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Welp, I suppose I can give this a go.
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Jul 21, 2014 03:18
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Oh hey guys, just noticed I got my role PM, surely nothing important has happened in the thread as of yet. ... Oh you, CPig.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:26
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merk posted:Yeah, I'm voting Juanito until he or I is removed from the game. See you in a few days. This doesn't seem to be an argument in good faith. I don't care for it. Poque posted:I don't know if that's scummy. stupid, sure, but not necessarily scummy This seems like a more accurate assessment of Juanito's partnerclaiming.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:31
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I think that if merk isn't willing to play in good faith, that he is a detriment to this game. I don't think town would behave in such a fashion, especially not someone as experienced as merk. Even his argumentation on Juanito seems poorly formed, focused on a single point, and it seems unclear whether or not merk really thinks Juanito is scum. ##vote merk
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Jul 21, 2014 21:10
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Juanito posted:What did I lose from it? Other than fake outrage from merk and Pander? Nobody else really cares. I don't know, I'm getting a genuine vibe from Pander here. I think that's he's just easily outraged by things.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:38
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mr.capps posted:I dunno guys merk doesn't seem scum to me. But what if he actually was scum?
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Jul 22, 2014 03:31
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Alright, time for some re-reads and initial thoughts. First off, everyone has been pretty inactive in general. Maybe this much content to dig into without a proper joke phase has people gun shy? Like, seriously, capps should be posting a ton more by now. If there's nothing worth commenting on in your post history, you get skipped. Bigup DJ is clearly joking with his whole anger deal, but hasn't popped in since then. Maybe he's been busy IRL? Still, that's a long period to be away for. CPig has me suspicious. Before he vigs Peta, he puts a vote on him because of a joke post and a votefinder mix up. His vote then later settles onto his mason partner, which seems like an odd choice to me. The most significant Grandicap has done is call two people voting for a dude a bandwagon, which seems a misunderstanding of things. JakeP seems to be pretty on the ball. I don't agree with what he says about Juanito, but that could be due to a lack of objectivity born of stubborn obstinacy. I'm getting some super town vibes from Poque. He's like the only guy to really be focused on scum hunting, and as such, I'll be taking an especially heavy look at Pander after this. I don't like that Poison Mushroom is trying to distance from both Juanito and merk in a clear, unambiguous fashion. I do like that Poison Mushroom is at least trying stuff. Would not vote tonight. Well, that's it for the moderately interesting people so far. Next post, I'll write up on merk, Juanito, and Pander. If you're not mentioned in either of these posts, maybe you should post more? (This includes me.)
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Jul 23, 2014 23:24
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I feel like merk's vote on Juanito is significant:merk posted:Why claim this when the op says it's probably not wise to claim it? ##vote Juanito Sure, he goes into further detail as he goes along, but at the point of the vote, he feels that Juanito revealing his masonry partner is not just a foolish move, but a scummy one. merk uses this moment to establish the rhetorical battle lines that have thus far dominated the game. While certainly Juanito, and most of the rest of us, have met him on his pre-decided ground, it is still merk who has decided them, and merk who has continued to cling them. merk posted:Yeah, I'm voting Juanito until he or I is removed from the game. See you in a few days. merk posted:I'm pretty much locked into this Juanito thing. I'd like for us to take care of it today rather than let it fester. I will vote Juanito tomorrow if we're both alive. Here we see merk standing by his position both earlier and later, digging in and entrenching the idea that only one of him or Juanito is scum, and forcing us to address the fact before we can do anything. I believe that this intractable position has done much to reduce interest in the game, by pushing other matters to the sidelines. Notice how much time we devote to discussing the validity of revealing one's masonry partner compared to the validity of CPig's dayvig. This level of rhetorical command is not a solid grounding for a game, it is a bad faith argument and startling narcissistic. merk has demanded that the game be entirely about him and his half-formed, mangled case. I refuse to believe that merk is town. Alright, I'll save Juanito and Pander for the next post.
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Jul 23, 2014 23:30
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Juanito's rhetorical battle is almost a complete opposite, stylistically, from merk's. But that just means that it is subtle, more insidious, and more likely to be effective at changing hearts and minds. He seeks to underplay his own importance, as well as slowly erode the importance of masonry secrecy. The key difference to me, though, is that Juanito's assertions very well could be done sincerely as town. Juanito seems to genuinely believe that the fact he is mason partners with CPig is insignificant, and that as vanilla town, he has relatively little importance to town. merk's more aggressive rhetoric drags Juanito back again and again, and in responding to that rhetoric, everyone involved looks worse. My main problem with Pander is that he has chosen to align himself with the toxic rhetoric proposed by merk. He pushes hard again Juanito's own rhetoric, but in doing so entrenches the line that merk wishes to impose on the game. But on the other hand, he later pulls off. This, though, could be a deliberate distancing effort. I don't propose a chain lynch, but I think that if merk is scum, Pander is worthy of further examination. So, right now, I stand by merk being the most likely scum in this thread. Vote merk today and save the game.
