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FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

Please discuss chats, cats, hats, and the preposition "at" in this thread. Please chat about a cat at a hat rack.

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FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

shas
Jul 27, 2011

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

That's one cool cat. I bet he plays a mean sax.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


plz tong this catte

Gau
Nov 18, 2003

I don't think you understand, Gau.

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

Captain Foo posted:

plz tong this catte
I don't know whose cat that is, I found it on imgur.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Captain Foo posted:

plz tong this catte

is that a 'POS thing

Moola
Aug 16, 2006
what about @s can we talk about @s????

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT
I like games and games accessories.

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.
So I’ve got a terminology issue with SBBQ. I’ve got a mechanical thing that I’ve called “Flaws”. Quite simply, they allow players to fail on their own terms, determining the time and way they fail, and they give players an action point for doing so. Think self-compels in FATE. They can also be roleplaying cues. So they can include things like “Fresh Off the Shuttle” or “Slow runner” or “Hunted by the CIA” or a bajillion other things.

Now I’m making some pre-gen characters for the preview I’ll be posting and I want one of them to be deaf. Being deaf is certainly the sort of thing that mechanically speaking could fit in that space – the player can determine when their character’s deafness is the source of a challenge for them.

But I can’t write “Flaw: Deaf” on a character sheet! That’s ablist and insensitive, to say the least! I think Deaf makes a great “Flaw” (as in, it fits with the intent of the mechanics) but is definitely not a personal flaw. Making it a “Flaw” mechanically puts it explicitly in the player’s hands and allows them to earn Action Points while using it. Significantly, it takes it OUT of the GM’s hands. I would like to be able to do this, but the language is an obstacle.

So then I’ve got four possible solutions:
1) Change the word “Flaw” to something else across the entire game. I’m willing to do this, but I need to find a word that encompasses all the right things without being overbroad while still being evocative.
2) Simply don’t put Deaf (or any other similar thing) in that slot. Write that the character is deaf in the description and leave the rest up to roleplay.
3) Maybe make the “Flaw” something more specific, such as that the character is unwilling to speak (there are many reasons why deaf people may be unwilling to speak even if they are able). Would “Flaw: Unwilling to speak” be insensitive?
4) Put “Flaw: Deaf” but have a parenthetical explaining that deafness is not a personal flaw at all.

And I’d like to say that I really don’t like #4. It seems like too much of a cop-out and I would bet it would still be offensive. And I think #3 would be improved by having better terminology too.

So basically I’m looking for input from deaf people first if there are any who post here. Second, from anybody with any sort of disability or challenge where it would also be insensitive to call it a Flaw. Third, from anybody else who has some experience or knowledge dealing with these issues.

This is important to me and I want to get it right before I publish.


Edit: to make this about a CAT, here's a cat who knows how to sign "food": http://imgur.com/HeZtZcS

Jimbozig fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jul 20, 2014

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT
Flaw = Complication, Trouble, Setback.
Maybe focus on it as something that gets in your way that you must deal with rather than as something wrong with you?

Alternately, maybe don't use stuff like Deaf in any kind of mechanical sense, and instead leave that in the realm of things a player can choose to have for their character. You don't have a flaw for only having one eye, or missing a limb do you?

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Error 404 posted:

Flaw = Complication, Trouble, Setback.
Maybe focus on it as something that gets in your way that you must deal with rather than as something wrong with you?

Alternately, maybe don't use stuff like Deaf in any kind of mechanical sense, and instead leave that in the realm of things a player can choose to have for their character. You don't have a flaw for only having one eye, or missing a limb do you?

I don't have a list of flaws at all. They are chosen by the player. I'm just making a pre-gen.

Trouble... Would "Trouble: Deaf" still be offensive? I think it might, based on my experiences with deaf people (I've been learning ASL for a few years now).

Essentially, I'm looking for a short punchy word that encapsulates the idea of "a source of complications"

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Jimbozig posted:

I don't have a list of flaws at all. They are chosen by the player. I'm just making a pre-gen.

Trouble... Would "Trouble: Deaf" still be offensive? I think it might, based on my experiences with deaf people (I've been learning ASL for a few years now).

