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Zedd posted:I hope non-US news is okay here: Cool! How's your access to mental health care over there? Is the evaluation something that most transgender people are able to get? I know Sweden only ended their forced sterilization policy last year, how did that ever become a thing? Here in the US it's a patchwork of course, but to get your passport changed you need to show a note from a doctor saying you've had "appropriate clinical treatment," which is defined only by your doctor. And yes, non-US news is definitely okay here.
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Jul 1, 2014 19:18
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Sharkie posted:People have every right to claim any characteristic is a "dealbreaker" when it comes to their personal choices for relationships, but there's a lot of bigoted and harmful generalizations about bi people in that post, for sure, including Of course they do. But if you're going to say "I would never have sex with a bisexual" I'm going to point out that you're a stupid, hateful bigot, just as I (and everybody else in this thread would) if you said "I would never have sex with a black person." Nobody's trying to suggest that you shouldn't be allowed not to have sex with someone for whatever reasons you want, merely that an absolute and inviolable right to make a given choice does not mean you get immunity from criticism from the choice you make. When did it become this kind of taboo thing to criticise someone's sexual proclivities or hang-ups if they're actually stupid and/or betray harmful prejudices? I've encountered this elsewhere and in different contexts too. Many seem to think that just because nobody had any right to stop you doing whatever you like with consensual adults in your own bedroom means that nobody has any right to point out the fact that you like to tie women up and hit them during sex might say something pretty important about you to a lot of people. That you've got a willing participant in your violent pastime is irrelevant - the fact that you have a desire to engage in recreational violence (or hold any other politically problematic proclivity) is absolutely open to critique. Smudgie Buggler fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 19:55
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Smudgie Buggler posted:Of course they do. But if you're going to say "I would never have sex with a bisexual" I'm going to point out that you're a stupid, hateful bigot, just as I (and everybody else in this thread would) if you said "I would never have sex with a black person." Nobody's trying to suggest that you shouldn't be allowed not to have sex with someone for whatever reasons you want, merely that an absolute and inviolable right to make a given choice does not mean you get immunity from criticism from the choice you make. Because people have their own sexual agency and don't have to submit to your political agenda of "criticism" for not loving the people you deem ideologically correct. Hiding behind "not allowed" doesn't excuse it. There is no difference between "you're obligated to sleep with bisexuals and Cambodians because I say so", "you're going to Hell for being gay" and "loving friendzoning bitch didn't suck me off even though I held the door open for her" by this "any criticism short of legally mandating who you are allowed to have a relationship with is great" bullshit standard. quote:I've encountered this elsewhere and in different contexts too. Many seem to think that just because nobody had any right to stop you doing whatever you like with consensual adults in your own bedroom means that nobody has any right to point out the fact that you like to tie women up and hit them during sex might say something pretty important about you to a lot of people. That you've got a willing participant in your violent pastime is irrelevant - the fact that you have a desire to engage in recreational violence (or hold any other politically problematic proclivity) is absolutely open to critique. Someone deciding they aren't attracted to you is not "recreational violence," you drama queen. Nor is it akin to the sort of issues that make people get off by whipping each other. It's them not being attracted to you. It's not a political statement. People exist as individuals and get to decide who they want to sleep with without running it by you for Correct Marxist Purity. Jesus.
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Jul 1, 2014 20:06
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Smudgie Buggler posted:Of course they do. But if you're going to say "I would never have sex with a bisexual" I'm going to point out that you're a stupid, hateful bigot, just as I (and everybody else in this thread would) if you said "I would never have sex with a black person." Nobody's trying to suggest that you shouldn't be allowed not to have sex with someone for whatever reasons you want, merely that an absolute and inviolable right to make a given choice does not mean you get immunity from criticism from the choice you make. well on the other hand going hog wild with the personal is political mindset and scouring every aspect of someone's personality for 'problematic' elements is loving exhausting. its like youre on a leftist kick for soviet purges and looking for comrades with insufficiently revolutionary thoughts. of course every single person that has ever said 'dont kinkshame' is loving hilarious and just whining Dont be mean to me!!!!
