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That deck looks really cool but I'm wildly uncomfortable with the idea of basically having nothing that can cope with a single resolved threat.
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May 29, 2014 23:11
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I've played about 25 modern 2-man queues today with my faeries list from before. I did alter the sideboard to be a little better balanced. Still happy to take suggestions on it though. http://deckstats.net/deck-4235480-5792e8ecabb0bee8618e23af30b9dcca.html Overall, my record was pretty good. I would say I won about 2/3 of my games.  I am enjoying faeries more than any of the previous modern decks I've played. It just has fun interactions with other decks. I played a number of games against blue tron, and never lost. They have kind of a low threat density, and faeries plays in the end step quite well. They have a hard time with a resolved sword. I always sided out my spot removal, and sided in sowers and spell pierces. Sowering a wurmcoil is a lot of fun. I also did well against r/u/w control. Faeries is pretty good at the long game, and managing the opponent's hand. Twin decks are a lot of fun to play against. I would say my record there was closer to 50/50 though. The constant high-stakes stack battles are amusing. For decks I did poorly against, I played against burn a couple times and never won. Faeries seems to have kind of a hard time with really fast decks. I played in one eight-man, and lost against burn in the finals. Anything with aether vial is hard. I would say I won against hatebears only 1/3 of the time. Vialed flickerwisps mess with a lot of your removal. I didn't do well against the couple delver games I played. They play a delver turn 1, counter my spot removal, and I am in kind of a hard place. Played against some random decks like 8-rack, mono-black devotion, and KCI eggs, and handily put them away. Only one game against Jund, but I won. Mostly thanks to bitterblossom and swords. Only one game against Affinity, which I won. Mostly thanks to them not having nut hands, and me having early bitterblossom. Oddly, I didn't play against pod all day. Any suggestions to help shore up the weaker matchups? Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 23:24 on May 29, 2014 |
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May 29, 2014 23:21
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Filthy Monkey posted:Any suggestions to help shore up the weaker matchups?
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May 29, 2014 23:42
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Everblight posted:Not that burn is a thing to worry about, but Dragon's Claw puts in work Dragon's Claw is like, really not worth a card, especially when you're looking at variants with the black burn spell and creatures. Rune Snag seems worse than Mana Leak or Spell Snare in that slot, and a Batterskull (less vulnerable to Smash to Smithereens) might be helpful in giving you inevitability against aggro. Damnation rarely feels like it's something you want to cast unless you really want an out to Thrun I suppose. http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7343&d=242055&f=MO in particular is a list that looks similar to yours that might be worth
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May 30, 2014 07:22
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Dragons claw is and always has been more of an answer for the mirror when you benefit off your own spells as well as theirs.
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May 30, 2014 07:32
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Stinky Pit posted:That deck looks really cool but I'm wildly uncomfortable with the idea of basically having nothing that can cope with a single resolved threat. Do you mean my latest brew? It has 4 copies of Thought Lash to cope with resolved threats and 4 Intuition to search them out, as well as the 3 maindeck Jace. This deck simply doesn't have a problem with aggro, unless they also have permission to stop Thought Lash from being a factor.
