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Soricidus posted:There's nothing funny about it and there never was; the word "comedy" itself did not particularly imply jokes in those days. It's called a Comedy because according to the 14th century Italians there are only 2 categories of play; Tragedy or 'high writing' and Comedy or 'low writing', the Divine Comedy doesn't fit as a Tragedy so its a Comedy. StrifeHira posted:Most Laconic humor is pretty timeless, too. Laconic humor is great and the Spartans were pretty much the undisputed masters of it while they lived. Spartan culture even held up Laconic humor as a positive example for other Spartans to copy.
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Sep 22, 2014 02:49
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Thanks for LPing this game, Lt. Danger! It actually made me go ahead and play this game, something I now wish I had done sooner. I also appreciate the approach you've taken with this LP, so keep it up! Regarding romance in the ME series or in Video Games in general, I'm generally not a fan. However, the wish fulfillment aspect Lt. Danger mentioned in a previous update with Joker and EDI isn't just confined to video games. A good example is the shows Friends or Buffy. Many fans wanted Rachel and Ross to get together or Angel and Buffy and the writers toyed with and/or outright granted these requests. So mechanically these romance angles do achieve something that is important, they get people invested. This sounds really clinical, but this is a really important part of understanding why these are in games. Also, to understanding why they will likely continue to be in games. So, with that said, I'm going to say that I think Bioware actually did something really clever with the romance option in Mass Effect 3. I can't outright say what it is right now because we won't get to the clever part until very near the end of the game, and in this play through I can see it not happening at all as the effect can only be achieved if certain decisions are made. That's a cop-out on my part, but I'll say what it is at the proper time. There are a few other parts of the game where romance is used to get us, as players, involved with the story. Numerous NPC's are often talking about their husbands or wives being killed in the galactic war, and a few times, Sheperd is even the barer of this news to the diseased's significant other. It happens probably too often, which is probably just Bioware hammering the point into our thick monkey brains. It's already a cliche of war movies, but it's a cliche because it generally works at getting people emotionally involved. Also, regarding Aria: Personally I liked Aria in Mass Effect 2 and 3. There actually is more then one would think shown about her in that game, but it's all pretty subtle and in the broader context of the game she doesn't serve much of a purpose. In Mass Effect 3, without the Omega DLC, her role is pretty much the same. Do you plan on doing the Omega DLC, Lt. Danger? She becomes a lot more relevant to broader narrative in it.
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Sep 22, 2014 12:40
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I know the point of this LP isn't to be funny but I laughed a lot at "your character doesn't even have sex, but is blessed with the status of having had sex." I agree with the comments against wish fulfillment stuff, and it bothers me that Chris Avellone, my favourite game writer, is firmly in the pro-wish-fulfillment camp. Any time he talks about writing he says one important thing is to "ego-stroke" the player, and this does keep sneaking in and slightly spoiling his writing- such as the Lonesome Road DLC for Fallout New Vegas, which includes ending text such as (paraphrased) "and even the brutally tough monsters of this DLC left the player character alone out of respect for being such a badass".
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Sep 22, 2014 13:35
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While that is indeed hilariously stupid ego pandering there are actually games where "And then all the monsters left the player character alone because they knew if they hosed with the PC they were dead as poo poo" would in fact improve things. Sometimes the PC really is just a psychotic death machine that no-one in their right mind should want to be on the same continent as.
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Sep 22, 2014 14:21
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Lt. Danger posted:That's a good point - although ME1 does have quite a few jokes sprinkled around, they just don't stand out as much. Big. Stupid. Jellyfish.
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Sep 22, 2014 15:04
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2house2fly posted:it bothers me that Chris Avellone, my favourite game writer, is firmly in the pro-wish-fulfillment camp. Which is unusual because he's come out firmly against happy-ending romances (in both senses), and he also wrote the romances in NWN2. Even when tasked with writing a CRPG romance, he still tries to make it weird and awkward. quote:Big. Stupid. Jellyfish. Yeah, this morning I woke up and thought what I said was a little silly. There's also Leroy Jenkins and one of the VIs is a riff on the MS Office paperclip, I think. But I still think it's slightly less obvious than what you see in ME2 and ME3 in particular. After all, one of the first places a player will encounter in ME1's Citadel is the volus and elcor embassy, both of whom are played for laughs, but with considerably less heavy-handed direction from Bioware. (I can't believe I'm calling the elcor subtle.)
