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Updated the thread tag to Treasure due to shadowy collector cabal's wishes   So what can I play in eternal formats? The full list is here, but for modern it's basically "everything with the new face." (the exceptions being cards with the new face that haven't been printed since Eigth edition, like Tainted Field from the new Duel Deck or Judge Promos.) Legacy is "mostly everything that's not restricted in But what cards should I play? http://www.metamox.com/staples.php has a list of the top cards being played in each format right now Wait, that card is how much now? There's no getting around it, Eternal formats are expensive, and unlike legacy, in Modern you can't sneak wins and take 8th place using a $60 burn deck - the format is completely dependent on fetches and the big-money cards to win. Expect to drop in the neighborhood of $200-300 on a deck not counting its manabase, and another $500 on the manabase itself. On the upside, nothing in Modern is forbidden from being reprinted, so you get bonus volatility that doesn't exist in legacy. Still, if previous reprints have taught us anything, it's that after an initial dip as the available stock expands, supply will far outstrip demand and prices will slingshot past their old highs. I've found BidWicket immensely easier/cheaper to get cards from, especially common/uncommon staples. You can comparison shop and get things on the cheap, just be aware that paying a few cents more per card can make financial sense on shipping. White Lion and Strike Zone are consistently cheap and great. Also, Gixen is free and lets you snipe if you want to try your luck with eBay; it's a fairly simple interface and can save you beaucoups dollars. This is stupid, I don't wanna pay that much! That's not a question, Janet, but here's the thing: It's an eternal format, so once you buy your manabase, you're pretty much set, and you'll be able to trade out fetches/duals into decks with new pieces when you want to change things up. There's also several staples like Path to Exile that, while $20 for a playset of uncommons, are usable across several decks forever. And since the cards aren't really set to get cheaper any time soon, Modern is the safest place to keep your money this side of a Mox in terms of being able to cash out and buy a car/semester of classes a few years down the road. Where can I play Modern and Legacy? Odds are your friendly local gaming store has Modern nights on a non-Friday night, like Wednesday. If not, ask about forming one. Modern is also ¼ of the tournament season. Legacy is loving crazy! It sure is! The most broken yet fun decks are all played in Legacy. For example, quote:Dredge is like one of those sea creatures that eats with its butt. Wholly natural, but un-loving-believable until you see it in action for yourself Seriously, look at this poo poo: code:Finally, please don't get into #mtgfinance talk about spec targets. 
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May 17, 2014 06:58
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You forgot about Vintage 
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May 17, 2014 07:01
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Alright I came back from a Modern FNM, only 5 others for it but it was pretty fun, had my WBR deck that I improved so far and went 3-0. Here is my decklist, and here's what happened. Match 1: Budget Mono G Tron Game 1: Turn 4 Emrakul via Quicksilver Amulet.  Onto Game 2! I sideboarded 2 Slaughter Games and 3 Stony Silence in, taking 3 Lingering Souls and the Hero of Bladeholds outGame 2: I play Stony Silence on Turn 2 while Thoughtseizing his Pathrazer of Ulamog on Turn 3, then Slaughter Games for Emrakul taking his only two copies out of his hand and check out his deck. He has It That Betrays and Blightsteel Colossus which I need to keep in mind. 3 Dark Confidants go to the grill and I get lucky with flipping lands over and occasionally Bolts, and Chandra is 0ing and occasionally +1ing. He plays All is Dust, after that I play Blood Baron then Chandra the following turn. When he's nearly dead he cheats out Blightsteel with a topdecked Quicksilver Amulet, and Chandra helps Baron go for the throat. No sideboard changes. Game 3: He gets mana screwed, but starts stabilizing and nearly turns the game around, I eek out the last points of damage by Ghost Quartering my own Temple for a Plains so I can Helix him for lethal. Pretty good budget deck he had although he wanted to get all foil copies of everything Eldrazi related.  Match 2: RB Vampires. Nothing to majorly note during this match since I mostly kill his dudes and kill him with my dudes. Repeat for the second game. Match 3: UW Control Game 1: He didn't have Colonades or Cryptics so I was spared from a chokehold beating, along with taking counters out of his hand with T1 Inquisition and T2 Thoughtseize - I didn't bother taking a Restoration Angel since he had multiples, was it a bad choice I made by not doing that? I usually had to bait out his counterspells or him flashing in Restoration Angel to block some of my dudes. Turn 5 I do this and land a Blood Baron and seal the game. I take out my Bobs for two Batterskulls and two Combusts. Game 2: I keep a hand with Inquisition, Thoughtseize, Helix and Lingering Souls, and my opponent goes first while mulliganing down to 6. He lands a Pithing Needle naming Liliana of the Veil, I get a Mana Leak out of his hand with Inquisition, and he kept a bold 2 lander. He stumbles on lands, so when I Thoughtseize him on my turn 2 he Remands it. I still Thoughtseize him on turn 3 and take Path out of his hand, since he only had Verdict, 2 Resto Angel and another Pithing Needle (I might be forgetting a card here), and I start putting Spirit tokens on my board. He stumbles for the few next turns, my