Israel Palestine Megathread: Chickenshitgate

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Israel Palestine Megathread: Chickenshitgate

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Yeah I think this has to have something to do with the fact that the Israeli gov't doesn't like the idea of a Hamas/Fatah reunion, since it presents a stronger front than the two separate groups. Granted even together they have little power compared to the IDF, but it's something.

also the Israelis are still pissed at Fatah for getting Palestine recognized at the UN.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 00:41

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:39

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

If they actually did you would think they would say something before dropping bombs. More than likely it's BS

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 00:45

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Xandu posted:

Well, maybe. Bombing does a hell of a lot more to appease domestic outrage than releasing evidence and having a debate.

Right but they could have released the evidence and then bombed. Instead it's just bombing.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 00:48

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

cafel posted:

This whole Israeli furor over Fatah and Hamas forming a united government has struck me as being a bit funny. Before they were united, wasn't one of the common Israeli complaints over why negotiation couldn't proceed was that the Palestinians weren't giving them a united front with which to negotiate? Did I just make that up, or did they really immediately turn around and say any negotiations with a united front were off the second it materialized?

Man, I'd really have liked to hear that incontrovertible evidence before the airstrikes and home demolitions went forward.

No you're correct. They like to play these games to make it appear like the Palestinians are the ones who won't come to the table in negotiations.

also for those who think the US will do anything involving a US citizen killed by I/P conflict, at least one died on one of those ships that tried to break the Gaza blockade which were boarded by heavily armed IDF soldiers. Nothing happened from that. Or Rachel Corrie.

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 04:26

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Zeroisanumber posted:

Or is the IDF just going to smack people around for a while and then call it all good?

probably this, although who knows how long they will do that.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 00:41

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

AreWeDrunkYet posted:

They'll make sure to tear up some infrastructure on the way out.

That falsely assumes there's still infrastructure left from the last occupation

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 04:45

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Just a daily reminder that a kid who was a dual citizen of both the US and Turkey died a couple of years ago in those horrible Gaza Flotilla raids by the IDF and nothing happened (on the US' end, anyway. at least Turkey cut diplomatic ties for awhile). That doesn't even include all of the other civilians who were peacefully attempting to bring much needed aid to Gaza and who were painted as terrorist sympathizers by the IDF/Israeli government and attacked by special forces like it was some kind of movie.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2014 18:59

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Alexzandvar posted:

lol

I still can't believe that a prominent world leader thought this would be a good idea

# ¿ Jul 10, 2014 03:26

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Xandu posted:

I saw some poll on Twitter that shows support for Israel declines amongst younger people, but support for Palestine stays pretty constant at about 12%.

I'm surprised it's that high considering there are almost no mainstream figures in the media right now who openly support Palestinians.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2014 21:21

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

It's always frustrating that the best progressives in Congress (a lot of whom are Jewish) have really terrible views on I/P, but are great on everything else.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2014 22:01

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

NLJP posted:

I think you'll find that that was actually a real good post. Maybe you misread it? He puts the vast majority of responsibility on Israel for the bullshit over the past few years, not exculpating them in the least while trying to explain somewhat why parties on the Palestinian side still takes some actions that are a bit unwise, maybe counterproductive. It doesn't try to equate the actions of Israel and Palestine; Israel is clearly at fault and guilty of heinous crimes while being unwilling to negotiate on any reasonable basis.

It's not a perfect post but it's not one to go frothing about, unless I completely misread things.

He's also very correct that ultimately, Israel has all the power in this situation. The Palestinians have done a great job without much power or agency.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2014 01:48

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I really do wonder at this point if Israel fully deployed it's military, and started deliberately exterminating all Palestinians while saying it was for 'self-defense', would anything be different? I mean how many kids have died the last two weeks of this for no reason?

# ¿ Jul 16, 2014 17:42

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Good Citizen posted:

Wouldn't work. You can't kill civilians in large numbers with ground troops and get away with it for any significant length of time. The pictures that leak out look way worse and are harder to explain away. So yeah, things would be quite a bit different. There'd still be lots of people supporting the action, though.

Good Citizen posted:

Wouldn't work. You can't kill civilians in large numbers with ground troops and get away with it for any significant length of time. The pictures that leak out look way worse and are harder to explain away. So yeah, things would be quite a bit different. There'd still be lots of people supporting the action, though.

It just seems to me like the US political establishment is fine with letting Israel do whatever they want though, as long as it's so-called self defense.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2014 17:50

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

BadOptics posted:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/16/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"No, no seriously guys, they're hurling kids in front of bombs! We swear! Those shifty bastards!"

