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Animation is very special: it gives people almost complete control to communicate their imaginations. However, it also requires immense skill and a tremendous amount of effort. This combination, naturally, often goes haywire, especially when people mutter the fateful words "I could do that". Welcome to my miguided animation passion projects thread! This thread is not meant to condemn people for their efforts, exactly, but primarily to highlight how much we should respect the blood and tears that go into a well-crafted animated film, as well as the value of teamwork on creative endeavors. Romeo and Juliet: Sealed with a Kiss: 2006 This is a solid starter. Romeo and Juliet: Sealed with a Kiss was completely written, animated, edited, and directed by Phil Nibbelink. This is a man who animated on The Great Mouse Detective for Disney, and was a supervising animator on Who Framed Roger Rabbit (one of the greatest triumphs in animation history). Somehow along the way, he got attached to The Magic Journey--yeah, the one with Columbus--and We're Back--yeah, the one with... god, what makes that one memorable? And yeah, my friends, it was actually downhill from there. He decided he was going to be a maverick, and out-maverick Bluth, for that matter. Yes, sometime in the late 90s, he decided to become a full-length feature animation studio... of one. If this were a feelgood story, I would tell you that he beat the system and showed everyone that the power of art and also potentially love and passion conquer all. They do not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-qOOdPMfB8 Sealed with a Kiss is a complete wreck. The sound quality is basement-esque... it was recorded in a basement, by actual children, who were largely doing improv. There are 112 hand-drawn frames, all by Nibbelink. This is an astonishing feat, considering that many of them do have some semblance of quality, only basically anything that is not the direct focus of the camera is a mess, and a lot of it in the actual "meat" of the movie is bizarrely rigged mouth animations over liquified drawings of the characters. Amazingly, he had time to practice before this--he also made Puss in Boots (non-Dreamworks of course) and Leif Ericson: The Boy Who Discovered America in exactly the same way. How we got to this point, a trilogy, is beyond me. In a way, it's incredible. Traditional animation is an amazing feat even with a team. The amount of effort is requires is shocking. And yet, when the result of the effort is this, it's just a little depressing, don't you think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJxYFWRT1Y4 Wolf: In production Wolf is... almost the opposite of Sealed with a Kiss. It's a crowdsourced attempt to make a full-length feature animated film without any paid animators at all. And its new website, wolfmovie.com? That has existed since 2005. And yet, it has never been abandoned! New animated clips are showing up on their Youtube channel all the time. At this rate, the movie may or may not finish before the heat death of the universe, but let's applaud their persistence. When Wolf began, I still wore jelly flops. quote:The staff at Wolf are all volunteer. We strive to educate those interested in animation in the hopes that they will gain valuable experience in the field. Provided they can do the work asked of them at the required talent level, and can legally sign our contract, anyone can join the staff and work on the film.  I can't tell if that's an "03" or "13". Either way, this is Janus. Our pack contains Janus, Star, Silver, Shadow, Jack, Lizzie, Indigo, and Luna. There are human characters as well. Talk about an ensemble! Here's a model sheet of one of the humans:  Here are some animation clips. You can tell that some of it is soft-rotoscoped over Lion King or footage of real wolves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4KwlS2rV8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7A_hBiLtDQ This last one was uploaded 5 years ago, and it's the closest they've come to any finished output. Lady Ice: 2010: I feel a little bad including this one, but it's just an odd story all-around. Lady Ice was a long-term animation project by Liron Pe'er, who was a dedicated Disney fan from Israel at the Bezalel Academy of Art and Design. What's odd is that she doesn't seem to be particularly fond of the golden-age or Renaissance Disney styles like most enthusiasts, but instead the "Brother Bear" era. Which is a little surprising. And jeez, is "fond" even the right word? Obsessed? You'd have to be. This film looks finished, and though not top-rate, surprisingly close except for a few bizarre choices (such as the awful bevel effect). This is more what I consider on the upper end of what's possible, but it's said that back in the day especially she was very poor at distinguishing herself from actual Disney and some people claimed she was trying to pretend to be a representative of Disney or even and employee (her name is "LPDisney", aka Liron Pe'er Disney). