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Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


So the single player went up today. And unless I'm missing something mission 1 is a little unplayable.

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Khisanth Magus
Mar 31, 2011

Vae Victus

Len posted:

So the single player went up today. And unless I'm missing something mission 1 is a little unplayable.



Looks more like mission 3 to me, and you probably just needed to reposition the camera with the middle mouse button.

Overall I'm not entirely sure how happy I am with the game at this time. My biggest problem with playing the single player campaign is that the AI is still pretty piss poor, the allied AI being the worst but even the enemy AI is very poor. There are still lots of camera issues. Performance is better than it was but still overall rather poor. The gameplay itself is mostly fine, but it does have some issues.

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Khisanth Magus posted:

Looks more like mission 3 to me, and you probably just needed to reposition the camera with the middle mouse button.

Overall I'm not entirely sure how happy I am with the game at this time. My biggest problem with playing the single player campaign is that the AI is still pretty piss poor, the allied AI being the worst but even the enemy AI is very poor. There are still lots of camera issues. Performance is better than it was but still overall rather poor. The gameplay itself is mostly fine, but it does have some issues.

It was the first level after the tutorial. I loaded it up last night and the camera was positioned above the ground level so I can actually play it now.

Brainbread
Apr 7, 2008

I was hoping that squads would have been made into squads by the time of release :/

Excelsiortothemax
Sep 9, 2006
I like the single player but the camera is not hitching whenever the AI moves. Also my Trenchers can just stand out in the open and not worry about getting shot half the time since all of Khador seems to forget that they also have blunderbusses.

I still really enjoy the game, especially now with all the effects put in, just some patching stuff that needs to be worked out.

Khisanth Magus
Mar 31, 2011

Vae Victus

Brainbread posted:

I was hoping that squads would have been made into squads by the time of release :/

It was a stated design decision from when before the kickstarter that they would all be treated as solos so not really sure where you got this hope.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"
I know why the design decision happened, but it feels like the game takes way too long for what it is. The game is a lot grindier and everything takes longer than it should because you have to watch animations of everything whereas on the tabletop you just move models and roll dice. If they had units like in the TT the game times would be absolutely intolerable.

rantmo
Jul 30, 2003

A smile better suits a hero



I just wish the camera would wheel around instead of pivot in place, the fact that the AI is so stupid I could deal with except for the fact that the camera is my chef enemy.

Excelsiortothemax
Sep 9, 2006
One option I do wish they allow (if it isn't in there already) is to turn off combat animations. While it is cool to see them move and hit stuff it just makes the game go one for that much longer.

I am very much looking forward to the army painter and control zones being added.

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"
Yeah, there is no reason why this should take longer to play than a tabletop game, you should be able to just click and drag your mans around inside the pre approved movement radius and put them in position and then just hit the attack button or whatever, or charge for a squad etc. Pretty bad UI overall I'd say. I hope further patching makes this into a decent game, but the decision to use a square movement grid instead of hexes at the very least is pretty dumb imo. This was the one game I decided to kickstart because hell yes I can play WM on my computer! Except uhhh it's somehow more tedious and less fun than tabletop...

Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011

Yeah I'm feeling pretty burned by my early access purchase on this. It's basically a turd.

Khisanth Magus
Mar 31, 2011

Vae Victus

Washout posted:

Yeah, there is no reason why this should take longer to play than a tabletop game, you should be able to just click and drag your mans around inside the pre approved movement radius and put them in position and then just hit the attack button or whatever, or charge for a squad etc. Pretty bad UI overall I'd say. I hope further patching makes this into a decent game, but the decision to use a square movement grid instead of hexes at the very least is pretty dumb imo. This was the one game I decided to kickstart because hell yes I can play WM on my computer! Except uhhh it's somehow more tedious and less fun than tabletop...

Sounds like you just want to play vassal, or an improved version that does all the rolling for you. In which case, go ahead and play vassal, it is even free!

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


I agree with the above posters. The interface just seems clunky. With luck it'll sort itself out and get less so before launch but right now I just went back to xcom.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Washout posted:

Yeah, there is no reason why this should take longer to play than a tabletop game, you should be able to just click and drag your mans around inside the pre approved movement radius and put them in position and then just hit the attack button or whatever, or charge for a squad etc. Pretty bad UI overall I'd say. I hope further patching makes this into a decent game, but the decision to use a square movement grid instead of hexes at the very least is pretty dumb imo. This was the one game I decided to kickstart because hell yes I can play WM on my computer! Except uhhh it's somehow more tedious and less fun than tabletop...