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Jul 24, 2014 00:07
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Bigup DJ posted:yeah I had some errands to run which took up most of yesterday, I'm here for the deadline and will read people over. Meinberg posted:Vote merk today and save the game. There you go, saved you some time.
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Jul 24, 2014 00:11
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I don't really feel comfortable voting Bigup DJ. He went from an early joke phase persona to something more serious. I don't like him thinking so many people are town, but that could be put on poor play rather than scummy play.
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Jul 24, 2014 02:10
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Juanito posted:merk/Juanito will continue on day 2. Yeah, that's my problem. Bigup may seem like an escape from the rhetorical trap that merk has laid out, but the truth is, it's just a distraction or delay. We'll have to confront merk's rhetorical position again tomorrow if he is not removed today. And if we accede to his demands and eliminate Juanito, he'll just continue to manipulate the flow of the conversation to suit his ends.
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Jul 24, 2014 02:13
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mr.capps posted:hi guys, i like the m knight shyamlan movie the VILLAGE(r) Oh, I see what you're doing.
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Jul 24, 2014 02:18
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This is the result of merk's toxic rhetoric, infusing us with rage and hatred. Either that or Mafia players are terrible people. Take your pick.
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Jul 24, 2014 02:23
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DGK2000 posted:Why can't it be both? Valid point
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Jul 24, 2014 02:24
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merk posted:Hi Hi 50 minutes or so until deadline
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Jul 24, 2014 03:09
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I'm not going to vote for Bigup DJ. I see him to be more likely to be bad town than scum.
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Jul 24, 2014 03:47
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I do feel fairly chagrined at Bigup DJ's flip. I wanted to believe that he was just being silly and/or dumb, but no, he is not. He's just scum.
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Jul 24, 2014 04:35
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CapitalistPig posted:I feel 0% chagrined because he was scum My chagrin is internally focused, at my inability to see the signs. Whatever, tomorrow will be a brand new day.
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Jul 24, 2014 05:52
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That is a... confusing night kill.
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Jul 25, 2014 00:42
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The first reason for the scum to kill merk, that I can think of, is so that Juanito and myself become targets for the town to go after. I can't spend much time in the thread tonight, I have to finish a writing assignment. But tomorrow, I'll see what I can come up with.
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Jul 25, 2014 01:26
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I'm here, and also didn't realize tonight was deadline. Do you guys voting for Grandi think that BigUp was trying to ineffectively bus him?
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Jul 27, 2014 01:22
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These are fair points. In lieu of further analysis, I'll go ahead and ##vote Grandicap. Also because weekend deadlines suck.
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Jul 27, 2014 01:26
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I was Bigup's mason partner, and he seemed to be fairly sincere about scumhunting in the doc. Unfortunately, he deleted the doc shortly after his flip, so I haven't been able to reveal the details within. I recall him talking about his initial few posts to be a faked anger in order to target Poison Mushroom in specific, and observe the reactions. I'm guessing that he was attempting to make Poison Mushroom say some things that we would interpret as scummy. He also mentions going after Grandi, being sure merk is town, and being uncertain about Juanito, but I can't recall anything else.
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Jul 27, 2014 02:11
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I really should have been less lazy and made the doc myself. But it's too late to cry about that now.
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Jul 27, 2014 02:13
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Also, it's not like we said a whole lot anyway.
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Jul 27, 2014 02:14
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JakeP posted:tell google you are a private investigator (show them your role PM for verification) and subpoena them to undo the edits Okay, I've done this and now have a copy of the document. It turns out that I misremembered his thoughts in regard to Juanito, apparently he thought that Juanito was "innocuous." Also, I asked him if he was scum and he said yes, which is something that I'd assumed that scum wouldn't do. I guess mr. capps' question is more important than I thought.
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Jul 27, 2014 02:19
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It turns out that google docs saves deleted documents for a time, and I was able to recover a copy by clicking a box. The rest of that post is 100% sincere. To provide some further context, his admittance to scumhood was done in a distinctly sarcastic fashion, and he immediately went back to his ineffectual scumhunting.
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Jul 27, 2014 02:22
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Pander posted:And through it all you thought "I"d rather no-lynch than lose my ineffectual partner" Well, yes. I never claimed to be good at Mafia.
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Jul 27, 2014 02:26
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If Grandicap is town, I'm going to be so chagrined, you wouldn't even believe it.
