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Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Pacific Command




If you are a Soviet player reading, then get out, you Communist Spy and cheater!

Gentlemen, the Russkis are trying to take the train station again, time to move forward and crush them you know that the Fuhrer has ordered not one step back, but I'm sure that as right thinking soldiers of the Reich I don't have to tell you that.

Kommander UnwantedPlatypus has worked with me to form a force that should be unbeatable, but first, lets go over the orders you can give!

These are the infantry orders.



Hopefully, most of these are clear enough, but let me go through a few of them.

Move orders the fast your men move, the more tired they will get. They will also be easier to spot.
Hunt means to move towards the enemy slowly until contact is made.
Assault orders will send your men forward shouting Urra!
Target arcs focus your men to a certain direction, rather than picking their targets.



Orders for Armour are similar, with reverse being added, as well as orders to button up and open up your tank.


Order Format

I would like orders to be done in the following format.

1st Platoon, 1st Company shall assault the building.

providing a map with the exact positions marked in some way is not 100% necessary, but will make me confusing your orders less likely. Using the correct movement colour would be amazing, if you can do it if not, don't worry.




Your forces.

Here are the units.

Fusilier Battalion
Headquarters Team (Unwanted Platypus)
HQ Support Team
Multi-purpose vehicle (Kubelwagen)
Multi-purpose vehicle (Kubelwagen)

1 Company (Fusilier)
Headquarters Team
1 Platoon (Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG)
2 Platoon (Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG, flamethrower team)
3 Platoon (Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG, flamethrower team)

2 Company (Fusilier)
Headquarters Team
1 Platoon (Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG)
2 Platoon (Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG, flamethrower team)
3 Platoon (Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG, flamethrower team)

4 Company (Weapons Company)
Headquarters team
Machine Gun Platoon (Headquarters team, 3 HMG's)
1 Platoon (Mortar [medium]) (Headquarters team, 2 81mm Mortars (sGrW34), 2 Medium Mortars)
2 Platoon (Mortar [medium]) (Headquarters team, 2 81mm Mortars (sGrW34), 2 Medium Mortars)

Panzerschreck Team
Tank Hunter team

Medium Tank (Pz IVJ (Early))
Medium Tank (Pz IVJ (Early))
Medium Tank (Pz IVJ (Early))
Medium Tank (Pz IVJ (Early))

3 Company (Panzergrenadier [armoured])
1st Platoon (Headquarters Team, 3 Squads, 4 SPW 251/1 (ausf.D) Halftracks)
2nd Platoon (Headquarters Team, 3 Squads, 4 SPW 251/1 (ausf.D) Halftracks)


UnwantedPlatypus, if you could begin to divide your forces between your men. I'd be grateful.

I'll now allow some time for people to get sorted into their positions, once that is done, we'll get onto deployment and first orders.
I will also allow the commanders to make some modifications to their forces if they deem them necessary. if you can see a glaring problem in your commanders deployment, speak now.

Finally, here is the map with the fords marked, so you can think ahead.


Click here for the full 1918x1607 image

Good luck!

Orders Spreadsheet

Grey Hunter fucked around with this message at Jul 9, 2014 around 06:59

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Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011


Platypus, it seems like we're a bit short-handed on anti-tank and artillery capacity. The Soviets are probably going to bring a shitload of tanks and I'm worried an infantry-heavy force is going to get curbstomped pretty quickly. A couple of StuGs or Hetzers might be a nice addition to our lineup. Plus, having more armor might let us send one or two pieces of armor into town to help our infantry take objective. The Soviet infantry don't have much in the way of AT weapons, so an armor-infantry combo should be able to roll them up pretty quickly.

I think some artillery might also be a good addition. It'd be nice to deny them the use of the fords by hitting it with some sporadic fire.

I'm fine with deleting my Fusilier company if we need to free up some more points for armor or artillery.

lenoon
Jan 7, 2010



Do we need that many flamethrowers?