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Jul 1, 2014 20:09
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meat sweats posted:Someone deciding they aren't attracted to you is not "recreational violence," you drama queen. Nor is it akin to the sort of issues that make people get off by whipping each other. It's them not being attracted to you. It's not a political statement. Uh, this ain't even remotely close to the point I'm making, but nice try. I have never once in my entire life felt as if someone not wanting to sleep with me was any sort of injustice, and I can't help but think you're a bit loving stupid because I simply can't understand why you thought I was whining about people not wanting to sleep with me. This isn't about me, it's about it being perfectly reasonable to call out the prejudices and problematic tendencies that underpin the sexual choices people make for what they are! Do you really think it's out of line for me to raise an eyebrow at a dom dude who gets off on hitting women and ask, "Why the gently caress is violence what floats your boat?" quote:People exist as individuals and get to decide who they want to sleep with without running it by you for Correct Marxist Purity. Jesus. If you don't actually have a problem with that, which, unless you're a proper psychopath or a massive racist yourself, you won't, can you please draw a line between "I won't have sex with black people" and "I won't have sex with bisexual people" as statements of preference that are so wildly different that one is immune from criticism while the other isn't? What the gently caress is malfunctioning in your brain that you can't comprehend the simple fact that you can look at a person's choice and simultaneously recognise that you have no right to alter or interfere with that choice yet still acknowledge that choice as absolutely irrational and rooted in socially harmful prejudices?
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Jul 1, 2014 20:36
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Smudgie Buggler posted:it's about it being perfectly reasonable to call out the prejudices and problematic tendencies that underpin the sexual choices people make for what they are! When did you choose your sexual preferences? I know I had a hell of a time filling out all the bubble sheets at age 12. quote:Do you really think it's out of line for me to raise an eyebrow at a dom dude who gets off on hitting women and ask, "Why the gently caress is violence what floats your boat?" I think it's out of line for you to compare someone who has a disordered sexuality that requires them to commit violence to get a boner to someone who just politely declines your request for a date, yeah. quote:Yes, moron. People do get to decide who they want to sleep with. But are you seriously telling me that some fuckhead who proclaims "I would only ever sleep with a white person" shouldn't be called out for being a bigot and a fuckwit? Which is a thing you can do, by the way, while still acknowledging their absolute right to choose their own sexual partners. If they are only attracted to white people that's their business. Maybe save your "callouts" for people actually acting to perpetuate racism and stop policing everyone's dicks? Sorry if that's too "neoliberal" for you or whatever. quote:If you don't actually have a problem with that, which, unless you're a proper psychopath or a massive racist yourself, you won't, can you please draw a line between "I won't have sex with black people" and "I won't have sex with bisexual people" as statements of preference that are so wildly different that one is immune from criticism while the other isn't? I won't have sex with women. I'm not attracted to them. Please tell me which misogynist re-education camp to report to. quote:What the gently caress is malfunctioning in your brain that you can't comprehend the simple fact that you can look at a person's choice and simultaneously recognise that you have no right to alter or interfere with that choice yet still acknowledge that choice as absolutely irrational and rooted in socially harmful prejudices? How is "calling people out" and telling them they are racists not "interfering"? How is assuming that only you have ideologically neutral sexual attractions and everyone else's are "rooted in socially harmful prejudices" not massively egotistical and invasive?
