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Curious as to what the Goon world would have to say about this. The below statement was posted by an FB friend who is pretty much a radical Black Panther type who thinks most whites are devils and out to get them. I say this not based on this one post, but on hundreds of others over the last few years. Most of his friends on FB are the same, as you can tell by the responses. Am I delusional to think that this would not have enough support in the 21st century USA to actually gain traction? "If whites had the chance, by morning slavery would be back with a vengeance......and they would make sure it lasted for all eternity this time YAY OR NAY?" 
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Jun 14, 2014 17:33
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MarksMan posted:Curious as to what the Goon world would have to say about this. The below statement was posted by an FB friend who is pretty much a radical Black Panther type who thinks most whites are devils and out to get them. I say this not based on this one post, but on hundreds of others over the last few years. Most of his friends on FB are the same, as you can tell by the responses. Am I delusional to think that this would not have enough support in the 21st century USA to actually gain traction? As it is, the prison system is basically just slavery 2.0 Make up bullshit reasons to send minorities to jail and then hire them out for 15 cents an hour as physical labor. Boom. You've re-invented the idea of slavery. Now, bringing slavery back as it was previously? No. I kind of doubt it. Slavery is bad, has been ingrained into our school system. Which is why the prison system formed. It's not slavery, it's what happens when you break the law. And you can break the law by doing just about anything nowadays.
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Jun 14, 2014 17:37
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E-Tank posted:As it is, the prison system is basically just slavery 2.0 While I agree about the prison system being a form of slavery 2.0, I would have to say it's not ONLY minorities being sent to prison to work for pennies an hour. I'm white and from a lower middle class background and I got locked up when I was 16 over 3 joints of weed (don't EVER move to Wyoming.)
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Jun 14, 2014 17:41
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IMO you'd get better input on this topic from GBS.
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Jun 14, 2014 17:42
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wateroverfire posted:IMO you'd get better input on this topic from GBS. Hmm, you really think so? I could x-post it there, but I thought here is where people would say it should go. I've been on SA for like 13 years now, but I haven't visited GBS in probably 7 years or more. Am I wrong to think I would just get sarcastic and non-serious comments from them?
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Jun 14, 2014 17:43
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We're not a monolithic group. The Cliven Bundy hick types probably would. They'd also probably get their asses handed to them in the following uprising. They are sincere racists and as such would completely underestimate the people they sought to enslave.
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Jun 14, 2014 17:45
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The GOP is about hair away from adopting slavery as a plank in their platform so maybe.
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Jun 14, 2014 17:47
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There are a few issues with re-instituting slavery in the way mentioned: - Are all states "forever slave owning states", or can they choose? Even in the Antebellum period you had lots of states that banned slavery. - Who is being enslaved? For example, are only black people being enslaved, or are Hispanics fair game too? Are Asians and Native Americans also potential slaves? After determining that, who would actually be enslaved? Would it be a punishment for a crime? Would everyone of that race become slaves automatically? Assuming it's put to a nationwide vote of white people, the chances of it passing seem slim because the states that would directly benefit from slaves are not very populated and/or white (eg, Texas is minority-majority, Alabama only has 4 million people, 2/3 of which are white). If you let individual states decide there's a better chance of passing but it would be confined to places that it would make economic sense. Also there's a fairly good chance that the Bundy types (as in the actual "gently caress the government" militas) would vote against it because it's the government making people slaves (just like they do with taxes etc etc).
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Jun 14, 2014 17:49
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computer parts posted:There are a few issues with re-instituting slavery in the way mentioned: Here's what they had to say when I dare mention the rational fact that this would have to be voted on and get a majority...it's a "disgusting statement":  Am I the one missing something here? Am I just so fooled by my whiteness that I don't see these "realities" they speak ok? Because to me it just sounds like a bunch of BS and Black Panther-type rhetoric this "Joe" is saying MarksMan fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 17:54
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Why would anyone in power bother re-instituting slavery when the near indentured servitude of the working poor is so convenient? It has the added benefit of not being limited to a single race and lacks the moral resistance that codified ownership of human beings causes.
