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Covok
May 27, 2013

I turn undead...with my mace!




Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) was the first roleplaying game. Over the years, it has seen many editions, supplements, and owners. While not always on top, it is the most well-known tabletop roleplaying game and is often people's first game. After three years in development, D&D is releasing its latest edition: D&D NEXT.

The fifth edition of the game is like its predecessors. In the sense that the game focuses on players exploring dangerous and mysterious dungeons and fighting horrid monsters like dragons. Just like in its predecessors, each player controls a single character (Player Characters) while one individual sets up the adventure and plays the monsters and non-player characters (The Game Master). As one might assume by dragons being in the title, D&D is a fantasy game. The default rules tend to assume a more high fantasy, germanic setting though many alternate settings are likely to be released.

The first book of this new edition launches tomorrow -- as of this posting -- on July 3rd. Get the official, legal, free pdf here.

dwarf74 posted:

Also, the "big" news, Basic D&D will be released to the general public, for free, via PDF, tomorrow or whenever WotC's servers stop choking from the added traffic.

It's going to be stripped-down, so while it will give us some idea about the game, it won't have everything and won't have much art.

It is going to have...
* The Big 4 classes, one "archetypal" build of each - Simple Fighter, Simple Rogue, Healer Cleric, and Blasty Wizard, going up to Level 20
* The Big 4 races, each with two subraces
* A selection of spells up to level 9
* Rules for the game

Eventually, it will also have
* Monsters up to Level 20
* Magic items
* Campaign advice

That's the theory anyway.

The Starter Set hopes to be an inexpensive gateaway into this new edition for players who prefer physical products. This set will only feature rules for PCs up to level 5. The Player's Handbook, which comes out in August, will give rules for players characters from first to max level. This will then be followed shortly by the Monster Manual and Dungeon Master's Guide.

This is the thread for the fifth edition of the game, as previously stated. We have other threads for 4th Edition, 3rd Edition, and OD&D, 1st, 2nd, and BECMI.

As the edition hasn't officially launched yet, there isn't much support to link to as of yet, but this will be updated as such things become available.

()A cheat sheet for NEXT created by forum poster, Ritorix
()D&D Adventurer's League: Play Organizers
()Official site for the digital game aid for 5e: Project Morningstar
()Hoard of the Dragon Queen

Now, I suppose it's time to refer to the elephant in the room. This is not the place to have edition wars about D&D. If you must do so, please use this topic instead.

Covok fucked around with this message at Aug 13, 2014 around 21:35

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zachol
Feb 13, 2009

Once per turn, you can Tribute 1 WATER monster you control (except this card) to Special Summon 1 WATER monster from your hand. The monster Special Summoned by this effect is destroyed if "Raging Eria" is removed from your side of the field.


I really like the art they've been posting. The one with the fighter for the PHB, and also like the dragon on the starter set.
Is there a specific individual artist doing all this? I remember way long ago, something about some slightly... odd looking halflings (big heads), was there followup on that or what?

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.


Also, the "big" news, Basic D&D will be released to the general public, for free, via PDF, tomorrow or whenever WotC's servers stop choking from the added traffic.

It's going to be stripped-down, so while it will give us some idea about the game, it won't have everything and won't have much art.

It is going to have...
* The Big 4 classes, one "archetypal" build of each - Simple Fighter, Simple Rogue, Healer Cleric, and Blasty Wizard, going up to Level 20
* The Big 4 races, each with two subraces
* A selection of spells up to level 9
* Rules for the game

Eventually, it will also have
* Monsters up to Level 20
* Magic items
* Campaign advice

That's the theory anyway.

Covok
May 27, 2013

I turn undead...with my mace!

dwarf74 posted:

Also, the "big" news, Basic D&D will be released to the general public, for free, via PDF, tomorrow or whenever WotC's servers stop choking from the added traffic.

It's going to be stripped-down, so while it will give us some idea about the game, it won't have everything and won't have much art.

It is going to have...
* The Big 4 classes, one "archetypal" build of each - Simple Fighter, Simple Rogue, Healer Cleric, and Blasty Wizard, going up to Level 20
* The Big 4 races, each with two subraces
* A selection of spells up to level 9
* Rules for the game

Eventually, it will also have
* Monsters up to Level 20
* Magic items
* Campaign advice

That's the theory anyway.

