|
I'll make the mentally ill vanguard website
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 15:00 |
|
|
Moridin920 posted:The fact of the matter is that if they can just keep making their money unfettered they won't ever stop because they feel bad about someone else suffering. lol why should they care? like, the only situation where i can imagine someone giving a gently caress about people at the expense of making more money would be if they were in that situation themselves. maybe you'll have the odd guy here or there that does the rags to riches thing and genuinely cares, but what happens when his shithead son or VP takes the company after he dies? unless it's right in your face people don't really care about suffering. even then, there's still a good chance they won't give a gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 16:42
|
|
|
Robo Reagan posted:lol why should they care? like, the only situation where i can imagine someone giving a gently caress about people at the expense of making more money would be if they were in that situation themselves. maybe you'll have the odd guy here or there that does the rags to riches thing and genuinely cares, but what happens when his shithead son or VP takes the company after he dies? They should care because money isn't the most important thing in this world, regardless of what capitalist propaganda says. If they can't feel empathy for others and reign in their criminal actions a little bit, then maybe they should be guillotined in the loving street. You're arguing my 'protests involving sitting peacefully and yelling a lot do nothing' point for me.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:They should care because money isn't the most important thing in this world, regardless of what capitalist propaganda says. actually money is the most important thing in the world, besides staying alive. the guillotine may be a bit drastic, i'd settle for rich people being slightly less rich if it means the money is used for making better conditions for the schubs not lucky enough to be born in to the aristocracy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 16:49
|
|
|
Robo Reagan posted:actually money is the most important thing in the world, besides staying alive. nah
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 17:01
|
|
|
If you protest you're literally inviting public ridicule, scorn and police violence on yourself & u are an idiot if you do so. edit: also alienating potential employers
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 17:41
|
|
|
The real problem is lots of modern protest aren't peaceful. Lots of protest, like the occupy movement looked more like rioting. Also since most protesters are bussed in or paid, no one takes them seriously.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
Bathtub Cheese posted:If you protest you're literally inviting public ridicule, scorn and police violence on yourself & u are an idiot if you do so. So what just sit quietly and be a submissive citizen? dontcareaboutname posted:The real problem is lots of modern protest aren't peaceful. Lots of protest, like the occupy movement looked more like rioting. Also since most protesters are bussed in or paid, no one takes them seriously. The real problem is there is no organisation so it turns into petty rioting and looting when it should be a march to take all these fucks running the country into the ground and running the world ragged in the pursuit of a few points in their portfolio and guillotine them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 17:47
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:So what just sit quietly and be a submissive citizen? You could join a union or a political party. Give your time to social organisation like the ACLU/EFF or whatever cause you prefer. Though all that sounds like it is a lot more work than to take a day off from classes and go smoke some weed in the park with a protest sign.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 18:06
|
|
|
NihilismNow posted:You could join a union or a political party. Give your time to social organisation like the ACLU/EFF or whatever cause you prefer. lots of states have legal hours of the day where you can drink in public parks just do that and cuss at children.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:So what just sit quietly and be a submissive citizen? i recommend sending eloquent missives to your local congresscritter, an efficacious course of action if there ever was one
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 18:23
|
|
|
Protests only do something when an audience with (a) the power to change things is sympathetic both to (b) the cause and (c) the protesters. Not to put too fine a point on it, but (b) is far and away the least important. Things can be about ideas, but they're about almost everything else first. One thing OWS did really, really badly was appoint -- or allow self-appointment -- of spokespeople who went out of their way to be confrontational, alienating, inauthentic, or boring. As a practical adult, I suspect that I'm on the wrong side of any issue if I'm on the same side as someone in a Guy Fawkes mask. The Tea Party, however valtrex they are, does a pretty good job both appointing official spokespeople and grooming unofficial ones. Sarah Palin or Michele Bachmann might be crackerjacks, but all they had to do to bend the ear of white middle-American housewives was look, act, and talk like white, middle-American housewives. I mean, they get shut down once people figure out they're crazy, but at least they get a hearing. Last, a protest -- like any kind of persuasive political rhetoric -- needs to be able to tell people to do something really, really simple. Vote for Sarah Palin, shoot a cop, buy grass-fed beef, or stay in Tahrir Square until the president steps down. Striking unions, for instance, have lists of tangible, specific demands that whomever they're striking against (at least allegedly) has the power to immediately grant. OWS kinda sucked the donkey on that one, too. EDIT So if you want an effective protest, figure out exactly what you want. Then appoint capable, familiar spokespeople who can persuasively explain why you should have it to people who have the power to give it to you. Brainworm fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jul 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 18:25
|
|
|
