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Hi folks, I have a diesel 81 Eldorado. Here's a picture of it when it was working: http://imgur.com/Y6tAb0y Predictably, the engine blew a head gasket. (Just the other day) I have heard that these engines will actually last for awhile if you replace the stock head bolts with grade 9 head bolts. Apparently the common failure mode is the stock head bolts will stretch, causing head gasket failure. When I first got this car, I took it to a shop and asked them to check if the grade 9 bolts were in place. They stated that they were. Now that my car has blown a head gasket, the current shop (different from the first one) has informed me that in fact no such grade 9 bolts are in place. Obviously I'm quite pissed about this, but probably nothing I can do about it now. Anyway, here is my question. Do you know of any shop or individual that would consider either replacing the engine, or dropping the body of this car onto a different frame so that a different engine can be used? I love this car, and am willing to dump some money into it to keep it going. Any ideas are welcome. Otherwise, it's going straight into the trash. I'm in no rush to get it rebuilt. Thanks everyone!
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May 20, 2014 02:35
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 07:47 |
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Start at 20,000 and be prepared to spend more. Are you sure you love the car that much?
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May 20, 2014 02:41
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That is roughly what I figured. I feel pretty confident that I do like this car that much. As long as the end result is something more reliable and with more power.
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May 20, 2014 02:46
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Can't you rebuild those diesel blocks as high compression gas engines? At least that is what I have read is/was popular with the oldsmobile diesel. Surely that would cost less than 20k, even at shop rates.
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May 20, 2014 02:50
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I think it might be possible, but I don't know of any shop in the Puget Sound area that knows how to do so.
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May 20, 2014 02:51
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Make that engine go away. Whoever told you those engines last needs to be shot (yes they can last if you babysit it and have lots of disposable income, but at that point it's still a horrible engine on a good day). LM7/LQ4 it, or 6.2/6.5 or Duramax if you wanna stay Diesel. Olds gas 350 or 455 if you don't want to gently caress with adapter plates. If you don't want to do any of that sell the car. Turbo Fondant fucked around with this message at 03:00 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 02:54
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Vim Fuego posted:Can't you rebuild those diesel blocks as high compression gas engines? At least that is what I have read is/was popular with the oldsmobile diesel. Surely that would cost less than 20k, even at shop rates. It's possible but it takes some pretty extreme ($$$$) machine work and you still wind up with an engine that's way too heavy for what it is. I looked into this route when I was looking into swaps for my 307 powered B-body many years ago.
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May 20, 2014 02:56
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Can't you just have a shop basically drop in a carb'ed BOP and switch out the fuel tank? Should be fairly cheap.
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May 20, 2014 02:58
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Tommychu posted:Make that engine go away. Whoever told you those engines last needs to be shot (yes they can last if you babysit it and have lots of disposable income, but at that point it's still a horrible engine on a good day). LM7/LQ4 it, or 6.2/6.5 or Duramax if you wanna stay Diesel. Olds gas 350 or 455 if you don't want to gently caress with adapter plates. I know, I hate the engine too. I have taken this car to four shops at this point, and you are the first person who has identified different engines that will fit in this car. I really appreciate the help!  Which of those three diesel engines would you recommend? And what are some of the details on the adapter plate? Thanks again!
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May 20, 2014 03:10
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I think you're going to end up designing or getting it designed. If there's a swap kit readily available it'll cut down on costs significantly.
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May 20, 2014 03:13
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I don't have too much experience in this area, but the function of the adapter plate is to make the new engine work with the stock transmission? Is that correct? I am guessing I would need to get custom motor mounts as well? This car is front wheel drive and has a transaxle. I am unsure if that increases the difficulty here or not. (My guess would be yes) Thanks!
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May 20, 2014 03:27
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Wasn't there a fwd LSx? LS4?
