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Hello Ontarians and concerned observers: we're doing it again. The Lieutenant Governor will call an election for June 12th. Major Issues: (will expand later)
In Canadian politics thread tradition, here are the major players, listed in order of polling as of May 2nd: Kathleen Wynne
Timothy Hudak
Andrea Horwath
quote:You may be forgiven for feeling like you already know what's in the 2014 Ontario budget -- it had more leaks than a sieve in the weeks leading up to budget day. quote:One of the great destructive conceits of modern political economy is the underlying assumption that governments manage and control economic activity. Every budget by national or regional governments comes with false claims that the fiscal actions taken — to raise taxes or lower them, to spend more here or less there, to launch new initiatives or to re-shuffle old assets and programs — will deliver new jobs, new wealth and new prosperity. Kafka Esq. fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 3, 2014 |
# ? May 3, 2014 16:07 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 02:35 |
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This campaign is going to be all about dolla dolla bills, y'all. I mean, aren't they all? But the Liberals will most definitely be campaigning on their budget, and on their plans to expand infrastructure in the province, especially in Toronto (to the tune of $29 billion), the expansion of the massive deposit of mineral wealth in the north, the so-called "Ring of Fire" which is set at $1 billion, hinging on the feds to provide an additional billion (I wouldn't hold my breath, personally), and the much-touted Ontario Pension Plan, wherein every employee would be paying 1.9% of their salary, matched by their employer, into a fund that would be drawn upon after retirement. Tim Hudak has been pushing his "Million Jobs Plan" for several months, and opposes the Liberals on principle. He's of the mind that we need to cut, cut, cut, and then cut some more, to get the province out of trouble, as if government programs are wild, tangled jungle growth, and he's the guy with the machete. Hudak will likely be campaigning on not only his plan to create a million jobs, but on the plethora of Liberal spending mismanagement stories and scandals, including the $1.1 billion dollar gas plant cancellations (which, as Kafka Esq. pointed out, he was going to cancel as well, but he insists he'd have found a cheaper and more transparent way to do it), the deleted e-mails surrounding the canceled gas plants (which are under police investigation), the green energy program, which Tim Hudak is opposed to and, while he'd be forced to uphold the province's end of existing contracts if he became premier, he says he'll sign no new deals for wind farms or solar panels anywhere else in the province, and the mismanagement of the province's air ambulance service ORNGE. What I'm interested in seeing is whether or not Hudak and the PCs will continue to evoke the name and imagery of former premier Dalton McGuinty. Their last campaign used his name more than McGuinty's did and I'm certain it's partly responsible for their failure to grasp the reins of government. Tim Hudak spent more time talking about what the Liberals DID than what he would DO. And Horwath will campaign on something. I don't know. Her lack of confidence in the Liberals, I guess. Get ready for a fun campaign, everyone! (But seriously, it'll probably be pretty boring.) HackensackBackpack fucked around with this message at 22:33 on May 3, 2014 |
# ? May 3, 2014 17:06 |
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Choosing "comedy option" since I can't vote. I feel like there's a good chance we'll end up with the same balance of power we had last week. tagesschau fucked around with this message at 19:44 on May 3, 2014 |
# ? May 3, 2014 18:13 |
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Wynne's come out fighting against federal comments directed towards her budget. Apparently both Harper and Finance Minister Joe Oliver had some not nice things to say about the proposed budget, particularly the pension plan, so now she's pinning Harper as the face of the Conservative Party in Ontario. At this rate Hudak won't even need to open his mouth to sink his chances.
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# ? May 3, 2014 18:22 |
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Kathleen Wynne: Harper 'taking over the voice' of Tories in OntarioCBC posted:Just hours into the Ontario election on Friday, senior federal Conservatives stepped into the fight, delivering unvarnished scorn for some of Wynne's signature policies. Not sure how credible the federal Tories are on this issue, given that they intentionally created a deficit (by cutting the GST) as soon as they got into power.
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# ? May 3, 2014 18:23 |
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Say no to PP...Ps!