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Sep 22, 2014 19:19
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Lt. Danger posted:(I can't believe I'm calling the elcor subtle.) The elcor was a nod to HK-47 from KOTOR. Also proving that Bioware can't not run something into the ground.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:28
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I remember one odd joke... or, a half joke from ME1. If I recall correctly, it's after the Therum mission where you recruit Liara. Joker makes some flippant comment, and Liara complains. Shepard responds either (again, this is from memory): Paragon: "Don't worry about it, he's just lightening the tension." Renegade: "Joker's an rear end in a top hat, just ignore him." In either case, Liara responds "I see. It must be a human thing."  Well, except choosing the paragon option makes it just a neutral comment. So that's what I mean by a half joke. Maybe it was a bit of lazy writing, not giving Liara two different responses, but to me that's a prime example of Mass Effect's humor.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:31
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I imagine that sort of humor is very funny to someone who spends 100s of hours looking at dialog trees.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:36
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Montegoraon posted:Maybe it was a bit of lazy writing, not giving Liara two different responses Heck, often Shep even says the exact same line no matter what option you picked and the only difference is a little paragon or renegade bonus depending on if you picked the top-left or top-right option.
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Sep 22, 2014 21:59
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I'm the worst Renegade. Even trying to get renegade points I'm miserable at it. Kill the Rachni Queen! But... genocide is wrong!  Massacre the colonists on Feros! But... this gas grenade works so well!  Shoot Shiala! But... I pressed the wrong button, dammit! 
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Sep 23, 2014 14:29
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Arglebargle III posted:I'm the worst Renegade. Even trying to get renegade points I'm miserable at it. Kill the Rachni Queen! But... genocide is wrong! The problem I always have with pure Renegade runs are that half the choices are either "Now do something stupid and pointlessly short-sighted for red points!" or "Now be a total dickbag for red points!" Renegade Shepard is far too often depicted as less of a hardened man out to do whatever it takes to get the job done and more of a petulant child with anger management issues. At least when Paragon Shepard is an idiot you can usually write it off as a byproduct of hope, even when the hope is pretty blatantly not there. It's like, geez Shepard I know you don't give a poo poo about anyone other than you and yours but did you really need to be such a massive pulsating cock about it? Whenever I got Renegade Shepard I usually end up with a fairly even split of Renegade and Paragon from taking the most pragmatic options. (And occasionally pistol whipping a whiny bitch because nobody is perfect.) Neruz fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Sep 23, 2014 |
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Sep 23, 2014 14:42
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3 and 2 at least seem to have better ideas about what constitutes a renegade choice. More "I'm the captain of the ship and you will refer to me as such" and "Are you seriously threatening me with death while standing on an exposed gas main?"
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Sep 23, 2014 15:01
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I dunno, respecting the chain of command doesn't really scream "renegade" to me.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:13
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While it does get better as the series goes on 100% Red Shepard still does some really stupid things sometimes.2house2fly posted:I dunno, respecting the chain of command doesn't really scream "renegade" to me. It's less respecting the chain of command and more slapping someone down and telling them to shut up.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:14
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It's more that Paragon shepard doesn't care for it, he's friendly and will let his inferior officers refer to him by name rather than rank.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:25
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By surname, maybe. Paragon Shepard's not that friendly.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:30
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:By surname, maybe. Paragon Shepard's not that friendly. No-one in the galaxy but Shepard knows his/her first name and they're all really too embarrassed to ask.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:48
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Night10194 posted:No-one in the galaxy but Shepard knows his/her first name and they're all really too embarrassed to ask. Shepard does it deliberately, he/she knows nobody knows what his/her first name is and very carefully avoids saying it or writing it down or making any references to it at all to see how long it takes people to just give the gently caress up and check his Alliance Military Records. Only to find the name has been redacted from all of them 
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Sep 23, 2014 16:00
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Well that's what happens when the Alliance facial recognition database has to be rebuilt from scratch every year. I mean the first time it even lost all his personal information too.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:12
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Their biometrics are so bad, they got confused and arrested an entirely different woman after the Batarian relay disaster, if my inability to import Shep's face had anything to say about it.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:27
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Shepard didn't survive the suicide mission but they realize that Shepard is more valuable as a figurehead so there's just a rotating cast of soldiers who get upgraded to 'the shepard' when the previous one dies. "Hey you, over there! You're Commander Shepard now, now get in that jail cell. Also you're apparently having sex with a Turian now so here are some books to try and figure out how that works."
