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ch 9: What's the joke about Oberheit? Google didn't turn up anything and I'm impatient to return to my DF drug induced stupor.
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May 27, 2014 07:11
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 23:19 |
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I hate all of you so much right now. (I do not hate all of you right now.) But dammit. Gonna be a rough couple of hours of class tomorrow, thinking about that book the whole time.
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May 27, 2014 07:19
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  IT'S BEEN 45 MINUTES ASSHOLES
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May 27, 2014 07:40
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End of book spoiler: BUTTERS IS A loving KNIGHT OF THE CROSS AND HE HAS A LIGHTSABER THIS IS THE BEST GODDAMNED THING
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May 27, 2014 07:45
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HOLY poo poo THIS BOOK Y'ALL, WHAT THE gently caress! EVERYTHING IS THE BEST HOLY LIGHTSABER! Also, Butcher better write that scene where Molly tells her parents she's the Winter Lady at some point in his next book. I need that scene to exist so bad. So, so bad.
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May 27, 2014 08:20
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This is my new favorite book in the series, by an awful lot. End of book spoilers:I guessed the Jedi Butters thing, but not very far in advance; I figured it out when he took Harry's Really liked the twist with Gray. Really liked everything. This book is just the BEST. Also, gently caress yes more Michael. Also also, gently caress yes less Murphy. Hopefully she'll be mostly out of commission as a sidekick and sit out the next few books, at least. Khizan fucked around with this message at 09:19 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 09:17
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Wow. My new favorite. Goddamn, now the waiting clock starts again. Jesus tapdancing Christ. Mouse is awesome. I like Grey as a Kincaid 2.0. I didn't even think about naagiloshi until it was pointed out. drat. Holy gently caress Butters. Holy gently caress light saber. HOLY gently caress (Jewish)KNIGHT OF THE CROSS. I actually thought Karrin was gonna get offed. And then Michael KICKS ALL OF YOUR FENCES DOWN. I lost it at Spot. loving lost it. Sad that lash is gone , but looking forward to Harry's new spirit spawn. Butcher writes really, really good climaxes. That three Denarion fight was fantastic. Harry and murph, daaaaw. Which only means something terrible is happening in Peace Talks. Harry's not allowed to be happy. I recognize three out of four of the weapons Harry got, but what's the tablet? I'm assuming the dagger is the spear of destiny? That Maggie conversation gave me all sorts of warm fuzzies. And nice unintended consequences when Nicky realizes it. cbservo fucked around with this message at 09:29 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 09:26
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At last I can read this loving thread again! Spoilers obviously. Butters getting the sword was pretty awesome. Whum, whum, whum! I hope Harry moves in with Murphy. It just makes sense. Who else will take care of Mister? And Mouse will be just as strong at Murphy's place as he ever was at the Carpenters, so Maggie can come too. :3 It was nice to see Harry get an honest win here, after such a rough time of it recently. This broke up the trend of vampire books every 3 novels, too. I like how Butcher let Harry get over his gooniness about girls too, at least when it comes to fighting them. I don't think we'll see Lasciel again, though it's sad to see Lash confirmed for dead. I did not expect Harry to have basically another daughter, though its pretty drat cool. I'm slightly worried she's going to shack up with Bob.
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May 27, 2014 09:32
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Finished it up tonight and holy balls this was awesome. This is the one series where each book has pretty much been way better than the one before, with the personal exception of that splattercon book cause that one was just kinda "meh". Big ending spoilers for the book! Best idea I have for the knife he found was maybe Abraham's knife he was going to use to sacrifice his kid? There aren't that many knives in the bible, and it'd have to be pretty old considering it's a brass one. Hell, might have even been the weapon Cain used to off Abel since they never really talk about what the specific weapon was. I dunno if it counts as a spoiler or not, but just to be safe? I kinda miss Toot and Thomas. I mean, I kinda get why they weren't in the book due to the time limit of the book, but I always enjoy seeing em pop up in the novels. Plus I was wondering how Butcher was going to handle Toot being in love. I did notice way less cussing this time around though, so that was nice. Quick question, when reading the series and you hear Michael speaking... does anyone else read that in Liam Neeson's voice? I know he's not midwestern, and I know he's not some blonde thor looking dude like Michael is supposed to be but god drat that voice in my head always defaults to Liam and I dunno why. Been that way since they first introduced him. Stupid_Sexy_Flander fucked around with this message at 09:43 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 09:40
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cbservo posted:
Regarding Gray: I guessed naagloshii fairly early on, because he's a shapeshifter and he's enough of a badass to sit at that table and just not give a gently caress about anybody else there; the naagloshii is the only thing we've seen so far that fits those two criteria, and Harry already has a history with them. I'd almost be willing to take it a step farther and say that the father that Gray talked about is Shagnasty, the one Dresden has a personal grudge against.