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Jun 14, 2014 18:08
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Is this guy under the illusion that anyone other than whites abolished slavery in the Western world in the first place?
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Jun 14, 2014 19:02
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Sucrose posted:Is this guy under the illusion that anyone other than whites abolished slavery in the Western world in the first place? They are under many delusions. We are the white devils. "We" are holding them back, "we" are supplying all the drugs in the hood, "we" want to keep them down and have vast, elaborate, long-ranging conspiracies to do so.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:04
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I think you're approaching this question in the wrong way. It's not a matter of what 'whites' want or feel is moral. Slavery wasn't the result of some kind of moral failing in our ancestors it was the result of economic necessity. In order to achieve the result they wanted, in order to maintain a lifestyle, the south needed slaves. They came up with various ways to justify their cruelty but racism is just an excuse --- its way to not feel like poo poo for hoping others are disenfranchised so that you may benefit. Now, today, in this world slavery is not required in our country in order to maintain our lifestyles. Now we can brutalize faceless people thousands of miles away and we don't even need to literally own them because we control their ability to support themselves. Which isn't to say that the US doesn't disenfranchise its own populous because we do but we're specifically talking about slavery and the institution of slavery has become obsolete in the world we live in today.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:18
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MarksMan posted:They are under many delusions. We are the white devils. "We" are holding them back, "we" are supplying all the drugs in the hood, "we" want to keep them down and have vast, elaborate, long-ranging conspiracies to do so.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:21
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MarksMan posted:They are under many delusions. We are the white devils. "We" are holding them back, "we" are supplying all the drugs in the hood, "we" want to keep them down and have vast, elaborate, long-ranging conspiracies to do so. You know, If you just wanted people to agree your crazy email forward is crazy, we got a thread already for that. Also... Why did you cut out your reply? Hard to follow this without it.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:22
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Sucrose posted:Is this guy under the illusion that anyone other than whites abolished slavery in the Western world in the first place? Depends on which part of it you're talking about. Rogue0071 fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 19:23
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Sardine Wit posted:You know, If you just wanted people to agree your crazy email forward is crazy, we got a thread already for that. Also... Here was my reply: "Joe: Ok nice job of taking what I said out of context and ignoring all other factual points. I was simply elaborating the point that even if it got SOME support, which I predict would be in the single digits, less than 10% if that, it would never get anywhere near a majority, which would be required to "revive" slavery. Or do you think that "us" whites would put in power "our" white dictator who would just remove the Congress, institute slavery and be damned laws, voting, discussion, etc?"
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Jun 14, 2014 19:26
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The question isn't whether or not whites would do it. After all not all whites instituted slavery, and in the beginning they also enslaved other whites. The question is better framed as whether rich people would bring back chattel slavery. And the answer is no, there's way too much money to be made off the poor to ever take responsibility for feeding and clothing them.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:27
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MarksMan posted:They are under many delusions. We are the white devils. "We" are holding them back, "we" are supplying all the drugs in the hood, "we" want to keep them down and have vast, elaborate, long-ranging conspiracies to do so. I'm sort of hesitant to agree with this. It smacks of 'whitesplaining'. There is still racism, there is still an emphasis on keeping black people down. You can't just say 'Oh there's no more racism in the system that was *built* by racist pricks, and therefore has racism in the very foundation'. I think I found a good way to describe it. White people cannot be victims of racism. Not to any comparable level to blacks, because they've been the oppressors for so long, and because the system is built to arbitrarily favor them. They can be victims of prejudice, but that's about it. Unfortunately the only way to change the system is slowly via protests and refusal to take this poo poo. Short of a bloody revolution, that's basically the only way to go without beating your head against a wall, and even then its not a sure thing. As it is protesters are more often than not just considered to be rioters under a different name, and the cops react accordingly.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:27
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zeroprime posted:Why would anyone in power bother re-instituting slavery when the near indentured servitude of the working poor is so convenient? It has the added benefit of not being limited to a single race and lacks the moral resistance that codified ownership of human beings causes. Yeah, basically this. Wage slavery (from the capitalist's POV) is a superior system in almost every way.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:28