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Sep 23, 2014 16:32
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Commander Shepard: 00N7
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Sep 23, 2014 16:41
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Their biometrics are so bad, they got confused and arrested an entirely different woman after the Batarian relay disaster, if my inability to import Shep's face had anything to say about it. Now explain the Citadel DLC...
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Sep 23, 2014 17:39
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Out of curiosity I started googling n7, since it never occurred to me that it was anything except 'cool spaceman numberletter'. I found this: http://www.spoonbill.org/n+7/ and this: http://www.plcs.net/contents.shtml http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showthread.php?t=8987 There's a standard for a 7 digit integer that gets referred to as 'N7'. Which made me recall that you can do this in string formatting, too (same idea--you display as an integer value with 7 places--e.g. 0000001). So I sort of wonder. If each position is binary, that's 2^7 potential values which is 0-127, but it's up to 9999999 if it's just displaying whatever. Or maybe it's just referring to it being a logic controller variable that can be anything (though it's 16 bits, so I don't know why its named '7'--the most places it would use to display is 6). Meh. I guess it's not a programmer joke. Maybe it's the word thing.
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Sep 23, 2014 17:59
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That makes the "007" joke make more sense actually.
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Sep 23, 2014 18:36
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:Out of curiosity I started googling n7, since it never occurred to me that it was anything except 'cool spaceman numberletter'. N+7 is probably one of the better things le ouvroir de littérature potentielle inspired. TheCosmicMuffet posted:There's a staple for a 7 dimmer intensity that gets referred to as 'N7'. Which made me reception that you can do this in stroll formatting, too (same idiom--you disqualification as an intensity vane with 7 plaids--e.g. 0000001).
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Sep 23, 2014 22:29
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Well. I do sounding of woodpile.
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Sep 23, 2014 22:32
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 Part 14: Setting Further Reading Samara and Morinth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8_FRSCFdzk David Gaider on his GDC talk: http://dgaider.tumblr.com/post/57079259573/on-gamings-gay-agenda Muzyka and Hudson on Mass Effect 2: http://kotaku.com/5509870/bioware-explains-why-theres-no-homosexuality-in-mass-effect-2 Reagan and the AIDS crisis: http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/Reagan-s-AIDS-Legacy-Silence-equals-death-2751030.php StrifeHira and Arglebargle III posts on Morinth: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3652018&pagenumber=15&perpage=40#post433188165 I recommend watching the clip of Samara and Morinth from Mass Effect 2. I've got to admit, even though Morinth and the Ardat-Yakshi are hugely problematic, I still really like Samara's loyalty mission. The action, the dialogue, the voice-acting... I love it. And some of the lines are really important to the larger themes and ideas too ("You made your choice long ago." "What choice?!"). It's a shame the choice is rather forced, and of course the subtext is incredibly toxic and poisonous. Plus there are some great lines.
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Sep 26, 2014 21:40
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What does she mean what choice?! The choice to have a poison vagina and keep rubbing it against things! Also I don't get what you mean by problematic. (satire)
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Sep 26, 2014 21:42
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Lt. Danger posted:Plus there are some great lines.  I've never seen this before, that's great.And yeah, I like Samara's loyalty mission too. Mostly because it's one of the few times where Shepard gets to do something that isn't "shoot all the bad guys". It is also - and here's a shock - a mission that you as the player can fail beyond getting shot a bit too much. So many modern RPG's just seem utterly terrified of letting their players fail in any permanent manner. The only way to fail is death, and taking another shot is just a reload away. Here you have to, though gathering evidence, and interactions with Samara and patrons at the bar, gain an understanding of who Morinth is as a person, and play to her interests. Otherwise she walks. Granted it's a lessened a bit since even if you seriously gently caress up you can paragon/renegade your way out, but still it's nice to see a quest with actual failure conditions outside of death, so the player actually has to think a little instead of just clicking the top right option for maximum Paragon. The evil lesbian space vampire thing is pretty awful though, yeah. And their "husk" variant is just as awful. I mean come on: naked, pregnant cyborgs with LED nipples? Really Bioware? Okay. 