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May 27, 2014 10:30
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Dang this book was amazing! Butters was an amazing character in this. At first he is Batman, but he later becomes a Jedi. Also looks like there will be less Murphy as a sidekick, though I did like how she was shown in this book. Mouse is always the greatest, and I would also like to see Molly telling her parents what she has been doing the last couple of years. Can the next book come out soon.... like tomorrow or next week. I don't want to wait. cbservo posted:Wow. My new favorite. Goddamn, now the waiting clock starts again. My guess is the tablet originally had INRI on it, it just faded away over the centuries.
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May 27, 2014 10:37
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Well Harry now has two daughters he actually has to deal with which should be good. A little sad Lash is dead, but I'm interested to see what kind of relationship you can have with a spirit of intellect you birthed. Especially when you also have a human daughter you're building a relationship with. Also Uncle Thomas, Great-Grandfather Ebenezzer... Gah, why is it going to be another year? Also holy poo poo am I glad Sanya has some backup finally.
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May 27, 2014 10:49
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I was really happy to see Binder show up again, too. He was one of my favorite characters in Turn Coat. I hope he shows up again, I like the whole frenemies thing he has going with Dresden.
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May 27, 2014 11:07
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Ok, that was silly-awesome. I'm glad this one got back to just being a straight up single-volume rolling story with a few nice high points and a clean win at the end. Feels like one of the best volumes in the series to date, and exactly what the series needed right now, a nice clean excellent return to episodic form.
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May 27, 2014 11:13
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This book can be summed up in one word Parkour!!!!!!!!
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May 27, 2014 12:21
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Finished it up tonight and holy balls this was awesome. I'm pretty sure that it is actually Medea's Bodkin, or the knife that Harry used on Lloyd Slate to become the Winter Knight. Check out it's description here. http://dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Medea%E2%80%99s_Bodkin
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May 27, 2014 12:32
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So many excellent moments and world building in it. Harry's chat with Hades was excellent, as was both the significant ones with Michael. Awesome for Butters and the lightsabre was a great touch. Annoying things left hanging are the hints about Molly keeping secrets, what's going to happen with Harry's spirit child and of course what Nicodemus wants with the Grail, though I'm thinking we won't fight that out until 20 and it'll kick off the final trilogy The one bad thing about the Dresden Files is the one year wait between books.
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May 27, 2014 12:45
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That was a pretty solid entry. The one major complaint I have, despite the great payoff, is that Murphy's now back into Status Quo Holding Pattern, despite the fairly obvious setup for her getting the Sword of Love down the line, and it's going to involve more of her being down about failing to wield the sword and even more of her falling back since even Butters is a grade-A heavy hitter now. Edit: Actually, I'm a little annoyed that despite the Athena-Spirit-Thing being such a major motivating factor during this story that we didn't get any significant payoff time with it after the birth. I'm sure that'll be front and center next book but it feels a little unsatisfying. Michael is still the best character in the books. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 12:59 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 12:56
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AfricanBurrito posted:I'm pretty sure that it is actually Medea's Bodkin, or the knife that Harry used on Lloyd Slate to become the Winter Knight. Check out it's description here. http://dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Medea%E2%80%99s_Bodkin I think you might be right, but I'm not sure. In both Changes and Cold Days, it's described as being bronze, but Skin Game says it's brass: Skin Game: "A knife with a wooden handle and a leaf-shaped blade." "And the brass hilt of the knife clicked against the aluminum splint still on my left arm." Other than the brass/bronze thing, the descriptions match... But there's part of me that thinks if it was Medea's Bodkin, Dresden would recognize it. And brass is much brighter and more golden-looking than bronze, so it'd be pretty hard to confuse them... Ah, hell. I don't know.
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May 27, 2014 13:04
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Screen Door Slams posted:I think you might be right, but I'm not sure. In both Changes and Cold Days, it's described as being bronze, but Skin Game says it's brass: I thought that he did recognize it, since as soon as he saw it, he knew what Nicodemus really wanted. But I guess we'll see
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May 27, 2014 13:09
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AfricanBurrito posted:I thought that he did recognize it, since as soon as he saw it, he knew what Nicodemus really wanted. But I guess we'll see Maybe, maybe... But, I mean, if it was Medea's Bodkin it wouldn't have anything to do with Christ, and everything else on the table was a relic of Christ. Given how the vault was described as being obsessively-organized, I don't think there'd be a display table that wasn't completely relics of Christ. Maybe it's the tip of the Spear of Destiny...