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May 30, 2014 21:15
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Do you mean my latest brew? It has 4 copies of Thought Lash to cope with resolved threats and 4 Intuition to search them out, as well as the 3 maindeck Jace. This deck simply doesn't have a problem with aggro, unless they also have permission to stop Thought Lash from being a factor. "Threat" doesn't necessarily mean "dude beating your face in right now." It just means any permanent (really card, but we're talking about permanents here) that threatens to take you out of the game. Thoughtlash is a pretty decent answer to something like a resolved Delver or 'Goyf, but doesn't deal well with other things that can be dropped onto the field in the first turn or two. For example, a resolved Grim Lavamancer or Cursed Scroll is potentially pretty savage against your deck, as are things like Aether Vial (into D&T creatues) or Chalice of the Void set to 2 (possibly off a first turn Trinisphere). A resolved turn 1 Goblin Lackey can easily create an un-recoverable board state for you, even with a quick Thought Lash or Jace. Plus you get the occasional weird poo poo from bad decks that nevertheless has potential to cause you major problems (like someone ritualing out a Hypnotic Spectre). I mean you can't expect to deal with every possible contingency and the deck's win condition is a reasonably fast combo (one piece of which doubles as a form of protection), but winning is usually going to rely on having an enchantment and two LGD fucked around with this message at 00:10 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 23:54
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LGD posted:"Threat" doesn't necessarily mean "dude beating your face in right now." It just means any permanent (really card, but we're talking about permanents here) that threatens to take you out of the game. Lavamancer and Cursed Scroll don't do anything more than just a beatdown plan. Thought Lash prevents more than just combat damage. Chalice on 2 only stops Counterspell in his deck, so I'm not sure why you'd worry about that, though Chalice on 1 would be annoying. That still doesn't stop Intuition or Lab Maniac though. As for suggestions to the deck, a few bounce spells somewhere in the 75 aside from hibernation would probably be good. Chain of Vapor, Snap, Echoing Truth, Wipe Away, and Venser are what find their way into most decks. It's possible you could trim one Thought Lash and one Lab Maniac for a few Cunning Wishes, and put silver bullet instants in the board too. 3 is enough for Intuition as long as you don't draw one and lose it to discard, so that choice may depend on what your meta looks like. Divert and/or Misdirection offer extra protection for your permanents. I like them more than the Stifles in the board, I think. Envelop is something a lot of decks have been boarding for the Miracles matchup, BEB/Hydroblast could be things if Goblins is somehow a worry, though I can't imagine it is. Vendillion Clique could be good as a way to disrupt opponents or pitch excess Thought Lashes if you find that's an issue.
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May 31, 2014 00:27
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Oldsrocket_27 posted:Lavamancer and Cursed Scroll don't do anything more than just a beatdown plan. Thought Lash prevents more than just combat damage. Chalice on 2 only stops Counterspell in his deck, so I'm not sure why you'd worry about that, though Chalice on 1 would be annoying. That still doesn't stop Intuition or Lab Maniac though. LGD fucked around with this message at 00:46 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 00:41
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LGD posted:Derp, I forgot Laboratory Maniac's CMC (was thinking it was 2 for some reason). So yeah Chalice isn't really a going concern. Pretend I said Counterbalance or something that was less stupid. But Lavamancer and Cursed Scroll aren't good because they target the opposing player, they're good because they poo poo all over Laboratory Maniac and slow the deck waaaaaaay down. They don't win the game in isolation, but they're problems that the deck doesn't have particularly good solutions for, and that other threats can capitalize on. Ah, that makes sense. Activated abilities like that are probably what the SB Stifles are for, now that I think about it.
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May 31, 2014 00:54
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So I played some Modern for the first time tonight with my monoR Affinity build. I had to proxy a Mox Opal and four of my sideboard cards, but people were cool about it. I was nervous but I've read articles and watched lots of Pro Tour footage so I felt ok. First guy I played was on UG Tron. I just blew him out in game after game with T4-T5 kills. Blood Moon did work. Second guy was on MonoR burn. He took a couple off me, but I was able to win more than I lost (5W 2L I think) just by having more staying power; he had to throw stuff at my dudes to not die, which slowed him down. Etched Champions ruined him. Third guy was on UR Delver. A neat deck, but way too slow, not enough threats. I won 2-0 or 3-0, don't remember. Fourth guy was on Turbotwin. Game 1 I wasn't sure what it was and got blown out by the combo on T4 (tapped out for an Etched Champion and he Pestermited EOT then untapped with Twin). Game 2 I managed to grind him out after he couldn't find both his combo pieces and protection for them, and I held back threats. Game 3 we stopped because the next round of limited was starting, but I had a Skite, Torpor Orb, Champion and some other stuff on board so I felt good about it, since he didn't have Goyfs or any of the other tempo pieces Twin sometimes plays. Modern is fun. Looking forward to playing more of it when I get my last Opal.