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Sep 26, 2014 22:15
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The really sad part about the whole Ardat-Yakshi thing is that there is totally a good story to be found in the concept of an Alien species that has one or more distinct biological 'morphs' that are innately hostile to other forms of life. But no, they had to do it with the Space Lesbians which results in the immediate connection between Ardat-Yakshi and homosexuality (regardless of how totally inaccurate that comparison is) and ruins everything. But then again most of the artistic and narrative decisions made surrounding the Asari ruin everything.
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Sep 27, 2014 08:46
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Neruz posted:But then again most of the artistic and narrative decisions made surrounding the Asari ruin everything. Sad thing is, game usually doesn't let me.
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Sep 27, 2014 08:59
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Part of it is how badly the game undersells the qualities that are supposed to make them aliens (like the writers insist) rather than just blue space lesbians. I mean they are centuries old natural born psychic space wizards that can reproduce with any other species, and the first race to discover interstellar travel. Which puts them on about rank 6 on Reapers' poo poo list. You see they spend too much time as strippers to be a real threat. 
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Sep 27, 2014 09:14
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The asari had two character traits, being the conceited race that found reaper tech first, and being walking personifications of sex. While a redneck hick asari from bumfuck nowhere would have been a much more fun perversion of that image in my opinion, Morinth was pretty much cornered into being a sexual deviant of some sort. Would being super into S&M or what have you have really been any better? In my opinion Morinth is a just a symptom of the shoddy design of the blue space babes rather than a huge issue in and of herself. e: oh yeah, they're good at biotics too. That could have been another better quality to pervert into danger.
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Sep 27, 2014 09:18
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The Asari are just a bad idea, they could have been a good idea if Bioware had gone with the idea that what you're seeing isn't actually what they look like because they project a psychic illusion that makes them appear as an attractive female of whatever intelligent species the viewer is, that would tie into their natural biotic ability and their diplomatic angle since they're now natural deceivers and masters of illusion. But nope, they're just blue space lesbians that occasionally are blue space lesbian vampires or blue space lesbian naked pregnant banshee horrors because apparently Bioware thought that was an improvement over blue space lesbians. Thanks Bioware.
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Sep 27, 2014 09:49
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So... yeah. Really can't say much else on the subject of Morinth. Horrid writing decisions from several perspectives, taking some of the worst aspects of the asari as a race and throwing another heaping load of unfortunate implications on top of it all. She's bad and I hate her as a Imagine if that potential was used over the bisexual/xenophile-amazon-space-commando-strippers that you're given so gratingly often. You could have fascinating dialogues with beings that literally cannot go a lifetime without a major galactic conflict breaking out, that have personally witnessed the rise and fall of nations and empires play out before them. Less Orions and sexuality, more Vulcans and dialogue, I guess is what I'm saying.
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Sep 27, 2014 10:18
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Lt. Danger posted:Part 14: Setting
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Sep 27, 2014 13:55
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I just love how this part is supposed to be a kind of scary, survival horror thing, but for everyone I talked to, they played the multiplayer first since it was essential to the war effort. We all saw the banshees, knew what the screams were and didn't react with fear or anticipation, more boredom
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Sep 27, 2014 16:01
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Xander77 posted:Are you under the impression that "fascist" and "revolutionary" are mutually exclusive? In the context of the narrow band in which it's mentioned, yeah, sure, why not. Your core counterpoint is valid, but some abbreviation of terms is forgivable IMO when one of the big obstacles of production is editing the narration of individual videos to end some time this fiscal quarter.
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Sep 27, 2014 16:17
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