It's not quite that simple because when you move a guy on the tabletop you can just place him and turn him however you want. For most situations it goes quick, and when we need to be precise we can be precise. In Tactics, not only are we being precise all the time, we're getting animations and such. It's a significant interface challenge, and even if you made a tabletop-accurate game, you'd still lose things(pre-measuring being the norm would be one).

That all being said, I think the current interface woes are a fine illustration of why XCOM did not let you use the 20+ men that the original did.

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"

Panzeh posted:

It's not quite that simple because when you move a guy on the tabletop you can just place him and turn him however you want. For most situations it goes quick, and when we need to be precise we can be precise. In Tactics, not only are we being precise all the time, we're getting animations and such. It's a significant interface challenge, and even if you made a tabletop-accurate game, you'd still lose things(pre-measuring being the norm would be one).

That all being said, I think the current interface woes are a fine illustration of why XCOM did not let you use the 20+ men that the original did.

Pre-Measuring is legal in most situations anyway. But you are very right, I just was hoping for something that could replace my desire for something like bloodbowl. A good skirmish system and interface that was fun to play, but somehow the UI is just infuriating. I could not imagine trying to play something like a Terminus army with this UI.

MiltonSlavemasta
Feb 12, 2009

And the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man on the moon
"When you coming home, dad?"
"I don't know when
We'll get together then son you know we'll have a good time then."
I can maybe deal with the AI, but the UI and especially the camera are really turning me off from getting into the game. I tried to play the campaign and I spent more time fighting the camera than my opponents.

xiw
Sep 25, 2011

i wake up at night
night action madness nightmares
maybe i am scum

Cpig Haiku contest 2020 winner
* If you put up an objective 'intercept the mysterious cygnarian' mid-mission, gently caress you if you meant that I was supposed to save him. I set up an ambush and he promptly got killed halfway across the map.

* The music stuttering each time the AI moves sucks. Why move the camera back to where I happened to leave it as each enemy finishes moving?

* Please let me use the minimap during allocation, I kind of need to make decisions about where the enemy is, especially on turn 1.

* Please let me click on the minimap to move my camera

Otherwise I'm quite enjoying the SP

xiw
Sep 25, 2011

i wake up at night
night action madness nightmares
maybe i am scum

Cpig Haiku contest 2020 winner
Okay it just crashed at the start of the train mission when Strakhov ran off. Boo.

Digital_Jesus
Feb 10, 2011

Yeah I fleeced myself $40 on this. Oh well.

Azran
Sep 3, 2012

And what should one do to be remembered?
This game is 30% off on Steam right now.

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

I bought this with addons on Kickstarter and it's a pile of poo poo, please don't spend your money on it. :(

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"
I bought it on Kickstarter too, it looked good in beta, because it was well, beta. But then it was like they said "Good enough!!" and stopped developing the game and just finished the art assets and rules. So for a release game, yeah it's terrible. Never backing anything on kickstarter ever again, if a game is good enough to get made it will get made despite kickstarter funding.

I had such high hopes, all it needs is a switch to hex movement and a better camera but they just could not make the jump to it actually being a good game, it honestly looks like either they gave up on it halfway through, or they are just a terrible development house. And after looking at the current state of the game my bet would be they are a terrible development house.

I've heard that Mordheim is actually looking pretty good, so pinning my new hopes on that instead. I don't think White Moon is going to do the work required to turn this game into something playable.

Washout fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Dec 21, 2014

Khisanth Magus
Mar 31, 2011

Vae Victus

Washout posted:

I bought it on Kickstarter too, it looked good in beta, because it was well, beta. But then it was like they said "Good enough!!" and stopped developing the game and just finished the art assets and rules. So for a release game, yeah it's terrible. Never backing anything on kickstarter ever again, if a game is good enough to get made it will get made despite kickstarter funding.

I had such high hopes, all it needs is a switch to hex movement and a better camera but they just could not make the jump to it actually being a good game, it honestly looks like either they gave up on it halfway through, or they are just a terrible development house. And after looking at the current state of the game my bet would be they are a terrible development house.

I've heard that Mordheim is actually looking pretty good, so pinning my new hopes on that instead. I don't think White Moon is going to do the work required to turn this game into something playable.

Ummm, not sure where you got the "stopped development" thing. They are still actively working on the game despite calling what is out there the release version.

It has also been heavily implied by the WMD people(who have been perhaps the most open developers with their community of any game dev studio I've ever seen) that the decision to "release" the game was not theirs.

