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Woden posted:Doesn't rogue evasion halve damage from everything now? Maybe it was defensive roll or something, but I'm sure I read they had an ability like that at level 6 or so in the Dead in Thay play test. This is true, they can cannibalize their Reaction to halve damage. It's still an issue due to their lackluster HP, though, and the encounter designs thus far indicate that there are usually swarms of enemies to contend with, but only one Reaction for the lot. Read up on the Rogue in The New poo poo, some good and bad: Good: *d8 HD progression adds something for the class. *Latter half of the general tree has some nice quality of life things built on the assumption the game is Dungeon Crawl exclusive. *Evasion (Formerly Uncanny Dodge) is moved up a level Bad: *Sneak Attack now requires a Finesse Weapon when being used in Melee. *You can't get Sneak Attack if you're at Disadvantage. *Expertise is now gated to only starting with two skills. *Thieve's Cant still takes 4 times as long to convey something as opposed to just saying it. One step forward, two steps back for Mr. Rogue. Father Wendigo fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 19:03
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Quadratic_Wizard posted:Second, mind-bogglingly, opportunity attacks are still a reaction. This is a big problem, because classes need their Reactions for other things, like the rogue's Uncanny Dodge or the Fighter's Protection feature. Since you're limited to 1/round, you can't do both in the same round. If you're holding off three goblins, you can't make any OAs after the first one. Say what you want about the 13th Age Fighter — at least it still has its oportunity attacks.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:04
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dwarf74 posted:I was explaining what version I was referring to, pointing out that it was stronger in the one I was referring to. The February playtest was the first doc I looked at so there have could been a bunch more changes. My Next game is tonight. I need to convince my DM we should play a different system.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:04
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Father Wendigo posted:*Rogues are no longer proficient in Simple Ranged Weapons. It's Hand Crossbow or nothin', Chauncey.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:07
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whydirt posted:Rogues are proficient with all Simple Weapons and can even start with a shortbow as a default piece of equipment. Yeah, I misread Simple Weapons as Simple Melee Weapons. 
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Jul 3, 2014 19:12
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As far as DC's...I can't find suggested DC's for things like locks, so +10 doesn't mean much if Rogues can easily get significant bonuses to their thievery checks (Rogue with +3 dex mod will have a +7 proficiency bonus assuming prof. with Thieves Tools @lvl1) e: If an average Lock is DC10, Arcane Lock would bump that to DC20. A lvl 1 Rogue (Dex +3) has a 1d20+7, or 13+ (40%) to unlock. Assuming Primary stat @lvl 4 it'd be 1d20+10 (55%) at lvl 5 or just take 10. It definitely makes locks trickier, but hardly breaks the math. By lvl 11 you're guranteed to open an average arcane lock and without using a spell slot or alerting the entire dungeon. treeboy fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 19:13
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Father Wendigo posted:*Expertise is now gated to only starting with two skills. Their background gives them Proficiency in two categories already so they get another 2 skills to uses well. That sounds pretty good.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:18
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The fighter can at least do eight attacks in a single round at max level. Which seems impressive, although I have no idea what the math on expected damage/attack looks like at that level. (And possibly it goes up to 12 attacks if any of the other Archtypes provide a reliable way to get a bonus action.)
