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Is 13th Age, in the opinion of people on the internet who aren't my retarded friends, a system with "limited options"? If so, how the gently caress is that a bad thing? If not, why do people think that? Captain Walker fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 02:24
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Yes and no. With character creation and tactical combat it's a lot more limited than 4e, though that isn't always a bad thing. Depending on how you look at it there are also a lot fewer options than something more loose like Fate. Some classes are intentionally built with fewer choices, both in character creation and in play. But with backgrounds, icon dice, permission to reskin, and several improvisation based talents you actually have a lot more freedom in your character's story influence and actions in and out of combat than similar games, like all the D&Ds.
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Nov 7, 2015 02:35
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Captain Walker posted:Is 13th Age, in the opinion of people on the internet who aren't my retarded friends, a system with "limited options"? It's a statement that makes no god damned sense. Of course it has limited options, all games do. This is the kind of statement that someone usually says when what they really mean is "The game doesn't give me the options I want". The best thing to do would be to ask them to help you understand what options they feel are missing, and if those options truly are missing then find a way to make those options a reality.
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Nov 7, 2015 02:47
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Captain Walker posted:Is 13th Age, in the opinion of people on the internet who aren't my retarded friends, a system with "limited options"? What are they comparing it to?
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Nov 7, 2015 03:01
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chaos rhames posted:What are they comparing it to? Pathfinder  E: turns out that at least in one case, guy wants spells and poo poo that "affect the story outside of killing things" like the earth priestess Ernalda the Peacemaker spell in 13G. When I asked "doesn't that poo poo completely nullify my power as a GM" he legit didn't see the problem, because "a combat you can't avoid is the same as railroading". Am I dead and in hell?? Captain Walker fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 04:38
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If he wants to cast spells out of battle, he can get cantrips, wizard utility spells, or take a useful spell background and roll it all the time.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:46
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Krysmphoenix posted:If he wants to cast spells out of battle, he can get cantrips, wizard utility spells, or take a useful spell background and roll it all the time. But if you can do everything, there's no meaningful choices 
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Nov 7, 2015 04:50
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13A's Ritual Casting is "Make Things Up: The Class Feature" and I felt it covered the space for big out of combat spells fine in my game.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:50
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That sort of thing is also a perfectly good application for Icon dice.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:51
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Trying to understand it from their perspective, it's "limited options" in the sense that if you wanted to do A Thing in Pathfinder, there's almost always going to be a spell, ability or class feature that will mechanically (and therefore literally) allow you to do that. Whereas in 13th Age, there are certain things that are not tightly defined: quote:To use this talent, you must use an additional quick action to cast your spell. Then proclaim the spell’s full name, loud and proud. What do you get for your trouble? Well, you can’t be sure. Your GM will add some small bonus effect that fits the spell, or fits the way you enunciated its name this time around. Whatever the GM chooses, it should add to the storytelling power of the situation. In most cases, the bonus effects won’t precisely match up with what the spell normally accomplishes. What does it actually do? Who knows! Only the GM, and only at the moment that it's used at the table! That might not sit well with people who are used to the model of "my character sheet says exactly this, and therefore I am absolutely capable of exactly this", although if I were to guess, your friends might have a somewhat biased opinion on this, especially if Pathfinder was their first and/or only game.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:55
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All those systems work just fine for me. It's the two grogs in my group, and one grog's inseparable other half, together making fully half my potential playerbase, that disagree. Oh, none of these people have played more than a session of 13a, because I can't run with three players (something that is also apparently a fake problem I made up). Also, PublicOpinion, weren't you kicking around a thing with Doomsayer? Also also, sorry for unnecessarily using the word "retarded". I've seen that Rick and Morty bit. I should know better. Captain Walker fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 04:58
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I'm gonna go out there and say that there should be things to affect the world outside of combat, and that it doesn't nullify your power as a gm at all. It also shouldn't be limited to spellcasters. I love having things on my character sheet that just let me declare things to be true. Of course, 13th Age has those things with backgrounds and icon dice, and spellcasters can do it more with ritual casting.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:12
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Sever.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:21
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Captain Walker posted:All those systems work just fine for me. It's the two grogs in my group, and one grog's inseparable other half, together making fully half my potential playerbase, that disagree. Oh, none of these people have played more than a session of 13a, because I can't run with three players (something that is also apparently a fake problem I made up). Nothing wrong with an adventuring trio, really.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:36
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Captain Walker posted:Is 13th Age, in the opinion of people on the internet who aren't my retarded friends, a system with "limited options"? It is, in many ways. That's not strictly a bad thing though, or really an avoidable thing if you're making a system that's honest with itself. Captain Walker posted:Pathfinder What kind of situation did you put an unavoidable combat in? Maybe you and your players want different things out of the game. Covok posted:Sever. Hush, you.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:40
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Captain Walker posted:
Technically several things, but who knows if they'll happen. I keep trying to avoid having to actually do the hard parts of running a PbP.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:45
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It sounds like they want literally just Pathfinder forever. Godspeed.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:58
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Captain Walker posted:Pathfinder Give them Vance's Polysyllabic Echolocation for free. Alternately, explain to them that their characters have a lot of power over the game that isn't implicit in their character sheet. Their ability to use magic to do crazy stuff is assumed rather than spelled out in powers, and given further support through the use of backgrounds, one unique things, icon dice, and more mechanical options like Utility Spells and Vance's Polyslavic Acceleration. -Fish- fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 16:00
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As mentioned, the person in question is looking for a class with concrete mechanics defined for doing some things outside of combat, but not everything, because having access to all the wizard's utility spells means "there's no meaningful choices"  I'm taking Ironicus' advice and sticking with a three man band, because he does outrank me after all.
