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Aeble posted:My dad keeps talking about it. It's all "you have to disentangle yourself from your ego" and "god is the universe". He also showed me The Secret and is way, way into all that craziness. I've had some talks with him, but I really don't see how to get someone out of it if they don't want to. I think it's pretty sad. Some people just want to believe. I have a former friend who fell into The Secret whole-heartedly after her project of becoming a Buddhist failed to produce an SUV despite numerous weeks doing some-odd chant she kept describing. In fact, as far as I know she had a history stretching from early adulthood of trying out religions to see which ones would produce miracles on demand. I found her fascination with The Secret particularly interesting because everything she said about the Law of Attraction and how she was going to think her way to wealth reminded me of early 20th century Hermetics. It's like Byrne took the basic tenents of Hermetic Philosophy as understood by the English re-popularization of it -- literal belief in the employment of magical rituals -- and washed it of any historical and religious interest, leaving just an insane metaphysics. For some reason, she wasn't thrilled when I compared her attempts to wish herself an SUV to practicing magic. v  v
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Sep 9, 2014 23:33
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red19fire posted:I like my coffee preparation to take a half an hour. what the gently caress how many of these are there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hqUCZFQMs
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Sep 9, 2014 23:54
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Absolute Lithops posted:I have no idea how I wound up on his site site but the "Bulletproof Exec" is loving amazing. He sells "sleep induction" mats for $50 and says the true secret to success is scamming your doctor for stimulants meant for narcoleptics. There's a lot of alpha male posturing too. I used to work for a fitness store that was circling the drain, and in desperation they started trying to sell all this kind of crap. I remember when those vibrating plates came out, they said they had scientific proof that doing a pushup/squat/whatever on one is like doing 100, because of the vibrations! But the actual wording of the study was "test subjects could do more pushups, but not a statistically significant amount." 
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Sep 10, 2014 00:50
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Axeman Jim posted:I also want to make clear that there are some genuinely helpful life lessons that I got out of this and I would like to share those where I can. This is said about every religion, cult, belief system, philosophy, political stance, everything that has ever gained traction with followers and adherents. If it didn't have at least some good ideas it would never have attracted an audience.
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Sep 15, 2014 04:40
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Conskill posted:Some people just want to believe. I have a former friend who fell into The Secret whole-heartedly after her project of becoming a Buddhist failed to produce an SUV despite numerous weeks doing some-odd chant she kept describing. In fact, as far as I know she had a history stretching from early adulthood of trying out religions to see which ones would produce miracles on demand. I'm wondering how anyone could read buddhist literature and come to the conclusion that it encourages sitting around lusting for possessions.
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Sep 16, 2014 18:35
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vintagepurple posted:I'm wondering how anyone could read buddhist literature and come to the conclusion that it encourages sitting around lusting for possessions. The answer, as with the entire "Karma Queen" demographic, is that nobody actually reads it. It's just a label to be applied to product that ensures popularity among a subset of people.
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Sep 17, 2014 04:38
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Wow, thought this thread had died and stopped following it. To answer one specific question versus the working on the business rather than making money thing, I think that comes down to being one of the genuinely good pieces of advice in amongst the BS. If you want to make serious money doing something, especially if you're self-employed, you do have to spend some time honing your skills, getting training, or generally setting up the kind of infrastructure that lets you charge more. So I never went and busked on a street corner, not because that violated the mystic hoodoo, but because in the long run that time could have been better invested in going towards what I really wanted, and things that I could make more money doing. That said, there are a lot of people who get addicted to training or research about a profession but never actually get around to making any money. That's not limited to New Thought victims though, by any means. My ex quit her job to train as a masseuse. Over the next three years she got three different qualifications, set up a website, wrote a blog, joined networking groups, posted on forums about massage, got stationery ordered and social media accounts set up. She delivered a grand total of THREE massages for money over that time. In her case it was because she was scared of actually having to go out and ask people for money, maybe she didn't want to do it as much as she thought, but those kinds of things look like busy work so you can convince yourself you're getting somewhere towards those goals. All those things are probably necessary if you're doing massage, but, also, you may have to actually massage someone at some point. (The fact that I paid her rent and tuition over that time is one of the reasons we are no longer together).