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# ? May 3, 2014 18:31 |
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Just whom does Horwath think her party's supposed to appeal to now that she's gone and deliberately pissed off the unions in a bid for power? Let's start a petition to force the NDP to rename itself to the New Liberal Party it so desperately wants to be.
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# ? May 3, 2014 18:37 |
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I'm curious which way the teacher's unions are going to break, they went pretty hardcore NDP the last election thanks to the Liberal's forcing a contract on them. I basically just vote at the local level, my MPP (Cheri DiNovo) generally hasn't made a mess of anything. Although I'm sick of the "clean trains now" bullshit, I read the district newsletter and I still have no idea what else she's done around here, they've been pushing it so much.
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# ? May 3, 2014 20:12 |
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Brought to you by ATU Local 113. Ha! Interestingly, the ATU Canadian Council hasn't come out for or against anyone yet.
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# ? May 3, 2014 20:16 |
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One MPP is accusing another MPP of blocking the appointment of a Financial Accountability Officer. http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1349111/document-reveals-horwath-misled-on-financial-accountability-officer?relation=org quote:Andrea Horwath made the lack of a new Financial Accountability Officer the centrepiece of the NDP's rationale for an election, but new documents reveal that the vacancy exists only because the NDP blocked the appointment of two qualified candidates. Nothing from the PCs yet today, near as I can tell. Their website isn't even updated with anything new. People are tweeting the link to volunteer for the party on the #onpoli hashtag pretty hard, though.
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# ? May 3, 2014 22:33 |
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Leofish posted:One MPP is accusing another MPP of blocking the appointment of a Financial Accountability Officer. None of the three parties' sites seems to reflect the fact that there's an election. Perhaps it's because the campaign hasn't officially started yet.
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# ? May 3, 2014 23:11 |
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tagesschau posted:None of the three parties' sites seems to reflect the fact that there's an election. Perhaps it's because the campaign hasn't officially started yet. Yeah, I didn't realise it's not officially underway until Wednesday. Hudak had an appearance on CBC today. He wants to "hang an open for business sign on Ontario." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-votes-2014/hudak-stresses-job-creation-reduced-spending-1.2631191
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# ? May 3, 2014 23:42 |
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Heavy neutrino posted:Just whom does Horwath think her party's supposed to appeal to now that she's gone and deliberately pissed off the unions in a bid for power? What is the NDP platform anyways? I mean what more did they want besides what the Liberals gave them? Seemed like a pretty good budget and the NDP is just being retarded and having an election. I will hate the NDP forever if Hudak somehow wins.
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# ? May 4, 2014 00:55 |
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Ontario Election Thread: What is the NDP platform anyways? Seriously, they triggered an election without any indication of what they'd do differently, or at all. They've gotten everything they wanted from the Liberals, every time they've asked.
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# ? May 4, 2014 02:04 |
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What's the polling like on this? Is it even worth it to ask, considering how lovely Canadian polling has been lately?
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# ? May 4, 2014 03:25 |
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Badger of Basra posted:What's the polling like on this? Is it even worth it to ask, considering how lovely Canadian polling has been lately?
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# ? May 4, 2014 03:30 |
Badger of Basra posted:What's the polling like on this? Is it even worth it to ask, considering how lovely Canadian polling has been lately? I've been wondering both of these things basically since the brutal BC shakeup last year.
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# ? May 4, 2014 03:34 |
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Plus ça change...
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# ? May 4, 2014 03:51 |
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Badger of Basra posted:What's the polling like on this? Is it even worth it to ask, considering how lovely Canadian polling has been lately? Here's EKOS results: http://www.ipolitics.ca/2014/05/02/ontario-ndp-fading-at-critical-point-as-election-looms/ 34.7% Liberals, 31.6% Conservatives, 22.2% NDP, 9% Green amongst decided voters (18% undecided) Some other interesting graphs there, breakdown by region, gender, education, etc. 2011 election results poll by poll if you're interested here with clickable maps http://globalnews.ca/news/1306656/ontarios-voting-again-here-are-2011-election-results-poll-by-poll/
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# ? May 4, 2014 03:51 |
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I'm very confused by the 4.6% of federal NDP supporters who say they'll vote for Hudak.
