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Aurubin posted:BREAKING: House GOP reveals plan to fight global climate change There's no Bible 
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Jul 3, 2014 22:23
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disheveled posted:Yeah, paleo is more well-balanced and healthy than a typical American diet by far, but the rationale behind is it ridiculous and unscientific. A lot of the stuff they get right is by accident. You put it a lot better than me. But yeah paleo works in that it's not smashing down three Big Mac combo meals a day for your food intake, but is not in any way some magical secret 'unlock your inner caveman' diet. And honestly, I don't really care if the rationale for a diet is 'unlock your health through the power of NUTRIMITES AND VITAGROWS' if it results in people eating more healthily. The issue is when they get to the idiotic raw foodism, which I suppose goes part and parcel with the NUTRIMITES AND VITAGROWS stupidity. Bluh. I don't understand why people can't get "yo if you eat healthy stuff it's good for you and you'll be healthy" and need everything to be some trick. I used to be a fat guy and dropped a ton of weight just by not eating entire boxes of Cheezits in single sittings and jogging like 3-5 miles a week. idgi, it just takes time 
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Jul 3, 2014 22:25
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Magres posted:I don't understand why people can't get "yo if you eat healthy stuff it's good for you and you'll be healthy" and need everything to be some trick. I used to be a fat guy and dropped a ton of weight just by not eating entire boxes of Cheezits for a snack and jogging like 3-5 miles a week. Not at all by coincidence, look forward to the article I'm coauthoring that will hopefully start answering some parts of this question once it gets published. The current theory is it's partially caused by a form of psychology's information dilution effect. We're starting pilot data collection this week.
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Jul 3, 2014 22:28
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withak posted:The driving force would have been that you can make your product sweeter, and thus more appealing to the customer, by adding a bunch of government-funded corn syrup for very little increase in cost. If the cost of the added sweetness isn't subsidized then the math works out differently and we likely would have fewer sweetness-based calories going up on grocery store shelves. I suppose that's true, but I'm also not sure HFCS is cheap enough that it's an instant add. I could be wrong because I don't know the prices or the market. I would put far more blame on the hangover from the original food pyramid and "low fat" craze.
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Jul 3, 2014 22:28
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Joementum posted:Keep in mind that their alternatives include several governors under active investigation and Rand Paul. And Rick Perry, Glasses Edition.
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Jul 3, 2014 22:30
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Discendo Vox posted:Not at all by coincidence, look forward to the article I'm coauthoring that will hopefully start answering some parts of this question once it gets published. The current theory is it's partially caused by a form of psychology's information dilution effect. We're starting pilot data collection this week. What's the information dilution effect? A quick googling said it's something about how you can break down people's pre-conceived notions by including extraneous details to 'flesh out' the picture you're presenting. Is the idea that by presenting a diet that actually has a reasonable core set of instructions (ala the 'eat lean meat and veggies' paleo stuff) with a bunch of extraneous details (in the case of paleo the 'caveman' bullshit) you can get people to bite more easily? It would certainly explain why people love fad diets that generally don't work (well, this and the fact that a lot of fad crash diets promise to make you drop like 15 pounds in a week and a half) instead of actual working "EAT HEALTHY GOD DAMNIT" diets that a doctor will tell you?
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Jul 3, 2014 22:31
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Evil Fluffy posted:What makes you think that congress has the authority to micromanage the Commander in Chief? Unless those 120 are going to war with Somalia their authority begins and ends with funding. Watch Congress defund the CIA. Both publicly and privately. That's happened, when? And I'm not saying there's a Hoover, but, with the NSA/CIA programs, do you really want to take that risk? I'm really not a believer in conspiracy; only that which has been documented in the press. Its data, not metadata, that you can get. What safeguards exist to prevent this from being used against an outside agent?
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Jul 3, 2014 22:32
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Magres posted:I don't understand why people can't get "yo if you eat healthy stuff it's good for you and you'll be healthy" and need everything to be some trick. I used to be a fat guy and dropped a ton of weight just by not eating entire boxes of Cheezits in single sittings and jogging like 3-5 miles a week. idgi, it just takes time Everyone is fat as hell for the same reason they have tons of credit card debt. People are lazy, stupid, and impatient.
