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Data wanted to be a human because he was made to live as a human in a human colony. He was effectively a robot human. When he created his daughter, he just gave made her as a vague humanoid form before letting her decide on a species and gender.
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May 20, 2014 05:09
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Trent posted:It's annoying when Vulcans say "that is a human emotion (dumbass)" to someone like Phlox who isn't loving human at all. Vulcans were so badly written. Star Trek writers really didn't seem to understand what emotions even are. These characters who are supposed to never express emotions (or even have emotions in the case of Data and Lore) express emotions all the time, just like every other character.
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May 20, 2014 05:49
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LeJackal posted:StarTrek.txt The episode of Voyager where Chakotay is drawn to the magical Space Reservation for Native Americans. Star Trek is just regular irritating.
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May 20, 2014 05:51
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Tiggum posted:Vulcans were so badly written. Star Trek writers really didn't seem to understand what emotions even are. These characters who are supposed to never express emotions (or even have emotions in the case of Data and Lore) express emotions all the time, just like every other character. After this was pointed out to me (i think watching red letter media or something) it really irritates me that in the new films Spock is regularly called emotionless by Kirk despite that fact that 50% of the time he is quite clearly wildly emotional about something. Spock is like a passive aggressive Vulcan or something - he's a dick most of the time then when people point it out he just goes "vulcan lol no emotions".
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May 20, 2014 23:53
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Well, that's kind of Spock's thing. He acts like he's all emotionless but he's the exact opposite. That's even a plot point in Trek09.
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May 20, 2014 23:59
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Tiggum posted:Vulcans were so badly written. Star Trek writers really didn't seem to understand what emotions even are. These characters who are supposed to never express emotions (or even have emotions in the case of Data and Lore) express emotions all the time, just like every other character. Oh, without question, though at the same time if they accurately wrote a character who didn't feel emotion it would disturb the HELL out of the audience. I've listened to audio recordings of people who don't feel emotion and they are just chilling to listen to because, contrary to popular belief, having a monotone voice isn't "feeling zero emotion". There is a blunt affect in their tone, VERY simple language and a total lack of abstract thinking. Just be glad the sociopathic and logical thinkings on TV are written to entertain, I guess.
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May 21, 2014 00:23
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Trent posted:It's annoying when Vulcans say "that is a human emotion (dumbass)" to someone like Phlox who isn't loving human at all. One of my favourite bits in Undiscovered Country is when the Klingons object to being told they have 'human rights'. Shame the writing generally went downhill from there. It was one of the few times an alien race was portrayed as anything other than a single exaggerated personality trait.
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May 21, 2014 00:36
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Spock's half-human, but his dad was a Vulcan ambassador and they all lived on Vulcan and his human mam had tried her best to assimilate, and the Vulcan kids picked on him when he was little, so he felt he had to be really into Vulcan culture, including suppressing his emotions. Vulcans actually have quite violent emotions, they just learnt to control them with a bunch of meditation and rituals that Surak came up with years ago. Tuvok in Voyager never finished his training so he's really angry half the time. The original series looks a bit dated now, but it handled it a lot better than the other series that had Vulcans - Journey To Babel shows what Spock's really like and his difficulty with living between two very different cultures, having grown up on Vulcan and now being the only Vulcan among a ship full of humans. When he keeps saying "blah blah I am a vulcan I have no emotions", he's trying to convince himself as much as anyone else. No idea how Data's emotions are supposed to work though. There's always a mawkish bit in every Data episode where he pauses a little or he does a weird facial expression or makes a decision based on "emotions" and you're meant to think "aww he does have feelings after all" but it never makes sense. And then there's the question of what he's defining as emotions or feelings (he can "feel" all sorts of things, he can detect whether a piece of music is pleasing to his brain and what that one kid's painting was meant to express) and why his "positronic brain" can't replicate them specifically when it can apparently do just about everything else a human brain can do. edit: Trent posted:It's annoying when Vulcans say "that is a human emotion (dumbass)" to someone like Phlox who isn't loving human at all. Dax actually called them out on that in that one DS9 episode where they all play baseball against some Vulcans for some reason. They go on about "human emotions" when the DS9 team's celebrating their win and she just says "did I forget to put my spots on today?" and pisses them off even more. I've no idea why any Vulcans other than Spock would say that. Stottie Kyek has a new favorite as of 02:45 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 02:42
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Stottie Kyek posted:Dax actually called them out on that in that one DS9 episode where they all play baseball against some Vulcans for some reason. They go on about "human emotions" when the DS9 team's celebrating their win and she just says "did I forget to put my spots on today?" and pisses them off even more. I've no idea why any Vulcans other than Spock would say that. Probably because the Federation is almost entirely made up of humans. It's basically the human nation (and also Vulcans and some miscellaneous others). And Dax looks human (I assume tattoos are still a thing in the 24th century). Those Vulcans may not even have heard of Trills, it's not like there are a lot of them.
