   
IUG fucked around with this message at 15:20 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 15:02
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Going off of that. We just had an issue where the Scientist Supreme killed some dude from Harvard for failure yet made it such that when AIM went out, they grabbed the Avengers from the alternate world and left ours unhurt "No killing right now. Clean up." Why can't that dude be a current member of the Illuminati/avengers using AIM's resources for some purpose? Everyone on the Illuminati is represented by the 4 big bads referenced by Swan in terms of type. Like if you've got this whole alternate universe killing thing going on, wouldn't one of them go "Hm. Let's send some Avengers/Robots out to the alternate worlds to see what the gently caress is going on? We can't do it, mebby robots/adaptoids?" and then it spiraled out of control. The Illuminati is made of Reed, Tony, Beast, Banner, Black Bolt, Black Panther, Namor, Doctor Strange. Cap was once. Sorcerer Supreme and the Black Priests: This one is Doc Strange easy. He's the magic. Scientist Supreme and the Map Makers: Reed or Tony or Beast or Banner. Out of those who has the questionable morals to act the way he did? Reed right? I don't think its Banner though he did say Tony's been using the others designs too and Tony's the one who is also a builder/engineer. The dude is pretty tall in drawing and acts kind of civil, so Beast might be an option. I'm going to say this is Beast, he's the Science. Ebony King and Ivory King: Black Bolt or Black Panther or Namor. Namor has some kind of code and was the jerk who kept pointing the Illuminati's poo poo out and Black Panther first rejected the Illuminati seeing it for what it was so it is tough to say even though they could do whatever to protect their Kingdoms. I think one of these is Black Bolt who has a reputation of doing dirty poo poo for the greater cause and his whole thing is being a King and leader doing things he may personally not want to. The other is Namor who also is willing to go dirty, like with Infinity and pointing Thanos to Wakanda. They're the Kings, I don't think this is actually the Panther. We also did have the Builders who were Celestial like in that they chose what direction to take a world's species. Genetic and evolution stuff. That kinda ties into Beast and mutants. Like, the things the Avengers have faced are kinds of reflections or aspects of themselves. So like you say it could very well be one world's Apocalypse. It'd also tie into Hickman's SHIELD as was pointed out earlier in the thread since he helped form the first Avengers and fought off the Brood invasion though funny enough that was to protect Earth and now its survival of the fittest. The dude has been there from the beginning. He is Rabum Alal the destroyer, the apocalypse. Thanos is the hand of death and Swan is a nihilist. It'd be kind of unexpected but it wouldn't be surprising. EDIT: Each world had an Illuminati and Avengers right? What if this whole game was orchestrated by a world where Apocalypse, a first Avenger, was an Illuminati member and founder. EDIT 2: AND if the theme of New Avengers is death and Avengers is life then is it not fitting that is expressed in survival of the fittest to live on as other things die? Apocalypse or something like him is def. The candidate. I also wonder where Franklin is in all this though we have seen him. Or Kang and Reeds father. EDIT 3: Oh poo poo son, that ending to New Avengers. After the usual superhero fight, hopefully we'll see what the "heroes" are made of but I'm wishing for team up to save everything. I wish this was a DC/Marvel event. Gatts fucked around with this message at 19:26 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 15:12
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hope and vaseline posted:It's kind of odd how right now everyone in the Illuminati has some kind of personal drama going on except for Beast. A recent X-book was literally just the Watcher chewing Hank out the whole issue while he writhed around and anguished about it.
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May 3, 2014 15:32
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Gatts posted:Rabum Alal is in the future somewhere or out of time or something. He's separated himself. I hope that name also isn't some kind of anagram or something. Rabum Alal = "Rum Ball, AA". After alternate-universe Tony kills all the other Illuminati at a Christmas party gone horribly wrong, he recommits himself to sobriety and the defense of his earth.
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May 3, 2014 22:07
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Anyone have a good clear art piece of Hickman's Avengers or Illuminati as a full team/roster? I'm having a hard time finding one and I was kinda hoping there'd be a Francis Yu or Copiel or Cheung or Immonen piece.
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May 4, 2014 08:05
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Gatts posted:Anyone have a good clear art piece of Hickman's Avengers or Illuminati as a full team/roster? I'm having a hard time finding one and I was kinda hoping there'd be a Francis Yu or Copiel or Cheung or Immonen piece.  for the Avengers roster (though it's still missing a bunch of people).There was a good Illuminati one by Rags Morales on the last page of NA 17.
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May 4, 2014 12:09
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Gatts posted:Anyone have a good clear art piece of Hickman's Avengers or Illuminati as a full team/roster? I'm having a hard time finding one and I was kinda hoping there'd be a Francis Yu or Copiel or Cheung or Immonen piece. edit: 
redbackground fucked around with this message at 18:50 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 15:18
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If you look at the graphic with all the members in the beginning of each issue of Avengers, it lists all the different characters.
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May 4, 2014 15:22
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Thanks! EDIT: Black Swan also said "What if it had been the Sinnu Sarrum?" along with Ivory Kings. Man, this poo poo is awesome. I bought the Infinity complete collection and it is great. Gatts fucked around with this message at 02:47 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 16:44
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coconono posted:Going from Thanos to Apocalypse....hrrrm It worked for Capcom!
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May 5, 2014 12:37
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Gatts posted:Thanks! That just means Ivory Kings. I'm sad it's only got a year left but honestly it slowed down a bit and if that's gonna kick it back into gear I'm all in. I wonder how they'll handle having Spencer finish his stories.
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