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May 31, 2014 03:55
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Yo, I'm switching back to Jund after some fun with Italia, if I'm gonna use Chandra's in the deck what other cards should I consider/leave out? How many Coursers should I put in? I'm thinking 3, but that's because I'm a huge loving miser, and don't want to spend 24 bucks on an already expensive deck even though I bought 4 goyfs 
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Jun 2, 2014 03:47
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Wescoe put out a State of Modern article that has a pretty good Jund list: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11839 I may make the jump to Jund myself simply because it's not as susceptible to being banned out of existence compared to Twin and Pod, and it only gets better as more and more utility spells get printed.
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Jun 2, 2014 05:01
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:Wescoe put out a State of Modern article that has a pretty good Jund list: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11839
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Jun 2, 2014 05:03
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For those of you who ask or read the discussion on budget lists and are sort of hesitant to believe posters who say, you can win consistently with them Manaless Dredge just got 6th at an SCG Open. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=68364
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Jun 2, 2014 06:07
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I see four forests in that deck, so the name is already misleading. 
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Jun 2, 2014 18:47
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Mercury Crusader posted:I see four forests in that deck, so the name is already misleading. Dryad Arbor + Griselbrand is used in lieu of 0 lands + Balustrade Spy to have more dredge triggers and be able to play nature's claim out of the sideboard. It is the option if you are afraid of Leyline of the Void and to some extent Rest in Peace.
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Jun 2, 2014 19:06
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Still not quite manaless though. 
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Jun 2, 2014 20:03
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Not to mention that for a budget deck it's still over $400, and most of the cards are unplayable outside of a dredge shell. I think that's the main problem with many legacy budget options - usually the decks aren't bad, it's that once you get bored of them you can't really transfer your cards over to a new deck. Like, if you change your mind and have this deck, you're about 6 cards towards reanimator and down a couple hundred dollars. The other thing is that in my opinion, and I'm sure plenty of people will disagree, is that playing manaless (or otherwise) dredge, or something like oops all spells, misses out on a lot of what legacy has to offer. Unless you really enjoy that style of deck, it seems a bit pointless to play dredge to get into legacy as you're basically not even playing the game.
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Jun 2, 2014 20:26
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Aston posted:Not to mention that for a budget deck it's still over $400, and most of the cards are unplayable outside of a dredge shell. I think that's the main problem with many legacy budget options - usually the decks aren't bad, it's that once you get bored of them you can't really transfer your cards over to a new deck. Like, if you change your mind and have this deck, you're about 6 cards towards reanimator and down a couple hundred dollars. Not being transferable isn't the end of the world, as things go though. I spent about $200 on Breakfast Burrito, and none of it transfers into the deck I'm building now, but I like having the option to just whip the deck out when I don't want to play a more complicated deck and jam some goofy legacy games. You get a little bit of overlap if you want to stay in the same strategy and move into a pricier deck, but if nothing else you get to start playing Legacy for the cost of a standard deck, and get a feel for what else is in the format and what else you might like to play when you see opponent's decks. I really don't think it's wasting your time and money if it gets you started in a format and you end up with a tournament playable deck that can occasionally get you pretty deep on a hot streak to boot.
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Jun 2, 2014 20:50
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Cabal Therapy sees play elsewhere and trades super-hot anyway. Leyline of Sanctity, Elesh Norn and Griselbrand all see play in Modern and EDH, and you'll have no problem moving them if/when you try and get out of the deck. Ichorid is about the only card more than a dollar that you can't easily port or trade. And that $400 tag is assuming you're paying the $0.45 for Golgari Grave-Shell or whatever when they can be had for free from one of your friend's "big box o' commons" next time you're over.
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Jun 2, 2014 20:53
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Yeah, it's by no means the worst deck ever to get into, but I know I would certainly not have a lot of fun with the deck and paying upwards of $100 for the Ichorids, Bridges and Dryad Arbors alone would leave a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not sure what a better option is though, to be honest, other than saving up for longer to buy a deck with more staples. In fairness, the deck I play in legacy when I have the chance is Goblins, which also doesn't transfer well apart from the Wastelands. I guess its saving grace is being the most fun deck of all time.