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

This post is now the info dump post. Here is the current chain of command.

quote:



Fusilier Battalion-[unwantedplatypus]
-Headquarters team, HQ support team, Forward Observation Team

I 1st Company (Fusilier)-[Valiantman]
-Headquarters team
|
|-1st Platoon-[The_JJ]
-Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG
|
|-2nd Platoon-[Pea]
-Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG, Flamethrower team
|
|-3rd Platoon-[eigenstate]
-Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG, Flamethrower team
|
|-4th Platoon-[Veloxyll]
- Panzershrek team x2

II 2nd Company (Fusilier)-[Baccaruda]
-Headquarters team
|
|-1st Platoon-[lenoon]
-Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG
|
|-2nd Platoon-[Nenonen]
-Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG, Flamethrower team
|
|-3rd Platoon-[Man With Hat]
-Headquarters team, 3 squads, HMG, Flamethrower team
|
|-4th Platoon-[Dark_Swordmaster]
-Panzershrek team


III 4th Company (Weapons Company)-[TonySnow]
-Headquarters team
|
|-Machine Gun Platoon-[Jobbo_Fett]
-Headquarters team, 3 HMG's
|
|-1st Platoon-(Mortar [medium])-[gbuchold]
-Headquarters team, 2 81mm Mortars (sGrW34), 2 Medium Mortars
|
|-2nd Platoon-(Mortar [medium])-[ForeverBWFC]
-Headquarters team, 2 81mm Mortars (sGrW34), 2 Medium Mortars
|
|-Tank Hunter Platoon-[NattyNinefingers]
-Panzerschreck Team, Tank Hunter team
|

IV Tanks -[orders directly from unwantedplatypus]
-Panzer VA (Mid) x3-[YGMIR],[DagPenge],[Soup Inspector]
-Panzer IVJ (Early)-[Zyrden]
-Panzer IVH (Late)-[anilEhilated]


Here is the link to the spreadsheet for discussion/orders

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dit?usp=sharing

I don't really care in what way you put your orders in, just do so in a clear way.

unwantedplatypus fucked around with this message at Jul 9, 2014 around 00:19

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

Bacarruda posted:

Platypus, it seems like we're a bit short-handed on anti-tank and artillery capacity. The Soviets are probably going to bring a shitload of tanks and I'm worried an infantry-heavy force is going to get curbstomped pretty quickly. A couple of StuGs or Hetzers might be a nice addition to our lineup. Plus, having more armor might let us send one or two pieces of armor into town to help our infantry take objective. The Soviet infantry don't have much in the way of AT weapons, so an armor-infantry combo should be able to roll them up pretty quickly.

I think some artillery might also be a good addition. It'd be nice to deny them the use of the fords by hitting it with some sporadic fire.

I'm fine with deleting my Fusilier company if we need to free up some more points for armor or artillery.

The panzerIV J and the stug III share the same gun. PanzerIVs are less expensive so I feel it would be wiser to just add more of those then add TDs. Unless there is some other advantage to TDs I don't know of.

As for artillery, can't we use the mortars?

lenoon posted:

Do we need that many flamethrowers?

They either come with the fusiliers or grey added them when I requested "Just use whatever points we have left, prioritizing AT"

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Pacific Command


unwantedplatypus posted:

They either come with the fusiliers or grey added them when I requested "Just use whatever points we have left, prioritizing AT"

They come with them.

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

Dropping a fusilier company would give us the ability to buy 2-3 more panzer4s or 2 stugs.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


On map mortars work fine if we don't have bigger off map guns, just keep in mind they're obviously not as mean.

We should formulate plans and draw on Grey's nice map!

Also, I literally cannot overstate the importance of C2 (Command and Control), keeping units in contact with their superiors, for on map.mortars. Nothing is worse than having a barrage you want to happen and seeing "Out of Contact" on the mortar portrait.

Soup Inspector
Jun 5, 2013


unwantedplatypus posted:

I couldn't cram everyone in so it was first come first serve, sorry to those who I left out.

It's cool. I'll cheer on my compatriots and offer terrible advice!

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011


lenoon posted:

Do we need that many flamethrowers?

Could we delete some of the flammenwerfer teams and replace them with Panzerschreck teams? The Russians will probably send tanks into the village and I'd like to have some counter to that

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.



Here is a nice little mockup of the most predictable opening stages.

The Soviets will most likely send the majority of their forces along the axis of the big red arrow. While the most rightmost ford is safer, it is a slightly longer route and is blocked by a marsh and trees. If they send any forces there, expect them to be light. The tree line marked by a red line will be our death if we let it. From there soviet guns will be able to shoot straight towards our ford crossing and that would be a massacre.

Observing this our goal is simple, get through the ford and into the village ASAP. However, we have a lot of heavy equipment such as mortars or HMGs. For those, the leftmost ford might be a better option. Though it is a long route, it is a much safer crossing.

