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Alexzandvar posted:Religion is just a way of explaining how the world works and why things happen. Since humanity used to be pretty loving stupid and lived in caves we came up with the idea of gods because it was a easy way to explain everything that happened ever. Now we understand our environment and our existence and how it came to be, so people don't need religion anymore to explain why poo poo happens. People can get through their everyday life because they are sure in reality, we just don't take feeling from religion anymore. Have you met monotheism? Monotheism would like it's critique of polytheistic idols back. "they are sure in reality" Many people think the ineffable Real is what? It's almost like you are appealing to something higher and fundamentally true/real that we are all in and a part of.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:23
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Smoking Crow posted:They can be, but they aren't Haha, you dont even know what your own position is.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:25
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Who What Now posted:Haha, you dont even know what your own position is. I believe my position is 
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Jul 9, 2014 18:28
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hobby lobby thinks that condoms are abortions so logically you do too wrap it up christailures.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:28
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^^^^^ That but unironically ________ Smoking Crow posted:I believe my position is What is it with theocrats and being pedophiles?
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Jul 9, 2014 18:29
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Why?
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Jul 9, 2014 18:33
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Miltank posted:Does anyone here want to ban birth control? The OP doesn't and neither do I so why not PM kyrie elieson if you wanna have this fight? I reject that women are inherently property without the availability of contraceptives but luckily contraceptives aren't going away because that would make no sense. The OP does. And you're whitewashing how awful it was for women before reproductive control (and the other freedoms that came from it) became more common again. Without the ability to control if a man wants to force you into a fairly dangerous nine-month ordeal, women don't have the ability to be one even footing with men, and will thus be treated as chattle and brood mares. Christianity is nothing but religious rules, same as every other religion. Some might be worded more nebulously, but all affect final action so are as problematic as strictly written rules if not more so.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:36
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E-Tank posted:And please, enlighten us, oh great master. What is the meaning of life then? And if you say god, I'm docking 50 points from hufflepuff. The meaning of life is to love every human as if they were a member of your intimate community and to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind, strength, ect.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:36
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Miltank posted:The meaning of life is to love every human as if they were a member of your intimate community and to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul mind, strength, ect. Soul mind was my dump stat because I'm a sorcerer and not a Paladin.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:37
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Who What Now posted:What is it with theocrats and being pedophiles? 1) I am not a pedophile, sir. 2) I can't believe that you genuinely thought that a guy with an anime avatar doesn't like anime
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Jul 9, 2014 18:43
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Smoking Crow posted:I didn't say anything about outlawing birth control, but abortion is a no. I think that birth control should be easily available because church teaching on it is "use your conscience." So still not interested in answering what happens to sexual minorities in Glorious Russian Orthodoxia? You already want to outlaw something that religious people can do (abortion) because it's against church law, so it's not a stretch to ask whether you'd do the same for sexual minorities under a "you can be gay and Christian (but you're still getting fileted by the Inquisitor if you suck a cock!)" copout. Or are you going the contemporary Russian route of just denying religious or sexual minorities equal protection of the legal system and not bothering to prosecute crimes against them?
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Jul 9, 2014 18:44
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Smoking Crow posted:1) I am not a pedophile, sir. Anime is made exclusively for pedophiles. You like anime. You are a pedophile.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:45
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OP read this. http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=2310&C=2307 Why theocracy is bad is in there.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:45
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Well, if anything this thread has convinced me that it's time for another crusade against the Orthodox Church.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:47
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VitalSigns posted:So still not interested in answering what happens to sexual minorities in Glorious Russian Orthodoxia? Catholics, and probably Orthodox Christians too, are more likely than average to be pro-gay in the USA. The position outlined is one of religiously-oriented rule, not adopting the structure of the church into the government. Therefore, the proposed liturgical theocracy would have more support for gay rights than the USA does currently. Who What Now posted:Anime is made exclusively for pedophiles. You like anime. You are a pedophile. Ironclad logic.
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Jul 9, 2014 18:54
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Miltank posted:The meaning of life is to love every human as if they were a member of your intimate community and to love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind, strength, ect. 50 points from hufflepuff. I warned you. So the meaning of life is basically not what you make of it, it's that you have to suck up to a deity in the desperate hopes that he'll decide not to throw you into an eternal pit of hell. Really loving and forgiving god that. Anything he doesn't like? Congrats, you're going to hell. Such a lovely meaning to life. 
