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It's actually sort of possible to do this in any state, right now. You're given a special enrollment period in ACA if you move to a new state, so a poor-but-mobile person could stay uninsured, and just move and enroll if they have health problems.
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Apr 26, 2014 22:29
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There will be an exclusion period, probably 6-12 months. A lot of the details are still being worked out because the state was required to set up a PPACA exchange and picked the same vendor that was used for healthcare.gov, so they've been working on getting that working. But there's another reason that people won't flood into the state to mooch off out sweet, sweet socialism: it requires moving to Vermont. And for anyone in mind to get down with some mooching, that probably also means having a chance at getting housing and a job in Vermont, which is non-trivial. We had this same conversation back in the day when VT was the first state to allow civil unions. The "Take Vermont Back" crowd argued that the state would become a "Gay Mecca" (which was a hilarious oxymoron itself) and they gays would flood in and gay up all the farms. They'd probably make us rename the state's iconic product "gayple syrup" or something! Needless to say, this did not happen, despite the economic and social benefits it offered people who wanted civil unions and later marriages.
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Apr 26, 2014 22:40
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Joementum posted:There will be an exclusion period, probably 6-12 months. A lot of the details are still being worked out because the state was required to set up a PPACA exchange and picked the same vendor that was used for healthcare.gov, so they've been working on getting that working. Gay marriage isn't the same as 40,000 a month cancer treatments.
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Apr 26, 2014 22:50
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Fat Ogre posted:Gay marriage isn't the same as 40,000 a month cancer treatments. What if it's colon cancer?
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Apr 26, 2014 22:55
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http://www.wcax.com/story/25395497/vt-lawmakers-push-for-deadline-on-single-payer-financing-plan The legislature wants details on the single payer financing plan ASAP. Governor says he'll have them by next year. Unrelated, but Gov. Shumlin has a big nose.
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May 1, 2014 02:02
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Shumlin also nearly died last year because he decided to run out of his house naked and chase a bear that was eating from his bird feeder through his backyard.
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May 1, 2014 02:03
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Joementum posted:Shumlin also nearly died last year because he decided to run out of his house naked and chase a bear that was eating from his bird feeder through his backyard. Stuff like this is why I plan on moving to Vermont.
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May 1, 2014 03:09
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Joementum posted:Shumlin also nearly died last year because he decided to run out of his house naked and chase a bear that was eating from his bird feeder through his backyard. Vermont: Basically a Canadian colony
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May 1, 2014 05:33
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Biff Rockgroin posted:Stuff like this is why I plan on moving to Vermont. That was quite the episode, but regardless of the many benefits of moving to Vermont I'd mention as of my last conversation with my parents some places still have non-trivial amounts of snow on the ground, and growing up May snows, while not common, were not unheard of. sitchensis posted:Vermont: Basically a Canadian colony Canadian maple syrup isn't graded at nearly at the high standards set by VT syrup, theory disproved. 
Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 05:40 on May 1, 2014 |
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May 1, 2014 05:36
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Also, surprisingly Maple Syrup Urine Disease doesn't make your urine taste like actual maple syrup no matter how much it smells like it.
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May 1, 2014 06:16
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Lote posted:Also, surprisingly Maple Syrup Urine Disease doesn't make your urine taste like actual maple syrup no matter how much it smells like it. Remind me to never have pancakes at your place.
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May 1, 2014 14:20
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It is illegal in Vermont for a company to sell a product with "maple" in its name unless it contains real maple. If you go to a McDonalds in Vermont and order the Fruit & Maple Oatmeal breakfast you can ask for a side of real maple syrup and they have to give it to you, thanks to a case that went to the Vermont Supreme Court.
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May 1, 2014 14:24
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sitchensis posted:Vermont: Basically a Canadian colony There was one time in 1796 where a vermont senator named Ira Allen conspired with France to get a shipload of weapons into vermont where he would then smuggle them into Canada for the support of a 1797 French invasion of Canada. Allen proposed that then Vermont would rise up and join Canada in forming a new republic called United Columbia. However, the weapons ship (named Olive Branch) got intercepted by the British so the French cancelled their invasion.