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrF6V8fjCdQ Unfortunately, it's a film that is really yearning for some editing, because it wavers between difficult-to-follow and irrelevantly boring. It was a Deviantart phenomenon, of course, but it seems to have already been largely forgotten. Originally it was only available on DVD, but now it is up on her Youtube site in full. The Vosgian Beast: 2011: Where do I even start on this... Okay, with this:  Diana Kennedy, a graphic novelist, is fascinated by JFK, as well as by trains, horses, and moonwives. In her alternate-universe setting, JFK is the son of Poseidon who fights George W Hitler and flies UFOs to the moon, among other things. His totems are the deer and the mighty marlin. All of these books are available on the Antique White House lulu store, if case you wanted to know how JFK came to polygamously gay-marry an elf who is also a horse. These comics are completely bizarre but also artfully-rendered and surprisingly enjoyable. However, in examining the world of Antique White House, I came across the trailer for "The Vosgian Beast", a 24-minute animation featuring her version of JFK. Diana Kennedy is a talented illustrator but not an animator, so how could this be? Well, the answer is that is is a very strange thing that maybe you should just look at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lShmx5OcBI I ordered the DVD for this film, and I'll admit it is hard to exactly explain what the experience of watching it was like. It's quite an accomplishment for one 60-something French woman, especially without the industry experience. However, it also opened with a yeowling pumpkin. I would give a toe to be able to compress the entire thing into an animated .gif, only then you'd lose the sound editing, which is really a treasure and needs to be appreciated. This was an exceptional purchase, one of the best I've ever made, because I just basked in this for a while. I still can't wrap my head around the circumstances that resulted in this being made, or even really the project taken in isolation. It is pure, condensed absurdity, making it a more interesting and enriching experience than many tryhard art films. In the end, every one of these things is more fascinating to me than, say, Thumbelina. But a lot of that comes from my interest in the field of animation. The unique, artistic fervor that drives people to become animators can also make working in a team difficult. Yet, is it worth breaking out of that system if it means you make Sealed with a Kiss? And talk about barriers to entry! Look at how long it takes folk, and how hard they must work, and for what, when they're up against a lack of professional training! All these films are remarkable, but taken as a whole they do a good job of suggesting why the industry looks the way it does today.
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Apr 26, 2014 23:55
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Every single Richard Williams project itt. Which is a huge shame really!
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Apr 27, 2014 00:09
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I had absolutely no idea Wolf was still going, I'd assumed the people involved had just given up long ago but no, apparently they're making (glacial) progress. It still looks absolutely terrible though.
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Apr 27, 2014 00:13
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Fatkraken posted:I had absolutely no idea Wolf was still going, I'd assumed the people involved had just given up long ago but no, apparently they're making (glacial) progress. It still looks absolutely terrible though. I know! It's the kind of thing you hear about in 2004, laugh at, and then remember again in 2014 all like, "Woah, I wonder what happened to--" and then it's still there.
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Apr 27, 2014 00:18
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You do occasionally get mavericks/auteurs who produce something worthwhile, though it's very rarely feature length. Voices of Distant Star is pretty cool and the original short 9 was based on is amazing. Shorts aren't features, but they're still animation and I think anything that tries to tell a full self contained story rather than just being a vignette or animation sample deserves mention Kaze: Ghost Warrior Often, you get someone who's actually pretty good at animating, or rendering, or character design, or writing, doing a one man passion project. Trouble is, they're rarely BRILLIANT at any of them, and are never good at ALL of them. So you end up with stuff like Kaze. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHw_Xr2dElw There's some alright animation in this. Some good Environment design, nice looking characters. It's rather floaty and full to the brim with bloom lighting, and the animator has a bit of trouble with hands (who doesn't, even Toy Story goes out of it's way to show hands as little as possible) but it's as good as an OK videogame cutscene from the same era (it's now 10 years old), and is quite an achievement for a single animator with $5000 in a cabin in Alaska. But god drat is it tedious to actually watch. You can search out the whole thing on youtube, and gently caress me if they don't start a 22 minute film with a 2 minute monologue/infodump. I think the person making it thought they were being all arty and poetic, but it falls rather flat and would be much better with a proper writer who knew the meaning of show don't tell. EDIT: welp, again, this is apprently still going! as of 2012 anyway, turns out there's more episodes, a game and all sorts planned. Fatkraken fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Apr 27, 2014 |
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Apr 27, 2014 00:51
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Someone on SAmart was selling these dvds of the movie Valor's Kids a couple of years ago. The movie was directed and animated by 11 year old (when she began to work on it) Kai Mariah and was a 3 and a half year project. It's an impressive feat. It is also completely hilarious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHM1J9AXq_I Purchasing that dvd was one of my favorite purchases ever for the amount of entertainment it brought me. Luckily someone uploaded the entire film on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P8DcEg4G20
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Apr 27, 2014 08:23
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Kikka posted:Every single Richard Williams project itt. Which is a huge shame really! I'm positive from watching Persistence of Vision that The Thief and the Cobbler would have been a beautiful movie but also an unwatchable mess.