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May 27, 2014 13:19
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lol thats an awful lot of spoilers , I came just looking to see if the latest book was out, looks like its out and someones making t shirts 
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May 27, 2014 13:22
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Screen Door Slams posted:Maybe, maybe... But, I mean, if it was Medea's Bodkin it wouldn't have anything to do with Christ, and everything else on the table was a relic of Christ. Given how the vault was described as being obsessively-organized, I don't think there'd be a display table that wasn't completely relics of Christ. Maybe it's the tip of the Spear of Destiny... Ah that's a good point. I hadn't considered that and you may be right.
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May 27, 2014 13:25
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It just occurred to me to think of it this way, but Maggie has a sister now! I really hope we get some cute interactions between the two in the next book.
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May 27, 2014 13:54
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AfricanBurrito posted:I thought that he did recognize it, since as soon as he saw it, he knew what Nicodemus really wanted. But I guess we'll see You misunderstood that passage. He was referring to the Grail that Nicodemus wanted, which is why he was free to stash all the other items away before Nicodemus got there.
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May 27, 2014 13:57
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Tornhelm posted:You misunderstood that passage. No, when Harry got there is realized that the Grail was a front and Nick wanted something else. The Dagger is what Nick wanted (or at least what Harry believes Nick wanted.)
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May 27, 2014 14:06
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Holy poo poo that was good. And I only needed to stay up til 1am to finish it.
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May 27, 2014 14:07
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What a rush. That was really drat good.
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May 27, 2014 14:25
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Head full of rage kept me from sleeping, read the book instead Pretty good. I had some complaints developing through it but then the book had some reveals that nuked those gripes from orbit and made it all make sense in a way that didn't involve what I thought it did. The climax reveal* means I'm going to have to re-read it to see what was really going on in all those conversations. Really twisting my arm there. Trying to figure out the angle Tessa was playing there. Her comment about not throwing away 15 centuries of work means it wasn't her trying to save her daughter's life. Without knowing what Nick is planning with the grail we don't know how it will gently caress up her work or how it will, per Deirdre, save the world (though it actually saving the world would be the opposite of the apocalypse, and would presumably happen in #20, the prelude to the final trilogy and thus be counter to Nemesis, who Tessa appears to be allied with). Another possibility though is she could see this was a trap and assumed Nick would get caught in it, resulting in a rolling up of their whole operation. Which is what happened. That night torched a few millennia of work. *i'm assuming that is the climax. I got taught that "the climax is the most exciting part" which is an incredibly lovely and entirely subjective definition. There are loads of really exciting parts in any good book.
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May 27, 2014 14:38
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ImpAtom posted:No, when Harry got there is realized that the Grail was a front and Nick wanted something else. The Dagger is what Nick wanted (or at least what Harry believes Nick wanted.) quote:And upon the marble sat five simple objects. Followed by: quote:Five artifacts. Mab had promised Nicodemus that I would help him recover the Grail. She hadn’t said a damned thing about any of the others. So that meant that there were four things I could keep away from him, right here, right now. Nick hadn’t seen them yet, so he couldn’t know for certain that they were here.
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May 27, 2014 14:51
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Tornhelm posted:Try re-reading it. Maybe you should try rereading it. "I figure the Grail was a secondary goal," I said. "He really wanted something else." The knife was still in the pocket of my duster, now draped of the back of my chair in deference to the evening's warmth. Michael glanced at my coat and then nodded. You misunderstood what was going on there. Nick was using the Grail as a cover for what he really wanted, which Harry believes is the dagger. However Nick's deal with Harry was to recover the Grail which means Harry could, without breaking his agreement, take not only the artifact Nick really wanted (the dagger) but the other three as well. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:13 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 14:53
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ImpAtom posted:Maybe you should try rereading it. It's both. This is Nick, he structures his plans so he gets incremental pickups along the way. He was after the McGuffin while hoping that let him grab something else, just like he was after Marcone while hoping that it let him grab Ivy in Small Favor
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May 27, 2014 14:57
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Fried Chicken posted:It's both. This is Nick, he structures his plans so he gets incremental pickups along the way. He was after the McGuffin while hoping that let him grab something else, just like he was after Marcone while hoping that it let him grab Ivy in Small Favor That isn't what the book says though. Nick obviously wanted and took the Grail but it wasn't his primary objective. The actual mission was a failure for him because he sacrificed his daughter and while he got a powerful magical artifact out of it, it wasn't the one he specifically set out to get. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:04 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 14:58
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ImpAtom posted:That isn't what the book says though. Nick obviously wanted and took the Grail but it wasn't his primary objective. Which is different from what I said, how? He was after something more than the immediate McGuffin, just like how in SmF he was after something more than turning Marcone. He just set it up so if he "only" ended up with the McGuffin/Marcone he still came out ahead.