Khisanth Magus fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Dec 22, 2014

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"

Khisanth Magus posted:

Ummm, not sure where you got the "stopped development" thing. They are still actively working on the game despite calling what is out there the release version.

It has also been heavily implied by the WMD people(who have been perhaps the most open developers with their community of any game dev studio I've ever seen) that the decision to "release" the game was not theirs.

I don't know what you are trying to say, I said from a player perspective it looks like the UI, camera control, and playability were frozen and haven't been changed to any appreciable degree since the first single player mission release. They are still working on art assets and rules, as I suppose they are obligated to, but the gameplay is just bad. And now that they are this far along with the terrible design choices they made, there is very little chance of those being changed or fixed in a way that will make the game playable.

If you have heard or seen anything about them changing or fixing the interface or other core mechanics I'd love to hear about it, this was probably my most anticipated video game release ever, because I'm a huge warmachine fanboy and was very much looking forward to this game as a way to be able to continue my hobby now that I've moved to hawaii, the land of no game stores.

I just tried to play it again, and yeah, no work has been done to the UI or Control scheme in forever. Units don't always face the right direction, the camera is clunky as hell (probably because buildings are too tall) you can't move several units at once, even executing a simple attack takes like 5 clicks etc etc. I'd go so far as to say that using some poo poo virtual tabletop software and manually rolling your own dice probably takes about the same amount of time to play a game as this does.

Edit: also I watched some mordenheim lets play streaming stuff and they fell into the same trap, that game also looks like a clunky unplayable mess. Cmon guys, click and drag unit control is not that hard, not this stupid psuedo first person unplayable poo poo trying to shoehorn a turn based game into looking like a FPS for some godawful reason. When Cryptic Software manages to make a better more functional UI than your game, you know you are doing things the wrong way.

Washout fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Dec 23, 2014

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Did they ever improve the UI on the game to make it more playable?

Washout
Jun 27, 2003

"Your toy soldiers are not pigmented to my scrupulous standards. As a result, you are not worthy of my time. Good day sir"

Len posted:

Did they ever improve the UI on the game to make it more playable?

No, it's functionally exactly the same as the very first release.

Dreadwroth
Dec 12, 2009

by R. Guyovich
You're pretty much better off just playing the TT Warmachine, this game is hot trash. I grabbed this thinking it would be a fun alternative to the minis game, and it's been an unoptimized mess for at least a year. XCOM is so much bettter and it's not early access! poo poo, Blood Bowl is better and that should say something about this crap.

Khisanth Magus
Mar 31, 2011

Vae Victus

Dreadwroth posted:

You're pretty much better off just playing the TT Warmachine, this game is hot trash. I grabbed this thinking it would be a fun alternative to the minis game, and it's been an unoptimized mess for at least a year. XCOM is so much bettter and it's not early access! poo poo, Blood Bowl is better and that should say something about this crap.

Cyanide had a game much simpler to make by orders of magnitude, had over twice the development time that WMD has had, and has had 6 years now to polish it, and it still has game breaking bugs like your players disappearing if you select them while your opponent is deploying or occasionally having 12 players on the pitch.

X-com was made by a AAA developer with a much bigger budget and way bigger team and much longer development time frame.

I won't deny this game has issues, but it has made huge strides in the relatively short development time that a very small team has had. It is unfortunate that PP forced them to take it out of early access, games have been in there a lot longer than this was.

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Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Khisanth Magus posted:

Cyanide had a game much simpler to make by orders of magnitude, had over twice the development time that WMD has had, and has had 6 years now to polish it, and it still has game breaking bugs like your players disappearing if you select them while your opponent is deploying or occasionally having 12 players on the pitch.

X-com was made by a AAA developer with a much bigger budget and way bigger team and much longer development time frame.

I won't deny this game has issues, but it has made huge strides in the relatively short development time that a very small team has had. It is unfortunate that PP forced them to take it out of early access, games have been in there a lot longer than this was.

Tactics is kinda weird. It has depth in some interesting ways that the TT game does not(having all infantry have hitpoints actually makes parts of their statline more interesting and warjacks more viable). Combined Ranged Attack is really good in tactics but not so much in tabletop.

On the other hand, the interface and game flow is not really designed with a computer game in mind. Keeping the activations from the tabletop slows things down considerably, and having all the options for some models makes the UI difficult to make. In X-com, every interaction is fairly simple, but it's designed so it feels that way. The UI design in tactics makes complex interactions feel obtuse. Also, having 20+ dudes to control necessitates even less UI overhead and more simplicity than X-com's 4-6, but they didn't do that.

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