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WickedHate posted:Most people are fine with The Dark Knight Rises basically doing the exact same thing. Like another poster said, a lot of people actually did have a problem with that.
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May 6, 2014 18:31
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WickedHate posted:There are multiple magio high schools, the one in the show is the First. Doesn't change the fact that this is the most elite and important one with the best students. So teachers should be prioritized to this one over the others. It doesn't make sense to give third tier students (say, the "blooms" of the second magic high school) better treatment than the second tier students (course 2 students at the first high school) when resources are so scarce. The setting as written doesn't make sense. It would have been a much more coherent setting if blanche were a cult and were popular amongst families with weak magic. Add enough variability to magic inheritance that weak families can occasionally produce children with much greater magic potential and then you have students with high magic potential, who are discriminated against for their family backgrounds, and came from a family who buys into the cult. All the motivation you need, without requiring to that the bad guys don't believe in their own ideology or that the spokespeople for it be morons. Of course, making it so "inferior" families can sometimes produce "superior" children would go against the show's love for elitism, so we can't have that. Serious Frolicking posted:I'm pretty sure that's Gunbuster backstory. It certainly isn't from this series. Well poo poo, I guess it is. I must have misread someone's post somewhere and gotten confused. Desuwa fucked around with this message at 21:11 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 18:41
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This title started out on one of those free-to-publish web novel sites, so the author probably never had anyone to rein him in. No idea how much force the publishing house editors could put on him when he already had a massive pre-existing fanbase. Strange times.
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May 6, 2014 18:46
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As a cult they'd still be a bit silly, but at least you could conceivably have some sort of downside to their cause, and that alone could go a long way. As is, what we have is basically an argument presented like this: 
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May 6, 2014 18:47
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The lack of teachers is dumb to begin with. There have been magicians for generations, and they have been militarized for at least the last 20 years or so. So, why are there no incentives for graduates of magic college to become teachers? If magicians have limited freedom to choose their own professions, why the hell doesn't that extend to teaching as well? Wouldn't a lot of those course 2 students make perfectly good teachers after college even if their practical skills were second-rate? There are 8 magic high schools in Japan, I believe. Why have so many schools if there aren't enough teachers to go around? The answer of course is that Satou is very, very obvious about his grudges. Whatever his problem with teachers is, it was probably his fault. Oh, and the oh-so-benevolent reforms from the student council president? Exactly which course 2 student do you think they recruit to the student council? Srice posted:Yeah, and the author wrote her as a naive idiot just because she wanted to change the system. She doesn't have to be dumb, but the author made it so because, again, the author's beliefs are such that he can only pit them against idiots and literal terrorists instead of letting a legitimate debate happen. It is worse than that, actually. She has literally been mind controlled into believing in the cause. There are no sympathetic characters who ever espouse views contrary to the right-wing wankfest. gimme the GOD DAMN candy fucked around with this message at 19:06 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 19:02
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Serious Frolicking posted:Oh, and the oh-so-benevolent reforms from the student council president? Exactly which course 2 student do you think they recruit to the student council? ...gently caress. This loving show goddamnit.
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May 6, 2014 19:10
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Serious Frolicking posted:It is worse than that, actually. She has literally been mind controlled into believing in the cause. There are no sympathetic characters who ever espouse views contrary to the right-wing wankfest. Ahahahahahahahahaha holy poo poo that is so retarded. And yet, oddly enough, that still doesn't make the terrorist cause unsympathetic. I mean, the protagonist might as well be doing the same considering how people react to him after a disagreement, haha. I've already been feeling that this is literally the worst anime I have ever seen (not just because of the deplorable morality, but also in how *dull* the directing/writing has been), but it's impressive in how it keeps managing to dig even farther down. I'm insanely glad that I have Jojo/Mushishi/Ping Pong this season to have some excellence to balance out the terrible, smh at anyone watching this that doesn't watch those 3 shows  Also I do like how the "reforms" are literally just that and also telling people to stop using slurs (in public). Gosh, if only they just outlawed white people using the N-word during the Civil Rights Movement, then they wouldn't have to do pesky things like desegregation, because racism would be over. Srice fucked around with this message at 19:18 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 19:13
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I'm sure there are worse anime out there - I'm not exactly going to go looking for them - but of the anime I've watched this is certainly in my top 2 or 3 worst shows. I knew this was going to be a stupid gary stu story going into it, but I didn't know it was going to be this lifeless about it. I wanted a dumb power fantasy and, while that does describe this show, it's just too mean-spirited, dull, and stupid about it, along with all the other problems we've been laying out in this thread. I honestly lack good things to say about this except maybe that it looks pretty. I can't recommend it to anyone, except maybe as something they have to see for themselves because otherwise they won't believe me.