Essentially, I'm looking for a short punchy word that encapsulates the idea of "a source of complications"

In that case, I think Setback might be a good option for you.

Gau
Nov 18, 2003

I don't think you understand, Gau.
Complication is good because it makes it clear that you are calling the trait out because it will occasionally make things more difficult in the plot, instead of "this thing makes you flawed." This is why FATE uses Trouble - it's a thing that will get you in poo poo from time to time.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Arivia posted:

is that a 'POS thing

yes


it's hilarious

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Captain Foo posted:

yes


it's hilarious

I'm gonna tong you foo

DocBubonic
Mar 11, 2003

Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur in illis

Jimbozig posted:

I don't have a list of flaws at all. They are chosen by the player. I'm just making a pre-gen.

Trouble... Would "Trouble: Deaf" still be offensive? I think it might, based on my experiences with deaf people (I've been learning ASL for a few years now).

Essentially, I'm looking for a short punchy word that encapsulates the idea of "a source of complications"

What reason do you have for using "Deaf"? Why is it important that a character is deaf?

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

DocBubonic posted:

What reason do you have for using "Deaf"? Why is it important that a character is deaf?

There is no particular reason, and I can and will drop it if it proves too problematic. Or rather, I will move it to a major NPC - then I don't have to worry about the mechanics because NPCs aren't built like PCs. It's an interesting trait for a character to have in the setting I'm using (low sci-fi, e.g. rockets and wearable computing, no star trek stuff).

But while deafness in particular isn't vital for me to use, in general I absolutely do want to have characters with differences. It's about being explicitly inclusive. Same reason that the art won't be just a bunch of white dudes.

DocBubonic
Mar 11, 2003

Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur in illis

Jimbozig posted:

There is no particular reason, and I can and will drop it if it proves too problematic. Or rather, I will move it to a major NPC - then I don't have to worry about the mechanics because NPCs aren't built like PCs. It's an interesting trait for a character to have in the setting I'm using (low sci-fi, e.g. rockets and wearable computing, no star trek stuff).

But while deafness in particular isn't vital for me to use, in general I absolutely do want to have characters with differences. It's about being explicitly inclusive. Same reason that the art won't be just a bunch of white dudes.

I see what you are going for here, so I understand why you wanted a deaf character.

What I've noticed in games where a character has a difficulty in communicating with the other characters (be it deafness, mute, or lacking a common language) is that not being able to communicate with other characters is a frustrating experience all around. Of course if other characters can communicate with the character who has a communication issue, then this isn't really an issue.

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.
Oh yes, with wearable computing the character should have no real difficulty in communicating under normal circumstances. The wearable can display what people are saying out loud, and the deaf character can send messages to other peoples' wearables nearly as fast as talking.

So it's not going to be a constant problem or anything. Just something that might come up at the player's discretion.

Bucnasti
Aug 14, 2012

I'll Fetch My Sarcasm Robes
How about instead of "Flaw", you use "Challenge". It covers what your mechanical system describes and it doesn't label something negatively.

Being an insufferable jerk is a flaw, being color blind is a challenge.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Arivia posted:

I'm gonna tong you foo

oh my my

oh hell yes

Jimbozig
Sep 30, 2003

I like sharing and ice cream and animals.

Bucnasti posted:

How about instead of "Flaw", you use "Challenge". It covers what your mechanical system describes and it doesn't label something negatively.

Being an insufferable jerk is a flaw, being color blind is a challenge.

Yeah, that would be perfect. The problem is that I already use the word a whole bunch in the rules text. I'd rather not have to differentiate between challenges and Challenges, you know?

So far, I think Complication is the winner. But I'd still love to hear from a deaf person on the issue. Maybe I'll just email my ASL instructor and out myself as a gamer nerd. It'd be easier to explain the issue to someone familiar with RPGs, though.


As an aside, I wish I could play in an ASL roleplaying game. That would be the best way to learn ASL that I can imagine - I've already got a decent vocabulary, but the hard part for me now is describing things not present, putting them in relation to one another, etc. All the stuff you do in an RPG! ASL is missing a ton of grammatical forms we have in English and you get the same ideas across by the way you use the space in which you are signing, your facial expressions and more. An entirely different sort of grammar. It's a lot harder than learning German, I'll say that much. But it's also a lot of fun.