spirits putting him down to 16, and during these turns my hand gets loaded with Helices and Bolts. He Verdicts, and during his EOT I bolt him 3 times. During my turn, I flashback Lingering Souls, and say go. He plays a land (5 now) and passes. I go to combat, and in my error I just show him the remaining Bolts and Helices in my hand (2) forgetting that he's a control deck (  ) and he happens to path both. We have to play it out normally though I play L Bolt, and he Surgically extracts Helix since without that I don't get the kill (I forgot what made me have only 1 Red source left untapped). He goes to 4, and it's topdeck mode for me. I get out Batterskull and play it, he Remands it, then on his turn he plays Pithing Needle naming Batterskull (maybe he confused the Living Weapon trigger to be an activated ability?), then I topdeck Chandra and ping him, he passes and says go, I play Baron and I win the game.So far I still need to learn how to play the deck more especially around stuff like Scapeshift, Tarmo Twin and Melira Pod, but the Pod and Scapeshift player weren't at the LGS today. I'm really enjoying the deck so far, it's pretty fun! also i had grim lavamancers before but replaced them with blood barons because i felt like going big or going home EDIT: I also got Godsend and Extinguish All Hope in my two prize packs, which is pretty neato. neetengie fucked around with this message at 08:01 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 07:50
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Why is there a Tibalt in the gif in the OP?
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May 17, 2014 08:08
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Elyv posted:Why is there a Tibalt in the gif in the OP? It's like the diamond in the rough, except the opposite in every regard.
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May 17, 2014 08:12
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Man, I know nothing about vintage but vintage masters is making me want to have Fastbond and Courser of Kruphix out so I can play every land in my deck in one turn.
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May 17, 2014 11:14
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No joke, I had a random Deckbox user initialize a trade with me and the only card they wanted was my copy of Tibalt They canceled it an hour later but I still laughed. Also, re-posting my Modern Goblins list from the end of the previous thread- Deck: Modern "Goblins"  //Lands 4 Contested War Zone 14 Mountain //Spells 4 Goblin Grenade 4 Kuldotha Rebirth 4 Mox Opal //Creatures 4 Goblin Arsonist 4 Goblin Bushwhacker 2 Goblin Chieftain 4 Goblin Guide 4 Legion Loyalist 4 Memnite 4 Ornithopter 4 Signal Pest //Sideboard 3 Grafdigger's Cage 3 Lightning Bolt 3 Shattering Spree 1 Goblin Chieftain 2 Magus of the Moon 3 Reforge the Soul  Display deck statisticsYes I know it's a half-ripoff of Affinity, but until we get Goblins like Ringleader, Piledriver and Matron in Modern the ultrafast beatdown is probably the way to go with them.
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May 17, 2014 17:41
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C-Euro posted:Deck: Modern "Goblins" I really like this decklist, even though I can't build it because I'm not shelling out 200 bucks for Mox Opals. You could see Affinity morphing into this if cards like Cranial Plating get banned.
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May 17, 2014 17:45
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This looks like the old standard Kuldotha Red deck transported to Modern. Is that about right?
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May 17, 2014 20:00
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AgentSythe posted:You forgot about Vintage So did everyone else.
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May 17, 2014 22:08
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Elyv posted:This looks like the old standard Kuldotha Red deck transported to Modern. Is that about right? On the one hand I don't know what that is, but on the other hand the mainboard was mostly someone else's creation so maybe?
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May 17, 2014 23:13
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Someone repost that amulet of vigor deck from the last thread so I can copy it to my deckbox and start looking for the pieces I don't already have.
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May 17, 2014 23:37
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C-Euro posted:On the one hand I don't know what that is, but on the other hand the mainboard was mostly someone else's creation so maybe? It looked something like this, it had a lot of hype when Mirrodin Besieged came out but never really did anything.
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May 17, 2014 23:50
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Someone repost that amulet of vigor deck from the last thread so I can copy it to my deckbox and start looking for the pieces I don't already have. Actually, you can find it in the Brewhaus: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3572508&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=101#post429524933
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May 17, 2014 23:50
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Elyv posted:It looked something like this, it had a lot of hype when Mirrodin Besieged came out but never really did anything. I beat a guy in a nationals qualifier on turn 2 using k-red, so I have fond memories of that bad deck.
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May 18, 2014 00:01
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lockdar posted:Actually, you can find it in the Brewhaus: Thanks, got my threads mixed up.