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May 6, 2014 19:28
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Apparently this anime is really popular in China. People are watching it and loving how awful it is and how their nation is portrayed as almost comically evil. So there's that.
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May 6, 2014 19:31
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I think even saying that it looks pretty isn't a good point because over the past few years a lot of animation studios really stepped up their game and have been constantly outdoing themselves. There are a ton of shows each season that look a lot nicer, and have more action instead of nonstop talking heads with maybe half a minute of action in a given episode. The talky scenes are directed in a really dull way, and when the bulk of the show relies on that...
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May 6, 2014 19:32
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Srice posted:(Real talk you should legit respond to Tarranon's post about Card up there, I think he said what I'm trying to say in a better way) That's what I was meaning to reply to with The Dark Knight Rises comparison, which before now I'd not heard many criticisms of on that issue(my own fault).
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May 6, 2014 19:42
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darkgray posted:This title started out on one of those free-to-publish web novel sites, so the author probably never had anyone to rein him in. No idea how much force the publishing house editors could put on him when he already had a massive pre-existing fanbase. Strange times. Well, it's never too late to start. Didn't SAO got a remake of sorts for the first arc?
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May 6, 2014 19:51
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WickedHate posted:That's what I was meaning to reply to with The Dark Knight Rises comparison, which before now I'd not heard many criticisms of on that issue(my own fault). sometimes a work can have a one off thing like that, that can be excused as characterization and good sense being sacrificed to move the plot along when it's something like this dumb show tho it's impossible to just excuse it as only bad writing i also can't believe all these spoilers people are throwing about. so, so far everyone that has opposed the protagonist in any way, shape or form has been either a criminal or literally mind controlled. it's really amazing to me that some main character can outpunk valverave's haruto, who i was sure would live to be the worst protagonist of the decade, but here we are
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May 6, 2014 20:23
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I don't usually make unironic posts about analysing anime & other things, but Jesus Christ WickedHate + others. Take an issue such as "Why is it only the case that the class one students have teachers?". Now you can take the in-universe justification for it "oh there aren't enough fully trained wizards to teach all the students" and leave it at that. You've answered the question on a very superficial, in-universe level. You've taken the author's in universe justification and accepted it as the reason that the thing exists. Congratulations, you're casually absorbing the work, engaging with it on the same level as a sponge or TVTroper. Or you could engage with the work and consider exactly why it is that there aren't enough course 1 teachers. This isn't answered by looking at the reasons given to us, but the themes that the author is trying to present to us. The reason there aren't enough course 1 teachers is that it makes Tatsuya look more special because he doesn't need instruction. It's a message about elitism and discrimination that doesn't discriminate in the right way. Better posts than this one have been made about the actual reason that the author has chosen to do things this way. Remember that this isn't a documentary, these aren't real events. Everything that you are presented with is there because the author of this light novel series made the choice to put it there, and the people behind this anime chose to keep it there. For a simpler question ask yourself "why is the sister in love with the brother". The in-universe explanation is "He saved her life and she also didn't know they were related until three years ago". The actual explanation is "It means I can write a harem comedy with the sister as part of it. This will sell more books due to the creepy otaku demographic who are more likely to find my web published novel". It's not hard to think a little more critically about anims.
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May 6, 2014 21:03
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I've been answering from the author's point of view.