I'll let you guys discuss some more/ modify our force comp before I give any actual orders.

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011


unwantedplatypus posted:



Here is a nice little mockup of the most predictable opening stages.

The Soviets will most likely send the majority of their forces along the axis of the big red arrow. While the most rightmost ford is safer, it is a slightly longer route and is blocked by a marsh and trees. If they send any forces there, expect them to be light. The tree line marked by a red line will be our death if we let it. From there soviet guns will be able to shoot straight towards our ford crossing and that would be a massacre.

Observing this our goal is simple, get through the ford and into the village ASAP. However, we have a lot of heavy equipment such as mortars or HMGs. For those, the leftmost ford might be a better option. Though it is a long route, it is a much safer crossing.

I'll let you guys discuss some more/ modify our force comp before I give any actual orders.

This is why I think some artillery might be helpful. Unless they're being a bunch of wacky goons, the Soviets have brought along a good amount of infantry. And the least-exposed place for those infantry to cross is through that swamp. A well-timed barrage of artillery or heavy mortars from a pre-planned fire mission could catch a company+ of men as they are bogged down in mud trying to ford. I's the most obvious bottleneck on the map and we should be ready to exploit it.

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

Bacarruda posted:

This is why I think some artillery might be helpful. Unless they're being a bunch of wacky goons, the Soviets have brought along a good amount of infantry. And the least-exposed place for those infantry to cross is through that swamp. A well-timed barrage of artillery or heavy mortars from a pre-planned fire mission could catch a company+ of men as they are bogged down in mud trying to ford. I's the most obvious bottleneck on the map and we should be ready to exploit it.

Right, and by the time the soviets are crossing our mortars would still be getting into position, presumably.

Well if we drop a fusilier company we could get 2 more panzer 4s or stugs and a battery of 4 75mm howitzers.

eigenstate
Dec 21, 2011


The first thing to jump out at me is that our tanks come from the bargain bin of the store. The turret is hand cranked, and I assume the game will model this by making it slow. My fear is that if the Russians bring a heavy tank, we'll have absolutely no counter to that. Do we have veteran tank crews either?

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011


unwantedplatypus posted:

Right, and by the time the soviets are crossing our mortars would still be getting into position, presumably.

Well if we drop a fusilier company we could get 2 more panzer 4s or stugs and a battery of 4 75mm howitzers.

You'd have to double-check the ranges, but can't our 81mm and mediums reach that ford from our base (assuming they're deployed on round one)?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014


I'm going to assume that the reason StuG III's are more expensive is because they are shorter, making them more concealable.

eigenstate posted:

The first thing to jump out at me is that our tanks come from the bargain bin of the store. The turret is hand cranked, and I assume the game will model this by making it slow.

The PZ IV had a powered turret drive to turn it and could be hand cranked as a backup in the event that the electrics were knocked out.

Also, how far do our 81mm mortars reach? And I'll wait to see where they move before placing my movement orders.

Ygmir
Jan 27, 2012


Jobbo_Fett posted:

I'm going to assume that the reason StuG III's are more expensive is because they are shorter, making them more concealable.


The PZ IV had a powered turret drive to turn it and could be hand cranked as a backup in the event that the electrics were knocked out.

Also, how far do our 81mm mortars reach? And I'll wait to see where they move before placing my movement orders.

The PZ IV J got rid of the electric motor in the turret to make it more cost effective.

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

Bacarruda posted:

You'd have to double-check the ranges, but can't our 81mm and mediums reach that ford from our base (assuming they're deployed on round one)?

I don't know, the Red Thunder demo won't run on my computer.

an alternative may be setting them up behind the protection of this forest



just in time to bombard any enemy infantry crossing that ford.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014


Ygmir posted:

The PZ IV J got rid of the electric motor in the turret to make it more cost effective.

Just saw that in my books, apparently I can't read. Apologies all 'round.

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011


unwantedplatypus posted:

I don't know, the Red Thunder demo won't run on my computer.

an alternative may be setting them up behind the protection of this forest



just in time to bombard any enemy infantry crossing that ford.

No way in hell troops lugging heavy mortars can make it there before the Russians start to cross their fords.

Red Thunder has Russian desantniki (troops riding on the outside of T-34s), so the Russians have a good deal of tactical flexibility and mobility.

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

Bacarruda posted:

No way in hell troops lugging heavy mortars can make it there before the Russians start to cross their fords.