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Nov 7, 2015 17:36
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I think the big issue with people like that is their looking for something that's pretty hard to do well but old 3.0/3.5/PF games tried to do all the time, which is having something cool in a book represented by specific mechanics that supposedly are evocative and fun. FATE is a good counterpoint mentioned earlier where it's almost the exact opposite: you can do almost anything but can't really have that thing do more than let you re-roll/add 2 to a roll. So they want the book to be full of cool options that all have slightly to drastically different mechanical effects, combined with either not understanding game balance or not even caring about it. It's that combined with "Well we had fun with <other game> so this new game doesn't matter.". I have one vocal Pathfinder loving member of my gaming group and he just loses his poo poo when he sees a book saying "Take this feat to become <incredibly specific thing> and gain <honestly pretty vanilla bonus>!" and just gets excited when he reads the first half of the sentence.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:09
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I know the player in question and what he likes out of games - he's the guy who likes to Clever his way out of situations through witty and unconventional methods. He likes games with crunch because they give limitations - in the games I ran before I gave up pathfinder, he played a skill-buffing factotum and a vow of pacifism cleric. So, very power-gamer-y but more interested in creating an interesting gimmick with limitations. 13th Age has less mechanical "hooks" for things to do out of combat. But also, if there's a combat and they don't want to get involved, don't force it! Make them only get involved in combat when there's an actual story need for it and otherwise, let talents solve the problem instead. Don't pull out the combat system for trash mobs. Vance's Polysyllabic talent is what he's looking for, in that respect. Also, he is a total grog, but don't become a 13th Age Grog! Systems are less important than friendship, palhoncho.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:53
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Mimir posted:I know the player in question and what he likes out of games - he's the guy who likes to Clever his way out of situations through witty and unconventional methods. quote:But also, if there's a combat and they don't want to get involved, don't force it! Make them only get involved in combat when there's an actual story need for it and otherwise, let talents solve the problem instead. Don't pull out the combat system for trash mobs. Much truth in this all. Agreeing that only enemies that pose an actual threat justify pulling out the initiative fracker and battle mat. I guess I am, in fact, a 13th Age Grog, in the sense that it's my favorite d20 game and I'd rather not play anything else for d20 fantasy. Maybe 5e. But I'm all for playing other, lighter systems. I've suggested Strike! but no one else seemed interested.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:07
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Captain Walker posted:I don't necessarily mind this as a play style, but I have trouble with it as a novice GM. If I send you into a cave to fight pirates, and you instead cut the rope bridge so they can't get out, that's cool and smart but I don't know how to come back from that, especially if the pirate cave was half the session's quota of battles. Reuse the encounter later and swap around a few things (like maybe they're highwaymen instead of pirates) later. I guess I'm not sure why you have a quota of battles for a session, though, if they come up with a good way to avoid fighting then you can totally reward them for it by not forcing that fight. This has very little to do with the system though and more to do with communicating with your players.
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Nov 9, 2015 22:47
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Out of curiosity how would this license treat a video game loosely based on 13th age
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Nov 17, 2015 20:49
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Jackard posted:Out of curiosity how would this license treat a video game loosely based on 13th age The licenses only cover tabletop. If you want to do a 13th Age video game, that will have to be worked out with Pelgrane and Fire Opal -- drop Simon Rogers a line and tell him what you'd like to do.
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Nov 18, 2015 06:39
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Hey everybody. I'm feeling awesome today because I ran the Blood & Lightning adventure out of the main corebook. During the blue dragon fight the paladin was down to 3 hit points and straggling the creature's back. With a final Smite Evil she did just enough damage to drop the thing. And that is how we earned our 2nd level. Also, our party bard (who's an undead creation of the lich king) tried to give his sole healing potion to one of the guards wounded in the draconic assault on the tower. Later on during the battle vs. the transformed abomination said soldier tied the potion to an arrow to make a speedy delivery. Yeah it was GM Fiat and might have made the choice meaningless, but the bard needed it and I wanted to repay that earlier kindness somehow. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 04:55
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A backer-only update was released this morning for Nocturne/Nightfall , containing links to pdfs containing three new classes and three new races. I just have time to skim right now and don't want to get into too many specifics, but quick first impressions are that the classes seem somewhat balanced (though some bits are definitely underpowered-- try to spot the feat that gives you a +1 to disengage checks!) and pretty complicated for 13A, for good or ill. The races stay pretty simple, though they bring a little more than the races from the core book. There's also a fair amount of flavor built into the rules themselves, with hopefully more to come with framing and sidebars and whatnot. Earthorn fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 13:04
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Looks like the next organized play doc is out, Into the Underworld. At first skimming it seems pretty neat, lots of weird underdark-y stuff in it, and some less conventional non-drow-related things like bat sharks and a boss fight with the spirit pen that writes the book of creation that defines reality.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:02
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Earthorn posted:A backer-only update was released this morning for Nocturne/Nightfall , containing links to pdfs containing three new classes and three new races. I'm a contributor to this! I did the bulk of the work on the new races and I was pretty proud of how we ended up handling those. Not sure how much I'm allowed to say here, but so far I'm quite happy with the direction the project is taking, with one minor, selfish exception: I couldn't convince the team to include my Seeker. It's not a good thematic fit at all but I just want the drat thing in a more polished form than a Google Doc. One day!