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May 6, 2014 22:09
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WickedHate posted:I've been answering from the author's point of view. Not enough weird screeds about boning your sister to footage of the Rape of Nanking.
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May 6, 2014 22:11
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WickedHate posted:I've been answering from the author's point of view. You've mainly been answering from the in-universe justifications. Which can be a part of the author's view, of course. But part of the author's views is also in why he writes something in a particular way, aka the stuff that Namtab elaborated on. The sister example he gave is a good, short explanation of that stuff.
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May 6, 2014 22:29
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WickedHate posted:I've been answering from the author's point of view. You're looking at what he's saying and not why. Which is my point in a single sentence.
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May 6, 2014 22:32
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And I have said that the why is possibly just to move the plot in a certain direction. It just gives the Bad guy a convenient following. Which is my interpretation of it, anyways. I don't know the author's thoughts.
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May 6, 2014 22:48
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You're still talking about the in-universe justification. The "why" that's being talked about is the stuff you have to extrapolate from the work, because it's something that is not directly explained to the viewer in most cases. You don't actually need to know the author's thoughts to analyze a work. I mean, people have been finding all sorts of far right-wing messages coming from this and I doubt they've looked up anything about the author's personal thoughts. All you really need is an argument that can be supported by the work itself. This is a very politically charged work, so it's definitely completely legit to read that sort of reasoning behind why certain things in this story are the way they are. And even if, somehow, the author's beliefs aren't far right-wing, he's doing a really lovely job at communicating that between the "gently caress poor people" and "gently caress people that want equality" messages, so that wouldn't change the interpretation either.
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May 6, 2014 23:10
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I just don't see it the same way, I guess.
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May 6, 2014 23:22
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WickedHate posted:I just don't see it the same way, I guess. You're really loving stupid and I'm not 100% convinced this isn't some really elaborate troll, so let me present this as simply as possible with another example. The baka-tsuki translation posted:The International Anti-Magic Political Organization "Blanche". This is the first (subtle) mention of China as being the villains. Ask yourself this: "Why are China the villains". There are two ways to do this: 1.) Repeat the in-universe justification, whatever it is. 2.) Think about why the author specifically chose to put China in his story and make them evil. Not the justification chosen in universe, but the factors behind the author specifically choosing china and the impression of them he wants to present to you, the reader. Bear in mind that later in the series it is specifically revealed that Tatsuya has slaughtered thousands of chinese people during the war and that this is presented as a good thing  Bonus points for advanced thinkers.The anti-magic movement had always been easily linked with criminal activity + terrorism. Why? Do not use the in universe justification, think about the message Namtab fucked around with this message at 23:39 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 23:37
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WickedHate posted:I just don't see it the same way, I guess. just a quick question, can you think of one popular tv show, movie, or book that is about an ideology? like, did you read animal farm and think it was just a fun story about a bunch of pigs going hog wild
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May 6, 2014 23:37
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im going to beat up all of you
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May 6, 2014 23:38
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^^bring it dorkTarranon posted:just a quick question, can you think of one popular tv show, movie, or book that is about an ideology? Man those pigs were really mean to the horses 
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May 6, 2014 23:41
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Tarranon posted:just a quick question, can you think of one popular tv show, movie, or book that is about an ideology? I know what allegory is, I just don't think it's in favor of discrimination. Nationalism, maybe, but we haven't got to those parts yet. The show is not without it's flaws. I just disagree with this one.
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May 6, 2014 23:51
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Tarranon posted:main character can outpunk valverave's haruto, who i was sure would live to be the worst protagonist of the decade, but here we are Haruto was a raging idiot but at least he had a moral compass. Everything turned into an Orwellian vampire nightmare after he died.