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Apr 27, 2014 14:07
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Does Foodfight! count for this thread? It certainly fits the "troubled," "project" and arguably "animation" parts.
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Apr 27, 2014 17:44
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Does Foodfight! count for this thread? It certainly fits the "troubled," "project" and arguably "animation" parts. Yeah Foodfight! is one of the few movies that is truly epic in its failure. When it was bought out by whatever insurance they basically edited together whatever they had and rolled with it. It's so horrible. The worst is how all of the "real world" stuff in it was unfinished to the point of all the human characters just sort of flailing around for walking. And there's lots of questionable content in it for a kid's movie that was clearly just the animators goofing around, not expecting a situation where anything produced had to be salvaged. Foodfight! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APrSSvvK2g Everything that can be wrong with a movie is wrong with this movie, even the character designs being inconsistent within the movie because of how many times they switched software, re-started and so on. Like the female lead is a cat girl, EXCEPT on the actual logo of the brand of raisins she's advertising, but then she is on some posters of her and stuff in the movie, it's crazy how off everything is. The way the main character is a detective, diplomat, club owner, Indiana Jones type adventurer, who knows. The script alternately plays out like someone's awful Toy Story fan fiction and someone's awful furry fan fiction. By all means watch from 18:49 on if you can't stand the preamble, but it's definitely worth suffering through. Ugh. The Thief and the Cobbler, man, that movie's great to watch even if there isn't a lot going on besides its looks. It's weird how timelessly good most of the animation is despite stuff like the character names being 70s as hell. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Apr 27, 2014 |
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Apr 27, 2014 17:55
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For those who have seen the entirety of Sealed with a Kiss, is the entire film somewhat like the animation in the trailer? While it looks like a no-budget Flash cartoon, the animation itself looks surprisingly good. Very nice movement - there's better drawn Flash animation with worse movement. One great example of a troubled animation project is Paul Grimault's Le roi et l'ouseau (aka The King and the Mockingbird/The Curious Adventures of Mister Wonderbird). Originally started after WWII as a collaboration with writer Jacques Prevert, it ran into troubles with the financiers and ended up being patched together into a sub-hour feature. While it's a bit disjointed, even the 1952 release is quite good. Especially helped by a surprisingly excellent voice cast (Peter Ustinov, Clare Bloom, and Denholm Elliot). Years later, Grimault bought back the rights to the film and finished it in the 1970s with a release in 1980. Both the '52 release and '80 version are terrific films. The earlier cut was seen by a young Hayao Miyazaki and got him interested into animation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IetbP0TqEE The animation itself is stunning, with overall art design resembling MC Escher and Salvador Dali. Not unlike The Thief and the Cobbler, there's barely any plot, it rambles on, and it's basically a series of setpieces, but the animation is quite astonishing. As good as the restored version is, the UK release is a bit more entertaining.
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Apr 27, 2014 18:06
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Pick posted:Lady Ice: 2010: 
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Apr 27, 2014 19:17
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I couldn't help but notice some unfortunate imagery in the trailer. What is that. On your ear. Is that... hair gel?