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Jul 3, 2014 22:34
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sleepingbuddha posted:Yep, they sound much worse (and dangerous) than Juggalos. I didn't notice any females mentioned either. I noticed a good many. The lesbian organizer, a bunch of moms complaining about topless folks (presumably female), a vendor-wife.
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Jul 3, 2014 22:34
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Jarmak posted:I don't know, because it wasn't? did you read those articles beyond the headlines? http://www.thenation.com/article/secret-us-war-pakistan quote:At a covert forward operating base run by the US Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) in the Pakistani port city of Karachi, members of an elite division of Blackwater are at the center of a secret program in which they plan targeted assassinations of suspected Taliban and Al Qaeda operatives, "snatch and grabs" of high-value targets and other sensitive action inside and outside Pakistan, an investigation by The Nation has found. The Blackwater operatives also assist in gathering intelligence and help direct a secret US military drone bombing campaign that runs parallel to the well-documented CIA predator strikes, according to a well-placed source within the US military intelligence apparatus. Do you want to keep putting your foot in your mouth? It's a complete non-secret that the intelligence community uses contractors on a regular basis. Yes, most PMCs are running mess halls and providing base security, but pretending that's the extent of it is just blind naivete. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 22:36
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drat it, nutrition policy chat when I need to study for the bar- last one before I go. Approximately speaking, and modified to fit our study, dilution effect theory is that the provision of additional distractor information of low diagnostic importance (eat like a caveman, processed foods, low carb, etc) dilutes the perceived importance of central, high diagnostic information (consume fewer calories, burn more calories). I've linked one of the original publications that spawned it. As you can see, it's been modified and applied in a wide array of settings, with varying effect. It's not the exact fad diet question, but if it turns out to be strongly supported it would explain one part of why people follow paleo, juice purges, Atkins etc when the actual practices necessary for weight loss (eat less and get off your rear end) are rigorously documented and well-known.
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Jul 3, 2014 22:39
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People eating healthy for scientifically incorrect reasons would still be a huge step up from what we have right now!
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Jul 3, 2014 22:46
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withak posted:I think the problem with HFCS is that it so cheap that it can put in anything in great quantities. If sweetened foods had to be made with sugar instead then people wouldn't be able to afford as many high-calorie snacks. It isn't that it is cheap, it is that if you use it you then you get a tax credit. Hence why it is loaded into everything Then to offset the taste (since it gets added to things that don't call for sugar) they dump in a bunch of salt. So you get the 1-2 punch of a bunch of sugar and high sodium
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Jul 3, 2014 22:52
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Fried Chicken posted:It isn't that it is cheap, it is that if you use it you then you get a tax credit. Hence why it is loaded into everything It seems there's a growing trend to replace with, literally, wood.
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Jul 3, 2014 22:55
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Fried Chicken posted:It isn't that it is cheap, it is that if you use it you then you get a tax credit. Hence why it is loaded into everything We quite literally pay companies to put poo poo food that makes people fat on the shelf but then fight to the death over the idea of paying in any way to help make those people healthy again. Follow the logic: Pay a corn-producing multinational to make us all unhealthy? FREEDOM. Pay for someone's preventative treatment and nutrition advice? SOCIALISM. What the gently caress is this? COGNITIVE DISSONANCE or in many cases just STUPIDITY.
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Jul 3, 2014 22:59
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Yeah but what about all the job creators that own places that make lovely food?
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Jul 3, 2014 23:01
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JonathonSpectre posted:We quite literally pay companies to put poo poo food that makes people fat on the shelf but then fight to the death over the idea of paying in any way to help make those people healthy again. Follow the logic: No, We quite literally pay companies to put poo poo food that results in steady employment in a toss up state that kicks off the presidential primary. Don't confuse their motivations. It isn't stupidity or cognitive dissonance, it is having a different agenda
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Jul 3, 2014 23:13
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:http://www.thenation.com/article/secret-us-war-pakistan quote:The source said that the program is so "compartmentalized" that senior figures within the Obama administration and the US military chain of command may not be aware of its existence. Yup that totally sounds like "common knowledge". Congrats you found an anonymous source claiming there's a super secret program where the CIA outsourced some of its blackest of black bag stuff... maybe. Its the same program that those 4 other sources you posted said never happened. This all has jack poo poo to do with "US running a mercenary war in Iraq".