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May 1, 2014 22:24
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Joementum posted:It is illegal in Vermont for a company to sell a product with "maple" in its name unless it contains real maple. They take their maple syrup seriously
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May 1, 2014 23:37
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From working in MA I Can tell you they think they are about a decade away from a single payer system. There is a push from the more liberal parts of the state to move forward.
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May 1, 2014 23:44
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Joementum posted:It is illegal in Vermont for a company to sell a product with "maple" in its name unless it contains real maple. Well now I want to go to Vermont.
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May 2, 2014 00:40
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Dr Pepper posted:Well now I want to go to Vermont. I'd do it sooner rather than later; this year's syruping season was from all I've heard very brief due to the weather, so supplies are likely to be on the short side. Makes me glad I've got a gallon of Grade-A Dark Amber in the freezer already.
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May 2, 2014 00:45
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Mooseontheloose posted:From working in MA I Can tell you they think they are about a decade away from a single payer system. There is a push from the more liberal parts of the state to move forward. Well the have lots of hoops to jump through such as the hard to meet criteria on how the plan must be budget neutral to the federal government.
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May 2, 2014 02:11
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Fat Ogre posted:How does this keep people with horribly expensive diseases from just moving to Vermont when diagnosed and sticking the state government with the bill? It's already possible to move to Vermont or Massachusetts, obtain VHAP or Masshealth, and do the same. If this were a potential problem, why is it not already? The only thing I can think of as a comeback to this is that potential single payer moocher may want to work, and make enough money to not qualify for VHAP anymore - except in my experience it's pretty hard to find work outside of the Burlington metro, and if you can find it there it's pretty hard to find a place to live. If large amounts of people got in on this scam, you wouldn't be able to rent anywhere. It's just not as easy as you're making it out to be. gagelion fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 2, 2014 |
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May 2, 2014 03:22
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Why is it a bad thing if a state like Illinois attracted lots of people because of programs like single payer? As long as they're actually living and working there and not just abusing some sort of residency loophole, wouldn't that actually be a good thing? It would attract economic activity to that state. AFAIK Europe has the same problem, with people moving to the Netherlands for free university and then moving back, and it's not some crippling issue there. It is an issue but it's entirely possible to deal with.
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May 3, 2014 05:35
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I got a medical bill today and went on a rant about how the american system is ridiculous, i was told in response a story of a friend of a friend in canada who had a broken arm in montreal and had to wait "24 hours" or so to receve any kind of car, apparently not getting even painkillers while he waited. Is this actually something that happens there with any regularity? I love the idea of socialized medicine and something that ridiculous actually happening breaks my heart. Thank you for the clarification.
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May 3, 2014 21:45
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I got a medical bill today and went on a rant about how the american system is ridiculous, i was told in response a story of a friend of a friend in canada who had a broken arm in montreal and had to wait "24 hours" or so to receve any kind of car, apparently not getting even painkillers while he waited. Is this actually something that happens there with any regularity? I love the idea of socialized medicine and something that ridiculous actually happening breaks my heart. Thank you for the clarification. The "I had to wait [UNREASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME] for treatment!" story is as old as nationalized health care, and while it may be accurate in this or that individual case, it's largely just a canard used to cast doubt on systems in which, you know, that person did actually receive care eventually, whereas they may not have (and certainly not as affordably) done so in the American system.