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Apr 27, 2014 19:24
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I suppose Animation is one of the few forms of motion picture that CAN start production then take 25 years to complete. Even the most troubled live action films have to account for the fact that actors age, such that it's rare for them to be put aside and picked up many years or even decades later, and there's a certain minimum staffing level you need to keep on with slow but constant production, whereas with animation you can carry on after a fashion even if you're down to a single person.
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Apr 27, 2014 19:26
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Fatkraken posted:I suppose Animation is one of the few forms of motion picture that CAN start production then take 25 years to complete. Even the most troubled live action films have to account for the fact that actors age, such that it's rare for them to be put aside and picked up many years or even decades later, and there's a certain minimum staffing level you need to keep on with slow but constant production, whereas with animation you can carry on after a fashion even if you're down to a single person. Hoffmaniada. Someday... someday....
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Apr 27, 2014 22:19
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I couldn't help but notice some unfortunate imagery in the trailer. I'm so hosed up.
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Apr 27, 2014 23:22
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Man, these are all excellent contributions and I feel I should take the time to say more about them. Am pretty busy though so this might take time. As a quick comment, man, Foodfight! is something else. I think Valor's Kids is more watchable and pleasant, and again, that was made by an 11-year-old (and I do think VK is impressive in its own right, but let's be honest it's a unique context). I mean, I almost feel like paralyzed by the idea of critiquing it, since where do you even start? It's not even like the Star Wars prequels where there's at least a familiar structure and one can express how it fails to be an effective example of that kind of film. But what the everloving christ was Foodfight! even trying to be? It looks abysmal, the tone is bizarre, the plot is baffling, not a single joke lands, and even the voice acting is inane. I've seen better work come out of 3D Movie Maker.
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Apr 28, 2014 21:22
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Pick posted:Man, these are all excellent contributions and I feel I should take the time to say more about them. Am pretty busy though so this might take time. Valor's Kids is made with silly, silly love and dedication, and I think it's really impressive. It's so very entertaining. Foodfight! is hateful garbage.
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Apr 28, 2014 22:10
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Yeah, it's right up there with Atlas Shrugged on my list of "thank god this was terrible" films.
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Apr 28, 2014 23:05
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Foodfight! is so strange because it's bad in ways that are hard to conceive or are just so detached from anything resembling an idea anyone should have ever had that it's almost alien. Like the central conflict is of cheap bargain brands vs the beloved mascots. To make it clear which we should root for (because let's be honest, most people's natural inclination would be not to actually care) they make the bargain generic brands into as close to literal Nazis as you can make something without them being literal Nazis. Like the movie references Casablanca seemingly just to emphasize just how Nazi like these generic brands are. It's just baffling. Any that's just the basic plot. It's also worth mentioning all the weird sexual stuff, the creepy characters, the bad writing, the animation that sort of goes past incompetent into something else, the lovely performances and the list just goes on.  ...Pick's right, it's actually hard to write about because there's so much wrong. There's not a single aspect of this movie that even approaches an idea someone with any sense would have had. It's almost like it was a dadaist prank about how commercialism destroys art.
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Apr 29, 2014 04:24
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I'd like to nominate Delgo as a troubled animation passion, the movie took so long to come out, one of the actors Anne Bancroft died during development, the director also expected it to surprass Shrek at the box office and be the new star wars (dream big), and well, the movie bombed HARD.
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Apr 29, 2014 04:46
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One troubled, unfinished animation passion project with a (relatively) happy ending is Elysian Tail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SijyDQ5TReA Back around 2003 or so an independent animator and Rescue Rangers fanboy named Dean Dodril announced that he was making an independent animated movie called Elysian Tail. The whole project was kind of  because the main character was a half-naked mouse girl who used to be his Rescue Rangers fan-character but the dude actually managed to put out a few brief pieces of animation before his output dried up.Flash-forward a few years and Dodril shifted gears from an animated feature film to a video game that was, again, a one-man project; he coded, wrote, and animated the entire thing himself. He won first place at a Microsoft-sponsored indie gaming contest (in no small part because it had fluid hand-animated 2d-graphics in a field where retro pixel graphics are the norm), got a bundle of money and a publishing deal with Microsoft, and the game wound up being a critical and commercial smash hit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MVaAZcxb54 Now thanks to all the money and interest from the game Dodril is once again working on his movie in between doing art for other indie games and his own future gaming projects. I have to admit I'm not really a fan of his art style or his writing but the dude had probably the best possible outcome with his little passion project from a decade ago.