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May 21, 2014 04:14
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I wish some intelligent huge whale-like creature wanted to join Starfleet and they had to make accomodations for it because of the ADA act. Like the thing shits out 30 tons a day and takes up 25 decks and its only an ensign.
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May 21, 2014 04:37
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There was that episode where Wesley was applying to Starfleet and there were all these super crazy and difficult tests and I'm like, really? Every single redshirt went through this crap? I don't think so.
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May 21, 2014 04:40
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muscles like this? posted:There was that episode where Wesley was applying to Starfleet and there were all these super crazy and difficult tests and I'm like, really? Every single redshirt went through this crap? I don't think so. I thought red shirts were like NCOs and such. Like, O'Brien made a point of the fact that he wasn't an officer, probably didn't go to the academy, right?
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May 21, 2014 06:47
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muscles like this? posted:There was that episode where Wesley was applying to Starfleet and there were all these super crazy and difficult tests and I'm like, really? Every single redshirt went through this crap? I don't think so. The red shirts are probably mostly enlisted, so they only had to score above the 30th percentile on an aptitude test based around 10th grade level knowledge.
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May 21, 2014 07:24
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muscles like this? posted:There was that episode where Wesley was applying to Starfleet and there were all these super crazy and difficult tests and I'm like, really? Every single redshirt went through this crap? I don't think so. syscall girl posted:I thought red shirts were like NCOs and such. Like, O'Brien made a point of the fact that he wasn't an officer, probably didn't go to the academy, right?
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May 21, 2014 08:02
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Stottie Kyek posted:No idea how Data's emotions are supposed to work though. There's always a mawkish bit in every Data episode where he pauses a little or he does a weird facial expression or makes a decision based on "emotions" and you're meant to think "aww he does have feelings after all" but it never makes sense. And then there's the question of what he's defining as emotions or feelings (he can "feel" all sorts of things, he can detect whether a piece of music is pleasing to his brain and what that one kid's painting was meant to express) and why his "positronic brain" can't replicate them specifically when it can apparently do just about everything else a human brain can do. Data doesn't get actual emotions until he gets the emotion chip installed in his brain. Throughout most of the series, he's trying to mimic human emotions as much as he can. I'm a little fuzzy on some of the later episodes, but I know in one of the books he's experimenting with humor, and laughs at things he thinks are jokes, even if they aren't meant to be jokes, and things like sarcasm fly right over his head.
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May 21, 2014 08:39
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You know the bit in Pirates of the Caribbean where that one pirate is going to cut Orlando Bloom into handsome kibble and he's all "ARR I'M GOING TO TEACH YOU THE MEANIN' OF PAIN" And then Keira Knightley is all "YOU LIKE PAIN?" and hits him and then is all "TRY WEARING A CORSET" and the audience doesn't laugh because Keira Knightley is a terrible actress and has no comedic timing? Well the dude doesn't even like pain. He just says he's going to teach Orlando Bloom the meaning of pain. Like, if someone asks me the meaning of "costermonger" it doesn't mean I'm all ker-razy for fruit barrows, it just means I know that word. If the pirate dude REALLY liked pain he'd be in some brothel someplace throwing dubloons to whichever wench was able to most ruthlessly stomp on his salty balls.