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Jul 1, 2014 20:46
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meat sweats posted:Do you actually want to talk about this? The entire part of bisexuality that is a gay issue is the part where you are romantically and sexually involved with men. There is nothing special about bisexuality that makes it different from being part-time gay. There are no bisexual-specific oppressions. If you're bi and male, 80% of straight women won't date you, right off the bat. A decent percentage of gay men won't either. When you're in the process of coming out, there isn't a big awesome community there to make you feel better about yourself. You pretty much have to be an island for the rest of your life. If you talk to a therapist about it, it's sort of hit and miss because some will insist bisexuality doesn't exist, and believe it or not... that might not be the best thing to hear from a licensed therapist if you happen to be bisexual and also suicidal. There are almost zero bi male characters on TV. You can count the out celebrities on one hand. Chances are you won't know anyone over the age of 30 who's bi to look up to. That, combined with being told constantly that your orientation doesn't exist, tends to be pretty tough to deal with. I'm pretty sure that gays generally don't have to deal with being told they don't exist. Maybe they did... back in the 1950s. But let's be reasonable now they have actual recognition. Legally, the challenges facing bisexuals are the same as gays but socially, bisexual men at the very least least are a clean 15 years behind gays in terms of public acceptance. That's nothing compared to what transpeople face of course. We could play oppression olympics all day, but I don't think that's necessary. Fact of the matter is, it does suck. It sucks a lot. Sometimes in similar ways--it's not like the gang of skinheads that corners you in a dark alley are gonna only "half beat you up" if you're bi. Fags are fags as far as they're concerned. It's not like the sentence is something other than death in Saudi Arabia if you can prove you're also attracted to women. And in some ways it's different. Mainly when it comes to dating, but sometimes you run into people with crummy attitudes in general--which can be really painful when it's someone who spent their whole life fighting for gay rights who you think would be cool with it. quote:It's also entirely legitimate for a given gay man to decide he doesn't want to deal with your bullshit. There are people who think that most bisexual men are either sociopaths who view men and women as indistinguishable because they view everyone as an object to begin with, or are gay men who have internalized their homophobia to the point where they can't work up the balls to take the full plunge. Disagree? Fine. But you don't have a claim on dating or loving anyone. This is literally the MRA "friendzone" garbage -- "what a horrible person you are for not wanting to sleep with me! It's exactly equivalent to racism for anyone, anywhere to have their own sexual agency instead of submitting to my desires" you literally say in the above post. This is kind of a tragedy of the commons. Individually there shouldn't be anything wrong with saying you won't date x or y. But there is something wrong with the fact that 80% of people feel the same way when it's something which doesn't affect your objective capacity to be a good date. What if nobody wanted to date people who were born in the year 1986? Any other year is fine but that year... people from that year are always flaky and promiscuous. Surely it would be worth starting a conversation about why people didn't want to date anyone who was born in 1986? Surely someone else has every right to suggest that the reasons people have for not dating '86ers are retarded and mean-spirited? meat sweats posted:I won't have sex with women. I'm not attracted to them. Please tell me which misogynist re-education camp to report to. There's nothing wrong with simply not finding certain types attractive. But that's not what we're talking about here. You can't claim that biologically you can't find bisexuals attractive. That doesn't pass the bullshit test. It's something you'd never know unless you were told, just like someone's birthdate. The Whole Internet fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 22:54
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The Whole Internet posted:If you're bi and male, 80% of straight women won't date you, right off the bat. A decent percentage of gay men won't either. When you're in the process of coming out, there isn't a big awesome community there to make you feel better about yourself. You pretty much have to be an island for the rest of your life. If you talk to a therapist about it, it's sort of hit and miss because some will insist bisexuality doesn't exist, and believe it or not... that might not be the best thing to hear from a licensed therapist if you happen to be bisexual and also suicidal. As someone who is a bisexual male, you are 100% correct.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:07
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Yea no one tells gays 'it's just a phase' or 'you haven't met the right woman' or whatever.
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Jul 2, 2014 01:13
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I have gotten this one "you are just a gay coward"
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Jul 2, 2014 01:22
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Yea no one tells gays 'it's just a phase' or 'you haven't met the right woman' or whatever. No one who's gay tells gays that.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:18
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I don't understand the segregationist mindset towards men who have sex with both men and women. Like, if they overhear threatening, homophobic remarks at work (which is incredibly common in fields other than the rarified campuses/server farms you all appear to work on, and bosses condone it), how is that not directed at them? How is the terror a closeted gay man feels when others say "I will bash men who have sex with men" any different from that of a bisexual man, just because he has sex with women also?