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May 20, 2014 03:37
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That Eldorado is relatively unique in that even though it's a front wheel drive transmission, it's designed for a longitudinal engine mount so it's probably mildly easier than other engine swaps since most of the engines worth swapping to are designed to be mounted longitudinally. You need to get the crankshaft perfectly centered with the transmission input shaft and hope the stock torque converter on the new engine fits. Making custom flex plates would be a lot easier (cheaper) than making a custom torque converter that fits on the new engine and the old transmission. Motor mounts are usually pretty easy by comparison as long as the new engines mount points aren't particularly far away from a nice point on the frame or subframe. You don't have to be as perfectly precise because the rubber will handle minor inaccuracies.
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May 20, 2014 03:41
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It does have nearly the same wheelbase as the third gen blazer. Just so you know some of your other options.
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May 20, 2014 03:48
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Remains Unseen posted:
The Detroit 6.2/6.5 would be easiest to fit since they're mechanical injection (no extra wires over what the Olds Diesel takes), they fit anywhere a SBC does, and they use the SBC trans bolt pattern. Adapters are readily available to go from SBC to the BOP pattern your Olds uses. They're generally regarded as gutless (but depending on which one they make between 10 and 90 more horsepower than your Olds and between 10 and 300(!) lb-ft more torque) and it's a little tough to milk big power out of them but fuel mileage and reliability are very good on these. I would almost go with a 6.2 if you're not looking to go Ricky Bobby fast, that way there's no turbo to worry about and outputs are going to be comparable so you won't have to worry about breaking stuff. Turbo Fondant fucked around with this message at 04:12 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 04:09
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Tommychu posted:The Detroit 6.2/6.5 would be easiest to fit since they're mechanical injection (no extra wires over what the Olds Diesel takes), they fit anywhere a SBC does, and they use the SBC trans bolt pattern. Adapters are readily available to go from SBC to the BOP pattern your Olds uses. They're generally regarded as gutless (but depending on which one they make between 10 and 90 more horsepower than your Olds and between 10 and 300(!) lb-ft more torque) and it's a little tough to milk big power out of them but fuel mileage and reliability are very good on these. This project just became way more feasible. I'd agree with going with the 6.2. The worst would be getting everything running and then blowing transmissions every 5,000 miles from putting too much power through them.
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May 20, 2014 04:19
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craig588 posted:This project just became way more feasible. Nobody has ever used "6.2 detroit" and "too much power" in the same sentence.
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May 20, 2014 04:23
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Even the 6.2 is a quite a bump from the 105HP of the 350 diesel. In turbo form I think the 6.5s were making 200HP? That sounds like a scary amount of power to put through that transmission.
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May 20, 2014 04:27
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It's actually a pretty drat stout drivetrain in those. But I wouldn't *quite* trust it enough to run 525 lb-ft (the highest stock 6.5 torque) through it without some modification.
Turbo Fondant fucked around with this message at 04:42 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 04:36
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Sounds good! I'll go with the 6.2 engine then. So I'm looking for something like this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-2-Diesel-Engine-/261317807861 And is this the correct adapter plate? http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chevy-to-BOP-Transmission-Adapter-Plate,3281.html Anything else I need to get for the shop besides the motor and the plate? Now I just need to find a shop that knows how to do something like this. The blazer option is quite tempting to be honest, haha. Thanks for the help everyone!
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May 20, 2014 04:59
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Tommychu posted:They're generally regarded as gutless (but depending on which one they make between 10 and 90 more horsepower than your Olds and between 10 and 300(!) lb-ft more torque) and it's a little tough to milk big power out of them but fuel mileage and reliability are very good on these. Better mileage would be awesome. I'm not trying to go that fast. It might be nice to be able to pull a trailer though, not sure if that's even doable.
