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Good pilot, the gay son and dick biting car crash seemed a little too OC for me but if they rectify the dumb family bullshit and we get a good show about Bassam turning into a Tyrant I could see it being my favorite show on TV. I so wasn't ready for Ashraf Barhom as a sociopathic rapist  Strabo4 posted:The average person pays no attention whatsoever to international events so Molly's ignorance didn't seem too out of place. The average person isn't married to Middle Eastern royalty and repeatedly push said spouse to interact with said royal family member with passive aggressive divorce threats either so that's a really dumb point. Midnight City fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 12:00
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Strabo4 posted:The average person pays no attention whatsoever to international events so Molly's ignorance didn't seem too out of place. And Barry probably played some part in that too, trying to bury his head in the sand and forget about his country and anything going on there. I think the show could go either way. The premise is interesting and it seems like they want to explore themes that don't show up in other shows, and that are very relevant to the current situation in that area. However, there are just so many things which stood out as bad writing or poorly thought through that I am very doubtful as to whether the show can be sustained. Of course its a matter of sticking with it for a bit more and seeing how the next episodes turned out. 1) Jamal is a ridiculous character of a man. He is a blatant "bad guy" and there is no development of this fact. We are hit in the face with a rape scene right off the bat to establish just how bad he is. Then he has to be restrained from torturing a man in a bathroom and then just so its clear for everyone, he rapes a wife between the dancing and the dessert course at her own wedding. Its cheap and using rape like this makes it really trivial. Its clear that this guy is supposed to be Uday Hussein and basically just a psychopath, but it could have been built up a bit better. I honestly hope he's gone because the character was too much. 2) Everyone speaks English. The upper class? okay everyone is rich and foreign educated, but can't we have a few throwaway phrases in Arabic besides the guys praying? All the random soldiers and servants are also fluent in English?? Everyone speaking English is obviously conceded to the audience, but a few phrases here and there would really help to build the atmosphere. 3) The family, specifically the wife. Ugh. Been covered enough already in this thread but the fact that everyone is just so uninformed. It seems that the obviously gay son is the only one who bothered to look it up. And then he loves it when he's actually there? Even though I'm sure considering his own particular situation and given the general context of this country, he must not be happy at the fact that at best homosexuals are forced to be closeted 24/7, if not actually legally prohibited from doing certain things (all the way up to further punishments like being hanged or whatever). Same thing goes for the sister, who is aware enough of gender issues and seems outspoken, but can't even drop a hint to mommy that there's mass executions in this place. Something which I've seen some people complain about, I don't think Rayner is a bad choice. Could they have picked an actor who is ethnically Arab? I'm sure there are quite a few, but I think that Rayner looks like a convincing Mediterranean upper-class Arab, and if this is Not-Syria then its not so bad. Its not like these people are inbred horse nobles from the middle of the desert. Rayner was a bit bland in my opinion, up until he snapped and hit his son. However I think that his attitude in the first episode can be forgiven in terms that he was just (reasonably) preoccupied with getting out of there asap. I hope that there is a turn towards being "Tyrant", and that we see the "positives" of dictatorial rule. The first episode hit us over the head with how evil this system is, lets throw a little ambiguity and have a more conflicted narrative.
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Jun 27, 2014 14:43
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I am looking forward to seeing how this show pans out. I have doubts about an Israeli being able to fairly tell a story about a Middle Eastern monarchy. Definitely set the record for the season, nothing else is on anyways, might as well watch above average television.
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Jun 27, 2014 15:27
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Oh yeah, I was surprised they showed realistic, isis-type, executions on cable, re: flashbacks to dudes getting a bullet to the head. Someone mentioned seeing the positives of dictatorial rule: the american ambassador was all about this, but it was admittedly overshadowed by the flashbacks, Jamal's rape scenes, bathroom torture, etc - the negatives.