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Jul 3, 2014 23:22
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Fried Chicken posted:No, We quite literally pay companies to put poo poo food that results in steady employment in a toss up state that kicks off the presidential primary. Yeah, you cannot overestimate how import Iowa is in Presidential politics, especially for Republicans.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:28
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Hasters posted:Yeah, you cannot overestimate how import Iowa is in Presidential politics, especially for Republicans. Democrats too, remember that winning Iowa is what lit a fire for Obama
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Jul 3, 2014 23:29
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Once every four years, people remember Iowa exists.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:39
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Jarmak posted:Congrats you found an anonymous source claiming there's a super secret program where the CIA outsourced some of its blackest of black bag stuff... maybe. Its the same program that those 4 other sources you posted said never happened. quote:The previously unreported program, the military intelligence source said, is distinct from the CIA assassination program that the agency's director, Leon Panetta, announced he had canceled in June 2009. "This is a parallel operation to the CIA," said the source. Yes, it's an anonymous source, but The Nation is not some rag. Jarmak posted:This all has jack poo poo to do with "US running a mercenary war in Iraq". No, this has to do with your categorical denial the US would ever use any private contractors in anything beyond a security role. There's a variety of evidence that they are definitely used in roles like interrogating prisoners, planning operations, launching drones, and that using them for assassinations was considered seriously enough to spend a few million dollars on. There's less verifiable evidence that they were put in an active combat role, but this is a far cry from the security guards you're trying to characterize them as. quote:According to the former executive, Blackwater operatives also integrate with Kestral's forces in sensitive counterterrorism operations in the North-West Frontier Province, where they work in conjunction with the Pakistani Interior Ministry's paramilitary force, known as the Frontier Corps (alternately referred to as "frontier scouts"). The Blackwater personnel are technically advisers, but the former executive said that the line often gets blurred in the field. Blackwater "is providing the actual guidance on how to do [counterterrorism operations] and Kestral's folks are carrying a lot of them out, but they're having the guidance and the overwatch from some BW guys that will actually go out with the teams when they're executing the job," he said. "You can see how that can lead to other things in the border areas." He said that when Blackwater personnel are out with the Pakistani teams, sometimes its men engage in operations against suspected terrorists. "You've got BW guys that are assisting... and they're all going to want to go on the jobs--so they're going to go with them," he said. "So, the things that you're seeing in the news about how this Pakistani military group came in and raided this house or did this or did that--in some of those cases, you're going to have Western folks that are right there at the house, if not in the house." Blackwater, he said, is paid by the Pakistani government through Kestral for consulting services. "That gives the Pakistani government the cover to say, 'Hey, no, we don't have any Westerners doing this. It's all local and our people are doing it.' But it gets them the expertise that Westerners provide for [counterterrorism]-related work." AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 23:40
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Jarmak posted:Yup that totally sounds like "common knowledge". If you Google Blackwater, one of the first autocompletes is Blackwater Massacre Fallujah. Not many cooks and transportation specialists have the opportunity to do that.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:43
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Magres posted:Is the idea that by presenting a diet that actually has a reasonable core set of instructions (ala the 'eat lean meat and veggies' paleo stuff) with a bunch of extraneous details (in the case of paleo the 'caveman' bullshit) you can get people to bite more easily? It would certainly explain why people love fad diets that generally don't work (well, this and the fact that a lot of fad crash diets promise to make you drop like 15 pounds in a week and a half) instead of actual working "EAT HEALTHY GOD DAMNIT" diets that a doctor will tell you? I believe it is the same mental process as in getting "free" thing.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:46
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Yes, it's an anonymous source, but The Nation is not some rag. I actually listed a bunch of other poo poo contractors do besides security roles so that would be a weird assertion, I asked you "for doing what" in response to your first post as an honest question because I wasn't sure what capacity you were talking about and didn't want to say no in case you were referring to interrogations and non combat poo poo. I literally said in my first post on the subject they do a lot of supporting jobs. But go ahead and move the goal posts some more.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:48