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# ? May 4, 2014 04:38 |
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JimboMaloi posted:I'm very confused by the 4.6% of federal NDP supporters who say they'll vote for Hudak. It's a tiny percentage of the vote - 35% federal NDP supporters, roughly, gives at most 2% of Ontario voters who voted for Jack and would vote PC. There are a number of ridings in Canada where the Liberals regularly finish a distant 3rd, so I can certainly see some small minority of old federal PC voters who are disillusioned with Harper and more disappointed with Horwath than Hudak. Or maybe they care about their local candidate/MPP. That data really makes me confused about Horwath's decision. It seems like NDP support is really cratering. Of course there's time to turn it around but I really don't see evidence of a plan from the ONDP. They have some individually good MPPs but the party as a whole seems to be mess.
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# ? May 4, 2014 05:01 |
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JimboMaloi posted:I'm very confused by the 4.6% of federal NDP supporters who say they'll vote for Hudak.
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# ? May 4, 2014 09:10 |
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Dr. Witherbone posted:I've been wondering both of these things basically since the brutal BC shakeup last year. The pollsters also called for a large Wildrose majority in the Alberta election in 2011. The provincial NDP must be hoping its still out of whack because I dont see why you'd risk a PC minority/majority when you're the balance of power in a liberal minority government, granted I'm not an Ontarian so I might not be in tune with what's actually happening there.
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# ? May 4, 2014 10:00 |
Regence posted:The pollsters also called for a large Wildrose majority in the Alberta election in 2011. The provincial NDP must be hoping its still out of whack because I dont see why you'd risk a PC minority/majority when you're the balance of power in a liberal minority government, granted I'm not an Ontarian so I might not be in tune with what's actually happening there. If the previous election is anything to go on it's not too big of a risk, hopefully. Poking around, there aren't that many severe left-wing splits leading to conservative majorities, though it's severe by Canadian standards I'm talking about : I didn't see any L32-N32-C36 nailbiters. Here's hoping we avoid all that garbage entirely!
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# ? May 4, 2014 10:14 |
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Regence posted:The pollsters also called for a large Wildrose majority in the Alberta election in 2011. The provincial NDP must be hoping its still out of whack because I dont see why you'd risk a PC minority/majority when you're the balance of power in a liberal minority government, granted I'm not an Ontarian so I might not be in tune with what's actually happening there.
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# ? May 4, 2014 13:30 |
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:What is the NDP platform anyways? I mean what more did they want besides what the Liberals gave them? Seemed like a pretty good budget and the NDP is just being retarded and having an election. ... and why is it such an NDP-heavy budget? Because right now the Liberals really don't want an election; the gas plant scandal is still really visible and they've been losing byelections all over the place. And Hudak is a terrible politician who scares votes away every time he opens his mouth. If Horwath hadn't forced the election, that would give Wynne another year to distance herself from McGuinty and push through high-visibility voter-friendly policies. So strategically I think it's a sound decision. That's assuming you actually want the NDP to win, which most NDPers do. If you just want the NDP to sit in 3rd place and keep the Liberals scared then yeah, I guess you'll be disappointed.
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# ? May 4, 2014 14:28 |
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infernal machines posted:I basically just vote at the local level, my MPP (Cheri DiNovo) generally hasn't made a mess of anything. Although I'm sick of the "clean trains now" bullshit, I read the district newsletter and I still have no idea what else she's done around here, they've been pushing it so much. This is where I'm at too. I like DiNovo, but if it wasn't for her I don't know who I'd be voting for. One little bit that's cool about her: she fought for years to get transgender people added to the Ontario Human Rights Code and eventually succeeded. She gets big points for that. I still intend to give her an earful about internal party democracy, specifically that twit Giambrone. Her son is also friends with my neighbor, I drink beers with them occasionally. Cool guy, even if he's got the classic 'rebel against my parents politics' thing going on.