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May 21, 2014 09:03
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oldpainless posted:I wish some intelligent huge whale-like creature wanted to join Starfleet and they had to make accomodations for it because of the ADA act. In the books and comics, there's a Horta called Lieutenant Naraht who joined Starfleet. The crew first meets one in the original series episode "The Devil in the Dark" - they're big intelligent silicon-based things. They're not as big as a whale (they're about as big as a human on all fours because it's a bloke in a suit), but they eat by tunnelling through rock and digesting the rock by excreting powerful acid, and can manage in oxygen-based atmospheres for a while but don't like it much, so not very easy to have on a ship. They look like this:  edit: For more sci-fi sperging, my boyfriend and I (an electrical engineer and a statistician, both huge nerds) got really pissed off watching Transcendence. Why would all the power grids across the world go down when all Internet-enabled devices are shut down? And a lot of the mainframes Johnny Depp said he was hacking into wouldn't have been connected to the Internet anyway, there's no reason for them to be and it's just a security risk. Also there's meant to be this whole puzzle of "is it Johnny Depp or is it PINN the computer?", but we never actually see what PINN behaves like to compare them. There's an episode of Black Mirror called "Be Right Back" with a similar idea to Transcendence (how much of this computer is really the dead guy) but it covers all the stuff about social media much better - a young widow orders some software that replicates what her dead husband would say based on his social media history. But the recreation of the dead guy looks more handsome than the real guy because his look is based on composites of only the photos he kept to share, and he doesn't know all the intimate secrets and shared memories that he had with his wife because they never uploaded them, and other things happen. And it's only 45 minutes long. Stottie Kyek has a new favorite as of 09:17 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 09:07
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Whenever a robot or machine breaks and has its voice slow down. Watching I, Robot again recently has been driving me nuts with this. Also Spooner's "you so have to die" line feels really flacid. Actually anytime there's a one liner and it doesn't quite work.
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May 21, 2014 11:26
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Disgusting Coward posted:You know the bit in Pirates of the Caribbean where that one pirate is going to cut Orlando Bloom into handsome kibble and he's all They should have had her shout "I'll show you the meaning of pain" then they hold him down and strap him into a corset.
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May 21, 2014 12:27
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I have one that's entirely nitpicky and ridiculous, but this is the irrationally irritating moments thread. In Aliens there's a line of gunsperging about the space bullets their weapons fire and they're described as high-explosive caseless ammunition. It's meant to make them sound like a high-tech, extremely deadly round (hence the entire conversation, since they're worried about them destroying vital equipment inside a fusion reactor). The only downside is that the props were built on real-life Thompson submachine guns and random shotgun parts jammed into a plastic frame. So every time the marines fire their caseless weapons, shell casings go flying everywhere.
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May 21, 2014 12:59
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I love Galaxy Quest. It's probably the perfect combination of satire and love letter to Star Trek and similar shows/movies. But the whole idea that these aliens don't understand TV/movies really falls apart if you look closely at it. If all they had ever seen was the Galaxy Quest show, I could let it pass. But the little Gilligan's Island joke makes it clear that they have seen plenty of broadcasts from Earth. So I find it hard to believe they couldn't have pieced together that it was all fake, what with poo poo like interviews with actors, directors, "Making of" and "Behind the Scenes" specials, TV shows and movies that are about making other TV shows and movies, etc... Not to mention all the other shows and movies they would have seen that contradict each other/take place in different time periods/etc... Even if they didn't figure out that it was all some sort of "fabrication," they should have at least thought that the people they saw were "re-creating" the real adventures of the Galaxy Quest crew, and then been all like, "Well where the gently caress is the real crew and spaceship?" And then there's the whole, "How could they big an Omega 13 device" when, judging from the snippets of dialogue we heard, it was never really explained that well on the show itself?