Jimbozig fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Jul 21, 2014

Dr. Doji Suave
Dec 31, 2004

Jimbozig posted:

Yeah, that would be perfect. The problem is that I already use the word a whole bunch in the rules text. I'd rather not have to differentiate between challenges and Challenges, you know?

So far, I think Complication is the winner. But I'd still love to hear from a deaf person on the issue. Maybe I'll just email my ASL instructor and out myself as a gamer nerd. It'd be easier to explain the issue to someone familiar with RPGs, though.


As an aside, I wish I could play in an ASL roleplaying game. That would be the best way to learn ASL that I can imagine - I've already got a decent vocabulary, but the hard part for me now is describing things not present, putting them in relation to one another, etc. All the stuff you do in an RPG! ASL is missing a ton of grammatical forms we have in English and you get the same ideas across by the way you use the space in which you are signing, your facial expressions and more. An entirely different sort of grammar. It's a lot harder than learning German, I'll say that much. But it's also a lot of fun.


Maybe use Hurdle?

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
I was really looking forward to Faith and Flame for Ars Magica but sadly it is the first 5e Tribunal book to be not very good. :(

Talkc
Aug 2, 2010

Mizuki! Mizuki! Mizuki!
***DEVASTATINGLY HANDSOME***
So I need some help here. I'm looking to see what good narrative driven mecha rpg's there are. And since that particular word soup is rather thick, ill say i also need any Mech RPG.

Theres a little conspiracy of maybe our group doing a second run of a really awesome mech campaign one of us ran, and we kinda need a new system. We ran in FATE Accelerated at the time, which was well, just a tad TOO rules light.

So any insight as to whats out there would be great.

EDIT: Sigh, search function i hate you. Didnt notice the other chat threads couldnt figure out where to post .....

Talkc fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Aug 1, 2014

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Talkc posted:

So I need some help here. I'm looking to see what good narrative driven mecha rpg's there are. And since that particular word soup is rather thick, ill say i also need any Mech RPG.

Theres a little conspiracy of maybe our group doing a second run of a really awesome mech campaign one of us ran, and we kinda need a new system. We ran in FATE Accelerated at the time, which was well, just a tad TOO rules light.

So any insight as to whats out there would be great.

EDIT: Sigh, search function i hate you. Didnt notice the other chat threads couldnt figure out where to post .....

I don't now of any specific mecha systems that'd work, but one thing to consider, you might go with dual systems. Run everything "outside the mechs" in FAE like you've been doing, and then "other system" for your giant robot punchmans battles.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
I recommend Mekton Zeta.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
Just bought Legendary, a Marvel deck building game. It looks cool, but the box organization is terrible. Does anyone who owns this game have any advice?

Edit: By the way, what's the point of the blank cards? The one with one black side. I'm using them as a divider for now.

Covok fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Aug 2, 2014

MikeCrotch
Nov 5, 2011

I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Error 404 posted:

I don't now of any specific mecha systems that'd work, but one thing to consider, you might go with dual systems. Run everything "outside the mechs" in FAE like you've been doing, and then "other system" for your giant robot punchmans battles.

I actually ran a game in exactly this fashion and jesus everloving gently caress was it hard. I think the main problem was that I was using FATE for the characters and D&D 4e for the mechs, which meant way more time was spent on the mech battles just because 4e is so much more complicated that FATE. Also, be careful how you implement the traits in FATE with robot punching battles - my players constantly used their pilot traits to dick each other in fights for a laugh (Hot-blooded, Glory Hog, Berserk Rage were all bad for this for example) and it made things drag out even more.

Was a cool game, don't get me wrong, just make sure you use systems of close complexity to avoid a nervous breakdown.

XTOwl
Aug 22, 2013

Talkc posted:

So I need some help here. I'm looking to see what good narrative driven mecha rpg's there are. And since that particular word soup is rather thick, ill say i also need any Mech RPG.