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# ? May 4, 2014 15:14 |
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Guy DeBorgore posted:That's assuming you actually want the NDP to win, which most NDPers do. If you just want the NDP to sit in 3rd place and keep the Liberals scared then yeah, I guess you'll be disappointed. I'd posit that a lot of NDP supporters aren't NDP supporters because they want the NDP to win, but because they want left-wing policies to be implemented. This budget looks a whole lot like the Liberals delivering on longstanding NDP priorities on several fronts, and it might have been nice for the ONDP to take yes for an answer.
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# ? May 4, 2014 15:32 |
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Sashimi posted:There's a pretty good chance someone within the PC ranks is going to make a severe gaffe that the media and the other parties can easily latch on to, sinking their chances. Two elections ago it was John Tory's proposal to have a vote on funding faith based schools, last time I think it was some backbenchers saying some crazy racist nonsense. Part of the PCs fallapart last time around was the viceral reaction to Dalton McGuinty's proposal to change sex ed in elementary and high schools, possibly teaching children that transgendered people are a thing. There were many other proposals in the change, like the correct names for sex organs being taught in Grade 1, I think, and it flipped out the PC base, so Hudak had to go out and denounce it, and it made him look like a bit of a prude, and a bit of a trans/homophobe. Of course later, a former deputy minister of education, Benjamin Levin, was arrested on child porn charges in New Zealand. He wasn't deputy minister in 2011, but there was speculation that he had a hand in the sex ed overhaul, and that it wasn't a benign one. He was also part of Wynne's transition team when she took over. Tim Hudak will be on "The Province" on Newstalk 1010 in Toronto at 1:00 this afternoon, as well as on CKTB 610 in Niagara Falls, CKLW 800 in Windsor and 580 CFRA in Ottawa. There might be something interesting there, but if I was to wager a guess he'll likely just be sticking to his script of "lower taxes, create jobs, corrupt liberals." As far as Horwath goes, I can't figure it out, either... The only people who seemed to me to be happy with her decision were PC supporters who just wanted an election. They're not going to vote for the NDP, and in my anecdotal circles, they're still unhappy that it took her so long to bring the government down in the first place.
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# ? May 4, 2014 16:17 |
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Pinterest Mom posted:I'd posit that a lot of NDP supporters aren't NDP supporters because they want the NDP to win, but because they want left-wing policies to be implemented. This budget looks a whole lot like the Liberals delivering on longstanding NDP priorities on several fronts, and it might have been nice for the ONDP to take yes for an answer. I think it'd generally be long term political death for the ONDP and all of it's ideas if it backed Liberal government without a formal coalition agreement for the totality of it's term in office, it's asking to be seen as redundant. There's also zero ways to enforce the delivery of these promises once the Bill is passed before the next election a year from now, when no one will be paying attention at all because it'll be right on top of a federal election campaign.
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# ? May 4, 2014 16:57 |
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Leofish posted:As far as Horwath goes, I can't figure it out, either... The only people who seemed to me to be happy with her decision were PC supporters who just wanted an election. They're not going to vote for the NDP, and in my anecdotal circles, they're still unhappy that it took her so long to bring the government down in the first place. It seems really clear to me, Wynne promised the NDP three tiny things in 2013 and delivered on none of them. The provincial Liberals have a bit of a track record of not delivering on election promises. How would she look if she fell for it two years in a row and has to go to the polls after another year of media around the criminal actions around the gas plant? If she was going to vote against the budget no matter what, it may have been smart to say that before it came out. On the other hand, now the Liberals are locked into defending the most expensive budget we've seen in decades while our debt to gdp ratio is higher than it's ever been. Maybe she is a political mastermind? quote:“How can Kathleen Wynne promise to build a ship when she hasn’t even built a raft?” Horwath said. “We don’t have any confidence whatsoever in their ability to come through on those promises.”
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# ? May 4, 2014 17:04 |
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Ikantski posted:... the Liberals are locked into defending the most expensive budget we've seen in decades while our debt to gdp ratio is higher than it's ever been. Maybe she is a political mastermind? I'm curious how you think an NDP budget would differ materially from the one the Liberals put forward. Unless, of course you're dismissing them both and counting on an OPC win.