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Jul 2, 2014 02:18
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The Whole Internet posted:...being told constantly that your orientation doesn't exist... First time I encountered a gay person tell a bi person bi doesn't exist was on some game forum, I wanna say the official Elder Scrolls boards. The guy saying it was open about being a furry, and showed absolutely no sign of being anything other than 100% serious. Like, the text under his avatar said "furry and proud." It was loving bizarre. Point is that there's no group small and mistrusted enough that being a part of that group automatically grants a person sufficient self-awareness and maturity to be immune to prejudice and dumb stereotypes.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:48
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Biphobia is definitely widespread and prevalent among gay men and straight women. It ranges from refusing dates to refusing to love someone and openly telling them they're "on the way to straight/gay, don't fool yourself" often. There's also a very common stigma gay men use against bisexual men by assuming they're all cheaters and unfaithful. Ubiquitous_ fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 03:24
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It took me a full 6 years to realize I was bi because there was just no template for me that the idea of bisexuality was an actual valid thing. I vacillated between thinking I was straight and gay until I got a crush on a female teacher, which combined with earlier crushes on men made me realize what was up. It's also really, really degrading when your attraction to women is seen as entertainment for men and an automatic invitation for a threesome. Smudgie Buggler posted:Many seem to think that just because nobody had any right to stop you doing whatever you like with consensual adults in your own bedroom means that nobody has any right to point out the fact that you like to tie women up and hit them during sex might say something pretty important about you to a lot of people. That you've got a willing participant in your violent pastime is irrelevant - the fact that you have a desire to engage in recreational violence (or hold any other politically problematic proclivity) is absolutely open to critique. BDSM is not "recreational violence" and the idea that engaging in it is in-and-of itself problematic is really troublesome. A dom-sub relationship is a carefully modulated interaction where both partners communicate so they can satisfy each other, and the goal is certainly not permanent harm.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:42
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Nintendo Kid posted:You, personally, don't have any issues at stake here, frankly. Hey look, it's literal bullying of LGBT people in the thread.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:43
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SedanChair posted:Hey look, it's literal bullying of LGBT people in the thread. He's routinely bullied LGBT people in other threads.
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Jul 2, 2014 03:46
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Nintendo Kid posted:He's routinely bullied LGBT people in other threads. Hmm, somehow even teenagers seem to know they're bullshitting when they try to look me in the eye and tell me "but he was bullying somebody else!"
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Jul 2, 2014 03:49
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SedanChair posted:Hmm, somehow even teenagers seem to know they're bullshitting when they try to look me in the eye and tell me "but he was bullying somebody else!"
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Jul 2, 2014 03:51
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Gyre posted:It took me a full 6 years to realize I was bi because there was just no template for me that the idea of bisexuality was an actual valid thing. I vacillated between thinking I was straight and gay until I got a crush on a female teacher, which combined with earlier crushes on men made me realize what was up. look i dont really buy into the general thrust of smudgie's argument but dont pretend bdsm isnt full of problems just like any other type of relationship. theres tons of stories about women being pressured into acts they didnt want to do, or use of the safeword being seen as rude, not to mention the persistent failure of clubs to ostracize predatory members. bdsm having a bunch of fancy words for consent doesnt make it any harder for consent to be violated. topical: http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/real_abuse_in_bdsm/ alright sorry for the derail
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Jul 2, 2014 04:04
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Nintendo Kid posted:That's cool friend, but that dude is an rear end. He's literally yelled at people for pursuing gay marriage, while he was married, because they weren't fighting for some vague "better thing" that he never got around to actually naming, he just decided to yell at other queer people like me. Really? Nintendo Kid posted:I'm making you mad from bed with my girlfriend I've gotta admit fishmech, if you turn out to be a woman you will have officially Challenged My Preconceptions.
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Jul 2, 2014 04:08
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Generally, the female member of animal species isn't known for so frequently marking their territory with excrement, or copy-pasting from wikipedia whenever the opportunity presents itself. So I too, would be surprised at such a reveal.
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Jul 2, 2014 04:17
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A big flaming stink posted:look i dont really buy into the general thrust of smudgie's argument but dont pretend bdsm isnt full of problems just like any other type of relationship. theres tons of stories about women being pressured into acts they didnt want to do, or use of the safeword being seen as rude, not to mention the persistent failure of clubs to ostracize predatory members. Yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't have tons of loving problems, just that BDSM doesn't automatically equal someone getting off on actually hurting people. I'm personally very wary of engaging with the "community" and how a lot of rhetoric places subs as literally below doms rather than two people figuring poo poo out. Derail over.
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Jul 2, 2014 04:18
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SedanChair posted:Really? You really think far too binary.