Theres a little conspiracy of maybe our group doing a second run of a really awesome mech campaign one of us ran, and we kinda need a new system. We ran in FATE Accelerated at the time, which was well, just a tad TOO rules light.

So any insight as to whats out there would be great.

Bliss Stage

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



Bliss Stage is aggressively creepy. Not quite Cthulhutech bad but it comes dangerously close. You'd need to adjust a lot of things to make it suitable to play in a normal group.

FactsAreUseless
Feb 16, 2011

I am now declaring this the August Trad Games Chat Thread. Ettin, please update the title to reflect this.

Sionak
Dec 20, 2005

Mind flay the gap.

FactsAreUseless posted:

I am now declaring this the August Trad Games Chat Thread. Ettin, please update the title to reflect this.

No wizardchat in this one, though. Elminster-free zone.

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade

FactsAreUseless posted:

I am now declaring this the August Trad Games Chat Thread. Ettin, please update the title to reflect this.
Will this be as successful as your attempts at getting that one thread goldmined?

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT
Is this the Elminster fanfic thread? :haw:

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.
I heard Elminster likes to have parties with Ed Greenwood by using a portal to cross worlds. (I swear this is a thing).

Error 404
Jul 17, 2009


MAGE CURES PLOT

Covok posted:

I heard Elminster likes to have parties with Ed Greenwood by using a portal to cross worlds. (I swear this is a thing).

post the Elminster-est fics you got (56k likes Dragonlance)

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LightWarden
Mar 18, 2007

Lander county's safe as heaven,
despite all the strife and boilin',
Tin Star,
Oh how she's an icon of the eastern west,
But now the time has come to end our song,
of the Tin Star, the Tin Star!

Covok posted:

I heard Elminster likes to have parties with Ed Greenwood by using a portal to cross worlds. (I swear this is a thing).

Elminster's Hideaway posted:

Located close to the center of the planet Colliar hangs a spherical globe made of a shiny metallic substance, reflecting all light striking its perfectly clean and smooth surface. This flawless sphere is the hideout of the famous mage, Elminster. The globe, nearly 250 feet in diameter, exhibits a deep and constant hum that can rattle one's teeth from a quarter mile away.

This globe slowly revolves around the central earth mass of the planet, which belongs to the Torilian dragon, Firebrand Flametongue. The globe slowly spins, causing a rainbow pattern of light to reflect from its glistening surface. Appearing to be solid, many believe the globe impenetrable, and Elminster prefers it that way. Snooping eyes are never a welcome sight.

When the globe is viewed from the outside, no doors or windows can be Seen. All known scrying and divination spells prove fruitless when used to peer into this object. This is why many mages believe it to be nothing more than an unusual solid astronomical body: because "they trust solely on their magical fabrications instead of seeing with the heart," as Elminster would say.

If a detect magic spell is cast on the globe, a crimson glow appears, rendering itself into intricate and beautiful writing. (This is definitely not written in Elminster's own hand. Lhaeo has been known to criticize Elminster on his horrid handwriting, calling it the scratching of hungry chickens.)

The writing, however beautiful, cannot be read, unless comprehend languages is cast at the same time. Once the writing becomes readable, it simply says, Notify next of kin before trespassing. If there's one thing that Elminster cannot stand, it is trespassers.

Elminster invented the spell Elminster's evasion, to instantly teleport himself into this sphere, should any of several conditions occur. These qualifications are his death, loss of mental or physical faculties, destruction of both upper limbs or complete bodily volume, or upon his uttering the word "Thaele."

Elminster also has one other way to enter the globe. This "entry grid" consists of several secret conditions. First, the prospective entrant must not utter a single sound while touching the globe. Since this entry mode assumes that none of the conditions have occurred, and that the Elminster is unable to speak the command word, only one hand can touch the globe (since the evasion spell works automatically when both upper limbs are destroyed). That hand must bear a ring with Elminster's name magically inscribed on the inside of the band. Other than that, the ring must have no other magical properties.

