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Quint Gets Eaten posted:I love the hell out of this movie, but I'm pretty sure that like 98% of my love is based on how awesome Sharlto Copley is as the hobo-ninja-Jesus-mercenary villain. He just seems like he's having an absolute blast with the role. He elevated the entire film from being just "enjoyable action film with a heavy-handed message" to "really loving memorable action film with a heavy-handed message." Pretty much this. I think he's the only reason this film is even worthwhile in the first place. One of my most favorite villians in a long, long time. And the reason I've watched it about 4 times over since.
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May 15, 2014 05:44
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Blomkamp knows how to film a spaceship crash better than anyone I know, but the real reason I love the film is it's I-don't-give-a-gently caress attitude to its message. Like most Dystopian Fiction our hero is fighting the system - technology (or bureaucracy) has advanced to the point where it's now running human affairs. But it's primarily an action film, so instead of any politics or philosophising we get 90 minutes of him literally shooting "the system" in the face with space-guns. This is a pretty good summation of why Elysium is loving awesome. It's a leftist propaganda piece, essentially, but it doesn't get bogged down in it; instead, it has fun with the concept. It's an action movie first and LF: The Movie second.
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May 15, 2014 06:00
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SALT CURES HAM posted:This is a pretty good summation of why Elysium is loving awesome. It's a leftist propaganda piece, essentially, but it doesn't get bogged down in it; instead, it has fun with the concept. It's an action movie first and LF: The Movie second. The "cures" meme.
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May 15, 2014 13:40
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James Hardon posted:The "cures" meme. I've got no idea what this is.
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May 15, 2014 13:42
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James Hardon posted:The "cures" meme. Penis joke.
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May 15, 2014 20:54
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Well, we all like penises of course, but I hope y'all don't mind if we move back to discussing the movie, yeah? So, obviously we agree that Elysium occurs at least 3 years after District 9, or are there nerds so myopic as to to distpute this? thought experiment: would Christopher agree with what the Max-Machina hath wrought, earning his human-name? Or would there be war and tragedy as the first movie hinted at? Blood Boils fucked around with this message at 11:20 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 10:45
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I saw this only like a month ago and already I've forgotten most of the story and the characters. Aside from Copley because he was disturbingly hilarious, but the rest of the movie felt really bland overall. I will say that Blomkamp has a way of showing gory poo poo because goddamn that shot where the grenade takes out half of Copley's head is insane. And so is the slow-mo railgunning death of that one mook.
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Jun 21, 2014 16:17
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District 9 is one of my all time favourite films. What is quite annoying is that Elysium is an almost, beat for beat re-make of that film down to motivations and action scenes.
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Jun 21, 2014 17:03
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Did the Space Jesus prophecy bits get tacked on by focus groups? I can imagine how the movie/script's initial conceit was kind of a black comedy scifi Killdozer vs Beverley Hills where a wronged schlub nobody gets a kickin' rad suit of armour and exacts his revenge on Robocop level parodies of the 1%, yet this didn't fly with demographics research who demanded a hero 'everyone' could 'root for' and instead came out incredibly bland and cliched.
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Jun 22, 2014 18:07
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Lonos Oboe posted:District 9 is one of my all time favourite films. What is quite annoying is that Elysium is an almost, beat for beat re-make of that film down to motivations and action scenes. The difference is pretty minor; one is about race, and the other about class. I like to think they occur in the same story - Christopher never came back, the prawns died out in D-10 (or still survive in D-twentywhatever), and humans figured out how to ape some of the alien space and weapon technology. Neat way to tie Sharto's characters together: Kruger is the "what-if" Wikus is cured of his non-Otherness. He didn't get returned to his wife, but had to replace the black-op-merc guy (the price of his "cure"). Cue a hundred years of degeneracy. He becomes the darkness hinted at the end of the Robocop's, that any individual assertion of identity is meaningless if you simply rejoin or condone an unjust system. Eau de MacGowan posted:Did the Space Jesus prophecy bits get tacked on by focus groups? No, but if it did, then focus groups were right and Blomkamp was wrong.
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Jun 29, 2014 00:54
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I remember when I saw this film realising they were going for a Space Jesus thing, but I felt they got so tied up in making the main character gritty and an Anti-hero that they messed up and made him into Space Judas instead. Once they had Spider immediately realise that his wealth was worthless compared to the rewards of I can accept that in this sort of story there's often no one who is perfectly good, and I think it's perfectly alright to have a protagonist who is not simply a straight hero, but when you introduce a character who floats somewhere between guerrilla and gangster as Spider did and then have him, who you might reasonably expect to realise that the plot item would destroy his business and so attempt to destroy or profit from it instead actually live up to everyone's fantasy of what they would do in that situation, Max (looked it up) as Space Jesus, or even as a hero no longer works, because there was a better, stronger person in the background who never faltered in doing the right thing. Unless Spider was Space Jesus, though I saw him as Space Paul.