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May 21, 2014 14:39
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10 Beers posted:Data doesn't get actual emotions until he gets the emotion chip installed in his brain. Throughout most of the series, he's trying to mimic human emotions as much as he can. I'm a little fuzzy on some of the later episodes, but I know in one of the books he's experimenting with humor, and laughs at things he thinks are jokes, even if they aren't meant to be jokes, and things like sarcasm fly right over his head. That's the thing, the writers equate "no emotions" with "doesn't get jokes" and that's about as far as they take it. I mean, Data keeps a picture of Tasha Yar after she dies, but totally not for emotional reasons though, right?
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May 21, 2014 14:43
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Tiggum posted:That's the thing, the writers equate "no emotions" with "doesn't get jokes" and that's about as far as they take it. I mean, Data keeps a picture of Tasha Yar after she dies, but totally not for emotional reasons though, right? Yeah. I always figured that pre chip, he tried to emulate human emotion and feeling as much as he could. Plus, who knows, maybe his positronic brain allowed him some small amount of simulated feeling?
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May 21, 2014 14:47
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DrSnakeLaser posted:Whenever a robot or machine breaks and has its voice slow down. Watching I, Robot again recently has been driving me nuts with this. I always thought it was convenient that the I, Robots had an evil/good lighting system installed. If the robot wants to kill all humans, it glows red!
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May 21, 2014 14:51
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Data got pissed at the Borg he was fighting. I thought that was pretty cool.
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May 21, 2014 15:14
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Wild T posted:I have one that's entirely nitpicky and ridiculous, but this is the irrationally irritating moments thread. In Aliens there's a line of gunsperging about the space bullets their weapons fire and they're described as high-explosive caseless ammunition. It's meant to make them sound like a high-tech, extremely deadly round (hence the entire conversation, since they're worried about them destroying vital equipment inside a fusion reactor). They don't, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrjFuTbl_SA&t=359s The only cased weapons that get fired are Hicks' shotgun and possibly the smart guns used by Vasquez and Drake, the ammunition for which is never described. And the turrets in the director's cut, which explicitly used cased ammo.
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May 21, 2014 16:23
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DrBouvenstein posted:"How could they big an Omega 13 device" when, judging from the snippets of dialogue we heard, it was never really explained that well on the show itself? While the actors clearly had no clue what it was, the people that paid attention (the fans that help them out at the end) were able to properly theorize exactly what it did. They pieced together enough information to come to the same conclusion as the aliens, who probably started with the intended function and worked backwards until they had something that achieved it.
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May 21, 2014 16:29
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Justin Long and friends had as much access to the "historical documents" as the thermians, and they were able to build 3D maps of maintenance tunnels and poo poo. For a silly fantasy film, it's not too far of a stretch to assume that the technologically superior (albeit dense as gently caress) thermians hadn't spent just as long going over schematics shown in the episodes in order to re-create the ship bolt-by-bolt. Only, they did it for real. They flat-out admit that they have no idea what the Omega 13 actually does, but we can reasonably conclude that they built it just as accurately as the rest of the ship or even the meals they made for the crew. Give some handly-with-tools aliens with lots of tentacles the blueprints for an internal combustion engine and videos of them in action and they'd probably be able to cobble one together, but they'd have no idea what the gently caress it was for. Good god look at all those words about Galaxy Quest 
GOTTA STAY FAI has a new favorite as of 17:22 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 17:18
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Tiggum posted:That's the thing, the writers equate "no emotions" with "doesn't get jokes" and that's about as far as they take it. I mean, Data keeps a picture of Tasha Yar after she dies, but totally not for emotional reasons though, right? A lot of things can be explained as him trying to live like a human. He can understand that he had a 'special' relationship with Tasha and that keeping a picture of her would be a reasonable thing to do.
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May 21, 2014 17:22
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In The Great Gatsby, the time period it takes place in is pretty vital to the plot and themes. In the movie they went to a lot of effort to recreate the fashion, the cars, the architecture ect. So what do they do when it comes time to make the sound track to a movie that takes place in the jazz age? Fill it with rap and a couple of will.i.am songs. I wouldn't mind modern music if they bothered to make it feel like it fit the period, but instead they just grabbed some top 40 songs and crammed them in, ruining the atmosphere. Took me out of the movie each time a song was playing so pretty much the whole movie. Also Nick Carroway narrating from a mental hospital for some reason.