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# ? May 4, 2014 17:44 |
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infernal machines posted:I'm curious how you think an NDP budget would differ materially from the one the Liberals put forward. Unless, of course you're dismissing them both and counting on an OPC win. Would fix the corporate income tax deficit which is the ultimate cause of Ontario's structural revenue deficiency. Wouldn't screw over public sector workers on their pensions. Would not be a one-off campaign budget no one expects to be fully implemented, but part of a consistent governing philosophy.
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# ? May 4, 2014 18:10 |
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As a PC, I would gladly take Horwath over Wynne at this point. An NDP budget would probably similar, less infrastructure and corporate subsidies but at least it would be based on their party's values instead of pandering for votes. The NDP fear of nuclear power usually scares me but I'm not sure what her platform is on that. I'm curious why you think the Liberals would actually deliver on their promises to NDP this year when they didn't deliver on a single one last year? Edit: Hudak is hosting his own call-in radio show on 580, 1010 and probably whatever your local conservative AM station is right now.
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# ? May 4, 2014 18:13 |
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Ikantski posted:As a PC, I would gladly take Horwath over Wynne at this point. An NDP budget would probably similar, less infrastructure and corporate subsidies but at least it would be based on their party's values instead of pandering for votes. The NDP fear of nuclear power usually scares me but I'm not sure what her platform is on that. The nuclear power thing has always been an issue for me with the NDP, I have no idea why that's even part of their platform. Regarding the infrastructure subsidies, I would hope for more rather than less from the NDP, especially given their renewed focus on urban areas. Interest rates are low and infrastructure of all stripes is in dire need of maintenance, repair, and upgrades. I don't think letting the wheels fall off our civic infrastructure is really a good money saving policy. I have no reason to believe the OLP would deliver on anything in the budget in particular, but presumably they'd make a good show of it. On the other hand the NDP is going to be in a much worse position in the event of a OPC minority government.
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# ? May 4, 2014 18:24 |
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infernal machines posted:I have no reason to believe the OLP would deliver on anything in the budget in particular, but presumably they'd make a good show of it. On the other hand the NDP is going to be in a much worse position in the event of a OPC minority government. Minority governments do not last 4 years, the NDP voting down the government isn't some shocking development.
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# ? May 4, 2014 18:37 |
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This is a stupid election and I hope the NDP pay for it by electing a Liberal majority, at which point Wynne will steal all the NDP's good plays and name every bill the "Laugh at Andrea Horwath Act".
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# ? May 4, 2014 21:05 |
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So I've figured out what is going to sink the PCO this time, Hudak or someone is going to talk about family values at some point and say Wynne doesn't speak for Ontario families, which will come off as an attack because of her sexuality. You know it will happen
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# ? May 4, 2014 21:10 |
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vyelkin posted:This is a stupid election and I hope the NDP pay for it by electing a Liberal majority, at which point Wynne will steal all the NDP's good plays and name every bill the "Laugh at Andrea Horwath Act". The first thing a Liberal majority will do is stop playing lip service to the left. Their priorities under a majority (and when they were down one seat) were engineering "a very special report on the importance of austerity" and crushing the teachers and other public sector unions.
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# ? May 4, 2014 21:14 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 02:35 |
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sbaldrick posted:So I've figured out what is going to sink the PCO this time, Hudak or someone is going to talk about family values at some point and say Wynne doesn't speak for Ontario families, which will come off as an attack because of her sexuality. I really hope that doesn't happen, because that would be a load of garbage. There are plenty of issues facing the province that are way more important than some vague "family values" thing. The keyword lately seems to be more "working families" than "family values." Wynne hasn't played up her sexuality at all since becoming premier, aside from the first couple of days after she was appointed when everyone wanted to talk about it, and I hope the PCs stay away from it, too, because it means nothing in terms of her ability to lead a government or plan a budget, or anything else she'll actually be doing.
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# ? May 4, 2014 21:25 |