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May 18, 2014 00:05
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So I tried out my new modern Venser Control deck at FNM this week. It's not exactly finished, as I desperately need four Leylines of Sanctity in sideboard for burn and hand disruption decks as well as artifact removal for Torpor Orbs which nobody seems to be running, but it did well enough that I'm happy with it. I threw it together because I was tired of getting killed by aggro decks, and I wanted to run Ensnaring Bridge mainboard. The idea is obvious; lock down their board with ensnaring bridge, venser, and stonehorn dignitary, then gain advantage either through blade splicers, venser's emblem or restoration angels. The Bridges are fun, because you can blink them with Venser to attack, then they come back into play at the end of your turn. Match 1 I played against Melira Pod. The player is pretty good, and has won our modern FNM for the last couple of weeks, but he's a very slow and deliberate player with a rather high opinion of himself. I have nothing against the guy personally, but he can be frustrating to play against. Game 1 he beat me up with early creatures but I countered his pods while he was figuring out what the hell I was playing. The Venser-Stonehorn lock held him off long enough for me to get out 2 Venser emblems and exile a bunch of stuff, so he scooped it up. Game 2 I landed turn 2 Stony Silence from the sideboard the turn after he played his Pod. He eventually managed to find a Harmonic Sliver, but by then he was facing down an army of Golem tokens. A timely -1 from Venser (which everybody seems to forget about) finished him off. The store owner was so excited that I won he gave me a free pack.  2nd Round I played against a Jund deck heavy on hand disruption. The deck is relatively robust to this strategy in the short-term, as there are a lot of redundant effects, but Liliana was difficult. Game 1 I Verdicted his creatures to draw out the game, but he landed a Liliana while I was tapped out and I had no answers. Game 2 was very similar, and I lost pretty handily. I played him a few more times just to practice the deck, and I feel like if I had the Leylines sideboard I would have had a much better shot at this matchup, but as it stands it's not a good one for me. 3rd Round I was up against a tempo twin build. Game 1 we had a long and drawn out counter-filled match. Swan song is amazing against Cryptic Command, but a top-decked Path to Exile on my stonehorn let his goyf swing in for lethal. Game 2 I took a risk and tapped out on my fourth turn, reasoning that he hadn't used any card draw or digging to get the combo. I reasoned wrong. 4th Round I played a pretty neat Tribal Flames zoo build, and I was excited to see my deck go up against a super aggressive strategy. Game 1 I was on the draw, and he smacked me down to 1 life before I landed a stonehorn-venser combo. I had counters in hand while I started blinking blade splicers with restoration angels and eventually he scooped when I countered two Tribal Flames in a row. Game 2 he knocked me down to five before I verdicted, and a tribal flames finished me off while I was tapped out. Game 3 Wall of Omens did so much work it was ridiculous. Two of them out on turn 3 really helped me out, and I landed a Blade Splicer and Venser by turn 5. My first strike wall of recurring golems was too much for his Wild Nacatls and Loam Lions. All in all, it's a fun deck that could use a bit of work. Ensnaring bridge is a pretty good back-up stall tactic, but I'm sad I didn't see more aggro. I played against Goblins and did pretty well after the tournament as long as I had a 2-drop creature to block early pressure. I'm now running no cloudshifts and a 2-2 split of Omenspeaker and Wall of Omens, as the wall goes against the ensnaring bridge strategy. Swan song is a superstar in the deck, and I may run all four mainboard rather than the singleton Into the Roil. I desperately need the leylines and maybe three Grand Abolishers sideboard, though. If anybody has suggestions, I'd love to hear them!
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May 18, 2014 20:09
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Our large-ish weekly modern event at Card Kingdom has been taken down two weeks in a row by a guy playing "just some zombie devotion deck I threw together." Played against him, he's running stuff like singleton(!) Gravecrawler, Geralf's Messenger, Mortician Beetle, Nykthos, a Phyrexian Obliterator or two and some Bloodghasts. It's pretty but it works because I guess no one but me plays Grafdigger's Cage?
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May 18, 2014 20:21
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Hobojim posted:So I tried out my new modern Venser Control deck at FNM this week. It's not exactly finished, as I desperately need four Leylines of Sanctity in sideboard for burn and hand disruption decks as well as artifact removal for Torpor Orbs which nobody seems to be running, but it did well enough that I'm happy with it. I threw it together because I was tired of getting killed by aggro decks, and I wanted to run Ensnaring Bridge mainboard. Singleton Cloudshift and Into the Roil seem a little lonesome, could you drop one and go to two copies of the other? Also, would Deadeye Navigator be too slow for this deck? I know it's an absolute house in EDH for abusing ETB triggers, but in this deck it seems less important to flicker a guy multiple times a turn which is where Deadeye really shines.
