|
The amount of blood lust these kidnappings and murder have whipped up among the Israeli public is pretty frightening. Netanyahu is going to be under some pressure to satiate the desire for revenge. It will be interesting to see tomorrow if the IDF is mobilizing. If not, then we may just be in for another round of the ongoing bombardment of Gaza.
|
#
¿
Jul 1, 2014 00:42
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 08:02 |
|
|
Tatum Girlparts posted:It's actually a pretty major deal, Israel's survival is based on high amounts of Jewish immigration to basically out swarm the Muslims, if more and more western Jews go 'uh no, I want no part of that' the state will be forced to shift as demographics do. Jews in Israel don't have sub-replacement birth rates, so their population will still grow even without Western immigration. The Haredi population in particular is exploding. Probably not as fast as the Palestinian population though. New Division fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 1, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jul 1, 2014 03:28
|
|
|
illrepute posted:Right! But that's still not the same thing as an unassailable majority backed up by immigration and the world superpower. If American support drops off, the whole thing goes South-Africa shaped in short order. Eh, I doubt it. I don't think Americans will turn against Israel anytime soon, though I forsee a great deal more skepticism towards Israeli hawkishness. I also don't think the immigration factor is as important as you make it out to be at all.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 1, 2014 03:40
|
|
|
McDowell posted:This is the same logic for why the Israelis no longer give a poo poo about the peace process 'they elected Hamas' Any Syrian thrust towards Israel after their civil war is would be destroyed in short order. The military power of the country is bleeding out by the day. Only group that would be insane enough to try it would be the Islamic State
|
|
#
¿
Jul 1, 2014 03:43
|
|
|
I bet Israel really is going to do at least a limited ground incursion at this point. Wouldn't be surprised if they went in over the weekend, right as the World Cup is wrapping up.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 22:42
|
|
|
Crane Fist posted:It's just an easy way to let people know there's no way in hell you're going to be posting in good faith, being part of the problem and all. There really aren't many people posting in good faith here.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 22:55
|
|
|
Crane Fist posted:There aren't really any good faith arguments to be made. It looks like the apartheid regime is about to start full-bore murdering the people they're oppressing for some utterly spurious reason and you either know that's a bad thing or you're a sociopath. There's nothing really to discuss apart from how wholly awful this is going to be and maybe someone can run a book on how many people are going to die? Or you could discuss what the implications are for the future, if the IDF is actually achieving anything with their air strikes or potential ground incursion, what this means for the unity government of Hamas and Fatah, the implications for the wider Middle East... there's lots of different ways you could discuss the situation.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 23:02
|
|
|
Crane Fist posted:Respectively: Nothing will change apart from less people will be alive, Nothing will be accomplished apart from less people will be alive, militant elements in HAMAS will be given an even greater voice because nothing Fatah can do is working meaning more rockets and more insane IDF overreactions leaving less people alive, nothing will be different apart from less people will be alive. I personally think that Israel is going to weaken Hamas to the point where it loses influence to... even more radical factions. Hamas might even be absorbed by another group due to their deteriorating finances and political position. Fatah will be discredited too, but the Israelis will keep them alive as a sort of acceptable outlet for Palestinian voices. The current offensive will buy them a few years of relative quiet on the Gaza front but naturally it won't last, and in a few years they'll be facing an even more militant group. It will also weaken their current detente of sorts with the Gulf nations and their various fronts in the region. Overall though, the wider Middle East is so caught up in the proxy war between Iran and the Gulf that Israel can probably get away with this for now.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 23:14
|
|
|
Crane Fist posted:Too late I remember that it's IDF policy to take every last thing super loving seriously! I've got family still in Lebanon and I don't want their houses blown up so I retract my comments! I think they'll be alright. I can't see Hezbollah getting involved beyond words this time. They're sort of preoccupied these days!
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 23:15
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:Well, as an "acceptable" outlet with which Israel won't negotiate seriously as it doesn't represent a united front of all Palestinians (and with which Israel won't negotiate at all should it unite with other groups either, for that matter). Oh sure, Israel does not intend to seriously negotiate with them, but they're still a useful tool for other purposes.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 23:18
|
|
|
Crane Fist posted:It seems like an all-out Israeli offensive into Palestine would be just the thing to drag everyone's attention back to I/P, though. The status quo might suck for everyone on the wrong side of the apartheid but it let the other Gulf nations get on with their own poo poo, but this kind of invasion is going to displace a lot of people and where the hell are they going to end up? Iranian shenanigans fade into the background real quick when the IDF chases thousands of refugees across your borders. Refugees? There won't be too many from any attack. The Palestinians in Gaza are trapped there to a great extent.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 23:23
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:See this. This is why people think you're racist and fascists. A bit preening and smug maybe, but it's pretty overblown to single that post out as being racist and fascist.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 23:25
|
|
|
Crane Fist posted:I'm working under the assumption that the IDF doesn't intend to roll up all of their military hardware and just reinforce the border or sit on top of Gaza- it's looks like they're preparing to start pushing people back, maybe in order to start a new round of settling? Problem is it's early days so this is all guesswork at best. My assumption is that the ground incursion will be limited and probably focused on going after and sealing up some of the bigger tunnels used to stash and transport rockets. The tunnels will just be re-dug of course, but that takes a while. I can't see resettlement happening. Even Netanyahu's not that dumb.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 23:31