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May 20, 2014 05:02
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If you're paying a shop to do it, get a fresh one. The cost of the engine will still be far less than labor and then you know you'll have a good engine. It's not as simple as just getting an engine and that adapter plate, the intake, exhaust, controls, fuel and coolant lines need to be routed. Any shop skilled enough to perform all of those related tasks probably also has their own preferences regarding suppliers or brands so you'd probably want to go with their recommendations on what to buy instead of bringing them parts and asking them to use them. I run a garage that occasionally does full on custom swaps and it's pretty annoying when someone comes in with a truckfull of parts. I'd rather they talked to me about what they wanted first, maybe everything they bought is fine, but it's better to let the people who are going to be doing the work offer their ideas before you get stuff. craig588 fucked around with this message at 05:11 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 05:03
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How many hours should a shop charge me for something like this?
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May 20, 2014 05:10
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Without seriously looking at the project, easily at least 50 hours if they're not half assing it.
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May 20, 2014 05:14
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One caveat is to make sure the oil pan doesn't interfere with the transmission, which is basically a turbo-hydromatic folded forwards, like so (this one's an older 425, but your 325 uses the same layout): If it really is SBC-sized it shouldn't be a problem, but shouldn't be overlooked regardless.
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May 20, 2014 06:46
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craig588 posted:Without seriously looking at the project, easily at least 50 hours if they're not half assing it. That seems completely reasonable to me. Thanks!
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May 20, 2014 08:21
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Just talked to the shop. They said that putting a 6.2 in there would be difficult as it would need a computer swap. Any thoughts on that? Thanks!
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May 20, 2014 19:49
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Why not just put a SBC in it? Parts are a dime a dozen, putting it in would require minimal work (probably fuel system, basically), and it can give you more power than that car would ever have had otherwise.
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May 20, 2014 20:03
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Krakkles posted:Why not just put a SBC in it? Parts are a dime a dozen, putting it in would require minimal work (probably fuel system, basically), and it can give you more power than that car would ever have had otherwise. Probably because he wants to keep it diesel. Get the 6.2 Turbodiesel if possible.
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May 20, 2014 20:13
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Krakkles posted:Why not just put a SBC in it? Parts are a dime a dozen, putting it in would require minimal work (probably fuel system, basically), and it can give you more power than that car would ever have had otherwise. That's a good idea. For some reason, I'm attached to the diesel aspect of the car, haha. What model engine specifically would you suggest? Would it require a computer swap? Thanks!
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May 20, 2014 20:15
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I mean, diesel is cool and all, but especially since your shop of choice is saying the swap would be a lot of work (they're right) and you don't want to keep the original engine (you don't, seriously), and an SBC will literally bolt in, it just doesn't make a ton of sense, unless you really are prepared to spend 20k doing the swap. In which case, call them back and tell them to swap the computer - they probably will, for the right price. Frankly, since keeping it simple seems to be a factor, just put a carburated SBC in. It won't even need a computer! Take your pick: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_small-block_engine Your current diesel is based on the same architecture as these, so the mounts should be the same, it should bolt up to the transaxle without any issue. Beyond that, the sky is pretty much the limit on output, so start shopping and pick a price point.
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May 20, 2014 20:20
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This is a rare case where I'll second the carb route; no additional wiring for injectors, and the mechanical distributor is just one additional wire.Krakkles posted:Your current diesel is based on the same architecture as these, so the mounts should be the same, it should bolt up to the transaxle without any issue. Beyond that, the sky is pretty much the limit on output, so start shopping and pick a price point. Not true, the Olds Diesel is based on the Rocket 350, not the Chevy Small Block; completely different engines. The bellhousing pattern is different, though I'm sure someone makes an adapter. For simple mode, an Olds 350 (gasoline) engine would be the easy mode, and according to various sources all Buick, Olds and Pontiac V8s from 65 on share the same bolt pattern (as does the Grand National's turbo V6  ), so you've got options.Comedy option: built Cadillac 500. Edit: Or a V8-6-4. 