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In the post-industrial capitalism of the core countries, the bourgeoisie requires an educated, skilled and self-disciplining work force. These aren't compatible with slavery. In the industrial semi-periphery, it is cheaper to replace disciplining of slaves with capital goods. In the resource extracting periphery, slavery continues to exist today. Wallerstein, Capitalist Agriculture and the Origins of the European World-Economy in the Sixteenth Century: "Why different modes of organising labour - slavery, feudalism, wage labour, self-employment - at the same point in time within the world-economy? Because each mode of labour control is best suited for particular types of production. And why were these modes concentrated in different zones of the world-economy - slavery and feudalism in the periphery, wage labour and self-employment in the core, and as we shall see share-cropping in the semi-periphery? Because the modes of labour control greatly affect the political system (in particular the strength of the state apparatus) and the possibilities for an indigenous bourgeoisie to thrive. The world-economy was based precisely on the assumption that there were in fact these three zones and that they did in fact have different modes of labour control. Were this not so, it would not have been possible to assure the kind of flow of the surplus which enabled the capitalist system to come into existence."
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Jun 14, 2014 19:35
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Oh, in the USA only. I just read the thread title and assumed you were including Asia, Eastern Europe or the Middle East (and surely Africa too) where slavery by "minorities" (they're not minorities in their own countries) is the norm. Here's a lovely report from just this week: http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/jun/10/supermarket-prawns-thailand-produced-slave-labour Don't worry, though, as usual, you benefit without having to see it, so it's different.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:37
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Slavery was a long-standing practice in Africa before the Europeans showed up, with slaves captured by other African tribes being sold to the Ottoman Empire for centuries beforehand. Apparently some North African states still practice outright slavery to this very day. It's not all about white racism and Africans were participants as well as victims of the slave trade. Arguably, if the Africans and Ottomans hadn't already set up a fully functioning system of slavery before the Europeans showed up then there might not have been any slaves transported to Africa at all, since it wasn't a European invention in the first place. That's not to say that there wasn't immense cruelty and suffering inflicted by the Europeans/colonialists on the African slaves. There were powerful economic motivations for slavery in America, which probably had a lot more to do with slavery being propagated than some all-consuming desire of whites to dominate blacks. Dehumanizing the slaves through an ideology of racial supremacy was no doubt convenient to keep the system going; otherwise there might be (and was) a moral outcry against the practice. Racism is probably more of a symptom than a cause of slavery.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:40
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Jim Barris posted:They're right. Nope, and such beliefs are just as racist as any tea partier. Mukip posted:There were powerful economic motivations for slavery in America, which probably had a lot more to do with slavery being propagated than some all-consuming desire of whites to dominate blacks. Dehumanizing the slaves through an ideology of racial supremacy was no doubt convenient to keep the system going; otherwise there might be (and was) a moral outcry against the practice. Racism is probably more of a symptom than a cause of slavery. Yep, people do not like to be bad or evil or whatever - racism was a handy justification for slavery. A way to make people equivalent to work animals or tools, things that people don't feel bad about using. enbot fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 19:44
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E: Whoops, sorry Enbot. I mistook you for someone else. Look, the thing is that its not 'just as racist'. Prejudiced? Maybe. But y'know what, I'd be more inclined to believe it's just as racist in a truly non-racist system without any racism hidden in the cracks of the foundation. Think of it as a house that was once made of wood, then got re-designed to be out of brick. But there's still wood in the house. It's still there. Festering. Rotting. And it's going to be a lot of work to get that wood out. E-Tank fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 19:48
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My 80 year old grandmother from Arkansas told me black people were better off under slavery than today. So maybe some really old southerners would.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:48
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Why reinstitute old-school plantation slavery? It's not very economically efficient for a modern country like the US. Machines and part-time laborers do a far better job of handling the labor a modern slave would conceivably do in the US.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:49
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E-Tank posted:Oh hey, it's our resident Nazi poster. gently caress off.  gently caress off yourself, rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:49
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E-Tank posted:E: Or was that Em something... Emden - unless enbot is a parachute account or something.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:54
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ThirdPartyView posted:Emden - unless enbot is a parachute account or something. Aha, That'd explain it. Sorry enbot, mistaken identity. 