Added that in to the main post. I, for some reason, started talking about that then skipped it. Whoops. Thanks for pointing that out.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.


It's all good!

It will be a good glimpse of the system, but we won't get the full picture until probably November, when the DMG comes out.

I have grave doubts about the saving throw system, btw. My prediction is that it will need to be pretty heavily houseruled.

It goes something like this...

Wizard Spell Save DC = 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Int Modifier. At 1st level, this is 13. At 20th, this is 19.

"Good" Save Bonus (normally on a bumped stat) = Proficiency Bonus + Stat Modifier. At 1st, this is +5. At 20th, this is +11.
"Bad" Save Bonus (normally not bumped) = Stat modifier. At 1st, this is +0. At 20th, this is... +0.

There might be (hopefully!) some mitigating factors, but there's a good chance the game will go totally off the rails once a Wizard has access to Save-or-Suck spells against all 6 stats.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.


If you don't have an FLGS, the Amazon preorder discounts for all this year's releases look nice and deep.

zachol
Feb 13, 2009

Once per turn, you can Tribute 1 WATER monster you control (except this card) to Special Summon 1 WATER monster from your hand. The monster Special Summoned by this effect is destroyed if "Raging Eria" is removed from your side of the field.


dwarf74 posted:

There might be (hopefully!) some mitigating factors, but there's a good chance the game will go totally off the rails once a Wizard has access to Save-or-Suck spells against all 6 stats.

Well, hopefully monster and NPC design will have fairly balanced stat progression, regardless of how saves will generally go for PCs.
Regarding PCs, if Str, Int, and Cha are all "rare" saves, and this is actually acknowledged by the system, it might be an interesting way to have a particularly dangerous sort of enemy, as an effect with a much higher chance of going off than saves in general.

LFK
Jan 5, 2013


dwarf74 posted:

I have grave doubts about the saving throw system, btw. My prediction is that it will need to be pretty heavily houseruled.
This is one of the squidgier parts for me, too.

Ideally it works on the same principle as AC attacks: base accuracy is quite high creating diminishing returns on stacking additional accuracy. The problem is that the effects of spells are often much, much more severe than straight damage. Some of the key offenders have been constrained with HP requirements or Concentration (Creeping Doom, Confusion) preventing them doubling up with buffs, but there's a good chance that those constraints don't matter because the powers are just that powerful.

Quadratic_Wizard
Jun 7, 2011


Someone posted some higher level monster statblocks and it looks like solo enemies can just flat out NOPE and automatically pass a save X number of times.

So in a fight, a dracolich or whatever is going to get hit with the Fighter's maneuver that sends it sprawling because that's minor enough that it doesn't want to burn the resource, but when the cleric tosses a Hold Person at it, even if it targets the weakest save, the dracolich is still going to stay in the fight.

I actually like this a lot more than 4e's design where solos were pretty much immune to debuffs of any kind, with a "save at the start and end of your turn, get a +5 bonus to all saves, and immune to half a dozen of the most common effects" Take the dragons in 4e's Monster Vault. All of them have a 80% chance of passing every saving throw, and they automatically clear any stunning, dazing, or dominating effects at the end of their turn. Later, they get the ability to clear stunning and dominating off turn.

So, 5e's SoDs are about at the level of 4e's stuff, with everything either Save Ends or based on a damage threshold, and against solos, instead of saying "your (save ends) are pointless unless you're an optimized controller throwing down massive penalties", it becomes a resource management thing like hp. Simpler and more tactical. Win win.

moths
Aug 25, 2004



Quadratic_Wizard posted:

the Fighter's maneuver that sends it sprawling

Ok you had me up until here.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

dwarf74 posted:

* The Big 4 classes, one "archetypal" build of each - Simple Fighter, Simple Rogue, Healer Cleric, and Blasty Wizard, going up to Level 20

I'm not really sure how you would consider it the 'Blasty Wizard,' as they're getting a pretty big selection of spells to choose from.

I'm really hoping they've done something... anything to make the Rogue more effective than it is right now. Right now it's a markedly less effective Fighter whose biggest positive is their high DEX save.

Quadratic_Wizard posted:

Someone posted some higher level monster statblocks and it looks like solo enemies can just flat out NOPE and automatically pass a save X number of times.