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ImAMinister posted:If you Google Blackwater, one of the first autocompletes is Blackwater Massacre Fallujah. Not many cooks and transportation specialists have the opportunity to do that. They were grabbed while providing security for a civilian convoy? edit: To be clear I mean civilian as in "not military" not "Iraqi civilians" (though the first couple articles don't go into detail on the convoy so they could have been Iraqi civilians being paid to transport something, which happens allot)
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Jul 3, 2014 23:50
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ImAMinister posted:If you Google Blackwater, one of the first autocompletes is Blackwater Massacre Fallujah. Not many cooks and transportation specialists have the opportunity to do that. In that instance the mercs were the ones massacred. And its a shame you put that out there to get jumped on, because Blackwater is unbelievably loving sketchy and the GM of Iraq operations makes offhand "jokes" about killing state actors who could feasibly rein them in
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Jul 3, 2014 23:52
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Jarmak posted:They were grabbed while providing security for a civilian convoy? You know what? You're certainly right about the circumstances behind that and I was off base.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:54
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Willie Tomg posted:In that instance the mercs were the ones massacred. And its a shame you put that out there to get jumped on, because Blackwater is unbelievably loving sketchy and the GM of Iraq operations makes offhand jokes about killing state actors who could feasibly rein them in Oh agreed, I never meant to defend blackwater as a company or their personal, I was correcting the way people seem to have gotten an understanding of how contractors are used in Iraq/Afghanistan from playing Metal Gear Solid 4.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:54
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Jarmak posted:I actually listed a bunch of other poo poo contractors do besides security roles so that would be a weird assertion, I asked you "for doing what" in response to your first post as an honest question because I wasn't sure what capacity you were talking about and didn't want to say no in case you were referring to interrogations and non combat poo poo. I literally said in my first post on the subject they do a lot of supporting jobs. Do we really need to pull up the original quote? Jarmak posted:You guys seems to not really understand how PMCs are utilized at all, they aren't mercs that are sent out to do the job soldiers are. The most offensive operations they ever did was acting as body guards for VIPs working for/with the state department (what blackwater was doing when it caused all its trouble). How in the world are running drones and planning missions in close cooperation with intelligence services (and again, that is the bare minimum that has been independently verified) not "offensive operations"? Here, have another link: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/29/afghanistan.usa Is "tracking terrorists" in the mountains of Afghanistan also "non combat poo poo"? I guess they were just playing hide and seek or something? quote:Two CIA agents have been ambushed and killed in a mountainous border region of Afghanistan, the US military said today. quote:At its annual memorial ceremony this morning, the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) honored 83 employees who died in service to their country, including Christopher Glenn Mueller and William "Chief" Carlson, two civilian contractors killed in an ambush in Afghanistan last fall. AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 23:56
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disheveled posted:I suppose that's true, but I'm also not sure HFCS is cheap enough that it's an instant add. I could be wrong because I don't know the prices or the market. I would put far more blame on the hangover from the original food pyramid and "low fat" craze. Corn is currently so cheap it's literally impossible to actually make money at all from corn. The only reason corn can be grown profitably is massive government subsidies. The way it works is farmers get paid to grow poo poo loads of corn by the government. The amount of money is not based on demand for corn, the need for corn, or how much corn people it. It's literally just "we will give you $X if you grow corn on Y amount of land." This leads to gigantic amounts of overproduction so high that you can buy corn far, far below cost on the market. This is why corn is in pretty much everything right now. The food industry responded to "corn is disturbingly cheap" with "all of our food is now corn." It isn't that corn in and of itself is unhealthy or that HFCS is a death potion it's that our food is becoming increasingly corn. The human body can't thrive on just corn and the massive intake of simple carbs is causing increased calorie consumption, increased diabetes, and increased obesity. There are nutritional problems as well, as a lack of proper nutrients can cause more overeating, as can easy availability of simple, carb-heavy foods with little nutrition beyond carbs. That and the food industry keeps trying to make foods that you can eat five bags of every day and not feed satisfied. Different story though, and totally disconnected from what the food is being made out of. It's a complex thing. The simplest solution to it, though, is "buy things that are not junk food, do not live on corn chips and soda."