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Jun 27, 2014 15:43
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Dirk Pitt posted:I have doubts about an Israeli being able to fairly tell a story about a Middle Eastern monarchy. I don't think you should be worried about his nationality, you should be worried that both his shows (Prisoners of War/Homeland) turned to extreme poo poo after only one season. He's not the showrunner of Homeland but still. Midnight City fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 15:50
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Gonz posted:The name of the show is Tyrant. Let's hope that's the plan. If it does happen, it probably won't be until the end of the season. Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:i really hope barry becomes the tyrant b/c that would be infinitely amusing w/ his daughter being all about smashing the patriarchy I have high hopes for this too, especially considering the whole Godfather vibe the pilot had with Barry in the Michael Corleone role. Also, I hope his bro gets to keep going more and more full-Uday/Sonny as the season progresses savinhill fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 09:29
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This should be pinned.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:00
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:This should be pinned. i lost plat so if someone else could pm mods please do. powers might have already, but im not sure.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:05
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I got distracted near the end, who was the woman who bit Jamal's dick?
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Jul 2, 2014 00:30
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We don't know, she was first shown at the beginning of the episode where he seemed to be raping her while her husband/son/some dude was sitting outside the room with some kids.
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Jul 2, 2014 00:36
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Midnight City posted:We don't know, she was first shown at the beginning of the episode where he seemed to be raping her while her husband/son/some dude was sitting outside the room with some kids. Oh ok, kind of looked like the same woman but I thought maybe I was just being racist since it didn't seem to make sense that she would be with him in his Lambo.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:43
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The writing of Bassam's wife makes it hard for me to enjoy this show. I get characters are written to be stupid or obtuse but the writers take it to a whole new level with her. Also The Strain looks bad rear end
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Jul 2, 2014 03:17
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FX has advanced to killing kids, I see. 
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Jul 2, 2014 03:36
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That's the first time I've ever seen children being executed on TV.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:37
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Next week on Tyrant: babies being shot, dogs being strangled, and puppies being blown up!
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Jul 2, 2014 03:41
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But still, no visible breasts. Apparently that's too much for FX.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:42
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Jamal to the doctor: "Speak English." Because clearly even though he lives in the Middle East, he doesn't speak anything else.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:02
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edit: the americans are ruining it aside from the main guy Baloogan fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 05:56
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The combination of the white actor playing the lead who's supposed to be Arab and everyone speaking English this show doesn't seem to be living up to the premise.
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Jul 2, 2014 06:21
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Shitenshi posted:Jamal to the doctor: "Speak English." Because clearly even though he lives in the Middle East, he doesn't speak anything else.
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Jul 2, 2014 06:41
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Dantes posted:Are you unfamiliar with this idiom ?
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Jul 2, 2014 07:17
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Shitenshi posted:A native of the Middle East living in the Middle East typically wouldn't use that phrase even if everyone in the country spoke English simply for the fact that it's in the loving Middle East.
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Jul 2, 2014 07:28
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Its pretty obvious he didn't understand the idiom.
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Jul 2, 2014 07:31
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Dantes posted:Are you saying that no language used in the middle east have an expression to ask someone else to speak more plainly ? I can't follow your logic here.
