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Mel Mudkiper posted:Yeah I always saw that book as like a Franzen novel that wasn't irretrievably up its own rear end I still haven't read Franzen because of this prevalent opinion. I have The Corrections on my shelf, but I want to try and get through The Vegetarian so I can contribute to that thread before it closes. I feel guilty for procrastinating on BOTM when it's something already on my list. Rusty posted:John Irving books remind me of the Art of Fielding, but a lot better. I really disliked The Art of Fielding in just about every way. Irving books hit a lot of the same beats but have interesting characters. I liked Affenlight, he's a good character. Irving is good. I re-read A Prayer for Owen Meany this year, and it holds up. Hits similar themes about friendship, but with more talk about faith vs. religion and the loneliness of a life constantly looking to the past (with a failing memory). And hatred for 'Nam.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:01
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Franchescanado posted:I still haven't read Franzen because of this prevalent opinion. I have The Corrections on my shelf, but I want to try and get through The Vegetarian so I can contribute to that thread before it closes. I feel guilty for procrastinating on BOTM when it's something already on my list. The Corrections is very very good and probably the closest to The Art of Fielding in terms of style and tone. It was also his first book to break big so he didn't quite start seeing himself as the prophet of americana yet. Empire Falls by Richard Russo also hits similar in terms of content and style to both books.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:06
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Franchescanado posted:I liked Affenlight, he's a good character.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:07
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Rusty posted:Yeah, he was okay, it wasn't all bad, I just thought a lot of the characters fell flat and the plot was weird the way large parts of it were just skipped in a sentence.. When compared to characters like Owen Meanie and Dr. Larch or Homer Wells, it seemed one dimensional. I am not sure why, but I was thinking of Cider House Rules when I read Art of Fielding, so maybe it wasn't fair to compare the two. They seems similar to me for some reason though, so I couldn't look past it. I think I saw this comment right before I started reading. I can see how you'd make that correlation, but I wasn't bothered, since the book did well when capturing different causes/forms of depression and anxiety with chasing a perfect life. Mel Mudkiper posted:The Corrections is very very good and I'll bump them up on my reading list, then.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:56
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Any book where every character is obsessed with Herman Melville is pretty cool.
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Jun 28, 2016 23:57
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Any specific aspect of the style? Other people have mentioned Franzen and Irving, who I find similar. You recommended I Am Radar last year which I read and I thought was close; I guess what I'm looking for are large novels with well developed characters that chart a person(s) experiences and the effect/influence of the people around them. Being set in New England doesn't hurt. I've had Russo pushed on me for a while so I might read one of his books. Has anyone read Women and Men by Joseph McElroy? It seems similar to that but with a large dash of Pychon/Gaddis.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:06
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Cloks posted:Has anyone read Women and Men by Joseph McElroy? It seems similar to that but with a large dash of Pychon/Gaddis. It's also impossible to find without spending over $100, apparantly
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Jun 29, 2016 00:09
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blue squares posted:It's also impossible to find without spending over $100, apparantly University library / OhioLink library catalog.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:48
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Cloks posted:Other people have mentioned Franzen and Irving, who I find similar. You recommended I Am Radar last year which I read and I thought was close; I guess what I'm looking for are large novels with well developed characters that chart a person(s) experiences and the effect/influence of the people around them. Being set in New England doesn't hurt. The Goldfinch definitely Empire Falls like I said There are a few others on the tip of my tongue. Will go through my library when I get home.
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Jun 29, 2016 00:55
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Aquarium was good and also very, very sad.
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Jun 29, 2016 01:21
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I just finished Ubik by Phillip K. Dick and Dhalgren by Samuel R. Delaney. Not sure I'd call those books "real literature" but they were pretty solid. Dhalgren kind of fell in on itself after about 400 pages or so. Still not quite sure about the use of under erasure. Probably something to do with wounding like the rest of the book? Just started One Hundred Years of Solitude and I'd say it lives up to the hype. A lot funnier than I thought it would be too. The scenes with the insomnia disease were hilarious.
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Jun 29, 2016 01:27
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One Hundred Years of Solitude doesn't have "hype", it's one of the most acclaimed novels of the 20th century and a part of the modern western canon. Please respect literary art and don't talk about it in terms you would use for rap mixtapes.