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:They're certainly a less healthy democracy than Israel, Tunisia, and arguably Jordan. I'm not totally sure I'd describe Israel as a totally healthy democracy though, what with that whole thing about being explicitly racist and stomping on the Arab-dominated political parties every couple of years. (Tunisia's not there yet either, but mostly because of lovely transparency and censoring of journalists.) Oh, the Kurds are certainly better than Jordan, which is still a monarchy behind the smoke and mirrors "elections" that happen there.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 23:37
|
|
|
ReV VAdAUL posted:Dead settlers have provided an amazing excuse to start bombing this time around... After all the trouble they went through taking the settlers in Gaza out just under a decade ago, I can't imagine them letting settlers back into Gaza.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 10, 2014 23:38
|
|
|
dorkasaurus_rex posted:So I take it from the intensity of this slap fight that it's been a slow day? Israel's waiting till the World Cup finals get going to send the IDF into Gaza. The US ambassador meekly signaled acceptance of this earlier today if Israel "found it necessary". Basically, get ready for Cast Lead 2.0
|
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2014 23:00
|
|
|
Ahh, another pointless round of bloodletting appears to be coming to an end with no result except for a lot of innocent deaths. See you all again in two years when we do it all again.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2014 02:26
|
|
|
Speaking of which, Abbas is probably losing legitimacy in the eyes of the Palestinian public as this goes on. I have to figure he's pretty close to saying "gently caress it" and retiring at this point. Once that happens, I'm not sure what happens to Fatah.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 15, 2014 23:15
|
|
|
Gotta say, these profoundly dumb attempts to negotiate ceasefires while shutting out the input of one of the belligerents is hilarious in a tragic way. We should try this in Afghanistan.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 22:52
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:
Israel does go out of its way to encourage all Jews around the world to think of it as their homeland, which is pretty unique as far as nations go. Therefore they really should be little surprise when people conflate the two, even if it is not entirely accurate.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 23:26
|
|
|
HortonNash posted:Weren't the children hit a second time as the surviving ones ran from the first strike? According to most reports, yes. Gotta eliminate all the threats you know.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 23:30
|
|
|
drat Palestinians forcing us to kill their children! They do it because it makes us look bad I tells ya! How cynical can you get!
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 23:56
|
|
|
I wonder if the IDF will give a medal to the Israeli seamen who bravely decided to open fire on children in order to protect Israel from the dreaded invisible Hamas rockets. After all, it takes COURAGE to blow up kids.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2014 23:58
|
|
|
Leopold Stotch posted:You would think that hotel full of journalists might have noticed and perhaps even reported a hamas missile position 100 yds away. The journalists are antisemitic liars and part of a conspiracy to defame the brave IDF
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 00:02
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:"No, no seriously guys, they're hurling kids in front of bombs! We swear! Those shifty bastards!" 
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 00:07
|
|
|
euphronius posted:At least no one is trying to defend the beach murders. There is a limit I guess. Israel was blaming Hamas for making them kill those kids. I do suppose it's better than them simply saying "yeah we kill kids, deal with it losers.  "
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 00:36
|
|
|
To Battle posted:God this is all Regev says in every interview ever. Well of course, he's a government PR flack. His job is to hammer home simple propaganda points so they find their way into the public discourse.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 03:08
|
|
|
Ghost of Reagan Past posted:@IDFSpokesperson The talk was that any ground invasion would be "limited", but with the amount of reservists they've called up that idea's pretty laughable. This could be worse than Cast Lead.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 23:00
|
|
|
Ghost of Reagan Past posted:@SherineT The IDF artillery is really going to town. Must be lots of targets out there in Gaza! 
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 23:09
|
|
|
So any chance of serious unrest in the West Bank tomorrow? Palestinians there seem pissed off and ready to riot. I'm not sure how observant Abbas is, but I know I would be drinking heavily right now in his position.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 23:13
|
|
|
I've never heard of the IDF using flamethrowers. They usually just send a tank shell into buildings giving them a problem, then toss in grenades and satchel charges for good measure. Anyone running out probably gets gunned down.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 23:24
|
|
|
Breakfast All Day posted:Is there any left in Israel with a spine? Like anyone actively trying to undermine Likud, support smuggling into Gaza, etc., and not just liberal chanting? You'd get arrested and tried for treason if you did anything like that. There are people who refuse to serve in the occupied territories, the "refuseniks"
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 23:56
|
|
|
The Israeli consulate in Turkey is getting attacked by protestors
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2014 23:59
|
|
|
Terror tunnels is going to be the new BS wartime term to come out of this conflict, I just know it.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 00:07
|
|
|
Zohar posted:Mistakes were made. Unfortunate events transpired. Deaths were precipitated. Get this man a spokesman job at the State Department or the Pentagon pronto.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 00:18
|
|
|
Miltank posted:That's flechette alright. Looks like they are Jedi hunting. Does this mean Netanyahu is Emperor Palpatine?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 00:29
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:That was the "shack is a known hamas shack and the kids looked like Hamas fleeing said shack"? We were trying to blow up Hamas's strategic supply of run down shacks. Unfortunately there are many more left to destroy in Gaza
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 00:31
|
|
|
I sort of want to write an English to IDF dictionary now. Children - Hamas trainees House - Hamas bunkers Fishing Boat - Hamas naval vessel and so on.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 00:35
|
|
|
3 posted:It is a little difficult when you are using 21st century munitions with extremely precise targeting mechanisms that supposedly allow one to not accidentally murder children and then accidentally murder the survivors of your first attack. They're not quite as precise as often advertised in all honesty.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 00:36
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 08:02 |
|
|
Miltank posted:Wasn't it literally just four children playing alone on a beach? They were killed on the beach, but before then they were apparently near some super important run down shack on a nearby dock.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2014 00:41
|
|