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May 18, 2014 20:26
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New thread, so I'll repost the Breakfast Burrito primer here. The deck linked in the OP is out of date, please change it to the current build with the Mimeoplasm win condition. Introduction Breakfast Burrito is a Legacy combo deck that wins games on turn 1 more frequently than anything else in the format. It's ideal if you like crushing victory, disappointing defeat, and a long break between your matches at a tournament. Playing the deck means understanding which hands to keep and how to survive various types of disruption. Part 1 of this primer explains how the combo works, Part 2 discusses why I chose this win condition, Part 3 discusses various builds and sideboarding, and Part 4 goes into detail on how to play. Understand the best deck for your metagame before you begin playtesting. Part 1: How the Combo Works Here is my current build of Breakfast Burrito tuned for the Magic Online metagame. The Combo: 4 Balustrade Spy 4 Undercity Informer 3 Narcomoeba 2 Bridge from Below 2 Cabal Therapy 1 Dread Return 1 The Mimeoplasm 1 Triskelion 1 Lord of Extinction Mana Production: 4 Lotus Petal 4 Chrome Mox 4 Elvish Spirit Guide 4 Simian Spirit Guide 4 Summoner's Pact Mana Improvement: 4 Dark Ritual 4 Cabal Ritual 4 Manamorphose 2 Tinder Wall 2 Grim Monolith 1 Wild Cantor Protection: 4 Pact of Negation Sideboard: 1 Giant Solifuge 1 Narcomoeba 1 Serra Avatar 4 Leyline of Sanctity 4 Chancellor of the Annex 4 Leyline of the Void This is a combo deck with no lands and cards from all five colours. The key combo piece is either Undercity Informer or Balustrade Spy. Use your fast mana to get 3B as soon as possible, play one of these creatures and put your library into your graveyard. Put three Narcomoeba into play, flashback Cabal Therapy to discard any win conditions still in your hand or force your opponent to discard counterspells, and use Dread Return to reanimate the "win". The current win condition is to reanimate The Mimeoplasm, exiling Triskelion and Lord of Extinction, for a creature that can shoot the opponent to death with its 50 or more +1/+1 counters. A mulligan decision for this deck begins by checking whether you can win immediately. Any hand with a grinder (Balustrade Spy or Undercity Informer) that can reach 3B is keepable; hands with a grinder and almost that much mana are fine. You'll need Dread Return, Cabal Therapy, and the three creatures in your graveyard eventually, so you can't try to go off with two of those in your hand. Extra mana to cast Cabal Therapy from your hand is great, but don't go off a turn later just to cast the Therapy. Pact of Negation is relevant against Force of Will decks, but you should not mulligan a turn-1 win because it has no protection. When looking at hands of 5 or less you should be less choosy, but it's better to have a grinder and a small mana deficit than enough mana and no grinder. Don't try to win with a hardcast Lord of Extinction unless you are certain this play is safe against your opponent. Your goal is to reach 3B mana and cast a grinder to begin the combo. Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, either Spirit Guide, or Summoner's Pact can begin this mana chain. Summoner's Pact can find Elvish Spirit Guide for a free G or Wild Cantor to turn green or red mana into black. In addition to 20 cards that can produce mana, 12 cards produce additional mana to reach 3B. Manamorphose should always be used to produce BG, unless you have a Cabal Therapy and enough extra rituals to cast it before going off. When exiling cards to Chrome Mox, never exile your Wild Cantor, Dread Return, or other win condition. If you have extra mana to Cabal Therapy, name Force of Will against an unknown deck. Before your opponent's first turn, Force of Will and Surgical Extraction are the only widely-played cards that can interact with Breakfast Burrito. If your opponent has an island in play, try to play around Daze by having an extra mana to produce if necessary, but Force of Will is still your primary concern. The two Bridge from Below allow you to win with two creatures by flashing back Cabal Therapy, and adds resilience against Lightning Bolt trying to kill your guys. With this sideboard, bring in the Giant Solifuge every time to beat opponents who may side in Leyline of Sanctity. Chancellor of the Annex is best against an opponent that will try to bring in any graveyard hate that costs more than zero mana. Leyline of Sanctity is to disrupt opponents with discard spells, and Pact of Negation stays in against counterspells. . Bring in Serra Avatar, Angel of Glory's Rise, and Azami against Show and Tell; you can drop Balustrade Spy against SnT and survive your next draw step, and if Serra Avatar happens to be in your hand it attacks before Griselbrand or Emrakul. Remove at most 2 Grim Monolith and 2 Tinder Wall from the fundamental build of the deck. Use both Giant Solifuge and Triskelion if your opponent has Elephant Grass as well as Leyline of Sanctity. Part 2: Various Win Conditions There are no bulletproof win conditions for this deck. Every build is vulnerable to multiple copies of Swords to Plowshares because they can simply exile your Narcomoebas, but the build with 2 Bridge from Below and 3 Narcomoeba is safer against