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May 3, 2014 21:50
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I got a medical bill today and went on a rant about how the american system is ridiculous, i was told in response a story of a friend of a friend in canada who had a broken arm in montreal and had to wait "24 hours" or so to receve any kind of car, apparently not getting even painkillers while he waited. Is this actually something that happens there with any regularity? I love the idea of socialized medicine and something that ridiculous actually happening breaks my heart. Thank you for the clarification. poo poo happens here too, except people "choose" not to go because they can't afford it: (Emphasis mine) quote:ACL surgery in San Francisco, USA: 
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May 3, 2014 22:02
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I got a medical bill today and went on a rant about how the american system is ridiculous, i was told in response a story of a friend of a friend in canada who had a broken arm in montreal and had to wait "24 hours" or so to receve any kind of car, apparently not getting even painkillers while he waited. Is this actually something that happens there with any regularity? I love the idea of socialized medicine and something that ridiculous actually happening breaks my heart. Thank you for the clarification. If he went to see a doctor at a walk-in or his GP late in the day, then he still might wait a day between that visit and having his cast done, because his doctor's going to say, "yep, could be broken" and send him to an imaging clinic that will do the X-ray. X-ray in hand confirming a fracture, he'll head back to his doctor to get the cast done, but that might need to wait 'til the next day simply because doctors are busy and casts take time. But he'd also spend most of that time at home, where he could take his own Tylenol no problem. That's how it went with my broken arm. lonelywurm fucked around with this message at 22:18 on May 3, 2014 |
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May 3, 2014 22:16
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lonelywurm posted:None of us can comment on the situation without knowing more. How bad was the break? Because if he had just a simple fracture and went to a major city hospital, then maybe. Simple fact is, "my arm hurts" is bottom priority in the ER, and he's going to keep getting shunted back every time a more serious case comes in - and hospitals in Montréal will have the same pressures as a hospital in any major city; maybe even more that day. It's hard to say what impact a sudden bout of flu among staff or unusually busy day for car crashes might have on wait times on a single day. Single-payer healthcare isn't a panacea for limited resources, it just means you don't tend to go bankrupt trying to access them. From what I can find online (for example) the average visit to a Canadian emergency room takes four hours (that's including treatment time, I think), which is apparently pretty awful by international standards but is obviously quite a bit less than 24 hours. It doesn't seem it's to do with socialized medicine, either, since that article goes on to name the UK as one of the countries where emergency room visits are quickly handled.
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May 3, 2014 23:02
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Going to an ER in any major city without something immediately life-threatening is going to take hours unless you're lucky. A coworker of mine broke his foot a couple years back and waited ~8 hours before someone else waiting in the ER suggested he just go over to the neighborhood urgent care clinic. They took care of it in an hour. Another anecdote, for the hell of it: A friend of mine went skiing once with a Canadian friend of his in the northwest US. My friend managed to hurt his head on the slopes but it wasn't anywhere near painful enough that he thought it was worth getting checked out. His friend *insisted* on driving him to the ER anyway, because you never know what a head injury might do (ignoring certain practical considerations, this is a smart move). The ER did whatever tests they felt needed doing, pronounced my friend fine, and then handed him a bill for $800. *That* was the moment the Canadian guy finally realized why my friend was so reluctant to go to the ER - it hadn't once occurred to him that it would cost anything at all, much less more than their entire ski outing. He was so abashed he paid for my friend's bill himself.
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May 4, 2014 00:10
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TL;DR: gently caress the American health care system. All the more reason for Vermont to proceed forward with their plan.
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May 4, 2014 05:19
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Choadmaster posted:Going to an ER in any major city without something immediately life-threatening is going to take hours unless you're lucky. Yup. I broke my wrist when I was in 5th grade and the ER took near 5 hours to finally see someone and get a cast put on. On a plus side though in the waiting room I got to see Mark McGwire break some kind of season home run record or something.
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May 4, 2014 07:03
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Amused to Death posted:On a plus side though in the waiting room I got to see Mark McGwire break some kind of season home run record or something. At least the private health care system worked for him; it shows if you have enough money you can do whatever you want including become a freakish superhulk creature with arm muscles the size of a racehorse thigh.
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May 4, 2014 07:29
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man I wish my MRIs only cost $250, got the bill for the MRI I had taken for my back and it was $1300, not covered at all until I hit my deductible. Turns out I didn't even really need it, or the epidural injection I got in my T7/T8, just pain management doctors getting kickback referrals from my PCP in the same hospital network. At least the needle didn't slip and paralyze me for life or anything! e: I had to wait about 3 and a half weeks for my useless outpatient procedure too, give me the loving socialized healthcare any day, maybe I would have been able to get my back checked out 10 years ago when the damage wasn't so severe.
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May 4, 2014 19:33
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Choadmaster posted:Another anecdote, for the hell of it: A friend of mine went skiing once with a Canadian friend of his in the northwest US. My friend managed to hurt his head on the slopes but it wasn't anywhere near painful enough that he thought it was worth getting checked out. His friend *insisted* on driving him to the ER anyway, because you never know what a head injury might do (ignoring certain practical considerations, this is a smart move). The ER did whatever tests they felt needed doing, pronounced my friend fine, and then handed him a bill for $800. *That* was the moment the Canadian guy finally realized why my friend was so reluctant to go to the ER - it hadn't once occurred to him that it would cost anything at all, much less more than their entire ski outing. He was so abashed he paid for my friend's bill himself. 