# ¿ Jul 17, 2014 00:02

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

CNN removed that reporter who tweeted yesterday about being threatened by Israelis with violence from her assignment this morning. Beginning to sense a pattern here...

# ¿ Jul 18, 2014 15:08

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Lum_ posted:

Sorry.

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/01/contraceptive-injections-ethiopian.html

Reminder that there were basically no consequences for the perpetrators of this whole thing

# ¿ Jul 18, 2014 20:47

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

NBC News has changed its mind and is sending their reporter Ayman Mohyeldin back to Gaza after pulling him from his assignment yesterday.

https://twitter.com/wjcarter/status/490274721603543040

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 00:32

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

matrocious posted:

I do find it amazing that Palestine has so little advocacy in the US media. We are watching a well documented genocide by a militarized theocracy and every tax dollar we send them puts us further on the wrong side of history.

It's really gross.

There's really no discussion here politically about this other than 'Well, Israel has the right to defend itself'

I haven't heard a single US politician express much more than 'concern' about the ongoing bloodbath.

Part of the problem is that many of the more progressive Democrats are Jewish, and unfortunately super biased when it comes to this issue.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2014 15:54

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Sheng-ji Yang posted:

http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/israeli-propaganda-war-hits-social-media-20140717-ztvky.html?=

Inspired by the role of social media during the Arab Spring and boosted by the support of the Israeli government and Israel Defence Force, student volunteers at the Interdisciplinary Center (IDC) Herzliya, a private university north of Tel Aviv, are waging their own propaganda war countering online anti-Israeli sentiment.

Staffed by approximately 400 student volunteers the project which goes by the name �Israel Under Fire�, claims to have succeeded in closing anti-Israeli pages on Facebook and challenging propaganda from Hamas, the organisation that governs the Gaza Strip and whose military arm is firing rockets at Israel.

According to Igal Raich, a 23-year-old IDC student who volunteers in what is called "The Advocacy Room", the project aims to counter what is perceived as a false representation of Israel in international and social media through Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.

So how many of them are paying ten bux for forums accounts, is the question

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 15:13

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Gregor Samsa posted:

After Netanyahu basically campaigned for Romney in 2012, I think there's very little good will toward him in the Obama administration. Plus, of course, Obama is a secret Muslim.

They've never liked each other. Back in 2009 or 2010 Obama tried to force the Israelis to stop building settlements in order to restart the peace talks, and that went nowhere. The problem is no politician here has the balls to actually do something that would put leverage on Israel and force them to stop acting like they can just do whatever they want with no consequences.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2014 17:20

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

euphronius posted:

So, this current invasion was supposed to be based on rockets + triple murder. But the triple murder story kind of pooped out for Israel. Then they brought up Terror Tunnels at the beginning of the invasion so now we have TerTuns and Rockets as the CB?

Yeah I find it very telling that they stopped claiming Hamas was behind the kidnappings when they initially said they would be showing 'evidence' of this which never came.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2014 15:12

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

PT6A posted:

Yep, no conspiracy here folks! It's just pure loving happenstance that every story even tangentially related to Israel in Western media has an absurdly pro-Israel slant, and usually includes lying by omission or some very interesting grammar choices.

Also any dissenting voices are silenced within moments (see: NBC, CNN, MSNBC all punishing reporters in the last week for asking legitimate questions).

# ¿ Jul 22, 2014 17:10

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

'Hamas refusing to negotiate' has no relation to the collective punishment being brought down on everyone in Gaza. As mentioned previously, 75% of the deaths so far are civilians. The people who will really suffer are innocents, not Hamas.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2014 17:41

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

The IDF just bombed a UN school full of children with no warning; at least 30 dead

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 14:48

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I'm also seeing stuff on Twitter about ambulances being fired on now. NBC's Richard Engle was in one.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 15:02

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Gonna be hard to spin bombing a UN school, but I'm sure they will now claim the UN is sheltering terrorist kids or something

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 15:06

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

BattleMaster posted:

Is there anything they can do that won't get them killed for some reason or another?

At this point it seems to be a choice between a quick death by explosion, or years of suffering and starvation and then a slow death.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 00:45

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Fidel Castronaut posted:

Part of me selfishly believes I should tone down my vitriol for the IDF when I get to grad school in fall. Then again, I don't matter and, with the shape academia is in, I won't get tenure even if I were a card-carrying member of Likud.

It's just odd to me that educated people are so regressive about this, but that may be my naivete speaking. (In fact, I'm almost sure it is.)

It does seem to defy normal polling. Usually the more education someone has the more progressive they are.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 00:49

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Tezzor posted:

The problem is that Israel is seen as a beacon of progressivism. If the reality of what Israelis actually are and do were better known it would probably drop substantially.