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Jul 3, 2014 19:25
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LongDarkNight posted:Those are the saves it has proficency in. For STR and INT you'd just use the straight bonus. It's not a great way to present the information. Wow. Back to divining the meaning behind each monster, then.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:32
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I'm also curious about concentration spells in general. They're extremely powerful but prevent any other concentration spells from being cast without immediately ending the other effect. While a dick DM could (potentially, barring successful save) lockdown a single character for a whole fight, I have a feeling there'll be more switching between them than that. Keep them up for a bit so you're not just wasting spells once a round, but keep them up too long and you're neutering your flexibility and other options.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:33
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Concentration is a good mechanic. Now, imagine if special fighting stances, stubborn denials of mortal wounds, etc, were powered by concentration.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:42
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Huh. Not only does the Basic wizard have 3.x era Psion mechanics with Overchannel, but it even gives the damage a damage type so the wizard can resist the side effects of using it again.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:46
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Yeah concentration is a straight-up good mechanic. I'll totally steal it if/when I ever run BECMI D&D again.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:47
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I wonder if the advanced races are going to have subraces, too. That'd be rad.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:55
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Apparently Concentration can be interrupted as well.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:01
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Caveat: I stopped reading the playtest packets ages ago. Reading through the freeware packet I had some initial thoughts. On the good side - this game looks like it'll be pretty fun at low level. Particularly for a quick, light-hearted murderhobo sort of game. If I wanted to actually run dragons re/dungeons this would be a pretty decent choice, provided I wasn't interested in any more modern sensibilities. Like, that is, if I wanted a game full of deadly traps and easy-come-easy-go dead characters, I think this would be fun, and I would totally run it in that context. Of course, as always, Wizard Edition looks like it'll kick in around level 6 or 7. The limited spell slots and the concentration mechanics will probably reign in Wizards for a few additional levels than we expected to see in 3.x but I'm sure they'll take off into the horizon eventually. On the whole not awful and potentially really cool. I dunno, would play, not particularly impressed or surprised, but I think there's potential and the devil is in the details.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:01
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Father Wendigo posted:*Expertise is now gated to only starting with two skills. You start with 4. 2 from background 2 from being a rouge then at level 6 you get another 2.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:03
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Quadratic_Wizard posted:Lots and lots to hate with this. Hmmm... I think I'm actually okay with opportunity attacks being a reaction. It'd be kinda neat to be able to actually overwhelm someone. I mean, if you are standing there surrounded its going to be difficult to divide your attention to multiple opponents, plus all the other things you could do with your reaction. I hope, though, that there are eventually options to add more reactions. If not, that'd be something easy to house-rule. Would be cool to grow into some multi-opponent master. I suppose your extreme example is possible, but then you just call your DM a dick (or congratulate their cleverness in luring you into that situation) and move on.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:03
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lord_daeloth posted:Hmmm... I think I'm actually okay with opportunity attacks being a reaction. It'd be kinda neat to be able to actually overwhelm someone. I mean, if you are standing there surrounded its going to be difficult to divide your attention to multiple opponents, plus all the other things you could do with your reaction. I hope, though, that there are eventually options to add more reactions. If not, that'd be something easy to house-rule. Would be cool to grow into some multi-opponent master. I suppose your extreme example is possible, but then you just call your DM a dick (or congratulate their cleverness in luring you into that situation) and move on. Plus, in theory, it means having multiple martials might actually be a good thing!
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Jul 3, 2014 20:05
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MonsterEnvy posted:Their background gives them Proficiency in two categories already so they get another 2 skills to uses well. That sounds pretty good. Reread it. They start out with Proficiency in 4 skills, and Expertise doubles their proficiency with 2 of those skills per tier. Expertise was previously a flat bonus to your choice of four out of the gate. I'll admit the changes to proficiency are nice, and can help cope with the fact that their better skills (Investigation, Perception, Persuasion) pull from the spectrum of Ability Scores that don't deal with DEX. That said, only getting two doubled until 6th puts more emphasis on the weaknesses of the early game. Of course, this is all assuming that they're using the 'Flat Math' for skill DCs as well. Where are the guidelines for DCs? MonsterEnvy posted:You start with 4. 2 from background 2 from being a rouge then at level 6 you get another 2. Quote/Edit mishap? Father Wendigo fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 20:07
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Mormon Star Wars posted:I wonder if the advanced races are going to have subraces, too. That'd be rad. None of the other races had subrace options from what I recall. Also I would rock the variant Human every time.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:08