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Jun 29, 2016 01:33
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Quandary posted:Aquarium was good and also very, very sad. The Vann Clan grows yet stronger. Aquarium is probably the book that is most hopeful and optimistic about the human condition he has ever written. Let that one sink in. Anyways Cloks, other books like I Am Radar, The Corrections, and The Art of Fielding -The Green Road by Anne Enright -&Sons by David Gilbert -City on Fire by Garth Risk Hallberg (I didn't really like it tbh but blue squares swears by it) -In the Language of Miracles by Rajia Hassib -Remember Me like This - Bret Anthony Johnston -Everything I Never Told You - Celeste Ng
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Jun 29, 2016 01:37
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Idiootti posted:Top 2 fishing books: The Old Man and the Sea, Moby Dick. The Compleat Angler dude
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Jun 29, 2016 01:47
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A human heart posted:The Compleat Angler dude Trout Fishing in America
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Jun 29, 2016 01:48
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movies are better than books imho
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Jun 29, 2016 01:48
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Mel Mudkiper posted:-City on Fire by Garth Risk Hallberg (I didn't really like it tbh but blue squares swears by it) Hell yes I do. Mel didn't like the characters, and I understand why. But I liked them a lot. One thing that helped me was to think of it like the novelization of an HBO television show. The writer himself (or maybe it was just articles about the book) frequently compared its structure to a prestige TV miniseries. The characters fit the model of television characters more than they do typical literary characters. Meaning they go further, have big moments where they must choose to be one kind of person or another kind. There is a clear villain who seems unrealistic unless you think of him like a television character that audiences are meant to hate. It's like it was written with the screen in mind, in terms of overarching stuff and character development. But the writing itself is superb and often very funny.
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Jun 29, 2016 01:53
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blue squares posted:Hell yes I do. Mel didn't like the characters, and I understand why. But I liked them a lot. One thing that helped me was to think of it like the novelization of an HBO television show. The writer himself (or maybe it was just articles about the book) frequently compared its structure to a prestige TV miniseries. The characters fit the model of television characters more than they do typical literary characters. Meaning they go further, have big moments where they must choose to be one kind of person or another kind. There is a clear villain who seems unrealistic unless you think of him like a television character that audiences are meant to hate. If you want to read a book written to be a movie let me tell you about this dude named Michael Crichton If the best thing you can say about a piece of art is that it is like a really good version of another kind of art, it has failed on its own merits.
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Jun 29, 2016 01:55
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Movies are for children and TV shows are for literal babies
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Jun 29, 2016 02:13
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Different forms of art influence each other. Shocking.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:16
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Though I admit I pulled that post out of my rear end and the only thing I was thinking as I read it was "this is exciting and good" Successful fiction, in my personal opinion, has two goals. Tell a good story and make me feel genuine empathy with the characters. I know lots of other people disagree but that's what I find rewarding about fiction. Lately I've begun to feel that films do this better. I've spent this summer doing a comprehensive study of the history of film and it's opened up a whole new world to me. blue squares fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 02:20
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Ras Het posted:Movies are for children and TV shows are for literal babies Thats just because you haven't found someone to tell you what to watch to appear erudite yet blue squares posted:Successful fiction, in my personal opinion, has two goals. Tell a good story and make me feel genuine empathy with the characters. I know lots of other people disagree but that's what I find rewarding about fiction. I think this is a pretty impossibly broad criterion though. I am also kind of curious how someone does a comprehensive study of film history in a summer that isn't even half over.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:24
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Thats just because you haven't found someone to tell you what to watch to appear erudite yet No I'm pretty sure that's happened
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Jun 29, 2016 02:28
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I am also kind of curious how someone does a comprehensive study of film history in a summer that isn't even half over. I'm still on the '50s. I'm also unemployed
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Jun 29, 2016 02:30
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I think comparisons between film and books have always been kind of superficial as well. They are both popular mediums for story-telling, but the truly excellent works in both mediums have succeeded because of the unique methods of narrative they contain. Michael Haneke and Krystof Kieslowski, for example, could never be effectively translated to fiction. The core of their art is too inseperable from the visual. In the same way, attempts to convert Hemingway or Faulkner, for example, to film have always been tremendously underwhelming artistic failures. The core of their talent is too inseparable from the nature of writing .