other removal. Here are five possible win conditions, ranked from best to worst: The Mimeoplasm, Lord of Extinction, Triskelion/Giant Solifuge Underworld Cerberus, Laboratory Maniac, Street Wraith Angel of Glory's Rise, Azami Lady of Scrolls, Laboratory Maniac Karmic Guide, Kiki-jiki Mirror Breaker, Zealous Conscripts Sutured Ghoul, Dragon's Breath Angel of Glory's Rise, Fiend Hunter Here's a chart of obstacles that each variant can win through: 1 removal spell 2 removal spells Eldrazi/Progenitus Moat effects Opponent has shroud Opponent has shroud and removal Underworld Cerberus W W W W W L The Mimeoplasm W W W W L L Angel, 3 cards W L W W W W Karmic Guide L L W W W L Sutured Ghoul L L W L W L Angel, 2 cards L L L W L L The new Underworld Cerberus win condition can beat removal spells with Cabal Therapy, and if the opponent still has one removal spell, waiting until the next draw step and cycling Street Wraith in response to removal targeting Lab Maniac. It is very vulnerable to an opponent running Swords to Plowshares and Leyline of Sanctity, but very few decks run both of these cards. If someone in your local metagame has removal spells in the maindeck or sideboard and Leyline of Sanctity in their sideboard, I recommend using The Mimeoplasm as your win condition. The Underworld Cerberus build is slightly more consistent because Street Wraith can be cycled out of the opening hand and Laboratory Maniac doesn't need to be discarded to go off. With the new card Spirit of the Labyrinth seeing some play, I've decided to go back to the Mimeoplasm win condition as the official recommended one. Whether you choose that one or Cerberus, be sure you practice enough with it to understand the differences between playing the two. A Triskelion with 50 +1/+1 counters wins against anything except certain enchantments (Leyline of Sanctity, Solitary Confinement) that rarely see maindeck play. After the first game I may side out Triskelion for Giant Solifuge, causing my opponent's 4 Leyline of Sanctity to become virtually blank cards. This build also has the rare chance of winning by hardcasting The Mimeoplasm or Lord of Extinction, something which never happens in an Angel of Glory's Rise build. The Angel of Glory's Rise, Azami, Laboratory Maniac win condition is popular because it doesn't require any interaction with the opponent. Azami taps to draw a card, and if the opponent tries to kill Laboratory Maniac, he draws another card in response. At this point it loses to a second removal spell, so this combo is weaker in the games that you can't go off immediately. Because many Legacy decks have cheap removal and no maindecks Leyline of Sanctity, I believe this win condition is slightly worse than The Mimeoplasm. The Karmic Guide win condition involves bringing Karmic Guide, then Kiki-Jiki, and cloning Karmic Guide to bring back Zealous Conscripts and make an infinite number of hasty 3/3 Humans. It can grab an Elephant Grass or Moat and win where other attacking strategies couldn't. However, it is easily disrupted and I strongly recommend against it. Some players have proposed using Sutured Ghoul and Dragon Breath for an attack with a 30/30 Haste, Trample creature. Unlike Giant Solifuge this monster does not have Shroud, so it cannot safely win the game. A two-card combo is slightly more likely to go off, but the ease of disruption makes it too risky to play. Angel of Glory's Rise alongside Fiend Hunter makes a complicated combo to empty your opponent's library. When the Angel returns all Humans from your graveyard to play, this includes Fiend Hunter, 4 Undercity Informer and 1 Wild Cantor. Exile the Angel with Fiend Hunter and then sacrifice him to Undercity Informer to mill your opponent a bit. Repeat until your opponent has no cards in their library. Unfortunately this combo loses to a single removal spell, or the mere presence of an Eldrazi anywhere in your opponent's deck. Don't play it. Part 3: Various Builds There are notable absences from my recommended decklist, such as: 0 Gitaxian Probe 0 Living Wish 0 Lion's Eye Diamond 0 Chancellor of the Tangle Mathematically speaking, a build with Gitaxian Probe and Street Wraith is more likely to win from any given hand of 7 cards. However, these cards do not provide relevant information for a mulligan decision. Consider the following hand: Balustrade Spy Lotus Petal The Mimeo plasm Triskelion Gitaxian Probe Gitaxian Probe Street Wraith The "free" cards provide no information about whether we should mulligan this hand. Our next three draws might include mana, or might give us a third win condition (forcing us to discard down to 7 just to be able to combo off). My goldfish testing found that "Cycling: 2 life" muddies mulligan decisions more than it enables fast wins. Looking at our opponent's hand isn't very useful, because if we see a Force of Will, we lose anyway, and nothing changes. The Underworld Cerberus kill has a single Street Wraith as part of its win condition. This Street Wraith replaces an essentially dead card like Lord of Extinction, so it's better than nothing even though it's worse than more ramp effects. Living Wish and Lion's Eye Diamond may be combined in a build that has a better chance of finding a grinder. The problem is that either of these cards is weak on its own, and you rarely have 6 mana to Living Wish for a grinder and