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May 21, 2014 17:36
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Okay it's not really irrational because I think a lot of people hate this, but the loving Wilhelm Scream! No matter how 'clever' the editors try to sneak it in or mask it, it is instantly obvious and takes me right out of the movie for a minute. It's not funny any more! Scream #3 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3vSRzkG82U&t=9s also pops up from time to time, though that just makes me chuckle as it was used in the original StarCraft.
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May 21, 2014 19:19
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That's actually the Howie Scream, but I find it to be even more annoying than the goddamn Wilhelm Scream. Dear Hollywood, It's not funny. Ever. Stop using it. Thanks.
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May 21, 2014 19:32
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LeJackal posted:StarTrek.txt Sending senior officers down to the surface of the planet or otherwise into harms way with nothing in the way of environment gear or armor. Every time. You should have a team of properly equipped expendable enlisted goons for that purpose. They should be mostly enlisted, not all officers.
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May 21, 2014 21:15
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Speaking of irrationally irritating sound effects, I've been binging through Hercules: The Legendary Journey and every time there's a baby they play this cooing sound over and over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTQXISUDe9k In that video it gets played at 5:38, 7:55, 9:03, 13:04, 14:45, 14:56 (that's two in the span of 11 seconds!), 18:38, and 21:43, and that's just half the episode.
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May 21, 2014 21:34
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Quit shooting at Godzilla with rifles you dickheads, you just saw 50 tank shells and missiles do absolutely nothing. {Spoilers) they keep loving doing it all the way to the end of the movie.
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May 21, 2014 21:48
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10 Beers posted:Yeah. I always figured that pre chip, he tried to emulate human emotion and feeling as much as he could. Plus, who knows, maybe his positronic brain allowed him some small amount of simulated feeling? There's a whole TNG episode about this called 'Measure of a Man'. They argue back and forth about what Data's weird little quirks mean, including specifically keeping Tasha's picture around. It's really good.
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May 21, 2014 22:00
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Silly Newbie posted:They don't, though: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090605/trivia?tab=gf&ref_=tt_trv_gf "Gorman states that the M41A Pulse Rifle fires 10mm explosive tipped case-less ammunition, several times throughout the film, you can clearly see casings leaving the ejection port of the Pulse Rifles." It's by far the most visible in the red-lit ventilation shaft scenes. You can see casings exiting Vasquez's pulse rifle. I don't think it's anything worth getting worked up over though, it's hard to notice unless you're looking for it.
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May 21, 2014 22:00
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Just thought of another thing that I have only recently picked up on: ADR, additional dialogue recording. The shoot gets a crappy sound or they can't re-shoot for one reason or another (budget/line changes) and they wind up doing ADR in post-production. Some movies are really obvious about it when you don't see someone's mouth move, or what they're mouthing doesn't match with the audio. More often though, is that the editor does a crap job at leveling the volume/resonance of the re-take, so it sounds like one sentence goes to a completely different environment in the next sentence. Once you catch it, it's hard not to un-hear when dialogue has been altered in a scene. e: Picked from a quick youtube search: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG4jtCram1c old bean factory has a new favorite as of 23:14 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 23:08
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The point of Spock is that he has emotion and denies it. The point of Data is that he has emotion but doesn't realize it because he expects it to mean more than it does.
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May 21, 2014 23:22
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Kung Food posted:In The Great Gatsby, the time period it takes place in is pretty vital to the plot and themes. In the movie they went to a lot of effort to recreate the fashion, the cars, the architecture ect. So what do they do when it comes time to make the sound track to a movie that takes place in the jazz age? Fill it with rap and a couple of will.i.am songs. I wouldn't mind modern music if they bothered to make it feel like it fit the period, but instead they just grabbed some top 40 songs and crammed them in, ruining the atmosphere. Took me out of the movie each time a song was playing so pretty much the whole movie. You should watch Luhrman's Romeo + Juliet, you'd love it.
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