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May 27, 2014 15:02
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Fried Chicken posted:Which is different from what I said, how? He was after something more than the immediate McGuffin, just like how in SmF he was after something more than turning Marcone. He just set it up so if he "only" ended up with the McGuffin/Marcone he still came out ahead. Because in this case I don't think it actually worked out in Nick's plan. Really, it is kind of amazing just how badly Nick hosed up this book. He got played by Mab, Marcone and Hades like a fiddle. He killed his own daughter and the one person he seemed to have any trust for. He accidentally created a new Knight of the Cross with an even more powerful sword than before. He lost all his minions. At least two coins are currently trapped in the Greek Underworld with no clear way of getting out. Basically the only thing he got out of it was the Grail which is a pretty serious artifact but Dresden and Co/Mab came out with four artifacts of their own and a few million in diamonds to boot. This was not a "Nick didn't get what he wanted but came out ahead" book. Nick hosed up bad this book and almost completely ruined himself. He came out with the Grail, technically, but the book emphasizes that was just his cover story to disguise what he really wanted. That isn't coming out ahead. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:12 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 15:06
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ImpAtom posted:Maybe you should try rereading it. Michael glanced at my coat and then nodded. “What will you do with the other four?” And if you go back to where he was putting the items in, the OG shroud is in the jacket too, and we know Nicodemus used the Turin one to set off a pretty nasty spell - the real one's effects would be significantly stronger. This line gives a slight credence to your theory but all it really shows is that he recognised what the item that hit Harry's splint was and what it does. “I’d tell you to give me the knife, Dresden,” Nicodemus said, still smiling. “But unlike your friend, I don’t do second chances. And you won’t have any need for it in a moment.”
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May 27, 2014 15:13
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Tornhelm posted:It helps if you use the rest of the line instead of cherry-picking half of one. Because the rest of the line doesn't matter. The context makes it very clear that the dagger is what Nick was looking for. This isn't even a theory. It is stated in the book. Harry mentions the grail being a secondary goal right before emphasizing the dagger. It is also clearly a single artifact (Harry says this, again, in the thing you quoted) and not the artifacts as a whole, Nick specifically asks for the dagger, Harry specifically keeps the dagger on himself, ect, ect. There's no other way to read this. Nick would have taken the other artifacts but he was there for the Dagger, or so Harry believed and Nick seemed to confirm. Michael also mentions that he can't see how Nick can use the Grail for evil and that is what triggers Harry mentioning that the grail was probably a secondary concern. So while Nick can probably do something with it, it isn't as huge and obvious a bad mojo as the shroud was. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:22 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 15:15
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Nick didn't come out ahead because he deviated from his plan. He let Dresden press his buttons, broke faith with Mab, triggered the vault safeguards, and then made it personal going after the Carpenter house to hurt Dresden as bad as losing Deirdre hurt him. If he had waited to do his double cross after they were clear of the vault, or not gone after Maggie he would have come out ahead. Nick stopped being the cold calculating bastard we know and hate and let his emotions run the show when he was up against beings who are the anthesis of emotion. That is why he lost
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May 27, 2014 15:19
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Fried Chicken posted:Nick didn't come out ahead because he deviated from his plan. He let Dresden press his buttons, broke faith with Mab, triggered the vault safeguards, and then made it personal going after the Carpenter house to hurt Dresden as bad as losing Deirdre hurt him. If he had waited to do his double cross after they were clear of the vault, or not gone after Maggie he would have come out ahead. It didn't matter what Nick's plan was. The entire thing was a con job set up for him. Harry made it worse, as Harry always does, but Marcone, Mab and Hades set everything up from the start to gently caress him over. Even if Nick had gone 100% to plan and not let Dresden push his buttons, it wouldn't have mattered because Mab, Marcone and Hades set things up so Harry got the other four artifacts (by passing the test to prove himself worthy of them so they could be used as a weapon against the Outsiders) and Nick was forced to murder his own daughter. Short of Nick actually killing Harry, there was no way he was coming out ahead of the deal. Him going after Maggie turned it from bad to worse but he was hosed from the moment he started. The entire thing was a snowjob and Nick didn't realize it at all. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 15:27 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 15:21
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 23:19 |
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The title refers to a skin game. In old school con parlance meaning the mark has a lot at stake (his skin) and you play your con differently than you would a normal mark. He got skinned alive. Holy poo poo that was a good read. Game over man game over
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May 27, 2014 15:52
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