win. A Living Wish build can only have 7 grinders in the maindeck, and my testing shows that this tradeoff is not worth the access to Living Wish. Chancellor of the Tangle has the problem of requiring an immediate win when this deck often wins on the second turn. A hand with a grinder and 3 mana is perfectly keepable, but a 3-mana hand with Chancellor of the Tangle is bad. Tinder Wall and Grim Monolith are not ideal because they produce the wrong kind of mana in multiples, but they are still better than Chancellor of the Tangle. Sideboarding The sideboard for this deck is a difficult decision, because the core of the deck requires a no-land build. I don't think Nature's Claim or other removal is worth trying against graveyard hate, in my experience the chance that I have the spare mana is too low. Here are two interesting alternative win conditions: 4 Dark Depths 4 Vampire Hexmage 4 Serum Powder 3 Wild Cantor 4 Goblin Charbelcher 4 Lion's Eye Diamond 4 Serum Powder 2 Grim Monolith 1 Serra Avatar I prefer to protect the core of my combo, but you may try one of these combinations in certain metagames. The alternate win conditions are much less likely to go off on the first turn, and the Dark Depths combo exists, but if everyone plays too much graveyard hate to win games 2 or 3 you can try an alternative plan. Here's a card-by-card breakdown of my sideboard: 1 Giant Solifuge I side this in to replace Triskelion. I've often had an opponent smugly drop Leyline of Sanctity and immediately die to my 59/56 trampling creature. 1 Narcomoeba In case your opponent has many exile-based removal spells, you can bring in an extra Narcomoeba to avoid the problem of getting 2 exiled with Swords to Plowshares (or 1 exiled and 1 in your hand) and finding yourself unable to win. 1 Serra Avatar Side in this card against Show and Tell decks. If it's in your library, you can safely land an uncounterable Balustrade Spy off Show and Tell and mill yourself to 1 card left. If it's in your hand, your opponent is forced to block the 20/20 Serra Avatar or die, so it removes their Emrakul or Griselbrand. I used to have Worldspine Wurm in this position, but with Street Wraith gone there is no way this deck has a lower life total than Show and Tell. 4 Leyline of the Void Dredge decks have heavy Cabal Therapy disruption and speed, while Reanimator has good disruption, so we play Leyline to help those matchups. It isn't necessary to mulligan for the Leyline. Choose a hand that either cripples the opponent or wins the game in a hurry. 4 Chancellor of the Annex Some decks that can't interact with us normally bring in Grafdigger's Cage or Rest in Peace to disrupt our combo, bring this in to slow them down. If your metagame has a lot of counterspells and discard, play this in the main instead of Pact of Negation. 4 Leyline of Sanctity Use this against decks with discard spells like Thoughtseize and Hymn to Tourach. Against decks with discard and counterspells, remove 2 Tinder Wall and 2 Grim Monolith to run maximum disruption. If your metagame has extremely heavy discard, play this instead of Pact of Negation in the main. Part 4: Advanced Play Taking a mulligan decision is most of the game for this deck. If you have a Balustrade Spy or Undercity Informer (a "burrito"), look at your hand and plan out a line of play that can win the game. If you can win the game on the first turn, or reasonably expect to draw a card that lets you do that, keep the hand. If you know your opponent's decklist, take into account cards like Force of Will, Stifle, Counterspell, Thoughtseize, Gaddock Teeg, and so on. The best plan against Force of Will is to run your combo into it and hope they don't have it, but don't give the opponent time to Brainstorm and hope to find it. Against other cards, weigh the chance of being disrupted by your opponent versus the chance of taking a mulligan to a faster hand. Calculating your chance of drawing a certain card is a decision that should also be made, usually, in the mulligan stage of the game. If you're one card short of going off, it's often correct to keep a hand and hope to draw that card. A good approximation for the percent chance of drawing a card is to double the number of that card left in your deck and subtract 1/18th of the new number. When there are 52 cards left, double the number and subtract 1/24th of the new number. When there are 51 cards left, double the number and subtract 1/50th, and when there are 50 cards left simply double the number. Doing long division by hand is discouraged at Magic tournaments. Here's a table of types of cards you might need to go off, and how many are in the deck. Remember to subtract any copies existing in your hand before making calculations. Fast mana sources: 20 Green fast mana: 8 (from Pact) Red fast mana: 4 Lotus Petal: 4 Chrome Mox: 4 Add mana: 32 Dark Ritual: 4 Cabal Ritual: 4 Tinder Wall: 2 Grim Monolith: 2 Fix mana: 17 Manamorphose: 4 Wild Cantor: 5 (from Pact) Lotus Petal: 4 Chrome Mox: 4 Grinder: 8 Chrome Mox imprint: 50 Lotus Petal: 4 Exiles to Mox: 46 Playing the deck is a matter of trying to run out the combo as quickly as possible, and every game will end almost exactly the same way. If it's possible, cast a Cabal Therapy targetting your opponent before casting the main combo piece, but that's usually not possible. Name the card most likely to