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Jun 2, 2014 21:49
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Aston posted:Yeah, it's by no means the worst deck ever to get into, but I know I would certainly not have a lot of fun with the deck and paying upwards of $100 for the Ichorids, Bridges and Dryad Arbors alone would leave a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not sure what a better option is though, to be honest, other than saving up for longer to buy a deck with more staples. But a lot of those staples are individually worth more than a playset of those cards you named. Often substantially so. Getting to the point where you can switch between multiple top tier Legacy decks requires some combination of having many of the staple cards in your collection already, a substantial chunk of cash up front, a lot of wheeling and dealing over time, or generous friends. And even then the cost of certain cards is such that you will frequently need to make a multi-hundred dollar outlay (or equivalent trade) to move into a related archetype if you're missing any "staple." Budget is always a relative term, and getting a tournament competitive Legacy deck for around the same price as a Standard deck isn't a bad deal. The cards may not be broadly applicable, but given the popularity of the archetype they're still likely to be fairly easy to trade in the future, and unlike a Standard deck they're never going to be made useless by a format rotation. I think if you want to get into the format it's definitely not a bad starting point- many people will find the deck's style fun and I don't think it's substantially more narrow (or more expensive) than any of the other "budget" Legacy decks that actually have a reasonable shot to place in a tournament.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:11
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Aston posted:Yeah, it's by no means the worst deck ever to get into, but I know I would certainly not have a lot of fun with the deck and paying upwards of $100 for the Ichorids, Bridges and Dryad Arbors alone would leave a bad taste in my mouth. That has way more to do with you having the typical bullshit "its not real magic" attitude than the deck being bad. Aston posted:as you're basically not even playing the game. Dredge/Breakfast Burrito/Charbelcher they require plenty of knowledge of the format and test skill. Especially after sideboard. The fact that a horde of morons got butt-hurt and deemed dredge "not real magic" is dumb. Aston posted:Not to mention that for a budget deck it's still over $400 Yes and the average standard deck could also be upwards of 400 dollars if I was a mouth-breather and bought every single card at the highest priced retailer. Or we could be honest and admit that the vast majority of that deck is bulk that could be had for cheap, and plenty of copies of the expensive cards can be had for 10 to 5 dollars less than their highest listings. You can still cash out of a standard deck and go out and get nearly all the expensive pieces for a deck like this or other budget options and then leisurely trade for the missing pieces. And for that you can have a Legacy deck, one that can put up results, and you can have a lot of fun.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:26
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Stinky Pit posted:Or we could be honest and admit that the vast majority of that deck is bulk that could be had for cheap, and plenty of copies of the expensive cards can be had for 10 to 5 dollars less than their highest listings. And if you're desperate, you could use Khalni Garden for the same effect as Dryad Arbor for less than a buck for the playset.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:40
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Stinky Pit posted:That has way more to do with you having the typical bullshit "its not real magic" attitude than the deck being bad. You certainly seem to be very defensive about this and similar decks. All I'm saying is that recommending it as a good budget entry to the format is not necessarily a good idea because 1. it doesn't get you very far into the format and 2. it interacts on a substantially different axis to what people may be used to, and that might make it unenjoyable for some people (myself included). If you're not bothered about transferability and/or you like the style of deck, more power to you. It would be a boring game if we all played the same thing. Edit: As to the prices I just clicked through the links to the Star City shop, if pieces are cheaper elsewhere then fair enough.
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Jun 2, 2014 22:53
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Prices are always cheaper elsewhere when you are looking at SCG, like anywhere else you look at all.
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Jun 2, 2014 23:30
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Aston posted:You certainly seem to be very defensive about this and similar decks. Its because your complaints are nonsensical dude. You complained about the price, but couldn't be bothered to shop around, and you're bemoaning how a narrow, budget alternative that can still post a result doesn't get you "very far into the format" completely forgetting that the other option is usually not being in the format at all. In my opinion Manaless Dredge and Breakfast Burrito are at this moment the single best options for sub 350 Legacy Decks that can still post results. If they aren't to your taste that's fine but don't hem and haw about them being bad options without providing some alternatives man. That's not adding anything to the discussion and just comes off as complaining.