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Apr 29, 2014 06:32
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Now thanks to all the money and interest from the game Dodril is once again working on his movie in between doing art for other indie games and his own future gaming projects. I have to admit I'm not really a fan of his art style or his writing but the dude had probably the best possible outcome with his little passion project from a decade ago. I've seen most of the cut-scenes/character interactions for Dust and and they are by FAR the weakest part of the game, most animation is loops of morphs on the basic character shapes, the artwork is OK other than the faces, which are extremely amateurish, and the plot/dialogue is pretty poor (though to be fair not really worse than a good chunk of oldschool RPGs). The voice acting is *ok* but it all really comes off like talent night at the furry con more than anything else; you can tell he tried and put in an incredible amount of work, but it's all just kinda lame. The game is popular because the gameplay is fast, smooth and fun, the backgrounds and character design/animation (when they're all too small to see the faces properly) is good and the RPG character progression satisfying. He's definitely got talent and skill when it comes to animation and that shows through in the monster and full character gameplay animation in the game, but he's not a good writer and the faces are EXTREMELY offputting I'm happy for him and all, but honestly if he makes a film he'd be taking away 95% of the reason the game got popular, which is that it was a GAME. I just hope he realises this and isn't too sad when the film isn't popular. Fatkraken fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 19:20
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I've mentioned The Primevals before here. I just think it's fascinating. It's live-action technically, but most of the meat of this fantasy film about lizard-people and a lost island is the amazing stop motion creatures. David Allen, one of the great stop motion animators who was unlucky enough to come of age just as stop motion was waning, worked on an off on the film between the 1960s and his death in 1999. It was supposedly very close to finished with a workprint. Charles Band owns the rights, all the props are in storage, waiting for the funds to complete it. The few moments of leaked footage are wonderful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN48BINgdjk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To-cNJ_4nRU
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Apr 29, 2014 19:47
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Good lord, that's wonderful. Love it.
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Apr 29, 2014 19:53
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How does long term storage even work for puppets like that? As far as I know, most older stop motion creatures were made made of latex in various forms, with a metal armature. Latex is a wonderful, versatile material, but it doesn't last, it perishes and rots, especially the flexible foamed forms. Even the best preserved latex and foam latex props become brittle and crumbly over time, and poorly preserved ones just crumble to dust. All I can think of is that the fibreglass/plaster molds for the skins have been preserved and when a new round of filming is undertaken, the metal skeletons are stripped of their old, rotten skins and new ones are fabricated.
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Apr 29, 2014 20:09
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Fatkraken posted:How does long term storage even work for puppets like that? As far as I know, most older stop motion creatures were made made of latex in various forms, with a metal armature. Latex is a wonderful, versatile material, but it doesn't last, it perishes and rots, especially the flexible foamed forms. Even the best preserved latex and foam latex props become brittle and crumbly over time, and poorly preserved ones just crumble to dust. All I can think of is that the fibreglass/plaster molds for the skins have been preserved and when a new round of filming is undertaken, the metal skeletons are stripped of their old, rotten skins and new ones are fabricated. We're both totally thinking of the same picture of Hoggle.