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Jul 2, 2014 07:45
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Man, everybody's going on about Jamal being Not-Uday Hussein, but he can equally be Not-Maher al-Assad! Here's hoping he gets both his legs blown up sometime soon. Anyway, yeah, not sure if I'm feeling the show as a whole. Ever since "House of Saddam" I thought that the premise could be pretty cool if not presented in a hamfisted way, but even though we're only two episodes in, the whole thing seems really undeveloped. Barry's family is pretty much a snoozefest when not actively annoying, the rest of the family drama is pretty half-baked, Barry goes from "get me out of here, this place is crazy hosed up and my relatives are nuts" to ~~the family's gotta stick together~~ in a heartbeat. All of that would be fine if the setting was more interesting, but so far it doesn't seem like they're going for a particularly nuanced or detailed depiction of middle east politics. I'll give it one more episode to see if some shady intrigue makes it more interesting, but I just don't think a bunch of family drama will manage to catch my attention all the way to the season finale. By the way, the season finale is going to be Barry shooting Jamal after Jamal finds out Barry has been boning his wife. e: 50% chance that Barry starts boning sort-of-evil sister-in-law after his wife sees him fleeing an assassination attempt and breaks down crying "what are you running away from????" SexyBlindfold fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 08:03
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SexyBlindfold posted:By the way, the season finale is going to be Barry shooting
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Jul 2, 2014 09:47
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Also, way to go Alice Krige, you managed to make your character even more loathsome this episode than the resident rapist. "Don't you think *I* wanted ~my~ Pasadena away from your father - and by extension - both you and your brother?" SexyBlindfold posted:e: 50% chance that Barry starts boning sort-of-evil sister-in-law after his wife sees him fleeing an assassination attempt and breaks down crying "what are you running away from????" In another two episodes I predict Barry's wife will have her own 5000 square foot house dedicated to her new shoe collection, be downing ten thousand dollar bottles of wine like bottled water, and will be taking 'the jet' to Paris every other day. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 10:23
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BIG HEADLINE posted:In another two episodes I predict Barry's wife will have her own 5000 square foot house dedicated to her new shoe collection, be downing ten thousand dollar bottles of wine like bottled water, and will be taking 'the jet' to Paris every other day. If that's not where her being offensively ignorant is leading to then I'm going to be very disappointed.
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Jul 2, 2014 10:36
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I liked ep2 better than the first one. Molly is extremely annoying and I echo those above in hoping that the only reason that she is just blatantly going to turn into an Asma al-Assad caricature. Regarding the English, I don't think FX is going to run a show that is subtitled 80%, especially subtitled from Arabic. However I do think that it could be managed a lot better. When Barry talks to the terrorist kids (the execution of which I have no problem with, that is a realistic depiction and I don't think it was drawn out) its clear that they're all speaking in Arabic. However, when Sammy speaks with the chief of security's son, they start off with a clumsy arabic greeting and then switch into English, which I think is a bit jarring. It would help a lot if minor characters who would in all likelihood not speak English just spoke in Arabic (when they bark orders at random goons, speak with soldiers, etc.). The checkpoint scene in the beginning of the episode would be a good way to build up the atmosphere in this way. It was short, nothing of consequence was said, and only a minor recurring character was present. Overall it keeps up the perception from e1 that it has a good premise but they keep tripping up over the details etc.
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Jul 2, 2014 12:15
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Xoidanor posted:If that's not where her being offensively ignorant is leading to then I'm going to be very disappointed. The other extreme is that she's CIA and was tasked with marrying him and playing Suzie Homemaker in the hopes he'd eventually get the itch to reclaim his birthright (or at least get some juicy intel). She does always seem to be attached to the hip of the d-bag US diplomat when she isn't trying to play Amateur Psychoanalyst. I know if I figured out my wife was a deep-cover operative who pretended to love me and bore my children simply because she wanted me to eventually cozy back up to my sociopathic murdering father solely for the potential I might be useful politically...I'd be a little miffed. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 12:45
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I think the show is interesting as far as the theme (middle eastern despot) has not yet been covered a lot in US tv, but the structure of the characters is pretty simplistic. We have: Jamal - Older brother, heir apperant, who never filled that role and relied a lot on his younger brother's support in his youth. The most important person's in his life probably would have preferred if he was the younger brother. He is probably aware of the one (his father) preferring Bassam but not of the other (his wif). He probably feels like Bassam is the only person who ever "loved" him for who he was and a later plot development will be that he loses it over the relationship between his wife and his brother. His relation to women is probably defined by the fact that his wife never loved actually loved him and was no virgin at the time of their marriage, whoever he does not know who "the other guy" is. While episode one hinted very strongly at this (the look his wife gave Bassam, his comment that she never loved him, his raping of other women and him making sure his son's wife is a virgin). Molly - Berry's wife who will later in the shows life represent his old (western) life as he it torn between his first love Leila and her. Additionally she will represent the warmer, human side of Berry while Leila will represent the rather cold, do what has to be done side. She seems to be very close to US diplomat John Tucker (she is already on first name basis with him) and might have an affair with him down the road, probably around the same time her husband rekindles his affair with Leila. Noah - First of all what the gently caress? Which son of an Arabic dictator gives his son a hebrew name? Well he is also gay (seems to be a requirement in show's now) and has taken a liking to the chief of security's son, who seems to reciprocate the affection but has probably a hidden agenda (radical Muslem who wants to use the relationship for something would be my guess). Noah at this point is pretty much reduced to spoiled gay kid who wants to gently caress the dark skinned guy he met in the steambath. Emma - Exposition vehicle for her brother and probably will later confront her Dad with human rights violations because she seems to have the most contact with the US (social media/ calls from her friend). And a bunch of other characters that are mostly foils for the main cast (e.g. Jamals son/daughter-in-law, Uncle Tariq, islamic terrorists etc.)