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Nov 25, 2015 17:16
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At least your Seeker lives on in Oswald Bergenhoff, laconic half-orc schwarzwaldsman and gunslinger with a burning hatred for owlbears and interplanar chattel slavery. Seriously, that character got so much better when we switched him from Ranger to Seeker.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:19
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Speaking of rangers, didn't the devs say they were gonna make new types of rangers, paladins, and barbarians that would be more complicated (and hopefully scale better in champion and epic tiers) a while ago?
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Nov 27, 2015 06:39
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There's at least a new barbarian in Glorantha, though I haven't been keeping up with the playtests.
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Nov 27, 2015 06:47
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Glorantha playtest has a grip of martial minded characters. Most are either alt-classes (they share a lot with the class but have a few differences, but are otherwise similar chasis) while others are full redos that could fit more then one class. The Humakti could fit a paladin-esque character real good, for example. Smaller focus on smiting evil, higher focus on ridiculous swordplay and murdering the poo poo out of all undead forever. Sadly none that I've seen are kinda ranger-y.
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Nov 27, 2015 13:15
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Speaking of Glorantha, how does the earth priestess play?
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Nov 27, 2015 19:32
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SunAndSpring posted:Speaking of rangers, didn't the devs say they were gonna make new types of rangers, paladins, and barbarians that would be more complicated (and hopefully scale better in champion and epic tiers) a while ago? Fire Opal does have a series of player-focused products planned that will provide more options for classes -- probably tackling three classes per book. That's all there is to say about the project at this stage. I suspect we'll start work after Glorantha's out the door, so Rob can be fully engaged.
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Nov 29, 2015 19:02
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waderockett posted:Fire Opal does have a series of player-focused products planned that will provide more options for classes -- probably tackling three classes per book. That's all there is to say about the project at this stage. I suspect we'll start work after Glorantha's out the door, so Rob can be fully engaged. Cool. I like the Glorantha characters a lot, so hopefully the poor paladin and ranger will get some good options first because they don't scale well into the upper tiers at all. Anyway, I've been working on some conversions from Planescape to 13th Age recently. I've started with races as that's basically the first step in character creation usually, and I'm wondering how I should handle the Rogue Modron's old quirk that they roll initiative only once when they're created and then keep that value forever. Should I keep it like that, make it every full rest or level, or just let the GM and players hash it out? SunAndSpring fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 04:55
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Every full heal-up seems to me that it would be long enough for a bad one to be flavorfully inconvenient but short enough to not be worth griping about.
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Nov 30, 2015 05:08
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PublicOpinion posted:Every full heal-up seems to me that it would be long enough for a bad one to be flavorfully inconvenient but short enough to not be worth griping about. Yeah I figured. I'll just leave the old way there as an option if someone's in the old-school mood. Anyway, I'm figuring I'll make it so that faction membership (and the associated powers that go with it) is something you can start with assuming you've got at least one Positive or Conflicted relationship die with your faction (as they'll be standing in for the Icons), but violating the tenets of your faction will disable those abilities until next full heal. So if some poor Athar namer has to accept healing from the cleric of all people, he loses his resistance to divine magic until he can take a siesta and tip his fedora for a while.
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Nov 30, 2015 05:23
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SunAndSpring posted:Anyway, I've been working on some conversions from Planescape to 13th Age recently. I've been considering starting up a Planescape game using 13th Age, since Icon rolls seemed like a really good way to get the Factions more involved into the day-to-day mechanics of the game, and I'd certainly be interested in reading conversions of planescape races or faction mechanics if you'd be comfortable putting them up online? (also gently caress yeah Planescape, what a rad setting, was my introduction to RPGs)
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Nov 30, 2015 08:39
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Ambi posted:I've been considering starting up a Planescape game using 13th Age, since Icon rolls seemed like a really good way to get the Factions more involved into the day-to-day mechanics of the game, and I'd certainly be interested in reading conversions of planescape races or faction mechanics if you'd be comfortable putting them up online? (also gently caress yeah Planescape, what a rad setting, was my introduction to RPGs) I'll probably post a Google doc up sometime this week with my first draft of it all.
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Nov 30, 2015 17:58
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