disrupt your combo, which against an unknown deck will be Force of Will. Look at your opponent's hand to figure out what deck they're playing. Avoid casting Summoner's Pact when it isn't necessary, as this will backfire lethally if a later spell gets countered. Remember that it can find Elvish Spirit Guide to get mana, Tinder Wall to turn G into RR, or Wild Cantor to turn R/G into any colour. The current build of the deck has no red Rituals, so Manamorphose should usually produce one black and one green mana. If an opponent plays a seriously disruptive card like Gaddock Teeg or Rest in Peace, this deck has no permanent removal. That's why it's important to race these cards rather than trying to outplay them. If your opponent is unfamiliar with your deck, you may get a chance to go off when they leave an opening, but don't count on it. Against an opponent with no removal, you can play an Undercity Informer with a Chrome Mox in play, and then activate his ability during your main phase on the next turn. Against an unknown deck this is not advisable, as they might have a removal spell. There many subtle tricks you can use to try and make an opponent counter an unimportant spell or to save yourself from casting a Pact when unnecessary. At this point, the best thing you can do is shuffle up the deck and playtest. Addendum: Burrito on a Budget This deck costs roughly $250 to assemble, making it one of the cheaper Legacy decks. If you'd like to make it even less expensive, you can safely make the following changes: -2 Grim Monolith +2 Tinder Wall Sideboard -4 Leyline of Sanctity +4 Faerie Macabre These changes will save $80, at the cost of some consistency and a weaker matchup against discard and combo decks. You can run the deck with 4 Chancellor of the Tangle instead of Chrome Mox, but I guarantee that it will be much weaker and this should only be a stopgap while you plan to buy the 4 Chrome Mox soon.
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May 18, 2014 20:49
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Everblight posted:Seriously, look at this poo poo: This looks ridiculously cool, but why does it play Leyline of the Meek and Leyline of Lifeforce over Leyline of Lighting? It does have creatures in the sideboard, but I'd think Leyline of Lightning would be more useful.
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May 18, 2014 20:52
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Hey, why does the deck now run the Mimeoplasm wincon instead of Cerberus now? the primer still has the run down on why Cerberus was the pick...
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May 18, 2014 20:54
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:This looks ridiculously cool, but why does it play Leyline of the Meek and Leyline of Lifeforce over Leyline of Lighting? It does have creatures in the sideboard, but I'd think Leyline of Lightning would be more useful. Meek seems more castable if you happen to draw it later. Not sure about Lifeforce.
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May 18, 2014 20:54
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mehall posted:Hey, why does the deck now run the Mimeoplasm wincon instead of Cerberus now? the primer still has the run down on why Cerberus was the pick... Chamale states it in the new primer, it's because of Spirit of the Labyrinth, but you can choose between Mimeoplasm or Cerberus if you know how to play them. edit: I like using mimeoplasm because i have more fun with it really
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May 18, 2014 21:11
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C-Euro posted:Singleton Cloudshift and Into the Roil seem a little lonesome, could you drop one and go to two copies of the other? Cloudshift started as a three-of, but I took two out in favor of the Remands. It just doesn't do enough unless in the right circumstances. It can be a blowout to accelerate the splicer attack, but it just wasn't that good and more often than not was a dead card in hand. Into the Roil is a pet card of mine that I have a tendency to throw one-of in mainboard and more in side if there's room, just because it's so versatile but not generally necessary. I like having one out that I can pretend I'll draw when I need it but never do. You're right, though. I should probably take out the one Cloudshift for either more counter magic or the second Into the Roil. Probably the fourth Swan Song. I thought about Deadeye, but yeah, he's too slow. You really need to survive the early game against aggro, and a six-drop would just hurt your chances.
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May 18, 2014 21:44
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Does pauper go here? Do we have a pauper thread? I've been playing Familiar Combo And man is this deck fun. Its got really explosive draws, some good redundancy and ability to play around hate and I have been doing really good with it in the practice rooms. The only problem is that I have no idea how I could ever do a tournament with it. Most of my opponents have been nice enough to scoop when I get the combo out, but one guy made me play the whole thing out and it ate up 15 minutes of my clock. I'm really thinking about trying to make an autohotkeyscript to combo off faster, but I don't think it would be reliable.