NihilismNow posted:You could join a union or a political party. Give your time to social organisation like the ACLU/EFF or whatever cause you prefer. I'm actually in the process of starting a union where I live but thanks bro. Sometimes you have to shake things up and actually get physical to achieve your ends. That's all. I'm not saying be super violent or anything, I'm saying even nonviolent protest as enacted by Indians fighting the British and black people fighting for rights in the USA has some element of civil disobedience. They chained themselves up in restaurants and delis black people aren't allowed to be, and when the cops came to abuse them and arrest them they took it all and asked for more. They didn't attack back, they just continued to demand what they wanted and got in the loving way as much as possible. OWS sat around holding strategy meetings while across the street the people they were supposed to be occupying continued their business of loving everyone over in the pursuit of profit. If you just ask them nicely to stop, they'll laugh, hold a 'homeless and poor party' in their high rise, and the status quo will continue. Brainworm posted:Last, a protest -- like any kind of persuasive political rhetoric -- needs to be able to tell people to do something really, really simple. Vote for Sarah Palin, shoot a cop, buy grass-fed beef, or stay in Tahrir Square until the president steps down. Striking unions, for instance, have lists of tangible, specific demands that whomever they're striking against (at least allegedly) has the power to immediately grant. OWS kinda sucked the donkey on that one, too. That too. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jul 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 18:28
|
|
|
The sardonic bitterness of my last few posts aside, the 'baggers represented an extreme fringe of existing, well-represented constituency, had corporate/party backing. they're more like a nuttier retread of the gingrich contract with america bullshit than an inverse of OWS. image management, and calculated, respectful demands, etc. are all nice when you have a degree of sympathetic representation in the current power structure. the real-deal left elements in Occupy really did not, except for the unions that let OWS use their phone banks. while the OWS approach proved ineffective, pretty much the entire US is reflexively hostile to left politics, especially the wealthy interests that run the show, control the media, etc. edit: if the media really wanted to it could've spoken to eloquent, respectable-looking white people instead of weird hippies during OWS, since that seems to be the sine qua non of political action to the retards in this thread. even the oh-so-liberal the Daily Show went out of its way to find the most grating hipsters to interview, for example. Bathtub Cheese fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 22, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 18:33
|
|
|
I'll update the mentally ill wiki
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 18:54
|
|
|
Bathtub Cheese posted:pretty much the entire US is reflexively hostile to left politics, especially the wealthy interests that run the show, control the media, etc. All good reasons why peacefully asking to be treated better doesn't work.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
We don't like leftist because they are the same as rich republicans, except they tell us how we should let them take our money.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 19:11
|
|
|
euromaidan did pretty well for itself, also the anti-communist uprisings in the early nineties that freed eastern europe
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 19:11
|
|
|
yeah, i mean sure there's idealistic bullshit like love and happiness but when it comes down to it politicians are hired on the premise that they'll either make their voters money, or at the very least keep them from losing any. only thing more important than money is the assurance of continued survival.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 19:16
|
|
|
Neo didn't take down The Matrix by peacefully protesting now did he?
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 19:25
|
|
|
i think a mod should protest this thread and Shut It Down
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 19:34
|
|
|
it does when they turn into violent protests as the french, russian, and chinese revolutions attest, OP!
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 19:37
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:euromaidan did pretty well for itself Instead of some corrupt guy who had been in government before and been chucked out before, they got an incredibly corrupt guy (as in stolen from the national budget, and sold off state property to his friends for a pittance type corrupt), that was saved from being kicked out of office by Viktor Yushchenko firing the country's chief prosecutor. They also got a civil war. Nice revolution, guys.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 19:50
|
|
|
Robo Reagan posted:yeah, i mean sure there's idealistic bullshit like love and happiness but when it comes down to it politicians are hired on the premise that they'll either make their voters money, or at the very least keep them from losing any. only thing more important than money is the assurance of continued survival. Just because a bunch of capitalists are convinced money is god doesn't mean it is true. Just off the top of my head, having a stable source of income is more important than the money itself (because money is transitory), as is living a life that you like to live. I've had to grind out a huge amount of hours a week just to get money so I could keep living and grinding out more money to perpetuate my existing and that was the most loving miserable time of my life I tell you what.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 19:57
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:I've had to grind out a huge amount of hours a week just to get money so I could keep living and grinding out more money to perpetuate my existing and that was the most loving miserable time of my life I tell you what. Yup this blows.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 23:44
|
|
|
I was rubbing my eyes and I thought this thread was titled "Do proteins ever accomplish anything" and I was like what are you an idiot
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2014 23:52
|
|
|