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Jul 9, 2014 18:58
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E-Tank posted:50 points from hufflepuff.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:00
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Little Blackfly posted:Well, if anything this thread has convinced me that it's time for another crusade against the Orthodox Church. Nah, it's all good. I tell you what, when I hear "benign theocracy", the first thing that comes to mind is the institution that clung to serfdom and feudalism until a German VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 19:02
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E-Tank posted:50 points from hufflepuff. Why would everyone get to make up your own personal meaning of life that doesn't make any sense. There is no such thing as Dante's hell just regular death.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:02
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VitalSigns posted:Nah, it's all good. I tell you what, when I hear "benign theocracy", the first thing that comes to mind is the institution that clung to serfdom and feudalism until a German empress finally shoved some slivers of change down their throats at gunpoint. Supporting the Tsars as they threw millions of men into the meatgrinder against the Turks, the Japanese, and the Germans in various centuries bodes well for the pacific nature of our proposed Orthodox theocracy as well. First of all, I would appreciate it if you would respond to my post instead of engaging in this sort of moral cowardice. Second of all, this is vaguely racist against Slavs and I have to ask if you are now, or have ever been, a member of the American National Socialist Party. Thirdly, you fundamentally do not understand the structure of the Orthodox Church and I have to question why we should treat your obvious ignorance with any respect.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:04
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Miltank posted:Why would everyone get to make up your own personal meaning of life that doesn't make any sense. There is no such thing as Dante's hell just regular death. So you say you're a christian, but you deny one of the big things of the faith. Namely, hell exists and god will totally condemn you to it if you so much as glance at him the wrong way. 
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Jul 9, 2014 19:04
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E-Tank posted:So you say you're a christian, but you deny one of the big things of the faith*. Namely, hell exists and god will totally condemn you to it if you so much as glance at him the wrong way. *Not really.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:06
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E-Tank posted:So you say you're a christian, but you deny one of the big things of the faith. Namely, hell exists and god will totally condemn you to it if you so much as glance at him the wrong way. The Orthodox Church hasn't believed in a place called Hell since the 4th century. We believe that everyone goes to heaven, it's just that being in God's presence will hurt you because you aren't one with God. This may or may not be a temporary state, as evidenced by Gregory of Nyssa and Clement of Alexandria.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:06
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Effectronica posted:Catholics, and probably Orthodox Christians too, are more likely than average to be pro-gay in the USA. The position outlined is one of religiously-oriented rule, not adopting the structure of the church into the government. Therefore, the proposed liturgical theocracy would have more support for gay rights than the USA does currently. This only applies the laypeople. The Catholic Church as an organization doesn't support equal rights for homosexuals, even if now they have the good sense to tap dance around actually saying as much. quote:Ironclad logic. It's never been proven false.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:06
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E-Tank posted:So you say you're a christian, but you deny one of the big things of the faith. Namely, hell exists and god will totally condemn you to it if you so much as glance at him the wrong way. Hell is not mentioned in the Nicene Creed, nor is it said to be a place of torment in the Apostle's Creed. These were specifically written to sum up the faith in a few sentences.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:06
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Who What Now posted:This only applies the laypeople. The Catholic Church as an organization doesn't support equal rights for homosexuals, even if now they have the good sense to tap dance around actually saying as much. Again, this is not suggesting that the hierarchy of the American Orthodox Churches take over the government, nor the Catholic Church, from anything that I can see. And I would like some proof that Steven Spielberg is a child molester.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:08
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Who What Now posted:This only applies the laypeople. The Catholic Church as an organization doesn't support equal rights for homosexuals, even if now they have the good sense to tap dance around actually saying as much. The Catholic Church as an institution cannot accept gay marriage until it reexamines its entire doctrine on sex and reproduction. As it stands gays have just as much right to enter into a childless marriage as a straight person does.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:09
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Effectronica posted:Hell is not mentioned in the Nicene Creed, nor is it said to be a place of torment in the Apostle's Creed. These were specifically written to sum up the faith in a few sentences. Smoking Crow posted:The Orthodox Church hasn't believed in a place called Hell since the 4th century. We believe that everyone goes to heaven, it's just that being in God's presence will hurt you because you aren't one with God. This may or may not be a temporary state, as evidenced by Gregory of Nyssa and Clement of Alexandria. I'm clearly debating against a different church. I'm just gonna bow out, but I'll again state that no, I do not want to be in a theocracy because it'd end up basically causing those who don't worship to be the go to people to blame for everything going wrong. Leading to oppression and eventually  It is still disconcerting how Smoking refuses to say what will and won't happen to gay people under this supposed new utopian form of government, but I'm stepping out for now.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:10