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May 6, 2014 23:52
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Namtab posted:^^bring it dork 
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May 6, 2014 23:56
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WickedHate posted:I know what allegory is, I just don't think it's in favor of discrimination. Nationalism, maybe, but we haven't got to those parts yet. The show is not without it's flaws. I just disagree with this one. Actually, the point being argued isn't actually directly about quality. Something can have a deplorable viewpoint and still be enjoyable to watch/read/whatever! (However, with certain types of views a lot of people find a strong inverse correlation there). People have been posting a lot of valid points that are heavily in favor of that interpretation. What do you think is invalid about those arguments? Or, to focus on one aspect in particular, is there anything that disproves the idea that making all the people arguing for equality evil, dumb, or mind controlled is a gigantic strawman? Srice fucked around with this message at 01:05 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 00:59
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I don't think it can be disproved, I just don't see it that way for the reasons I stated(them not actually arguing for equality or the MC against it and the possibility it's just a plot tool, plus that the actual discrimination against Course 2 students is shown to be bad multiple times).
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May 7, 2014 01:24
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WickedHate posted:I don't think it can be disproved, I just don't see it that way for the reasons I stated(them not actually arguing for equality or the MC against it and the possibility it's just a plot tool, plus that the actual discrimination against Course 2 students is shown to be bad multiple times). Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Wrong. Discrimination against Tatsuya is shown, and this is presented as bad. No discrimination against Tatsuya's classmates is ever mentioned or shown. The stuff with the kendo duel actually had nothing to do with course 1/2. It was far, far dumber than that.
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May 7, 2014 01:30
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Serious Frolicking posted:Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Wrong. Discrimination against Tatsuya is shown, and this is presented as bad. No discrimination against Tatsuya's classmates is ever mentioned or shown. The first episode has it affect Leo, Erika, and Mizuki.
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May 7, 2014 01:32
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Dick Spacious CPA posted:im going to beat up all of you if you think about it, this is really the only topic of debate worthy of comedy forum something awful dot com
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May 7, 2014 01:38
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WickedHate posted:The first episode has it affect Leo, Erika, and Mizuki. They stepped in to defend Tatsuya, as they were not yet aware that he is an invincible magic god. That scene was entirely about Tatsuya. It was dumb as hell for a bunch of random people to get so possessive of Miyuki on the first day of school. Nothing like it ever happened again. Miyuki just plain never socializes with any course 1 students aside from one girl who joins Tatsuya's harem and the student council. No one is ever shown to have a problem with this. It was all a poorly contrived excuse for Tatsuya to show off how awesome he was in spite of being discriminated against by background characters.
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May 7, 2014 01:52
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SSNeoman posted:Apparently this anime is really popular in China. People are watching it and loving how awful it is and how their nation is portrayed as almost comically evil. So there's that. Really? This anime shits all over left-wing politics so it's a bit of a surprise that this one slipped under their censorship radar. e: Namtab posted:2.) Think about why the author specifically chose to put China in his story and make them evil. Not the justification chosen in universe, but the factors behind the author specifically choosing china and the impression of them he wants to present to you, the reader. To be fair, you can't say "the author has an unreasonable, deep hatred for x country" just because they are the bad guys in the setting. China is often portrayed as an enemy in anime, in the same way that every regurgitated 21st century FPS uses Russians as the evil, airport massacring bad dudes. HiveCommander fucked around with this message at 02:24 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 02:18
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HiveCommander posted:Really? This anime shits all over left-wing politics so it's a bit of a surprise that this one slipped under their censorship radar. It's not even left-wing politics that it shits over; it shits over much more milquetoast liberal ideas like "people shouldn't be discriminated against." It doesn't really go into said discrimination being a fundamental part of their economic system.
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May 7, 2014 03:27
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This thread is definitely more entertaining than the show itself.
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May 7, 2014 03:55
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uuuummm posted:This thread is definitely more entertaining than the show itself. And it's poo poo so that says a lot about the show. trucutru fucked around with this message at 06:50 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 06:46
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uuuummm posted:This thread is definitely more entertaining than the show itself. I like how we've got people trying to explain the concept of a strawman argument, to someone who might as well be a strawman.
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May 7, 2014 10:51
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Elite posted:I like how we've got people trying to explain the concept of a strawman argument, to someone who might as well be a strawman. He is probably serious, which is really too bad. This thread was ripe for that sort of trolling.
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May 7, 2014 10:59
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