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Sep 17, 2014 23:50
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Busking on the street (on the south bank) and the tube really helped me out as far as my music career went, because it opened up a bunch of opportunities, including regular gigs, a bit of movie work, and took me to Paris a couple times, as well as paying to live, rent rehearsal space and all that stuff. Of course, it helped that I wasn't making electronic music. What kind of things were you encouraged to focus on, or was that more just left to you to decide? IrvingWashington fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Sep 22, 2014 |
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Sep 22, 2014 03:09
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I'm planning on doing some research on 'new-thought' and all that. The context I'm looking at is how believers react or handle emergencies or crises. What I'm really hoping to figure out is 'who' is buying into the philosophy, 'how many' people are believers and lastly 'how' they prepare (if at all) for problems and how they react when things inevitably happen. Are there are any big movements out there besides the Secret? I know it's the most popular but I'm wondering if there's anybody else out there that's got a large enough following (is bulletproof exec just a fringe thing or is it really popular?) Also are there any main forums for this? I have an interest in possibly contacting these people but it'd be interesting to see what 'real' people think.
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Oct 24, 2014 21:39
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Testikles posted:I'm planning on doing some research on 'new-thought' and all that. The context I'm looking at is how believers react or handle emergencies or crises. What I'm really hoping to figure out is 'who' is buying into the philosophy, 'how many' people are believers and lastly 'how' they prepare (if at all) for problems and how they react when things inevitably happen. Are there are any big movements out there besides the Secret? I know it's the most popular but I'm wondering if there's anybody else out there that's got a large enough following (is bulletproof exec just a fringe thing or is it really popular?) Also are there any main forums for this? I have an interest in possibly contacting these people but it'd be interesting to see what 'real' people think. The pseudoscience thread in SAL is probably your best bet. As for other scams similar to The Secret, there are definitely lots of them - I don't really know what kind of thing you're looking for. Things that come to mind, in decreasing order of similarity-to-The-Secret, are Deepak Chopra, certain schools of thought about yoga/meditation, various religions, and various alternative medicine practices.
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Oct 25, 2014 00:57
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My ex was very much into A Course In Miracles, I'd check that out too.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:14
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The Chaser did a piece on the Secret back when it was first becoming popular: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvl8m0il2Oc
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Oct 26, 2014 08:45
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What do the movements have to say about people who obsessively thinks and believes negative things should happen to ones self? I'm clearly sending out those negative waves to the universe but the universe hasn't responded by having me murdered, arrested, etc. In fact even though I believe that I am 100% a bad person people treat me very well.
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Oct 27, 2014 12:53
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Axeman, have you heard of the Landmark program or know anyone who's done it? What do you think of it? I've done it and the "Advanced" course and a months-long seminar program on commitment. I was into it, but funnily enough I'm most certainly going to stop in the "self-expression and leadership program" that I'm in now (I'm supposed to attend a session tonight actually.) I've thought this stuff was useful and some of it is, but holy crap is a lot of it getting your friends to come to intro sessions and introducing people to it. The people programming these programs have literally had to say "Okay, we need to spend x percentage of time on promotion" because that's what happens in every session. I think they're benevolent and really believe in making a better world, but they're ultimately a business so there's a tricky balance there. They brag about not advertising and not being a cult because they return everyone to their families, which is true, but after reading through this thread, I can see that there's some cult-like behaviour and groupthinking. I can see that some people there have drunk the kool-aid as well. They are the ones that essentially work in the office for free and volunteer at forums all the time. I had little guidance in my life for many years (and most of my life actually) and Landmark was invaluable to get me along the way back to where I am now (this was only six months ago). It's like I missed the basics in life and I got those filled in. A lot of the communication seems to be too planned out and a lot of busy work though, like you were talking about with your masseuse ex-girlfriend. Just go out there and do it, have fun and make mistakes and you'll get there. Don't be negative on yourself all the time. Be "critical" and aware of your actions when you need to be, like during practice if you're training to be a better musician, for example. This is no joke, I just watched the movie "Big" with Tom Hanks and something clicked in my head that "Oh, this is it." gently caress everything else. That's the right mindset to have an enjoyable life. I do value practice and work. It's not all just acting like a kid all the time, but it's to make everything fun and a game, but it doesn't mean you have to be jumping around and smiling in everyone's face all the time. Landmark didn't mention anything about fun at all. They emphasize a lot on cognition and how to think. Like everything else in life, the way is simpler than I had thought, but it takes work and dedication to get there. Dudebro fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 19:09