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Jul 2, 2014 04:42
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SedanChair posted:I don't understand the segregationist mindset towards men who have sex with both men and women. Like, if they overhear threatening, homophobic remarks at work (which is incredibly common in fields other than the rarified campuses/server farms you all appear to work on, and bosses condone it), how is that not directed at them? How is the terror a closeted gay man feels when others say "I will bash men who have sex with men" any different from that of a bisexual man, just because he has sex with women also? Because the only reason he's hearing homophobic remarks is because of his gay proclivities. There's nothing about his bisexuality that makes it any different. The problems of bisexuals are the problems of homosexuals, plus something that does not present a problem in this context (heterosexuality). Add on to that the way most bisexual men are, which is the "lived experience" of most gay men with bisexuals whether you find it ideologically acceptable or not, and here we are. This guy, who opposes gay rights and seems to want nothing more than to twist homophobic rednecks yelling insults at him as being somehow the fault of gay men rather than homophobia and rednecks, is doing the reputation of bisexuals no favors.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:05
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Gyre posted:BDSM is not "recreational violence" and the idea that engaging in it is in-and-of itself problematic is really troublesome. A dom-sub relationship is a carefully modulated interaction where both partners communicate so they can satisfy each other, and the goal is certainly not permanent harm. This is the fantasy ideal that doesn't accord with the reality, in which, at a minimum, the same disturbances that make you find abusing people to be erotic will come to bear on your ability to maintain a stable relationship, even assuming everything really is entirely consensual. I don't have to accept everything that is in any way connected to sex as completely healthy and above criticism just because I am gay or support gay rights. All issues of psychological health aside, Johnny Suburb wanting to get in on some oppression tourism because he occasionally spanks his wife and thinks that makes him "queer" is condescending and stupid.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:07
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meat sweats posted:want nothing more than to twist homophobic rednecks yelling insults at him as being somehow the fault of gay men rather than homophobia and rednecks Uhh. . . I haven't gotten that at all? Maybe I'm stupid, I mean it's not like I haven't opened my mouth and said stupid poo poo before, but that is not what I got. What I got, is that he was being insulted and called the same kind of slurs that an openly gay person would receive, but because he says he's bisexual, and is currently in a relationship with a woman, he is being told that his feelings on the situation don't matter. That is literally what was said to him. Nintendo Kid posted:You, personally, don't have any issues at stake here, frankly. Nintendo Kid posted:You literally already have all the rights other straight white men have so long as you stay in an exclusive monogamous relationship with a woman.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:27
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Nintendo Kid posted:You really think far too binary. So you are not in a monogamous relationship with your girlfriend? Because otherwise this: Nintendo Kid posted:You literally already have all the rights other straight white men have so long as you stay in an exclusive monogamous relationship with a woman. would seem to apply to you as well. Or you could be making it all up, who knows.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:31
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SedanChair posted:So you are not in a monogamous relationship with your girlfriend? Because otherwise this: Have you ever heard of gender? E-Tank posted:
You still haven't shown him having an issue at stake, psychotic assaultish people enabled by the bosses aren't driven away by laws. Note that he brings this up to people finally able to get married, or even to live as who they are. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 05:34
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Fishmech why don't you just lay out your whole geek code and put an end to the mystery of exactly how you're queer. Because you seem very comfortable attacking others under the LGBT banner because they somehow rank lower than you, or can hide their difference.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:36
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meat sweats posted:This is the fantasy ideal that doesn't accord with the reality, in which, at a minimum, the same disturbances that make you find abusing people to be erotic will come to bear on your ability to maintain a stable relationship, even assuming everything really is entirely consensual. I don't have to accept everything that is in any way connected to sex as completely healthy and above criticism just because I am gay or support gay rights. All issues of psychological health aside, Johnny Suburb wanting to get in on some oppression tourism because he occasionally spanks his wife and thinks that makes him "queer" is condescending and stupid. I'm a woman in a relationship with a woman, I enjoy BDSM from both sides, and you need to think about your assumptions.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:39
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SedanChair posted:Fishmech why don't you just lay out your whole geek code and put an end to the mystery of exactly how you're queer. Because you seem very comfortable attacking others under the LGBT banner because they somehow rank lower than you, or can hide their difference. Actually I mock rkalfjidji solely because they have a bad habit of whining about how they aren't the focus of everything, and also that everything is going to go wrong every second. Tu quoque.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:44