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May 20, 2014 20:59
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Remains Unseen posted:Just talked to the shop. They said that putting a 6.2 in there would be difficult as it would need a computer swap. Any thoughts on that? Thanks! Yes it would. It's not really all that difficult relative to getting everything else sorted though. That's part of what I was talking about when I said controls. I'm pretty sure I haven't done a single engine swap that hasn't also required swapping ECUs. CommieGIR posted:Get the 6.2 Turbodiesel if possible. I don't think the 6.2 was ever offered in turbo form. When they turboed it they also increased the displacement to 6.5.
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May 20, 2014 21:05
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craig588 posted:I don't think the 6.2 was ever offered in turbo form. When they turboed it they also increased the displacement to 6.5. No, it didn't come stock, but Banks offered a turbo kit for it. Krakkles posted:I mean, diesel is cool and all, but especially since your shop of choice is saying the swap would be a lot of work (they're right) and you don't want to keep the original engine (you don't, seriously), and an SBC will literally bolt in, it just doesn't make a ton of sense, unless you really are prepared to spend 20k doing the swap. In which case, call them back and tell them to swap the computer - they probably will, for the right price. Okay, lets get a few things out of the way real quick: The Cadillac diesel was not actually a bad motor. A little under powered, but not bad, what gave it its bad reputation was because they failed to add a water separator to the fuel system and put cheap torque-to-yield headbolts in a diesel motor. It also got a bad rep because the dealerships didn't actually know how to maintain the motor, and were not really informed of how to do so. I don't think the Caddy Diesel has a computer either.... http://www.dieselhub.com/idi/olds-diesel.html CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 22:29 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 22:26
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What's all this talk of computers? 6.2/6.5 was pure mechanical injection, same as your current engine (I believe they used different variations of the same injection pump as well). The only electrical stuff that either engine has is the starter, fuel cut solenoid and glow plugs since both are IDI. So like 4 wires total (plus ground strap) and the car already has them. I think the later 6.5 had some extra electrical stuff but that's a non-issue on a 6.2.
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May 21, 2014 00:44
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Tommychu posted:What's all this talk of computers? 6.2/6.5 was pure mechanical injection, same as your current engine (I believe they used different variations of the same injection pump as well). The only electrical stuff that either engine has is the starter, fuel cut solenoid and glow plugs since both are IDI. So like 4 wires total (plus ground strap) and the car already has them. The shop where my car is currently located is telling me that they will need to do a "computer swap" as the "timing will be different" if they want to put the 6.2 engine in. Are they feeding me a load of poo poo?
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May 21, 2014 01:09
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Tommychu posted:What's all this talk of computers? 6.2/6.5 was pure mechanical injection, same as your current engine (I believe they used different variations of the same injection pump as well). The only electrical stuff that either engine has is the starter, fuel cut solenoid and glow plugs since both are IDI. So like 4 wires total (plus ground strap) and the car already has them. Yup, that is why I was confused why people brought up computers. Remains Unseen posted:The shop where my car is currently located is telling me that they will need to do a "computer swap" as the "timing will be different" if they want to put the 6.2 engine in. Are they feeding me a load of poo poo? It shouldn't need a computer at all, so I am suspicious. Find out EXACTLY what sort of 6.2 they plant to put in.
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May 21, 2014 01:09
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Actually, now that people mention it, I realize that there isn't any computer control on the 6.2. I'm just so used to more modern gas engines I didn't even think about it when the said they'd have to swap computers. All the 6.2 has is some sensors that go to gauges on the dashboard (Which don't matter to getting the engine running). I'm pretty sure the 6.5 is all mechanical as well, I think in later trucks they added a computer for the transmission, but the engine stayed mechanical. It's probably been over 10 years since I've last worked on one though, CommieGIR and Tommychu would be the experts to go to.
craig588 fucked around with this message at 01:54 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 01:20
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Remains Unseen posted:Just talked to the shop. They said that putting a 6.2 in there would be difficult as it would need a computer swap. Any thoughts on that? Thanks! Huge red flag, find another shop.
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May 21, 2014 01:49
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| # ? Apr 23, 2024 07:47 |
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Get a different car.
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May 21, 2014 02:42
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