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Jul 27, 2014 02:32
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Pander posted:So now that you have the doc, does the rest of your stuff line up? He just asked me to look at grandicap's history. This happened about the same time as when he began making the push in thread about him. I don't think Poque is a good scum candidate, his activity yesterday felt pretty sincere to me, and it's not like anyone has been particularly active today. Hal, on the other hand, remains suspicious to me. I think Grandi is probably the better lynch target for today, though.
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Jul 27, 2014 03:16
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Okay cool, no need for chagrin tonight. Not really any pride either, but regardless.... This does make Pander look a bit more suspicious. On the other hand, Dominion rocks hard. Dominions is cool too, but not for everyone.
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Jul 27, 2014 04:06
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mr.capps posted:poo poo guys i just got a leak from the scum doc let me post it Way to scumslip scummy scumguy. JakeP posted:btw my flavor name is Rusty Cohle. If that doesnt confirm me town i dont know what does Hey, me and BigupDJ were both Hardy Brothers, and yet he ended up being scum. This is a sad, sad world when a Hardy boy would betray another. We cannot trust anyone.
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Jul 27, 2014 04:16
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Didn't CPig just scum claim? Why aren't we voting for him?
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Jul 28, 2014 02:54
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CapitalistPig posted:Boy you sure are perceptive and have a great understanding of how I operate. Thanks for the compliment!
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Jul 28, 2014 02:59
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Man, jokes sure are funny. But onto more serious matters: Hal.Hal Incandenza posted:Seen it before. Play enough games and you've seen everything. Don't fall into the trap of clearing people because of your assumptions about the setup. Hal Incandenza posted:Stop letting setup spec control you! Scum vig isn't some wacky thing that could never happen. So, first we see Hal arguing with PM over whether or not CPig should be excluded from scumhunting on account of CPig's dayvig. While I agree that speculation based on setup can lead one down tortuous routes and isn't "real mafia" by the opinion of most, I think that Hal's tone here is all wrong. Hal Incandenza posted:No, we can still talk about who we think is scum. This could be your last chance to get your thoughts out before you die! Hal said this during N1, and while it appears at first glance to be largely innocuous, I think it's also possible that he was probing to see who had accurate opinions in order to assign a target for the scumkill. Hal Incandenza posted:Juanito, why would you do that you big jerk Hal Incandenza posted:We should all follow merk's last wishes. Hal Incandenza posted:Are you saying that the scum thought that I would think that Juanito would think the he could fool me so they killed merk to trick me into voting for Juanito? Hmmmmmmm Hal Incandenza posted:Orrrrrr... did Juanito think that I would think that the scum would think that I would think that Juanito would think that I would think that the scum killed merk to frame Juanito? drat. Hal Incandenza posted:Oh man... how is Juanito getting away. And here we see what I think is most damning. The scum likely killed merk in order to get rid of a strong town, and to throw doubt on Juanito. And here Hal comes, right after the start of the day, to buy into that narrative that the scum has manufactured. But perhaps he isn't buying into it. Perhaps Hal is the person that is selling it? And then, in the end, Hal refuses to vote for Grandi, after failing to direct the vote outwards. ##vote Hal
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Jul 28, 2014 03:22
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Hal Incandenza posted:There is a big difference between refusing to vote someone and your vote not being needed. I think the acuity of my sense of humor has been well established at this point.
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Jul 28, 2014 03:52
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I have something very important to claim. Are you guys ready for it? I don't think you're ready. I'm Vanilla Town. Also, I've just woke up, so nice try trying to lynch me while I was gone! Now watch as I effectively defend myself somehow!
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Jul 29, 2014 18:19
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Juanito posted:Who do you think the final scum is, Meinberg? I think it's a three person scum and the last scum is the guy who I have my vote on: Hal. As for Poque's arguments, I don't think there's anything entirely wrong with them. He's just inferring different things that I tried to imply, which is probably my bad. My defense of Bigup DJ was probably due to how quickly I feel into the assumption that merk was scum, along with Bigup DJ being in my mason doc to talk about things. Even though we didn't talk about much, the presence of that doc had a profound psychological impact. The fact that I was wrong about both merk and Bigup DJ does not make me scum. That comment about CPig was what we in the business call a joke. It then extended out quite nicely into a whole bit. I found it entertaining, but I can see why you wouldn't feel likewise. And as for my thoughts on the scum's reason for the nightkilling of merk, that's born largely from humility, and from the fact that Juanito was indeed at the forefront of merk's negative attention.
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Jul 29, 2014 18:30
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Hal Incandenza posted:Good lord you buffoons I'm the cop Who have you copped, then?
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Jul 29, 2014 19:06
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