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lord_daeloth posted:Hmmm... I think I'm actually okay with opportunity attacks being a reaction. It'd be kinda neat to be able to actually overwhelm someone. I mean, if you are standing there surrounded its going to be difficult to divide your attention to multiple opponents, plus all the other things you could do with your reaction. I hope, though, that there are eventually options to add more reactions. If not, that'd be something easy to house-rule. Would be cool to grow into some multi-opponent master. I suppose your extreme example is possible, but then you just call your DM a dick (or congratulate their cleverness in luring you into that situation) and move on. The problem is if you need to use your reaction defensively, or if that's an option. Being able to opportunity attack and use one reaction to stop yourself from taking a beating seems more reasonable than one or the other. Also, where is the concentration mechanic people are talking about? I didn't find it in the spellcasting section, but it's possible I missed it.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:18
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Pages 79-80
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Jul 3, 2014 20:21
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RPZip posted:Also, where is the concentration mechanic people are talking about? I didn't find it in the spellcasting section, but it's possible I missed it.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:21
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Lothire posted:I understand the reasons behind the system, but that doesn't make it any easier to swallow. More than just the damage die (although that's just as much a point as any other), but now a plate wearing fighter can't dual wield longswords, or a barbarian dwarf his battleaxes. Such builds are almost iconic to D&D in recent years, yet we will be lacking them here. I can't tell if this post is a joke.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:22
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They caved to that insane damage on a miss guy.quote:Great Weapon Fighting: When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2
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Jul 3, 2014 20:23
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Rulebook Heavily posted:Huh. Not only does the Basic wizard have 3.x era Psion mechanics with Overchannel, but it even gives the damage a damage type so the wizard can resist the side effects of using it again. Reread it, it explicitly states it bypasses any resists or reductions
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Jul 3, 2014 20:37
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RPZip posted:They caved to that insane damage on a miss guy.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:40
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Repost from that other thread: This is awesome. For real, no irony.  
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Jul 3, 2014 20:45
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RPZip posted:They caved to that insane damage on a miss guy. Payndz posted:Yeah, that was a drat shame, if only to witness his total meltdown if it had stayed in.  
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Jul 3, 2014 20:48
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dwarf74 posted:Repost from that other thread: This is AWESOME! Why must the system be lovely, WHY?!
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Jul 3, 2014 20:53
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Concentration looks interesting, and might be a soft-cap on the "cleric/druid just buff/debuff and then wade into melee" thing. It looks like it mostly effects buffs and some debuffs - Faerie Fire is effected, Sleep isn't.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:55
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Jack the Lad posted:Don't worry, Wizards have you covered. And it's stronger than the Fighter's was. Well most Cantrips don't offer a saving throw so it does not matter.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:57
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well most Cantrips don't offer a saving throw so it does not matter. Actually none of them do, because they changed them from requiring a saving throw in the playtest to requiring a Ranged Spell Attack in this release. It's obviously an oversight that they didn't update Potent Cantrips to be compatible.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:58
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well most Cantrips don't offer a saving throw so it does not matter. they're assuming it wasn't updated to the newer spells. I figure they forgot to get rid of it. alternate option: there are spells not in Basics that are affected by it.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:58
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Quadratic_Wizard posted:Oh boys, spells.Clerics of max level can cast whats so great about this spell? I legit don't understand why it's powerful
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Jul 3, 2014 21:15
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Disadvantage on all attacks is huge, and so is advantage on all saving throws; it works out to a ~+5/-5, so it's a save or suck on every enemy except without the save part. The enemies now just suck.
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Jul 3, 2014 21:19
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mastershakeman posted:whats so great about this spell? I legit don't understand why it's powerful
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Jul 3, 2014 21:19
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mastershakeman posted:whats so great about this spell? I legit don't understand why it's powerful also its a better version of an innate class skill the Fighter gets, thus the "anything you can do i can do better/longer/for more people"
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Jul 3, 2014 21:20
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dwarf74 posted:Repost from that other thread: The grog this thing is going to generate will be thick and creamy. Like the creamiest of thicknesses.
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