Elminster, knowing that no one is likely to wear a useless magical ring that serves no purpose but to hold a name, feels that this is a safe contingency. If all three of these conditions are met, the globe completely envelops the person in touch with it.

If anyone is able to get inside the globe, he finds Elminster's renowned and previously unseen "Safehold." Elminster designed this dimensional intersection over 300 years ago when the dragon Firebrand Flametongue officially retired to the planet Coliar. Elminster originally created the dimensional pocket as a place from which to police Firebrand's actions. After a century, Elminster decided that the dragon was changing and was indeed attempting to retire. He then converted the pocket universe into a dimensional intersection, with his safehold in the center.

The safehold is an octagonal pocket dimension to which Elminster teleports when the evasion spell is activated. This area has a bed that holds the body until the other spells associated with the evasion have taken their course. There are eight walls and a ceiling 20 feet up. There are doors on every other wall, with shelves on the walls between the doors.

These shelves hold thousands of potions and scrolls which are stored here for Elminster's and his friends' use for such time as they are needed. Under the shelves on the wall is a silver and light blue metallic object that hums and rattles constantly. A grating on the front of it blows a constant wind of cold air. The surface of the globe is in constant heat, and since the pocket dimension Elminster created is in direct contact with it, Safehold tends to get very hot. He installed this non-magical item to keep the room constantly cool. On the front above the grating, there is a metallic plate, missing the first half, which says "...aire."

Under the bed are several spell books that hold all the spells that Elminster has collected and created throughout the years. These books have deadly magical glyphs placed upon them that are deactivated with a magical word. Elminster wishes to protect these books because he has spend lifetimes collecting them. He specifically hid them in his safehold so that they would not be stolen. He does, however, have another copy of all the books in his castle. These are the originals.

Under a shelf, hidden by several layers of rags and bloodied clothes, lies a chest which is locked with a magnificently crafted padlock. On the lid, engraved in a gold plate, the following words sparkle like cut diamonds: "To my son, Lhaeo, with all my love and adoration. King Alemander IV." (For more information regarding this, please see FR3 Empires of the Sands.)

The four doors are mere openings in the walls, allowing the person inside the hideout to look directly out and see what is beyond the doors without being spotted themselves. The first door opens directly to a room inside Elminster's castle. This is the door he uses to reenter the Forgotten Realms, and comes in very hand when he doesn't wish to expend a spell in order to get back home. This also is the preferred method of removing himself from the Safehold because his bedroom is only steps away.

The second door opens to the island of Evermeet. Usually humans are not accepted within several hundred miles of the island, but Elminster is one of the standing exceptions to all rules. He has gained many friends on the island, and has fought many times side by side with the elves when humans and humanoids of all kinds attacked this land in order to plunder its secrets, magic, and wealth. The door opens to a beautiful square in the center of the Evermeet temple to Mystra.

The third door opens to a unique, strange location. Here the trees are tall and proud. The woodland animals are plentiful, and the air is breathtakingly crisp and pure. The sun beats down through the morning haze with a kindness not found on Toril. This is none other than Wyoming's Yellowstone National Park in the year 1894. This is Elminster's favorite off-Toril location to rest and relax. This is also one of the locations where he purchases those strange "German beers" that his friend, Gamalon, from the Rock of Bral, is always trying to buy form him.

The fourth door exposes the study and library of Ed Greenwood. This is the way in which the Elminster has pestered him for the last 15 years, and to this day, continues to hassle the poor man with his incredibly long stories and demands for "more German beer" and "can I use that hot water spout doohickey, again?"

None of the dimensional doors that lead from the safehold can be seen from the worlds where they lead to. In other words, the door that leads to Evermeet can be seen from the safehold, but once Elminster walks through the doors, the elves in Evermeet see him as though he just walked through a wall. They cannot see that he actually came from his dimensional intersection. This holds true for all locations, including the door to his personal castle.

He made sure this fact held true for all locations, because he didn't want people sneaking through his house and finding an open door to his safehold. He guards its location and its secrets jealously.

Occasionally Elminster has been known to invoke the evasion's word command to send himself here. In times like these, he usually needs to get away, collect his thoughts, and relieve himself of the frustrations of demanding people.

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