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TO UNDERAGE GYMNASTS
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Chadzok posted:To add to the topic: Landmark Forums. Any connection, experiences? The converts seem particularly aggressive in their recruitment attempts, and it seems to be similar sort of stuff. The 'philosophy' seems fairly vague and impenetrable to outsiders though so I never really have a good handle on what they were going on about except that they sounded like creepy zombie-people. My roommate's ex boyfriend was very heavily into Landmark forums right before she ended the relationship. I remember that he was initially really fun to talk to but he would sometimes go off on word salad about attracting love and positive energy. My roommate actually survived a sexual trauma as a young child and started talking to a therapist about it in her late twenties. One of the issues leading to their break up was his insistence on constant positivity, on the idea that we deserve everything that happens to us, etc.  I was relieved when she left him because she honestly seemed much more clear headed and less constantly stressed.
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Oct 28, 2014 18:34
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When I looked up people's experiences with Landmark some of the psychological tactics described rose some red flags in my mind: - When going to the initial 3-day seminar, many reported that during the first two days they were worn down psychologically. Participants claim to have been encouraged to think about all the bad things that happened in their lives and recount these in front of the group. There is a highly monitored environment where there are a group of minders to watch your every move, discourage you moving freely or using the bathroom outside of breaks. All this coupled with the long hours and charismatic speakers seems to be a deliberate attempt to make people feel like there is something missing in their lives or have a negative outlook of their past. -The third day seems to be about taking that person and offering them the solution, which is of course offered by Landmark in the form of more expensive seminars and materials. They seem to use heavy use of testimonials from others that have been through the program, and they are encouraged to spread the word of Landmark to their friends to recruit them. To me this two stage conversion process reminds me of every cult ever and is designed to create dependency on the company. Big red flag. Much of the workforce are volunteers in a for profit company? Red flag. Maybe there is some genuinely good advice in some of the seminars, but you can get information about communication/conflict resolution or whatever by books on the subject. Or if you want to address childhood traumas there are professional mental counsellors who are actually qualified to do that, and they're probably cheaper than the seminars. Note that none of that involves any of the cultist things I've heard about Landmark.
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Oct 28, 2014 22:12
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pippy posted:When I looked up people's experiences with Landmark some of the psychological tactics described rose some red flags in my mind: Regarding the initial 3-day seminar, they don't restrict leaving the room or shame you for it, at least for me. I didn't have to go much anyway. Everyone's sitting for like 10+ hours a day. It's ridiculous. I was told to sit back down after I stood in the back for a few minutes to stretch. There are over 100 people in the seminar and only 5-10 really speak more than once. The forum leader picked out a few participants many times over the course of the weekend, but these people volunteered to speak about their life experiences initially. Without these kind of participants, I would say the weekend would have been ineffective, because their stories helped me personally for sure. I definitely have a better relationship with my parents now, for example. A lot of what that initial weekend tries to drill home is that life is empty and meaningless, which isn't inherently a negative thing. We just make meaning of everything as human beings. So we have the power to decide our own destiny and fate, etc... which is what subsequent Landmark courses expand on. But like I said, they didn't make anything enjoyable or fun and I'm not even sure they used that word once. That's why I'm a bit turned off now. But it could just be me and my circumstances that make me feel this way. I've made more progress in terms of my own happiness by healing my body by practising Yoga. They don't talk about the physical body at all in Landmark. It's all emphasis on ontology, ways of thinking and being, etc... So basically, I got a lot of basics to happiness that seemed to have slipped me during my own development, but beyond this, the courses seem to be a lot more for achieving specific goals. They have their own words for a lot of things too, which is in itself off-putting and robotic now that I've taken a step back. "Enrollment" is one of their big words, but it doesn't mean recruiting people. I would say the initial weekend is worth it for most people, but beyond that, I don't know. Like for me I just feel the need to explore life a bit more and take a step back from this stuff. They really try to get as much people as they can by cramming a lot in to one weekend. I'm writing a lot trying to explain something that seems to be inexplicable. Like I said previously, the answer is always so simple and right now the landmark programs seem to just be complicating things for me. Dudebro fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 18:36
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Reading about all this nonsense is making me want to start a cult. I could do way better than these people. Jk the world has enough cults. People want something real, but would they recognize that when they saw it or would they pass it by..and does anyone even have anything real to communicate?