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Jun 29, 2016 02:31
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I think this is a pretty impossibly broad criterion though. I am also kind of curious how someone does a comprehensive study of film history in a summer that isn't even half over. Any criterion for "successful fiction" will need to be very broad because fiction comes in so many diverse forms. What I mean is that something extremely experimental like Eraserhead or Last Year at Marienbad, for example, doesn't hook me as much. They have their merits, but I'm not able to truly empathize with the characters and feel emotion. I've been falling out of love with Pynchon and other postmodernists for the same reason. Too often their works lack emotional impact. The thing that films do better for me personally is provoke an emotional response. Also, audio stories/podcasts. The human voice makes such a difference. I've read plenty of books that have made me feel strong emotions, but movies elicit a response much more frequently. I'm a softie.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:35
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Mel Mudkiper posted:The Vann Clan grows yet stronger. I've read City on Fire and Goldfinch. Loved Goldfinch, was pretty indifferent to City on Fire. This is the second time you've recommend &Sons to me so I'll probably read it this time.
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Jun 29, 2016 02:36
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You always mention Pynchon's shallow characters, but everything he writes has characters that are fleshed out. The dude is willing to write one-off or short characters, and his books sometimes reach the hundred, but he always gives you people to root for. V. is almost half devoted to Benny Profane. Pynchon's style is growing in the book, but Benny keeps you moving in the story. Gravity's Rainbow gives you Slothrop, who starts off human, but deteriorates throughout. With that, Roger Mexico goes from being a heartbroken side character that carries the emotions and love of the war and becomes a loving hero. That and hundreds of others, from jokes to Byron the Bulb. Vineland is flawed for many reasons, but it has the largest cast of fleshed out characters. Zoyd and Priarie are some of his most sympathetic characters. And Doc Sportello is one of my favorite literary characters and happens to be in Pynchon's funniest book
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Jun 29, 2016 02:44
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blue squares posted:Though I admit I pulled that post out of my rear end and the only thing I was thinking as I read it was "this is exciting and good" Successful fic, for me, personally, has one goal, which is to create a platform for the musings & philosophizing of a genius; this is why the only good books are In Search of Lost Time and The Man Without Qualities.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:07
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For books on fishing, David James Duncan's The River Why. It's a bit ridiculous, but good. For a book that has Irving-esque characters and plot, The Brothers K by David James Duncan. Loved that book so drat much.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:35
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Ras Het posted:One Hundred Years of Solitude doesn't have "hype", it's one of the most acclaimed novels of the 20th century and a part of the modern western canon. Please respect literary art and don't talk about it in terms you would use for rap mixtapes. 🔥 OHYoS 🔥 IS 🔥 STRAIGHT🔥 LIT🔥
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Jun 29, 2016 11:04
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Yeah I read One Hundred Years of Solitude too, it appears to be semi-edgy YA fantasycore for people who want to pretend they are reading something good. Recommended for same people who like the adult Harry Potter, The Metamorphosis. It was entertaining but if it wasn't Latin American it'd be discussed at goodreads and foreveryoungadult.com instead of lit magazines.
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Jun 29, 2016 14:18
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Yeah I read One Hundred Years of Solitude too, it appears to be semi-edgy YA fantasycore for people who want to pretend they are reading something good. Recommended for same people who like the adult Harry Potter, The Metamorphosis. It was entertaining but if it wasn't Latin American it'd be discussed at goodreads and foreveryoungadult.com instead of lit magazines. I would say good fakepost, but you've been posting like this for 100 pages, so 
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Jun 29, 2016 14:25
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david crosby posted:I would say good fakepost, but you've been posting like this for 100 pages, so It's an exact quote from that one guy except word replaced
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Jun 29, 2016 14:27
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mallamp!
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Jun 29, 2016 14:28
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^^ that's the name I was trying to think of (it was on the tip of my tongue) ^^
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Jun 29, 2016 14:28
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Yeah I read One Hundred Years of Solitude too, it appears to be semi-edgy YA fantasycore for people who want to pretend they are reading something good. Recommended for same people who like the adult Harry Potter, The Metamorphosis. It was entertaining but if it wasn't Latin American it'd be discussed at goodreads and foreveryoungadult.com instead of lit magazines. I love this meme
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Jun 29, 2016 14:34
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david crosby posted:I would say good fakepost, but you've been posting like this for 100 pages, so I actually tend to be very positive about literary fiction in general and have only ever expressed disdain for Calvino and Borges so I do not think your comments about my posting habits are really very accurate.
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Jun 29, 2016 14:47
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Guy A. Person posted:mallamp! Mall amped again! Shucks
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Jun 29, 2016 15:11
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I actually tend to be very positive about literary fiction in general and have only ever expressed disdain for Calvino and Borges so I do not think your comments about my posting habits are really very accurate. Yeah but that's a colossal gaffe, dog.
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Jun 29, 2016 15:13
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