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Jul 2, 2014 14:01
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Tyrant: It's Tyrannical
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Jul 2, 2014 15:37
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I really want to like this show but it isn't clicking.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:41
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I can't remember being bored out of my mind by an early-series FX show episode, but I couldn't even make it through last night's episode. The standoff in the store was about the only thing that was interesting. I'm not even really wanting to go back and see the pilot, which is why I allowed myself to watch the recap when last night started.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:57
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I was concerned that my reaction to the wife was approaching that of a shitlord reacting to Skylar White, but it seems I wasn't alone in thinking she was pretty horrible and offensive. I'll give it another episode because the overall premise seems strong, but they crammed way too much into that pilot and went immediately for shock value so I'm not optimistic. Parts of it seemed to approach Kurt Sutter's Homeland to me.
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Jul 2, 2014 16:07
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Everything feels like paint by numbers. Oh we've gotta have the gay plot line, the secret childhood sex plot line, etc. If that wasn't bad enough it's not even slowly building into these things they're all just dumped out in front of you with no reason to give a poo poo about any of it. I'll give it one more episode but they went the entirely wrong way from the pilot.
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Jul 2, 2014 16:32
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I think my main problem with the show is that nobody's likable, both in the "interesting character/fun to look at" and the "decent person I can identify with" sense. Maybe it's just me, but it's a problem I see in most shows with a ~gritty~ setting. I mean, Jamal's kind of too over the top to work (other characters could bounce off him well, but you can't expect the audience to feel bad for Super-Rapist's daddy issues), Barry's dad never really gave a particularly patriarchal vibe in the couple of scenes we saw (plus his old man makeup was really bad), Barry's mom is A Bad And Boring Person, Molly hasn't had a believable/non-stupid line in two episodes, Barry's kids are either one-dimensional or barely get screentime, Jamal's wife is Bad At Acting, and Barry himself manages to sell some scenes, but I'm just not seeing a lot of moral conflict in his decisions. At least, the conflict isn't "being a despotic dictator and mass murderer is bad and I'm trying to be good" but rather "being a despotic dictator and mass murderer is hard work and I don't need that poo poo on my plate now so I wanna bail". At this point, the only characters we've come to know who aren't annoying or flat out assholes are Barry's chubby nephew (plus wife, I guess) and Journalist Guy (plus daughter?). The first seems like a pretty minor character (who's probably an rear end in a top hat anyway) and I don't know how much can we spend focusing on the second since he's detached from the rest of the major characters, unless Barry brings him aboard as an adviser or whatever. So yeah, like I said before and like others have said, I'm watching the next episode because the premise still has potential, but I don't have very high hopes for it.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:19
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It's slick how they are already re-tooling the Older Brother into a redeemable figure and shift the real problem is the Military Force Uncle.
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Jul 2, 2014 19:13
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I have decided to give this show to episode 4. If it hasn't won me over by then, my current suspicions that its not very good will be confirmed. Still, there's just enough of a glimmer of promise for me to give it two more episode before I write it off.
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Jul 2, 2014 19:58
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If it actually ends up having a "barry's wife is CIA" or a "barry's wife was working with his mother all along" reveal, i will laugh and laugh and laugh... No seriously, i don't get his wife's behavior at all so it's probably going to be some terrible reveal.
Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 20:16
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