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Jul 3, 2014 23:56
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Jarmak posted:Oh agreed, I never meant to defend blackwater as a company or their personal, I was correcting the way people seem to have gotten an understanding of how contractors are used in Iraq/Afghanistan from playing Metal Gear Solid 4. Yeah that's also real dumb (on their part) because there's a lot of room to be Really Concerned about how infrastructural contractors are employed by the pentagon before you even get to the layer of "oh, btw, some of these dudes are also unaccountable cowboys who murder with impunity" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9a31lfDDvA
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Jul 4, 2014 00:20
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withak posted:I think the problem with HFCS is that it so cheap that it can put in anything in great quantities. If sweetened foods had to be made with sugar instead then people wouldn't be able to afford as many high-calorie snacks. Not only cheap, but artificially so. There are a bunch of ag subsidies that trigger whenever a certain amount of corn/corn derivative is included as an ingredient, so this creates incentives to add HFCS to a whole bunch of food products in order to get the subsidies. e; fb several times, but yeah, It isn't just that corn is dirt cheap, there are direct incentives for companies to add it to their recipes. It isn't a matter of 'so cheap it's an automatic add', it's 'add it and you'll get paid for doing so'. Ron Paul Atreides fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 00:31
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Why do we want so much corn? I thought corn was harsh on the soil?
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Jul 4, 2014 00:36
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Do we really need to pull up the original quote? Yes? Non combat people get ambushed and killed all the time, sometimes they even work with combat people and get killed during fights. It was very clear what was being discussed, what I was referring to, and what I was correcting. now you're just trying to play pedantic games to try and produce a "gotcha" I mean gently caress you tried to spring "gotcha" on me when I asked for clarification but you didn't check your sources. quote:Yeah that's also real dumb (on their part) because there's a lot of room to be Really Concerned about how infrastructural contractors are employed by the pentagon before you even get to the layer of "oh, btw, some of these dudes are also unaccountable cowboys who murder with impunity" Even the most die hard war junkie Iraq invasion fanboy should be concerned about the mismanagement of the contracting issue. Its only anecdotal but the reputation I always heard about blackwater (including from guys working with different PMC groups) was that they were a bunch of assholes and they paid the best but the company didn't give a gently caress about you and just threw you into dangerous spots without care or support. This is exactly the type of the environment that breeds the "gently caress everything I'm gonna do whatever it takes" cowboy attitudes that are evidenced in their shenanigans.
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Jul 4, 2014 00:37
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Femur posted:Why do we want so much corn? I thought corn was harsh on the soil? Because Iowa is where presidential primaries start and it's all corn out there. The agriculture lobby, while commanding a less hefty chunk of the budget than Military Contractors, is a huge force in pushing policy. Ron Paul Atreides fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 00:38
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Femur posted:Why do we want so much corn? I thought corn was harsh on the soil? Because the corn lobby has money. Also something like 90% of it's used for feed or industrial products. e: also the influence of Earl Butz when he was Ag Secretary
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Jul 4, 2014 00:42
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Corn is currently so cheap it's literally impossible to actually make money at all from corn. The only reason corn can be grown profitably is massive government subsidies. The way it works is farmers get paid to grow poo poo loads of corn by the government. The amount of money is not based on demand for corn, the need for corn, or how much corn people it. It's literally just "we will give you $X if you grow corn on Y amount of land." This leads to gigantic amounts of overproduction so high that you can buy corn far, far below cost on the market. This is why corn is in pretty much everything right now. The food industry responded to "corn is disturbingly cheap" with "all of our food is now corn." This isn't true at all. Corn's still above $4/bushel. Are you getting confused because it hit $8 a few years ago?
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Jul 4, 2014 00:47
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People talk a lot of poo poo about adding non-nutritive products to our food, but since we live in an environment where excess calories are the norm, using non-caloric bulking products makes sense to me. There are other ways of solving the problem but they don't offer a competitive price advantage. To me, it is the same thing as taxing soda. My more "rational" friends will argue that giving a government subsidy at the start and then an additional tax at the end is inefficient and doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. I agree. But going after things like corn and soy is a political non-starter. So we've got to work with the system we've got until the Revolution.
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Jul 4, 2014 00:50
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Jarmak posted:Yes? Non combat people get ambushed and killed all the time, sometimes they even work with combat people and get killed during fights. It was very clear what was being discussed, what I was referring to, and what I was correcting. now you're just trying to play pedantic games to try and produce a "gotcha" So in other words, if you define a combat role in the most narrow way possible, then PMCs weren't used in combat roles. What a convincing argument you've got there. Seriously, you've got an article in front of you where two civilian contractors were killed in action while, in the CIA's own words, "tracking terrorists" on the ground in a remote part of Afghanistan in close coordination with special operations forces. What kind of mental gymnastics does it take to convince yourself that this is not a combat role?
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Jul 4, 2014 00:50
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