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Jun 14, 2014 19:55
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E-Tank posted:Aha, That'd explain it. Sorry enbot, mistaken identity. A helpful hint, if he's not outright calling for white supremacy, he's probably not emden.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:02
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enbot posted:Nope, and such beliefs are just as racist as any tea partier. No? Being prejudiced against people with more power than you isn't nearly the same as being prejudiced against people with far less power. In some philosophical way I guess it is, but - practically - the effects of each of these forms of bigotry are drastically different.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:36
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I don't see why we'd decide to start something we ended.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:41
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enbot posted:Nope, and such beliefs are just as racist as any tea partier. Is a black guy getting led by a white lynch mob to his death because he looked at a white woman the wrong way "just as racist" as the mob if he thinks, just before the noose is slipped over his neck, "Man, I hate white people."
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Jun 14, 2014 20:45
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So can anyone advance an convincing argument that whites in the US would re-institute slavery if allowed to that is not based on paranoia? I have to repeat my question as to what the point of re-instituting slavery would be in an economy where unskilled labor is not particularly valued anymore. Slavery's initial practice and growth in the US was driven by shortages of manual laborers as much as anything else, and there's no real lack of those in the modern US.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:45
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E-Tank posted:As it is, the prison system is basically just slavery 2.0 Angola Prison 
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Jun 14, 2014 20:49
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MarksMan posted:Here's what they had to say when I dare mention the rational fact that this would have to be voted on and get a majority...it's a "disgusting statement": Are you really begging goons for ammo to help you win a ridiculous facebook argument? Actual slavery isn't going to come back because there are plenty of legal ways to oppress and exploit people of color.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:02
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We already did re-institute slavery it's called the modern prison system That's pretty much the start and end of the discussion 
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Jun 14, 2014 21:04
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Mukip posted:Slavery was a long-standing practice in Africa before the Europeans showed up, with slaves captured by other African tribes being sold to the Ottoman Empire for centuries beforehand. Apparently some North African states still practice outright slavery to this very day. It's not all about white racism and Africans were participants as well as victims of the slave trade. Arguably, if the Africans and Ottomans hadn't already set up a fully functioning system of slavery before the Europeans showed up then there might not have been any slaves transported to Africa at all, since it wasn't a European invention in the first place. That's not to say that there wasn't immense cruelty and suffering inflicted by the Europeans/colonialists on the African slaves. You realize white supremacists love this bullshit argument, right? Slavery existing across the ancient and medieval world, including Europe, does not absolve Europeans from the mass forced migration of African chattel slaves to be worked to death in the Americas. Slavery isn't a European or African invention, it is a Human invention because we historically are terrible to each other. There's no way to argue this point that 'Africans did it first!' without sounding like a massive tool. The Atlantic Slave Trade may not have been directly based in racism but it very quickly created a deep and pervasive racism against Africans in the Americas which easily transferred over to Africans in general.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:09
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New Division posted:So can anyone advance an convincing argument that whites in the US would re-institute slavery if allowed to that is not based on paranoia? I have to repeat my question as to what the point of re-instituting slavery would be in an economy where unskilled labor is not particularly valued anymore. Slavery's initial practice and growth in the US was driven by shortages of manual laborers as much as anything else, and there's no real lack of those in the modern US. There's a new fad for slaves you have sex with.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:27
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