It's worse than that. They have the option to retcon a failed save X times per day.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012
HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT HOW GODDAMN STUPID I AM


Just to tell you. D&D next is not the name of the game. It's officially just Dungeons and Dragons and is referred by the people making the game as D&D 5th Edition. This stated in twitter Next was the name of the playtest. This is not a big deal just somthing to point out.

Also I like the art as well the new Ogre looks quite smashing.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2014 around 14:25

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.


I just meant that the build/subclass was the Evoker. There's a decent variety of spells, in general.

Quadratic_Wizard
Jun 7, 2011


Father Wendigo posted:

I'm really hoping they've done something... anything to make the Rogue more effective than it is right now. Right now it's a markedly less effective Fighter whose biggest positive is their high DEX save.

Apparently rogues now have a faster sneak attack progression, with 2d6 at level 3 and 3d6 at level 5. With Cunning Action letting them hide constantly, it's not unreasonable to assume that they're not only sneak attacking each turn, but getting Advantage on most of those, and with how much of a godstat Dex is in 5e, they're pretty effective.

...except, they nerfed its out of combat abilities with fewer skills, smaller bonuses, and their ability to jump 10 feet longer and 5 feet higher is now "jump dex mod futher IF you get a running jump" while at the same time making a common magic item that triples the distance you can jump. Legendary thief with near superhuman agility? +4 feet. Put on some magic boots in the bargain bin? +20-40 feet. Oh, and rogues can't use medium armor anymore because reasons.

quote:

It's worse than that. They have the option to retcon a failed save X times per day.
Right. That's what I meant.

LFK
Jan 5, 2013


MonsterEnvy posted:

Just to tell you. D&D next is not the name of the game. It's officially just Dungeons and Dragons and is referred by the people making the game as D&D 5th Edition. This stated in twitter Next was the name of the playtest. This is not a big deal just somthing to point out.
I consider it a big deal, but only because I get to be a grouchy old man and say it reminds me too much of Pepsi and Spice Girls

quote:

Also here is the stats for a Young Green Dragon.


Wait, why is a green dragon amphibious?

moths posted:

Ok you had me up until here.
I'm fine with it. Beowulf ripped Grendel's arm off. Samson killed hundreds with the jawbone of a mule. Why can't a fighter deke out, or even push back, a dragon?

Quadratic_Wizard posted:

I actually like this a lot more than 4e's design where solos were pretty much immune to debuffs of any kind, with a "save at the start and end of your turn, get a +5 bonus to all saves, and immune to half a dozen of the most common effects" Take the dragons in 4e's Monster Vault. All of them have a 80% chance of passing every saving throw, and they automatically clear any stunning, dazing, or dominating effects at the end of their turn. Later, they get the ability to clear stunning and dominating off turn.
Eeeeeh, it's functional, but it's also bad. Or, rather, it's "low interaction" and quite unsatisfying in play. It creates a cold war where you either suck it up and bleed the insta-saves out of it or sit on your big spells waiting for the DM to slip up. At least 4e's system provided 1) tangible reduced results (stuns earn you a small action advantage) and 2) the chance of a lucky break. Because even if the odds are really crap, and the results are typically the same, a 20% chance that my bleed (or whatever) will stay up is far more fun than the DM being able to "nope" right out.

At the end of the day dealing with this crap is the hardest question any modern game needs to answer. Frankly they should have just stripped all the stuns and petrifies and "lol, gently caress you"s out of the game entirely.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

Quadratic_Wizard posted:

Apparently rogues now have a faster sneak attack progression, with 2d6 at level 3 and 3d6 at level 5. With Cunning Action letting them hide constantly, it's not unreasonable to assume that they're not only sneak attacking each turn, but getting Advantage on most of those, and with how much of a godstat Dex is in 5e, they're pretty effective.

...except, they nerfed its out of combat abilities with fewer skills, smaller bonuses, and their ability to jump 10 feet longer and 5 feet higher is now "jump dex mod futher IF you get a running jump" while at the same time making a common magic item that triples the distance you can jump. Legendary thief with near superhuman agility? +4 feet. Put on some magic boots in the bargain bin? +20-40 feet. Oh, and rogues can't use medium armor anymore because reasons.
Hell, they actually made it worse! The problem with Rogues wasn't damage, it's that the only major bullet point of the class was 'DAMAGE.' It's also hampered that it HAS to be ranged damage, since the Rogue's HP progression is the same as the Wizard and the class lacks ways to get proper distance from anyone due to Breakaway requiring a full move that gets you one square away. edit: They actually fixed that, it now halves your move. Still, a Crossbow or Longbow (Elf) is better and safer than your pointy-stick options.