catpowerd posted:Hey, does anyone remember when a bunch of OWS goons tried to form their own political party? I want to say it happened last year some time? There was a thread about it and if memory serves me correctly the whole thing was over in about a week because all the posters were bickering about how the parties logo and t-shirts should look. Did this happen or am I crazy? ah yes, Old GBS's Bull Moose Party 2. Good intentions but goon execution. Best bet for political change IMO has to be ultra local. You can't really create a new party from scratch. Prob can't make a new party in this environment at all. IIRC they made a IRC channel that went instantaneously berserk with every form of deranged shitposting that was banned in the GBS of the time. OP was doomed from the second they posted the thread really. paranoid randroid posted:im more prepared to believe the american government is actually just really loving huge and has a ton of inertia and is run by people who are terrified of any change whatsoever than i am prepared to believe that a bunch of sullen office dipshits and liberty university graduates are capable of employing machiavellian social controls yes but really good Machiavelli poo poo is designed to be undetectable. One of the major points M made was that image is reality. He was real big on going to church and being a great guy, and if you could swing a situation in such a way that you look great and get what you want then you did it right. I guess what your post is is the second best option. What i'm trying to say is that intention or whatever is not really relavent. If people are living as if theyre subject to social controls then they are subject to controls, even if it's not real. actually I don't know how to say what i'm trying to say this is a dumb gay post i'm gay
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2014 01:27
|
|
|
SniperWoreConverse posted:yes but really good Machiavelli poo poo is designed to be undetectable. One of the major points M made was that image is reality. He was real big on going to church and being a great guy, and if you could swing a situation in such a way that you look great and get what you want then you did it right. I guess what your post is is the second best option. id argue that the us govt is accidentally on purpose engineered to be really terrible at subtlety. yeah we can stuff our police departments full of military gear and pain rays, or start a special task force that pays people to machine gun their buddies, but ttry anything more low-key than that and it falls apart. the closest we got was COINTELPRO and even that was more of an open secret than super hush-hush operations. like remember right after 9/11 when everyone was freaking out trying to determine what the gently caress just happened exactly, and it came to light that the CIA and NSA and FBI acted more or less all the time like catty high school popular girls who refused to talk to that bitch becky over at quantico because she totally snubbed me after collaring Abdul al-Brosef.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2014 01:46
|
|
|
Nah the occupy takedowns were nationally coordinated to some extent. There's no smoke-filled room/man behind the curtain poo poo obviously. Incompetence doesn't preclude a motive. A lot of people will still call you a nut if you mention COINTELPRO. A phenomenon like that is the cheapest and easiest form of social control there is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2014 02:15
|
|
|
yeah thats the flip side of it. im not sure you need wide reaching conspiracies to accomplish anythign when americans are like super feckless all on their own e. unless thats the result of a wide reaching conspiracy??? oh god fukc im kyooning im kyoonnnnnigng=a94w` paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Jul 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2014 02:17
|
|
|
Gazpacho posted:Lol read your local ordinances idiot "hey guys can we ave a permit to protest the people paying you? "lolnope" "Well, shucks."
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2014 02:25
|
|
|
this thread has changed my mind, i now realize that peaceful protest will not accomplish anything and societal change can only come from violent opposition so tomorrow i'm gonna bomb an abortion clinic
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2014 05:36
|
|
|
I would love to have been alive during the John Lennon Stay-in-Bed Protest. I cannot imagine the rage that must have been generated by hippie-haters, I like to think that there was quite a bit of rage-spittle and "I TOLD YOU IT WOULD COME TO THIS AGNES/MARTHA/MARY!"'s
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2014 21:29
|
|
|
They used to but now they're just feel good cargo culting because of the insane power-violence imbalance between protesters and the state -a point someone else probably made already
|
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2014 21:51
|
|
- hi
|
the Russian revolution worked because the military was on the side of the revolutionaries, so that's probably what is needed for protests to be effectively violent. maybe at some point the price for guard labor will fall so low that discontent makes such a thing is possible. the cultural and ideological structures within the current guard labor establishment are super reactionary at the moment, though these things can change rapidly
Ocean Book fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jul 24, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 24, 2014 21:54
|
|
|
Um, so would anyone like a menu?
|
|
#
?
Jul 25, 2014 02:21
|
|
|
Ocean Book posted:the Russian revolution worked because the military was on the side of the revolutionaries, so that's probably what is needed for protests to be effectively violent. maybe at some point the price for guard labor will fall so low that discontent makes such a thing is possible. the cultural and ideological structures within the current guard labor establishment are super reactionary at the moment, though these things can change rapidly
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2014 08:12
|
|
|
Pomp posted:"hey guys can we ave a permit to protest the people paying you?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2014 09:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 15:00 |
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Just off the top of my head, having a stable source of income is more important than the money itself (because money is transitory), as is living a life that you like to live. Of course having money is a gigantic leg up in the job market, the only way to get a stable source of income or live the lives most people want to live (b/c most peoples' ideal life involves self-sufficiency and doing actualizing work); have fun getting hired if you're truly poor and people can tell by looking at you and reading your resume
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2014 09:04
|
|