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Jun 2, 2014 23:46
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Stinky Pit posted:Dredge/Breakfast Burrito/Charbelcher they require plenty of knowledge of the format and test skill. Especially after sideboard. The fact that a horde of morons got butt-hurt and deemed dredge "not real magic" is dumb. Not that arguments about "real magic" aren't dumb and terrible, but I always thought not being "real magic" was part of the charm of those decks. They're the Magic equivalent of the life that grows up around deep-sea thermal vents. Who needs spells or a hand when you've got GAME ACTIONS?
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Jun 3, 2014 00:29
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How about legacy pox? Seems like a great deck for under a grand if its your thing(I think it might be my thing)
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Jun 3, 2014 00:32
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Ramos posted:Still not quite manaless though. Fear not, you can make a pretty decent truly-manaless version for the low, low price of a set of Force of Will! (N.B. I may be mistaking "pretty decent" for "it'll catch your opponents completely off-guard the first couple of times and then everyone will just think you're crazy.")
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Jun 3, 2014 00:55
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Manaless dredge can be built upon and transitioned into other decks. Get yourself some LED's and start playing normal dredge. Then work on some lands and move on to storm. Breakfast burrito also transitions pretty nicely into storm.
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Jun 3, 2014 01:10
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always be closing posted:How about legacy pox? Seems like a great deck for under a grand if its your thing(I think it might be my thing) I've been playing a relatively budget version (no wastelands or lilianas) of a GB pox deck online. It's a fun deck (grindy control is the best control) and you get a ridiculous variety of win conditions. Smallpox is absurd against basically everything, and if you play online you get to throw in some pretty cheap utility lands (tabernacle is like five bucks?). Getting to cast crop rotation for an end of turn Marit Lage out of nowhere is just the icing on the cake. My list probably sucks and could be tuned, but it's reasonably solid and has a few outs to most of its problem matchups (plus, mainboard Bojuka Bog can wreck a whole bunch of decks when you crop rotate for it under their noses). Tower of the Magistrate is anti-sword and Batterskull tech. Blood Moon effects get dealt with by entombing either Riftstone Portal or Ray of Revelation with held up green mana. Barren Moor saves Loam from spot removal, and Pernicious Deed effects are pretty good as well (albeit absent in my current build). Or you could build a more straightforward version focusing on mana denial with 4x each of Sinkhole and Blight. (pox is fun af, get in) AgentSythe posted:The only reason to play pox is to show off all 4 Mishra's Factory arts a dozen swans fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jun 3, 2014 |
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Jun 3, 2014 02:19
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The only reason to play pox is to show off all 4 Mishra's Factory arts
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Jun 3, 2014 03:37
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There is some pretty sweet new tech in the Breakfast Burrito/Oops all Spells deck. Decklist here. quote:2) Past in Flames Package
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Jun 3, 2014 05:51
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Wadjamaloo posted:There is some pretty sweet new tech in the Breakfast Burrito/Oops all Spells deck. Is the plan against Turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage and Surgical Extraction still "oh welp"?
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Jun 3, 2014 06:21
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I know its super popular and a good deck but playing Affinity on MODO is just misery. UWR after UWR deck with 4 Bolts 4 Paths 4 Helix and 4 Snapcasters is just so obnoxious.
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Jun 3, 2014 06:25
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I guess the downside is now you're running the LED version, and hence fold to force entirely instead of being able to Pact through it.
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Jun 3, 2014 07:07
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Is it at all possible to do any better than breaking even with 2 mans on MODO right now?
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Jun 3, 2014 10:43
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Stinky Pit posted:Is it at all possible to do any better than breaking even with 2 mans on MODO right now? I dont think so, and you gotta have the right bot, packs are worthless nowadays, drat recession.
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Jun 3, 2014 10:54
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