On top of all of that, Sneak Damage quickly necessitates Magic Weapons or just Magic to avoid the 'Resists Mundane Damage' modifier that becomes common past level 6.

If somebody wants to be a Thief, they take the Thieves Guild Initiate. If they want to be masochistic, they play the Rogue.

Father Wendigo fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2014 around 05:42

moths
Aug 25, 2004



LFK posted:

I'm fine with it. Beowulf ripped Grendel's arm off. Samson killed hundreds with the jawbone of a mule. Why can't a fighter deke out, or even push back, a dragon?

I guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow to find out!

I've been following the development process rather closely, and nothing I've seen has given me confidence that we'll see non-casters doing anything remarkable. Even Quadratic_Wizard's hypothetical example of what a Fighter could do is hinged on the DM's evaluation that it's minor enough to ignore.

If Next isn't going to be dominated at every level by skinny dudes in robes, they haven't done much to indicate so.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012



Can't see image. Don't leech from enworld.

LFK
Jan 5, 2013


moths posted:

I guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow to find out!

I've been following the development process rather closely, and nothing I've seen has given me confidence that we'll see non-casters doing anything remarkable. Even Quadratic_Wizard's hypothetical example of what a Fighter could do is hinged on the DM's evaluation that it's minor enough to ignore.
Nah, we won't find out tomorrow. We already know the Basic fighter is "super duper improved crit" Path of the Warrior, so we need to wait until August to see the finished Weaponmaster.

Also Quadratic_Wizard's example was somewhat amiss, since Superiority maneuvers don't have a saving throw. The maneuver in question is Drive Back: if your superiority die is equal to or greater than the target's strength mod you push the target 15 feet away from you in a straight line, no save.

Still, yes, it did require the fighter's impact to be worth ignoring. Oh, man, could you imagine if fighters had, I dunno, crippling blows, or bleeds, or 100-damage Save-or-die execute abilities that were actually worth burning an insta-save on? Wild and radical thoughts!

quote:

If Next isn't going to be dominated at every level by skinny dudes in robes, they haven't done much to indicate so.
I think levels 1-4 are gonna belong to the archers. Then the skinny dudes take over.

Lothire
Jan 27, 2007

SailBob and Rx Suicide emailed me and all I got was this amazingly awesome forum account.

Been having a good time with one of the PbP games on here using the playtest. It's low level involving a lot of "I swing at it" action, but I'm interested in seeing how things play out as we go. They've announced a digital toolset in the works (Morningstar by Trapdoor Technologies) some time ago. There was also a lot of talk about how they want to listen to community feedback before they start making changes/erratas, while also giving those changes out to the public as test phases before deciding to commit to them.

It's a lot of nice talk but we'll see if they hold up on that end. I'm expecting some changes from the playtest packet at least. My concern right now is kind of superficial, in that I really hope to see two weapon fighting with longswords, currently impossible by playtest rules. It's been a staple of one of my favorite characters for a long time, hate to be unable to recreate it.

LFK
Jan 5, 2013


Lothire posted:

Been having a good time with one of the PbP games on here using the playtest. It's low level involving a lot of "I swing at it" action, but I'm interested in seeing how things play out as we go. They've announced a digital toolset in the works (Morningstar by Trapdoor Technologies) some time ago. There was also a lot of talk about how they want to listen to community feedback before they start making changes/erratas, while also giving those changes out to the public as test phases before deciding to commit to them.