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Oct 29, 2014 19:01
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Dudebro posted:Regarding the initial 3-day seminar, they don't restrict leaving the room or shame you for it, at least for me. I didn't have to go much anyway. Everyone's sitting for like 10+ hours a day. It's ridiculous. I was told to sit back down after I stood in the back for a few minutes to stretch. so what is Enrollment then
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Oct 30, 2014 11:51
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Enrolment is their way of saying to share a possibility with somebody such that they are touched, moved, and inspired (they literally use those three words together a lot) by that possibility or some such. Now that I think about it, it's saying don't be a  when talking to someone and don't be dead inside as well. Think of Tom Cruise, some people find him off-putting because he's so high energy and "in your face", but goddamn is he "enrolling" when he talks about anything. And people who say they've met Cruise personally say he's genuinely one of the nicest guys they know, so there's that too.But if someone isn't interested in what you have to say, then they won't be interested. Be a good salesman at life I guess? I believe in experiencing different sides and shades of life. Landmark represents a certain side of things and a way of thinking. All the leaders and people who excel aren't exactly slobs. They seem to be in good or decent shape and know how to manage their lives. I believe that if you can move in your body well then you've already done the hard part. You can't make up for lost energy and enthusiasm from being out of shape by mentally powering your way through it. To me that can be off-putting and creepy and ineffective. Just go out and "practise" socializing without overanalyzing enrollment and how to speak to people in a certain way. It's not very organic. If you're really behind in this aspect of life then the first Landmark seminar would be beneficial. For example, look at what someone I know said about a recent enrolment experience they had. They were reporting to our group leader: I got a whole lot out of last night it's hard to pick one thing but I guess the one that is sticking with me is the idea of practising talking about my project with people. After the seminar I had a wonderful conversation and it came clear that the key first step to anything is really clearly communicating my project effectively so that the person I'm talking to is inspired and moved by the possibility. Then from there any conversation is possible and no matter the outcome of the conversation at least they are left with a sense of completeness from the conversation. I had a talk this morning around having someone enrolled in my project and they declined to be enrolled but they offered all sorts of suggestions on people to talk to for my project so in actuality they helped me immensely in a way I wasn't expecting and it was because they were moved by the idea of the project. Even if they can't be involved directly they are contributing. I think when this person says declined to be enrolled, they meant declined to participate directly in the project. To me, that's a whole lot of words to describe something really simple, that they talked to someone and got some leads, but microanalyzing the details for some reason. I still don't really get what enrollment is or what they're trying to get across. I think the concept got too complex in my head because they're trying to spell out how to have good conversations with people, which is like telling someone how to ride a bike. We're doing activities like filling out cards about who we enrolled the past week and patting ourselves on the back that way. That's the other thing, I don't get an explanation for why or how we're doing things, just that we're supposed to follow the leader. And yes, she is very charismatic.
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Oct 30, 2014 18:00
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Dudebro posted:Enrolment is their way of saying to share a possibility with somebody such that they are touched, moved, and inspired (they literally use those three words together a lot) by that possibility or some such. Now that I think about it, it's saying don't be a Thank you for answering my question
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Oct 30, 2014 20:13
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Arnold of Soissons posted:Thank you for answering my question I tip my hat to you, sir.