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Apr 29, 2014 21:21
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Pick posted:We're both totally thinking of the same picture of Hoggle. My go-to is usually the pre restoration Sir Didymus from the Tom Spina Designs page, or the Landstrider head. It's the best resource for knackered foam latex props and creatures, those people are loving miracle workers http://www.tomspinadesigns.com/Restoration.html latex based puppets just wouldn't last from 1960-1999, I can only surmise that they MUST have at least reskinned them, or just skinned new armatures, perhaps from the original moulds. Reskinning is pretty common on heavily used puppets or animatronics, I know the Farscape puppet cast got new skins practically every episode and some were completely rebuilt between seasons as they added more functionality and refined the designs. EDIT: googling around for the destroyed Hoggle and I found the restoration. UGH, it's a loving travesty, worst prop restoration job I've seen in a long time. The new sculptor doesn't seem to have ever actually looked at a picture of the character, the "restored" hoggle is wrinkle free and airbrushed to poo poo and back. I found some images of the restoration, the guy stripped off every scrap of foam latex and scuplted a completely new, awful looking, skin. That's completely against the spirit of a good restoration, I'm gobsmacked, to me it's is a crime akin to the monkey-jesus fresco thing that was in the news. The original puppet was in bad shape, but a good restorer retains every scrap of original material he can and does a sensitive and careful rebuilding of what can't be salvaged. Fatkraken fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Apr 29, 2014 |
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Apr 29, 2014 22:13
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I assume it's just the armatures and, I dunno, material swatches left.
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Apr 29, 2014 22:18
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Dissapointed Owl posted:Someone on SAmart was selling these dvds of the movie Valor's Kids a couple of years ago. The movie was directed and animated by 11 year old (when she began to work on it) Kai Mariah and was a 3 and a half year project. the guy who helped fund this or produce this or something turned out to be a pedophile.
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Apr 29, 2014 22:55
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N. Senada posted:the guy who helped fund this or produce this or something turned out to be a pedophile. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Apr 29, 2014 23:23
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Pick posted:Diana Kennedy, a graphic novelist, is fascinated by JFK, as well as by trains, horses, and moonwives. In her alternate-universe setting, JFK is the son of Poseidon who fights George W Hitler and flies UFOs to the moon, among other things. His totems are the deer and the mighty marlin. All of these books are available on the Antique White House lulu store, if case you wanted to know how JFK came to polygamously gay-marry an elf who is also a horse. Say no more 
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Apr 30, 2014 03:59
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Saw the thread title and came here to post Wolf. I'm glad it was covered in the OP since it's such a classic mess of a project. Speaking of wolves and troubled animation projects, does anyone know what became of the French(?) White Fang adaptation that was in production several years ago? They put out one lovely trailer, but I've never seen anything since nor heard what the fate of the film was. Given all the silence, I can only assume it was killed or shelved for some reason.
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Apr 30, 2014 09:22
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N. Senada posted:the guy who helped fund this or produce this or something turned out to be a pedophile. Gee, you think?
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Apr 30, 2014 12:19
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The thief and the cobbler is probably the most famous troubled animation passion project. If you're one of the few people who haven't heard of it you can read about it's long and tragic history here: http://www.tested.com/art/movies/44961-thieves-cobblers-and-fan-edits-the-50_year-odyssey-of-an-animated-masterpiece/ You can also watch the movie in as close of a state to finished as it will ever be here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL18B0CA620B61D076 Also does Kingdom of the Sun which would eventually become The Emperors New groove count?
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Apr 30, 2014 15:54
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Weren't they paying Sting to fly to and from Central America every week for that and then didn't even use any of the music or work he did? Crazy.
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Apr 30, 2014 16:19
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This thread actually made me watch Thief and the Cobbler again. God drat that is some animation.
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Apr 30, 2014 18:58
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Neo Rasa posted:Weren't they paying Sting to fly to and from Central America every week for that and then didn't even use any of the music or work he did? Crazy. That said the actual film that came out of it is way better than Kingdom of the Sun would probably ever have been.
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Apr 30, 2014 19:10
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Kikka posted:This thread actually made me watch Thief and the Cobbler again. God drat that is some animation. Shame about literally everything other than the animation, though.
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Apr 30, 2014 19:16
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Shame about literally everything other than the animation, though. Except Vincent Price! Also can we talk about terrible animation in general? Because Don Bluth is problematic.
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Apr 30, 2014 19:23
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Kikka posted:Except Vincent Price! I'd love to hear more about this particular subject from someone more versed in animation than I.
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Apr 30, 2014 19:37
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