It's a lot of nice talk but we'll see if they hold up on that end. I'm expecting some changes from the playtest packet at least. My concern right now is kind of superficial, in that I really hope to see two weapon fighting with longswords, currently impossible by playtest rules. It's been a staple of one of my favorite characters for a long time, hate to be unable to recreate it.
Within the microcosm of martial characters 2WF with longswords is "OP" in the sense that it becomes the best option by a healthy margin. Design wise you have to think about it backwards: 2WF is more meant to boost the value and use of smaller, lighter weapons, and not the other way around. If you can 2WF with any 1-hander then the only real question is "what's the biggest stick I can swing?" and the reasons to use a shortsword are as follows:



Something that D&D has long struggled with is inserting specificity where it really ought to stick with generalities. For example you want to use longwords, probably because of the mental image you have of your character, the mental image you have of a longsword, and (we can be honest) the d8 damage dice. But a longsword isn't strictly a longsword: it's any and every 1d8 (1d10 Versatile) slashing weapon. In the same measure a scimitar is any and every slashing weapon that you use with 2WF." So why call it a longsword or scimitar and not "versatile 1d8 slashing weapon"? Because "longsword" is more evocative and less clinical and dispassionate than an uncut stat block.

FRINGE
May 23, 2003


LFK posted:

the reasons to use a shortsword are as follows:


The reintroduction of Speed Factor or something similar could help that.

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

shut up blue stymie


Speed factor rules are cumbersome and boring

LFK
Jan 5, 2013


FRINGE posted:

The reintroduction of Speed Factor or something similar could help that.
Eeeeeeehhhhhhhhhh, for my money I'd rather have the dissonance of "longsword actually means all these different swords" than bringing back unwieldy timing mechanics just so that longsword=longsword (especially since that specificity creates its own problems since, you know, what should a khopesh and a nimcha and a kukri and a talwar and a szabala be?! and as much fun as I had reading the old arms and equipment splat books, they were kinda a waste of space.)

Lothire
Jan 27, 2007

SailBob and Rx Suicide emailed me and all I got was this amazingly awesome forum account.

Also worth mentioning that they changed the weight of Scimitars to be "light" weapons in order to conform to this two weapon fighting system, where they've been medium weapons in prior editions. So while we may have distinction between Longswords and Shortsword with this system, we no longer do between Scimitar and Shortsword (both light, finesse weapons).

I understand the reasons behind the system, but that doesn't make it any easier to swallow. More than just the damage die (although that's just as much a point as any other), but now a plate wearing fighter can't dual wield longswords, or a barbarian dwarf his battleaxes. Such builds are almost iconic to D&D in recent years, yet we will be lacking them here.

FRINGE
May 23, 2003


LFK posted:

especially since that specificity creates its own problems since, you know, what should a khopesh and a nimcha and a kukri and a talwar and a szabala be?!
Sure, but having something more streamlined (as a MODULE lol) would be alright. Even if it was just 4 basic layers. (Equivalent to dagger, short sword, long sword, 2h sword.)

Then there is a specific advantage to short swords, and a reason that people might specialize with them etc.

FRINGE
May 23, 2003


Lothire posted:

Also worth mentioning that they changed the weight of Scimitars to be "light" weapons in order to conform to this two weapon fighting system, where they've been medium weapons in prior editions. So while we may have distinction between Longswords and Shortsword with this system, we no longer do between Scimitar and Shortsword (both light, finesse weapons).

The weapon nerd in me hates this.

P.d0t
Dec 27, 2007
I released my finger from the trigger, and then it was over...

D&D weapons are too granular, I prefer abstracting that out.
If the damage die of two weapons is the same, and the only differences are weight and cost (which only really matter at low level) or damage type (because gently caress mundanes) than I think that's pretty bad design.

Woden
May 6, 2006


Father Wendigo posted:

Hell, they actually made it worse! The problem with Rogues wasn't damage, it's that the only major bullet point of the class was 'DAMAGE.' It's also hampered that it HAS to be ranged damage, since the Rogue's HP progression is the same as the Wizard and the class lacks ways to get proper distance from anyone due to Breakaway requiring a full move that gets you one square away. edit: They actually fixed that, it now halves your move. Still, a Crossbow or Longbow (Elf) is better and safer than your pointy-stick options.

On top of all of that, Sneak Damage quickly necessitates Magic Weapons or just Magic to avoid the 'Resists Mundane Damage' modifier that becomes common past level 6.

If somebody wants to be a Thief, they take the Thieves Guild Initiate. If they want to be masochistic, they play the Rogue.

Doesn't rogue evasion halve damage from everything now? Maybe it was defensive roll or something, but I'm sure I read they had an ability like that at level 6 or so in the Dead in Thay play test.