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Oct 30, 2014 20:29
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jesus gently caress wall of text i'm (not) sorryChadzok posted:To add to the topic: Landmark Forums. Any connection, experiences? The converts seem particularly aggressive in their recruitment attempts, and it seems to be similar sort of stuff. The 'philosophy' seems fairly vague and impenetrable to outsiders though so I never really have a good handle on what they were going on about except that they sounded like creepy zombie-people. Yep, I have some experience. I did the Landmark Forum about two years ago, did the Advanced course straight after that, the Self Expression and Leadership Program after that, and a few other courses. I was around for about a year in total, and haven't done any courses or made any contact for the last year. I found it incredibly beneficial, but I had undiagnosed severe anxiety/social anxiety which tended to lead to depressive episodes. This would really gently caress me up. My own experience after the Forum and during the year I did courses was fantastic periods until I'd get stopped in my tracks by anxiety, and if I didn't overcome the anxiety I'd get depressed and completely fall apart. Eventually I'd pick myself back up again and continue participating at landmark. For a while I thought I was bipolar from going from having such good times to bad times seemingly at the drop of a hat. For the love of god if you're going to do a landmark course read and listen to the loving "don't do this if you have x or have had x condition in the last 12 months" medical warnings. The warnings are made by psychiatrists who've observed forums. I didn't listen because my girl friend at the time asked me to do it and assured me I'd be fine. She'd only done the forum cause she was checking it out to see if it was safe for me. The really good part is that I went from being completely socially awkward, shy as a mouse, having no confidence, fat shut in to a supremely confident, adventurous, busy as hell rear end-kicker. I learned poo poo loads about myself and was able to quickly identify areas of my life where I wasn't happy despite being ok with the status quo and make changes swiftly. The really bad part was I was butting up against my undiagnosed anxieties. Eventually I'd fall over hard, pick myself up, repeat until I got to the point where I couldn't pick myself back up. I was over the top because I was trying to make up for years of being depressed/doing nothing. I stopped participating at landmark about a year ago after my psychologist, who didn't know anything about it, said it might interfere with the CBT they wanted to do. The last year has been pretty poo poo for me, I keep going through cycles of anxiety and depression and haven't had much success with treatment except recently getting prescribed anti-anxiety meds which work.  I put on a lot of the weight that I lost too.  If I had a do over, I'd go a psychologist/psychiatrist to get treated for anxiety/depression and then I'd do the forum when I was stable. If I had a do over post-Forum, I'd be less of a zealous prick when asking my friends to do it. I was just really excited from what I got out of it and wanted them to have that as well. Aristotle Animes posted:I have a friend from way back who is now homeless doing work trade to attend landmark seminars. He babbles at me constantly about choices to view circumstances in certain ways and mastering his fear by realizing the choices he has and owning his story or somesuch poo poo. It's dissonance, I'm pissed about his circumstances and I think he should be pissed and justifiably so he natters about positivity and his narrative being what he makes of it. He's pushing 55, diabetic and living in his car. He will probably die on the street. I'm frustrated because all he ever talks about is his landmark crap... there's never a genuine conversation to be had with him with his proselytizing. It's like talking to a Jesus freak which makes sense because he was a Jehovah's Witness until they ran him out for being gay. As if having a friend struggling on the edge of society wasn't frustrating enough, there's no getting through to him about the soul robbing fantasy he battle's his personal demons with. jfc I'd cry and beat the crap out of him. Call the landmark centre, ask to speak to the centre manager and tell them your concerns for your friend. They could speak to him about things like taking care of yourself being far, far, more important than attending a seminar. Seriously jfc.
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Nov 1, 2014 10:39
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I just finished a group awareness training yesterday. Man it was a loving cult. There were certainly a lot of good, emotionally healthy ideas at first, but there were was so much pressure to conform and a lot of core philosophies that I just couldn't agree with. But the worst part was the cultists who believed that these trainings are the right choice for everyone. They kept pressuring you to go further and further and register for the next level workshop. And the schedule of the trainings (12+ hour days) is exhausting and dehumanizing. I can't deny I got a lot out of the experience. But ethically these things are terrible. They're basically a for-profit business doing unregulated reckless psychological work and putting tremendous amount of pressure on people to conform. gently caress these people.
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