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Jun 29, 2014 03:46
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Reveilled posted:Unless Spider was Space Jesus, though I saw him as Space Paul. Space Paul, 2016 Join the Revolution.
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Jun 29, 2014 04:41
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Reveilled posted:I remember when I saw this film realising they were going for a Space Jesus thing, but I felt they got so tied up in making the main character gritty and an Anti-hero that they messed up and made him into Space Judas instead. Max was always kind of conceived as a more gritty and selfish character. You have to remember that this was originally what he looked like in the concept art. He was supposed to be a straight-up cyber-vato that may or may not have been gainfully employed or still commit street crimes.   Here's him killing someone with a shotgun and feeling kinda happy about it (probably Kruger, who was to be dispatched with a shotgun blast to the face, then return as a Metal Gear in the third act)
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Jun 29, 2014 05:34
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Young Freud posted:Kruger, who was to be dispatched with a shotgun blast to the face, then return as a Metal Gear in the third act I loved this movie, but I still can't believe they were almost going to roll with that character coming back as a giant cyborg bear and that we missed out on seeing such a thing on the big screen.
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Jun 29, 2014 14:30
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Neo Rasa posted:I loved this movie, but I still can't believe they were almost going to roll with that character coming back as a giant cyborg bear and that we missed out on seeing such a thing on the big screen. Not quite. Ben Mauro's Metal Gear-like mecha and Aaron Beck's cyborg bear were just two of the options. Beck also developed the Ion Wolf concept as well, which would run around the battlefield on all fours but stand upright for more cautious work.  Also, I love that Armadyne's name in the concept art is straight-up Raytheon.
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Jun 29, 2014 15:21
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Young Freud posted:Max was always kind of conceived as a more gritty and selfish character. You have to remember that this was originally what he looked like in the concept art. He was supposed to be a straight-up cyber-vato that may or may not have been gainfully employed or still commit street crimes. Oh, I wasn't meaning like they had space Jesus originally then started making him grittier, I was really just making the observation that no matter how gritty or selfish you are to be a credible Jesus you still need to be the least bad dude, which Max definitely wasn't. As such the film's christological themes fall down a bit. It still ends up with a theme of sin and redemption, but it felt wishy-wishy a bit, like they had tried to find a medium between Max as a circumstantial bad dude and Max as Space Jesus and failed. I liked the film, but I liked Max a lot less after Spider goes from Space Saul to Space Paul.
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Jun 29, 2014 17:47
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MisterBibs posted:After all the now-immortal folks get their (symbolic, perhaps literal) pound of flesh from the folks who previously owned the places to buld more space stations and travel further? Lost forever, or set back significantly. What do you think 'money' is?
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Jun 29, 2014 19:32
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I kind of feel like Max was still supposed to be a selfish dickhead, but he's played by Matt Damon, so there's a pretty strict ceiling on how unlikeable he can be. Matt Damon's just too cool a dude.
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Jun 30, 2014 00:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Foster's acting isn't 'bad'; she's just playing a weirdo No sir, it is really bad.
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Jun 30, 2014 01:28
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I sort of wish they would stop casting that 'tier' of actors---Jody Foster, Ben Kingsley, Anthony Hopkins, etc.---in these big silly effects movies. You never seem to get a good performance out of them anyway.
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Jun 30, 2014 01:47
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Harime Nui posted:I sort of wish they would stop casting that 'tier' of actors---Jody Foster, Ben Kingsley, Anthony Hopkins, etc.---in these big silly effects movies. You never seem to get a good performance out of them anyway. this but Benedict Cumberbatch he's been a dragon and a charismatic space hispanic leader and he's been bad at both, end his reign before he ends up playing Darth Vader
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Jun 30, 2014 02:25
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Harime Nui posted:I sort of wish they would stop casting that 'tier' of actors---Jody Foster, Ben Kingsley, Anthony Hopkins, etc.---in these big silly effects movies. You never seem to get a good performance out of them anyway. Kingsley always brings it because he's so used to being in crap that it's all the same to him.