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meat sweats posted:BDSM Derail "I find the idea of two people coming together and loving each other in a manner that does not fit my worldview to be horrible and they must be stopped." ~ meat sweats, supposed gay rights supporter. I'm not even into it, but this has been around for a long loving time, and it'll be around for a long loving time more. There'd be some sort of backlash by now if it was truly 'violent' instead of two people loving each other in a way that you personally don't find appealing. Nintendo Kid posted:Actually I mock rkalfjidji solely because they have a bad habit of whining about how they aren't the focus of everything, and also that everything is going to go wrong every second. Tu quoque. Someone can have a pessimistic view of the world. That's fine. You're acting like you want attention right now because you're trying to drop 'hints' on what you are on the LGBT spectrum. E-Tank fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jul 2, 2014 |
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Jul 2, 2014 05:45
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Nintendo Kid posted:Actually I mock rkalfjidji solely because they have a bad habit of whining about how they aren't the focus of everything, and also that everything is going to go wrong every second. Tu quoque. And in keeping with the pattern, you'll tell any lie as long as you get to mock somebody.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:47
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E-Tank posted:"I find the idea of two people coming together and loving each other in a manner that does not fit my worldview to be horrible and they must be stopped." ~ meat sweats, supposed gay rights supporter. So, to repeat, some behaviors are healthy and some aren't, and your implied premise that the reason to support gay rights is because anything that has to do with sex is automatically good is incorrect. People can do what they want but it doesn't mean they aren't bullshitting themselves about their motivations or the consequences for a long-term relationship (and if you don't want a long-term relationship, that's fine, but again, don't bullshit about it). Also lol at "loving each other" by beating someone up.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:47
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SedanChair posted:And in keeping with the pattern, you'll tell any lie as long as you get to mock somebody. Cool people telling queers they're lying, thanks Ricky Santorum.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:48
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meat sweats posted:So, to repeat, some behaviors are healthy and some aren't, and your implied premise that the reason to support gay rights is because anything that has to do with sex is automatically good incorrect. Also lol at "loving each other" by beating someone up. You are literally making the exact same arguments that people made against homosexuality, the target has just been changed to BDSM. No, I'm not equating them, I'm saying you're using the same script that anti-gay bigots are using. I do not have an implied premise of the sort, but that's a good strawman argument you have there. Okay, We'll take your example. 'beating someone up'. Alright, how about spanking? Someone says they get really turned on when someone gives them a spank on the butt. S/He agree with their significant other that they are able to do this, and they'll stop if it gets too far, having a proper word to be used so that she can playfully beg, and not trigger him stopping. After they have fun, they spend time cuddling and loving each other because this is how they express and enjoy themselves in bed. What about this is so totally horribly bad?
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Jul 2, 2014 05:53
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Honestly dude sounds like he stumbled into Gor *whipcrack* and assumed that was every BDSM practitioner.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:56
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E-Tank posted:Okay, We'll take your example. 'beating someone up'. Alright, how about spanking? Someone says they get really turned on when someone gives them a spank on the butt. S/He agree with their significant other that they are able to do this, and they'll stop if it gets too far, having a proper word to be used so that she can playfully beg, and not trigger him stopping. After they have fun, they spend time cuddling and loving each other because this is how they express and enjoy themselves in bed. Who said that's bad? The example strongly alluded to was a celebrity poster around here who makes his black girlfriend wear a collar and roleplay as a slave while he vigorously beats her. There's degrees. People who do that latter thing are hosed up. I'm not going to accept that it's the same thing as a gay relationship just because you assert it over and over again. "People used to disapprove of homosexuality, therefore disapproving of anything is bad" is terrible, terrible logic.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:59
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Gyre posted:Yeah, I'm not saying it doesn't have tons of loving problems, just that BDSM doesn't automatically equal someone getting off on actually hurting people. I'm personally very wary of engaging with the "community" and how a lot of rhetoric places subs as literally below doms rather than two people figuring poo poo out. I wasn't saying BDSM = loving the poo poo out of sexual violence. It is just true, though, that an awful lot of people DO get off on inflicting serious pain. Even if they can find people who are willing to have pain inflicted on them, it's a practice the motives and implications of which any member of society is perfectly entitled to question. Criticism isn't a restraint on sexual freedom, and it is not an attack on anybody's bedroom autonomy to point out that their irrational aversion to bisexual people which extends to the point where they wouldn't ever sleep with a member of that class on principle is loving stupid and problematic.
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Jul 2, 2014 06:02
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