Woden fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2014 around 08:06

Quadratic_Wizard
Jun 7, 2011


Starter pregen for the rogue leaked, and they get Uncanny Dodge at level 5, which lets them halve the damage of any attack that hits them, once per round. They also have a d8 hitdie now.

moths
Aug 25, 2004



So Rogues get to Roll With It? I wonder just how much of the starter will have (*as seen in 13th Age) citations.

e:
Power: Roll With It. Spend momentum when an enemy hits your AC to take half damage.

moths fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2014 around 10:28

Jack the Lad
Jan 20, 2009

Feed the Pubs


Quadratic_Wizard posted:

So, 5e's SoDs are about at the level of 4e's stuff, with everything either Save Ends or based on a damage threshold
Nope, there are a bunch of straight up Save or Dies: Beholder petrification, Death Knight soul steal etc.

Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2014 around 11:18

Quadratic_Wizard
Jun 7, 2011


moths posted:

So Rogues get to Roll With It? I wonder just how much of the starter will have (*as seen in 13th Age) citations.

e:
Power: Roll With It. Spend momentum when an enemy hits your AC to take half damage.

Yep, only, you know, they can do it without momentum. And against any kind of attack, AC targeting or not.

Really, the rogue is one of the messiest classes in 13a. The momentum mechanic is nice in theory, but since you're capped at holding only 1 point of it from level 1 till the end, it means the rogue scales in power really poorly. New powers just give new, mostly equivalent options, while the other classes get new options they can actually reliably use.

Jack the Lad posted:

Nope, there are a bunch of straight up Save or Dies: Beholder petrification, Death Knight soul steal etc.

Ah, yeah, I was just talking about the PC spells.

Jack the Lad
Jan 20, 2009

Feed the Pubs


LFK posted:

I'm fine with it. Beowulf ripped Grendel's arm off. Samson killed hundreds with the jawbone of a mule. Why can't a fighter deke out, or even push back, a dragon?

Interestingly, Beowulf was cited in the Fighter Design Goals article back in 2012:

quote:

3. The Fighter Exists in a World of Myth, Fantasy, and Legend

Keeping in mind the point above, we also have to remember that while the fighter draws on mundane talent, we’re talking about mundane within the context of a mythical, fantasy setting. Beowulf slew Grendel by tearing his arm off. He later killed a dragon almost singlehandedly. Roland slew or gravely injured four hundred Saracens in a single battle. In the world of D&D, a skilled fighter is a one-person army. You can expect fighters to do fairly mundane things with weapons, but with such overwhelming skill that none can hope to stand against them.

moths
Aug 25, 2004



It's not really a "point," it's a binary condition that you either have or don't. The rogue is either killing or being killed, and it's a mechanic that encourages killing. But while I don't think it was a good idea to dumb it down for a D&D martial class, it was entirely consistent with the design philosophy.

Any word on when it's coming out? Mearls tweeted yesterday that the file was finished sometime in the afternoon.

Jack the Lad
Jan 20, 2009

Feed the Pubs


moths posted:

out? Mearls tweeted yesterday that the file was finished sometime in the afternoon.

I think he later said 'working hours, can't be more precise than that'

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

This ancient path
is cracked and split
with the bones of those
who couldn't deal with it


Translation: 4:59 PM PST.

treeboy
Nov 13, 2004

James T. Kirk was a great man, but that was another life.


Quadratic_Wizard posted:

Starter pregen for the rogue leaked, and they get Uncanny Dodge at level 5, which lets them halve the damage of any attack that hits them, once per round. They also have a d8 hitdie now.

this gives me some hope they're actually paying attention to things. Perhaps not limiting the Wizard and giving him actual boundaries, but perhaps recognizing the worth of a generally functional party as more than support.

Also regarding monster saves vs. effects. It'd be hilarious if, in effect, the wizard becomes far less useful (though still important as a save "soak") since the DM blows all his auto saves vs. wizard effects, thus allowing the martial characters to shine do things.

"Here, have the power of the cosmos"
"BUT HE JUST SAVES OUT OF IT!"
"Heh"

treeboy fucked around with this message at Jul 3, 2014 around 12:47

ritorix
Jul 22, 2007

Vancian Roulette


Noon EST is when they are releasing it, servers willing.

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Jack the Lad
Jan 20, 2009

Feed the Pubs


ritorix posted:

Noon EST is when they are releasing it, servers willing.

Where's that from?

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