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Jun 30, 2014 04:39
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Harime Nui posted:I sort of wish they would stop casting that 'tier' of actors---Jody Foster, Ben Kingsley, Anthony Hopkins, etc.---in these big silly effects movies. You never seem to get a good performance out of them anyway. Kingsley fit the part perfectly in Iron Man.
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Jun 30, 2014 06:55
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And really, the problem with Jodie Foster is not her performance, as if she'd just half rear end it. Problem is the weird ADR.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:30
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Snowman_McK posted:I kind of feel like Max was still supposed to be a selfish dickhead, but he's played by Matt Damon, so there's a pretty strict ceiling on how unlikeable he can be. Matt Damon's just too cool a dude. In the movie that will never be, Max was to played by Ninja of Die Antwoord or Emeniem. That would likely given him that edge that Damon kinda lacked. At the same time, I think his Max worked better an everyman, and average folks can be pretty selfish.
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Jun 30, 2014 22:10
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The movie was entertaining, however some of the issues I had were: Jodie Foster played the same character as she did in The Inside Man, but with a lovely French accent. The idea that one could hack into the system, and change poo poo like "I'll just cut/paste the current president's name with my own name, and that makes me president! Right? Brilliant!" Same thing with making everyone a citizen. I will allow that the automated hospital ships attempt to go down to earth to cure everyone, because maybe it's how they are programmed, but by the time they got halfway down to Earth, someone could recall them. The Surgeon General of Elysium would just put a loving stop to it. "I did not authorize this." For all those ships to take off is not routine traffic. It would not go unnoticed. Turning Matt Damon into Space Jesus. Why? They could have left out the "whoever downloads this program dies" aspect, but this was probably the one factor that the entire film was built around since day one. Foster's death and refusal of help at the end needed some explanation, as well. What was the motivation? Tired of living forever? Did she atone for her sins at the point of dying? Afraid she would have to go to trial/jail for her actions? Would the government of Elysium strip her of her citizenship and exile her to earth with the rest of the lowlifes, and she just wouldn't be able to cope "If I cant live in paradise, I refuse to live at all" kind of thing?
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Nov 10, 2014 17:27
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Nerdfest X posted:Foster's death and refusal of help at the end needed some explanation, as well. What was the motivation? Tired of living forever? Did she atone for her sins at the point of dying? Afraid she would have to go to trial/jail for her actions? Would the government of Elysium strip her of her citizenship and exile her to earth with the rest of the lowlifes, and she just wouldn't be able to cope "If I cant live in paradise, I refuse to live at all" kind of thing? Pick one. They all work.
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Nov 10, 2014 17:31
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Sharlto's sleazy technobogan mall ninja is such a great goddamn villain. I love the idea of it being Idiocracy played straight. Agreed. It was entertaining as hell.
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Nov 10, 2014 17:36
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Hewlett posted:Pick one. They all work. I saw it as disgust at being touched or helped by a second class poor from Earth. The hatred and disdain ran so deep.
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Nov 10, 2014 17:37
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Nerdfest X posted:The movie was entertaining, however some of the issues I had were: quote:The idea that one could hack into the system, and change poo poo like "I'll just cut/paste the current president's name with my own name, and that makes me president! Right? Brilliant!" Same thing with making everyone a citizen. I will allow that the automated hospital ships attempt to go down to earth to cure everyone, because maybe it's how they are programmed, but by the time they got halfway down to Earth, someone could recall them. The Surgeon General of Elysium would just put a loving stop to it. "I did not authorize this." For all those ships to take off is not routine traffic. It would not go unnoticed. The fact that the system can be hacked is totally believable though. quote:Turning Matt Damon into Space Jesus. Why? They could have left out the "whoever downloads this program dies" aspect, but this was probably the one factor that the entire film was built around since day one. quote:Foster's death and refusal of help at the end needed some explanation, as well. What was the motivation? Tired of living forever? Did she atone for her sins at the point of dying? Afraid she would have to go to trial/jail for her actions? Would the government of Elysium strip her of her citizenship and exile her to earth with the rest of the lowlifes, and she just wouldn't be able to cope "If I cant live in paradise, I refuse to live at all" kind of thing? The first time I saw the film, I read the scene wrong, and didn't like the way it actually was when I saw it the second time. Originally I thought that Foster was refusing help because she literally didn't believe this dirty immigrent could help her, and didn't want to be touched until a robot doctor showed up. Like she had literally forgotten that humans could actually get help directly from each other, rather than help being something that is purchased. I thought it was really thematically appropriate and fit with a lot of the other things going on. When I rewatched it, it turns out it really wasn't like that at all, and it is kind of strange. I can make two guess as to her motive for dying: the first is as you said, that she is tired of living this hosed up immortality. The second is that she doesn't want to live now that her dream has crumbled.