Red Thunder has Russian desantniki (troops riding on the outside of T-34s), so the Russians have a good deal of tactical flexibility and mobility.

Yes, but any Russian troops crossing that rightmost ford would have to dismount before they get to the marsh

Edit: If the Russian troops would still beat our mortars then scrap that idea.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014



It's just one scared tank crew talking, but can we actually cross the river before the Russians spot us? Getting caught in the middle of a ford could be painful and the second one from the left seems really unprotected.
I guess what I'm asking is how fast are tanks compared to infantry? Do we need some sort of special coordination?

edit: It also seems that we might need more direct anti-tank stuff. Just how useful are those flamethrowers anyway?

lenoon
Jan 7, 2010



Presumably we want to be using the mortars to put a stonk down on positions with a clear LOS to the fords just as we're about to cross them

eigenstate
Dec 21, 2011


unwantedplatypus posted:

I don't know, the Red Thunder demo won't run on my computer.

If you're running on a laptop with both discrete and integrated graphics cards and it crashes immediately on starting the game, then you have to manually switch to the discrete graphics card. I learned this myself yesterday.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


One of my main concerns for the treeline between our starting points is that the long strip, if left unattended, could easily provide a stealthy approach for a flank if we don't either rotate to face it, or at least have a scout watching. What I'd like to do is, depending on terrain height and other LoS factors, is to have a scouting team either either (maybe both) positions here with orders to hold fire, just providing recon. We'll see them crossing the open field between us with hopefully enough time to rotate some forces to face them, and if we're exceedingly lucky and they ARE going to flank through the outcropping, we might catch glimpses of them doing so and get a warning that way.

The scout team would either be and FO (a waste of one) or a separated, dedicated scout team from our trailing platoon so as to maintain the best C2 we can while they're so far away from their commander(s).





e: Re: Mortars: colon:

They can be set up in the corner and so long as there's radio contact they can fire when and where we want, barring the few minutes delay from them being so far back. They may even be able to direct fire (via LoS) on the town itself, but that's not a great thing and if left to fire at will they'll expend valuable ammo if they spot something. Obviously if the enemy can see in there they're vulnerable, but they should be safe to deploy in the backfield on turn one if we keep abreast of information.



Grey, will you offer a map to download and look at in the editor for people who own Red Thunder so we don't have to bother you about terrain shapes / LoS?

Dark_Swordmaster fucked around with this message at Jul 2, 2014 around 18:28

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

It is a foolish man indeed who attacks his fellow man when there are literal crocodile-men eating Virginians.


Here is some intelligence fresh from Oberst McNally at OKH.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Pacific Command


Sniped by Sniper!

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


From now on all images are made with our new grid referenced one. Well, I can't force you, but it's BEYOND recommended.

Also, in case my question gets lost here's me quoting myself.

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

e: Re: Mortars: colon:

They can be set up in the corner and so long as there's radio contact they can fire when and where we want, barring the few minutes delay from them being so far back. They may even be able to direct fire (via LoS) on the town itself, but that's not a great thing and if left to fire at will they'll expend valuable ammo if they spot something. Obviously if the enemy can see in there they're vulnerable, but they should be safe to deploy in the backfield on turn one if we keep abreast of information.



Grey, will you offer a map to download and look at in the editor for people who own Red Thunder so we don't have to bother you about terrain shapes / LoS?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014



I was just thinking something along the same lines. I could definitely have my HMG teams watching the east flank at G15-16 if the weapons company sets up in and around that location.

Bacarruda
Mar 30, 2011


Jobbo_Fett posted:

Also, how far do our 81mm mortars reach? And I'll wait to see where they move before placing my movement orders.

Then can hit targets from 50m to 2400m away. That means they can hit any target on a "Large" scale map in Combat Mission from their starting positions.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



Ygmir posted:

The PZ IV J got rid of the electric motor in the turret to make it more cost effective.

Yep, it's modelled like that too. With a judicious use of the cover arc it may be overcome, but that's not much of an option in this type of play I fear...

Q: how many Panzerschrecks do we have? What is the month, has Pf-60 entered yet?