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Effectronica posted:First of all, I would appreciate it if you would respond to my post instead of engaging in this sort of moral cowardice. Second of all, this is vaguely racist against Slavs and I have to ask if you are now, or have ever been, a member of the American National Socialist Party. Thirdly, you fundamentally do not understand the structure of the Orthodox Church and I have to question why we should treat your obvious ignorance with any respect. Did you seriously just ask me if I'm an Nazi because I am opposed to the violent oppression of LGBT people?  Effectronica posted:Catholics, and probably Orthodox Christians too, are more likely than average to be pro-gay in the USA. The position outlined is one of religiously-oriented rule, not adopting the structure of the church into the government. Therefore, the proposed liturgical theocracy would have more support for gay rights than the USA does currently. So you're saying your idealized theocracy will not discriminate against sexual minorities the way it will discriminate against women? That's nice and all, but the OP also claims that a theocracy will be anti-war, which is a questionable claim given the historical record.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:10
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Does a theocracy have freedom of speech? Do people still get to voice their opinions if it's critical of god or the church? In conclusion, hail Satan.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:13
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VitalSigns posted:Did you seriously just ask me if I'm an Nazi because I am opposed to the violent oppression of LGBT people? No, I asked if you were a member of an organized antiSlavic organization given your hatred and contempt for Russians expressed in the idea that a German had to "force change down their throats". In addition, abortion would be legal in this same scenario because the majority of Catholics support broadly-available abortion and so do half of Orthodox Christians.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:13
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VitalSigns posted:Did you seriously just ask me if I'm an Nazi because I am opposed to the violent oppression of LGBT people? Pretty sure he didn't get the Catherine reference. quote:So you're saying your idealized theocracy will not discriminate against sexual minorities the way it will discriminate against women? Hell, the OP's claim really isn't anything more than "Wouldn't it be nice if everything was nice, and bad things didn't exist? Makes you think, man." Alexzandvar posted:Does a theocracy have freedom of speech? Do people still get to voice their opinions if it's critical of god or the church? Hail satan.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:14
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If the US constitution had actually been based on Christian principles and not on whatever would benefit the ruling elites it would have probably turned out to be a good country imo
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Jul 9, 2014 19:15
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I know I'm thinking of joining an organized antiSlavic organization now. Except for the Czechs, they're cool. E: could it be a Hussite theocracy. Jan Hus was rad. Political Whores fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 19:16
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Effectronica posted:Again, this is not suggesting that the hierarchy of the American Orthodox Churches take over the government, nor the Catholic Church, from anything that I can see. Do you have any idea what a Theocracy is? quote:And I would like some proof that Steven Spielberg is a child molester. Did he produce or does he like anime? If yes then he is a pedophile. Not all pedophiles are child molesters, though. Miltank posted:The Catholic Church as an institution cannot accept gay marriage until it reexamines its entire doctrine on sex and reproduction. As it stands gays have just as much right to enter into a childless marriage as a straight person does. If they can't marry who they love (I.E. Another person of the same gender) then that right is meaningless, much like your religion as a whole.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:18
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Who What Now posted:If they can't marry who they love (I.E. Another person of the same gender) then that right is meaningless, much like your religion as a whole. yeah ikr? Catholicism really need to fix its poo poo. Christianity is still right though.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:20
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Who What Now posted:Do you have any idea what a Theocracy is? Theocracy means rule by religious law. It does not say anything about the Church hierarchy serving as the government. This would make Sunni theocracies impossible otherwise. And good job with the accusations of public figures as pedophiles. Truly, a logical process free from error.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:21
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E-Tank posted:I do not want to be in a theocracy because it'd end up basically causing those who don't worship to be the go to people to blame for everything going wrong. Leading to oppression and eventually This is spot on. But Christians can say the exact same thing and then we can go onto say that be theocratic is against the spirit of Christianity, as it's certainly not the example of Jesus. Or we could say that the gospels were written by people who had just been utterly crushed by a Roman state built on a state religion, a theocracy (of a cult of emperor). And that the context that most of the apocalypses of the New Testament are written in, are of a Roman state/emperor cult doing pretty lovely things to people not participating in the theocracy. edit: Effectronica posted:Theocracy means rule by religious law. That's theonomy (God-law) not theocracy (God as head of state). Neither are good. Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 19:22
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BrandorKP posted:This is spot on. But Christians can say the exact same thing and then we can go onto say that be theocratic is against the spirit of Christianity, as it's certainly not the example of Jesus. Or we could say that the gospels were written by people who had just been utterly crushed by a Roman state built on a state religion, a theocracy (of a cult of emperor). And that the context that most of the apocalypses of the New Testament are written in, are of a Roman state/emperor cult doing pretty lovely things to people not participating in the theocracy. The Romans required people to follow the state religion. This is not the same thing at all, and the idea that theocratic rule always ends in the extermination/violent oppression of religious minorities ignores vast parts of Islamic history.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:24
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Effectronica posted:Theocracy means rule by religious law. It does not say anything about the Church hierarchy serving as the government. This would make Sunni theocracies impossible otherwise. We're not talking about Sunnis now are we? Even if the church hierarchy wouldn't be in positions by law, they would almost certainly find those positions in a weird coincidence (it wouldn't actually be a coincidence). quote:And good job with the accusations of public figures as pedophiles. Truly, a logical process free from error. I'm sorry that your cartoons of bug-eyes little girls showing their panties is targeted at and consumed by pedophiles. Maybe like something that isn't so awful?
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Jul 9, 2014 19:25
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