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Nov 10, 2014 17:39
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Nerdfest X posted:Turning Matt Damon into Space Jesus. Why? They could have left out the "whoever downloads this program dies" aspect, but this was probably the one factor that the entire film was built around since day one. He's Cyborg Jesus because he quite literately does what Jesus does - Max is a criminal who willingly gives up his life in a contest with the state to save the whole world. As for the system hacking, obviously the download is permanent. The robot guards prevent the human soldiers from threatening to arrest Che, because they are all equal now, immediately and forever. I imagine that the system would reject any attempt to tamper with who is or is not a citizen. Like even if the new president is also an engineer with executive passwords and poo poo and is like "no, medical robots, stop helping others that's an order" they would just gently push him out of the way and ignore him, since medical aid is the right of all citizens. And to add to Foster's let-me-die reasons, I think she probably wanted to die by that point. All her rational justifications are for naught, her plans have failed, the poor are asserting their equality and she's got glass in her neck. edit: aw man so beaten lol
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Nov 10, 2014 17:48
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Black Bones posted:As for the system hacking, obviously the download is permanent. The robot guards prevent the human soldiers from threatening to arrest Che, because they are all equal now, immediately and forever. I imagine that the system would reject any attempt to tamper with who is or is not a citizen. Like even if the new president is also an engineer with executive passwords and poo poo and is like "no, medical robots, stop helping others that's an order" they would just gently push him out of the way and ignore him, since medical aid is the right of all citizens. It's also kind of implied that William Fitchner's character was basically the only one in a unique position to be able to hack the system, because he had both the security clearance to access it and he was one of the people that designed it (I think). So with him dead, anyone who wanted to change it would have to pull a super-wizard class hacker out of their rear end AND be able to get them into the place guarded by robot soldiers.
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Nov 10, 2014 17:57
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Snak posted:
Any system can be hacked, funds transferred, data stolen etc., but if I hack into the White House and replace "Barak Obama" with my own name, NerdfestX is NOT going to be president, no matter what Our Computer Overlords say.
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Nov 10, 2014 19:01
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Nerdfest X posted:Any system can be hacked, funds transferred, data stolen etc., but if I hack into the White House and replace "Barak Obama" with my own name, NerdfestX is NOT going to be president, no matter what Our Computer Overlords say. Because, unlike the people of Elysium, we haven't handed control of our society over to a semi-benevolent Skynet.
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Nov 10, 2014 19:26
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Nerdfest X posted:Any system can be hacked, funds transferred, data stolen etc., but if I hack into the White House and replace "Barak Obama" with my own name, NerdfestX is NOT going to be president, no matter what Our Computer Overlords say. But you could do that with voting machines.
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Nov 10, 2014 19:51
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Snak posted:But you could do that with voting machines. And Elysium's Central Core is more akin to rewriting the Constitution (along with creating a vote record for an amendment in Congress, etc.). Spider literally could have made himself President For
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Nov 11, 2014 00:28
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I bet Fitchner never designed the system to allow any kind of software or hardware method of erasing someone's citizenship, sort of destroying every single robot and computer. After all, he would do this because a) he would be revolted by the idea of being able to lose his social status, and b) the possibility that everyone could belong to Elysium is inconceivable to him.Snak posted:It's also kind of implied that William Fitchner's character was basically the only one in a unique position to be able to hack the system, because he had both the security clearance to access it and he was one of the people that designed it (I think). So with him dead, anyone who wanted to change it would have to pull a super-wizard class hacker out of their rear end AND be able to get them into the place guarded by robot soldiers. The Tea-Party sequel will have one of the technocrats who survived the grenade reanimate Kruger, and together they storm the mainframe to re-establish
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Nov 11, 2014 01:06
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An unapolagetically Ron Swanson response would be an amazing sequel
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Nov 11, 2014 01:12
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Snak posted:
Interesting aspect, I didn't make this connection the 1st time. I saw it more as a "in order to defeat my enemy, I must become my enemy" motif. Further established when the bad guy gets his own suit of armor. Also: the bad guy gets resurrected.
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Nov 11, 2014 16:55
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Nerdfest X posted:Interesting aspect, I didn't make this connection the 1st time. I saw it more as a "in order to defeat my enemy, I must become my enemy" motif. Yeah, there's not much a crucifixion metaphor, but the imagery is definitely there. Note that the exoskeleton is literally bolted into his body.
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Nov 11, 2014 18:59
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