I agree that the media's bias towards Israel in the US is probably influencing that.

I also think that one reason younger people don't buy into those narratives is because they use non-traditional sources for news (like Twitter), so the spin isn't going to be as big there.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 01:05

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Remember when Israel said they have strong evidence against Hamas? Yeah.

It changed very quickly into 'hey look here, terror tunnels!'

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 17:55

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I think we're at the point where this could go on indefinitely if Israel completely rejects a one sided ceasefire agreement like that one.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2014 20:08

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

radical meme posted:

The only public opinion that matters to Israel is U.S. public opinion and they have that locked down for at least the next decade. In fact, it's not even U.S. public opinion that matters, it's the opinion of U.S. politicians. The Obama administration has shown a total lack of will to force the issue. In 2016, it doesn't matter if Hillary or the Republican is elected because both will show deference to Israel. So Israel has the U.S. political class locked in for the next decade.

Also 100% of the Senate voted to sign a letter expressing that basically all of this is Hamas' fault, despite it of course not actually being that way.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2014 16:08

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Accretionist posted:

I don't think anything better than that's plausible and think we're a shoe-in for migrants from the Palestinian diaspora festooning the Middle East.

This is what I go with....I think eventually down the road some Israeli leader will drop all pretense and just annex the remainder of Palestinian territory and force out whoever's left. That could be a long way in the future, but it seems inevitable.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2014 17:42

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

The 'talking to the American left' section of this document is gold.

http://www.stopdebezetting.com/documents/pdf/090713Hasbara%20handboek_tip_report.pdf

The basic points are:

-White males are your best allies here, since they poll higher in support for Israel
-Americans 'don't understand the TRUTH of what's going on in Israel'
-We want to make African-Americans and women 'more aware' of 'Israel's plight'
-'Vast numbers of key Democratic voters don't know basic facts about the ME'

I love this quote:

quote:

It is critical to make sure that Liberals understand this is a fight between Israel and Iran and its proxies, not just a
territorial dispute between Israel and Palestinians. In Israel�s short 61 years they have
faced 7 wars and two intifadas. Almost no Israeli family has escaped the tragedies of war
unscathed.

IRAN

# ¿ Jul 27, 2014 15:15

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I didn't think I would see the day that Joe Freaking Scarborough comes out stronger against killing brown people than members of the Progressive Caucus. The hell is wrong with this country

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 20:13

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Ddraig posted:

It's a complete load of horseshit. I'm of Roma descent, and members of my family were killed in the Porajmos. Gays, disabled people and countless other ethnic and societal minorities were targeted. You do not see these people openly calling for genocide.

There is something rotten in the heart of Israel. This has nothing to do with the Holocaust or collective PTSD. It's a laughable idea, and deeply insulting to the many, many Jews who have experiences of the Holocaust and somehow resisted the urge to become sociopathic killers of children.

From what I'm seeing they've taken the whole martyrdom complex to the extreme. Everyone is out to get them, nobody can dictate peace terms to them, because only they are the truly righteous, as they see it. It's really not very different from how Christian conservatives are constantly playing the victim card even though they are in the religious majority and under no threat of persecution. Meanwhile they believe that Muslims are out to take over the US and usurp them or whatever.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2014 20:11

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

TheRamblingSoul posted:

I think this is the US's diplomatic equivalent of saying "Look, Israel, do whatever you need to do to save face; lie to us, say something about Hamas, whatever, but please stop loving shelling UN shelters and being monsters about this mess."

I bet Netanyahu's comment to Obama to not second-guess him ever again must really have gotten under his nerves to give the okay for that release. That's pretty much the highest semi-aggressive diplomatic statement regarding Israel without coming from Kerry and thus starting a row in the front pages of every major newspaper.

[e]: Is there an irony of this happening basically in Jesus's backyard? Like, any What Would Jesus Do? jokes to lift the mood?

I think this case was also worse because from what I understand it was an airstrike. Plus at this point it's hard for Israel to justify hitting UN shelters again and again when they know exactly where all of them are.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 03:16

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I do love the nitpicking over Hamas going after military targets while Israel bombs UN schools on purpose.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2014 18:25

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Ignore those people, they are not going to be convinced they are wrong

# ¿ Aug 13, 2014 21:15

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:39

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

HortonNash posted:

"Such a shame that senility has turned him into an antisemitic bigot, he used to be a hero and now he supports terrorists."

Considering how they have smeared Finkelstein (who lost family in the Holocaust), you can bet this will happen

# ¿ Aug 16, 2014 14:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Israel Palestine Megathread: Chickenshitgate

«‹›2 »