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May 19, 2014 00:05
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mehall posted:Hey, why does the deck now run the Mimeoplasm wincon instead of Cerberus now? the primer still has the run down on why Cerberus was the pick... It's a metagame call, Cerberus has a tiny consistency advantage but MTGO seems to have enough people playing Spirit of the Labyrinth that it's not worth using Cerberus. Mimeoplasm is better and yes, more fun - I killed a Dredge player today by stealing his creatures with a hardcast The Mimeoplasm.
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May 19, 2014 02:15
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Wadjamaloo posted:Does pauper go here? Do we have a pauper thread? I NEVER scoop to that deck. Let them spend 20 mins winning and if you run out of time it makes my day lol.
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May 19, 2014 05:30
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mcmagic posted:I NEVER scoop to that deck. Let them spend 20 mins winning and if you run out of time it makes my day lol.
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May 19, 2014 06:00
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This is how you pick a deck in legacy: Everyone in here should actually be playing Stax. Keep in mind this flowchart is Pre-TNN, so like, it has outdated archetypes that just lose to TNN. Zoness fucked around with this message at 16:43 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 16:38
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Haha that chart owns, a testament to how cool legacy is. EDIT: I'm in the "I don't want to shell out cash for duals but I got myself some FoWs" camp and I just want to play legacy, so merfolk it is. Plus I like blue and lords and counterspells. And having access to TNN doesn't hurt either. hey mom its 420 fucked around with this message at 18:03 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 18:00
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Bonus posted:Haha that chart owns, a testament to how cool legacy is. If you have show and tells you can play Omnitell with that answer as well.
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May 19, 2014 19:00
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Who Do You Hate->Myself->Doomsday this chart is too real, man
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May 19, 2014 19:30
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So, this may be stupid, but how does the Cerberus wincon in Burrito play out? I'm trying to picture it. Also the Familiar Combo... is it basically "use the familiars so every time you play "free" spells you end up ahead on mana, then play cloud of faeries and flicker and bounce it enough times to mill them out via Denizen?"
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May 19, 2014 22:29
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:So, this may be stupid, but how does the Cerberus wincon in Burrito play out? I'm trying to picture it. Basically, fast mana into either Balustrade Spy or Undercity Informer. Target yourself, mill everything. This puts a few critters into play (normally the narcomoeba's). Sac 3 creatures to flashback dread return, to get Cerberus into play. Sac Cerberus to Cabal Therapy, to trigger his ability, you now have Laboratory Maniac in hand, along with the Spirit Guides. Exile the spirit guides and play either a lotus petal or a manamorphose or something, get blue mana, play Lab maniac,
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May 19, 2014 23:00
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mehall posted:Basically, fast mana into either Balustrade Spy or Undercity Informer. Target yourself, mill everything. This puts a few critters into play (normally the narcomoeba's). Sac 3 creatures to flashback dread return, to get Cerberus into play. Sac Cerberus to Cabal Therapy, to trigger his ability, you now have Laboratory Maniac in hand, along with the Spirit Guides. Exile the spirit guides and play either a lotus petal or a manamorphose or something, get blue mana, play Lab maniac, Wild Cantor is how you turn green or red mana into blue mana, since Underworld Cerberus doesn't bring back lotus petals.
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May 19, 2014 23:12
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Wild Cantor gets you the blue.
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May 19, 2014 23:12
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Zoness posted:Wild Cantor is how you turn green or red mana into blue mana, since Underworld Cerberus doesn't bring back lotus petals. I know it doesn't get you petals, but you might have cards left over. But yeah, Wild Cantor is the piece I forgot to mention.
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May 19, 2014 23:24
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Also the Familiar Combo... is it basically "use the familiars so every time you play "free" spells you end up ahead on mana, then play cloud of faeries and flicker and bounce it enough times to mill them out via Denizen?" Up until you combo off the deck has a ton of good value plays and also some good interaction for an all in combo deck. It feels incredibly powerful, if time weren't an issue I know I could crush 8 mans with it. Each loop takes about 9 clicks, and you are usually only netting 1 mana. Then you have to do 9 more clicks for ever 2 cards you need to draw, and then 11 more for every card you need to mill. Modo needs to add a function to repeat a loop. In paper this deck would take all of 10 seconds to combo off and online its closer to 10 min.
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May 19, 2014 23:26
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Wadjamaloo posted:Use familiars or karoo lands to turn cloud of faeries into a ritual. Then you ghostly flicker cloud of faeries and mnemonic wall to get infinite mana. Flicker wall and sea gate oracle, or mulldrifter to draw your deck. One you find denizen you do the infinite mama loop for infinite mill. I always make people play this out and they lose because of it like 90% of the time. I guess the loop function would be hard to implement (I can't think of an elegant way it could be done online), but I'm not conceding if I don't think they're playing fast enough to make it, just f6 and join another match. I have stopped joining matches with hour long clocks specifically because of these long recursive things. Gonna post about some pauper in a bit.
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May 19, 2014 23:41
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