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May 4, 2014 19:35
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Fat Ogre posted:Maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't go Skiing if you don't have insurance. Yeah, the real takeaway from that story is definitely that people are irresponsible for getting hurt in a country without public healthcare.
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May 4, 2014 20:15
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Fat Ogre posted:Maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't go Skiing if you don't have insurance. You misunderstand--that was with insurance. I went to the ER in November for a constant chest pain that hurt when I breathed. It turned out to be like a stress problem, not a treatable thing. The bill for that? Over 2000 dollars, AFTER my dad's insurance. poo poo sucks here.
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May 4, 2014 20:19
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Fat Ogre posted:Maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't go Skiing if you don't have insurance. I legitimately cannot comprehend the mindset that would have this as a first reaction to that post.
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May 4, 2014 20:27
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Kaal posted:Yeah, the real takeaway from that story is definitely that people are irresponsible for getting hurt in a country without public healthcare. Ytlaya posted:I legitimately cannot comprehend the mindset that would have this as a first reaction to that post. It isn't like people don't understand healthcare is expensive in this country. Which is why it sounds absolutely loving insane to me to go skiing and risk breaking a bone, injuring a limb of some sort or a head injury which happen while skiing quite often. The first thing they think after getting slapped with a 20-30k bill is "poo poo this is so expensive I wish I hadn't gone and done that." See also people that ride mountain bikes, surf, skateboard, etc. It isn't like I'm being callus to someone who got sick or got cancer. This is someone who got into a dangerous situation, got injured and then is annoyed they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. I agree our medical system is hosed but people taking risks for no reason doesn't help. Fat Ogre fucked around with this message at 21:13 on May 4, 2014 |
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May 4, 2014 21:05
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Redeye Flight posted:You misunderstand--that was with insurance. I went to the ER in November for a constant chest pain that hurt when I breathed. It turned out to be like a stress problem, not a treatable thing. The bill for that? Over 2000 dollars, AFTER my dad's insurance. I agree the prices are hosed but 800 after insurance and they didn't do anything? Really? Was he paying his deductible? I've had insurance from different places for years and I've yet to see a simple 800 bill from an emergency room ever. Even with a wife and three kids.
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May 4, 2014 21:09
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Fat Ogre posted:It isn't like people don't understand healthcare is expensive in this country. Fat Ogre, you're saying that people who play sports are taking unnecessary risks and it's somehow their fault our medical system is terrible. This is like the textbook definition of Just World fallacy. People should be able to go mountain biking or skiing without fearing bankruptcy. When they live sedentary lives, become obese and develop heart problems, are you going to be chiding them for NOT getting enough outdoor exercise?
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May 4, 2014 21:38
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more friedman units posted:Fat Ogre, you're saying that people who play sports are taking unnecessary risks and it's somehow their fault our medical system is terrible. This is like the textbook definition of Just World fallacy. People should be able to go mountain biking or skiing without fearing bankruptcy. When they live sedentary lives, become obese and develop heart problems, are you going to be chiding them for NOT getting enough outdoor exercise? Not at all. You can get exercise without risking smashing your body into a tree, curb or the ground at high speeds. Last time I checked stationary bike accidents were far less serious than a mountain bike accident into a tree or on concrete. This isn't an either or situation. If I told you about someone who drove a car without insurance and then hit another car and caused thousands of dollars of damages and then was all upset about how expensive it is to not have insurance would your feeling still be the same?
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May 4, 2014 21:45
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Fat Ogre posted:Which is why it sounds absolutely loving insane to me to go skiing and risk breaking a bone, injuring a limb of some sort or a head injury which happen while skiing quite often. The first thing they think after getting slapped with a 20-30k bill is "poo poo this is so expensive I wish I hadn't gone and done that." See also people that ride mountain bikes, surf, skateboard, etc. I agree this is why I never leave my house.
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May 4, 2014 21:46
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If you go outside your house, there's a risk you might come to harm. Why would anyone take the risk of going outside?! People who choose to go outside are to blame if they get mugged, hit by a car whatever. It's their own stupid fault for leaving their basements.
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May 4, 2014 21:49
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