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

Alright I like Jobbo Fett's ideas for the weapons company. After judging the distances It seems like it would be best for most of our forces to cross through the B8 ford while our fast units such as the panzergrenadiers and the tanks use the G12 ford. The tanks can then use the cover of the F10 forest to fire at enemies trying to cross at M9. The panzgren. would take up positions to stall the enemy's advance to the rail while our main force catches up.

edit: ^^^ We have a tank hunter and panzershrek team. Additionally I believe our infantry are equipped with panzerfausts

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

There are few things I like more than spreadsheets, so I made a spreadsheet!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dit?usp=sharing

I'm using it as a nice efficient way of counting up votes for certain issues at hand.

Nenonen
Oct 22, 2009



I have a bad feeling about this... We have only a platoon of badly aged tanks for longe range AT, and just one Schreck for medium range work. Unless it's foggy or night the terrain just isn't conducive to ambushing tanks at close range, so the Fausts are pretty much worthless though with the 60m variant there'd at least be some more options. Flamethrowers don't do much at all against tanks.

What I'm saying is we have no real chances at winning the tank battle. We also lack fast vehicles to grab the station with infantry, and in all likelihood Russian tank riders will be there first. In that case it's going to be an uphill battle because we also lack in artillery.

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

Nenonen posted:

I have a bad feeling about this... We have only a platoon of badly aged tanks for longe range AT, and just one Schreck for medium range work. Unless it's foggy or night the terrain just isn't conducive to ambushing tanks at close range, so the Fausts are pretty much worthless though with the 60m variant there'd at least be some more options. Flamethrowers don't do much at all against tanks.

What I'm saying is we have no real chances at winning the tank battle. We also lack fast vehicles to grab the station with infantry, and in all likelihood Russian tank riders will be there first. In that case it's going to be an uphill battle because we also lack in artillery.

We have the same number of points so I don't see how they could outclass us as badly as you are describing. The only major issue we face currently is that we lack long-range AT. We have two platoons of Panzergrenadiers in halftracks+ tanks for fast movers and 4 heavy mortars and 4 medium mortars for artillery.

As for AT either I buy 1-2 good tanks/tank destroyers, I replace the panzer 4s with stugs (and the stugs have the same gun), or I get AT guns.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014



Might be a good idea to actually allow people to write into the table, mein Kommandant.

the JJ
Mar 31, 2011


Lt. JJ reporting in. At least I think I'm Lt.

My thoughts so far:



If we're able to reach the G ford we're also able to fire into the LM ford, the only place for Russian tanks to cross and certainly their most expedient route. Interdiction there might prevent their tanks from reaching the village entirely. The hazard of course it enemy fire coming from the tree line, a hazard we'll face whether we intend to cross or to set up fire. G-13-14 has some cover, not much but maybe enough to play with LOS. That might let us make the ford unmolested but I think we'd still take fire mid river. It might also let us set up shots on the treeline/the gap before the LM ford.

Additionally I note the area in the grey triangle (hereafter 'the Tip.') It is as approximately close to our staging as L14, or their closest way of getting to the treeline to fire on our crossing. If we can 'win' with the right combo of fast-enough-to-get-there, slow enough to not fatigue out we can have HMG's and tanks pointed at their treeline from our own treeline. Not an ideal firefight maybe but enough to cover the G-ford. The drawback is, or course, any forces we stick out there have no good way of disengaging and making it to the village. L11-14 MUST be sighted in for bombardment. I think you can call in line bombardments and have a few locations dialed up ahead of time? Shelling infantry in trees off a preplanned shot wrecked the Allies in my last tour on the Western Front.

All speculation here based on a rough LOS=can hit basis. Quite possibly the range means that any such firing would be inefficient at best in which case ignore this.


Grey, can you post the pre-battle flyover vid? I don't want to try and dig it out of the neutral thread.

There also seems to be a semi-ford at 10-D that might be infantry suitable.

the JJ fucked around with this message at Jul 2, 2014 around 19:24

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

anilEhilated posted:

Might be a good idea to actually allow people to write into the table, mein Kommandant.

Right, I've set it so that anyone with the link can now edit. Sorry about that, but thanks for letting me know.

Soup Inspector
Jun 5, 2013


the JJ posted:


Grey, can you post the pre-battle flyover vid? I don't want to try and dig it out of the neutral thread.


Ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6dHuoDynjg


unwantedplatypus posted:

Right, I've set it so that anyone with the link can now edit. Sorry about that, but thanks for letting me know.

It's still coming up as uneditable...

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unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

My rhymes are weak and I have no flow.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...dit?usp=sharing

Try this link?

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